GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: dubber36 on 17 February 2014, 08:28
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Volkswagen Drive magazine have a feature comparing the two cars in the March edition that dropped through my door this morning.
As with many "comparison" tests, they have pitted a manual GTI PP against a DSG GTD with 19" wheels. :rolleyes: Still a good read tho', and should be in the shops on Wednesday.
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Just sat and read this myself.
All stuff most of us have considered at some point.
Neil asked for readers experiences and it will be interesting to see what people think on here.
My personal view was the GTI was only purchased by me because of the VAQ diff with a thought on future modifications and how previous remapped cars have struggled with understeer and torque steer at times, not to mention wheel spin.
I'd have happily kept my much loved mk6 GTI otherwise as it was all paid for and a fabulous all rounder with the spec it had.
Everyone on here will have a different reason for their purchase and different financial reasons.
I'm old fashioned and pay for my car with hard cash as this also puts me in the position that I can modify my car without having to read the small print on the insurance (company car schemes for example), PCP, GAP, Lease or whatever. I'm probably very much in the minority.
So the GTI was the only one with the option of the VAQ diff.
My question now is whether the GTI is going to become a much slower seller as the GTD will very much be bought with the head, is just as good to drive and will have excellent resale value - now thrown into the mix the fact that the R is not that much more expensive than the GTI considering the difference in power, all wheel drive and various other aspects that a performance car driver will look at.
So, VW throw a lot of money at the development of the VAQ diff then release an R with 300PS to the baying public who generally look at monthly payments rather than purchase price at not a huge difference in £££££
So, if I were in the same position now as i was 12 months ago what would I do?
Cupra? Very possibly
R? Hmmmm, maybe
GTI? Less likely
GTD? with sound pack option its quite a credible alternative assuming I could be arsed to swap from my much loved mk6 GTI, most of the benefits of the mk7 GTI sans PP VAQ diff...
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Just sat and read this myself.
All stuff most of us have considered at some point.
Neil asked for readers experiences and it will be interesting to see what people think on here.
My personal view was the GTI was only purchased by me because of the VAQ diff with a thought on future modifications and how previous remapped cars have struggled with understeer and torque steer at times, not to mention wheel spin.
I'd have happily kept my much loved mk6 GTI otherwise as it was all paid for and a fabulous all rounder with the spec it had.
Everyone on here will have a different reason for their purchase and different financial reasons.
I'm old fashioned and pay for my car with hard cash as this also puts me in the position that I can modify my car without having to read the small print on the insurance (company car schemes for example), PCP, GAP, Lease or whatever. I'm probably very much in the minority.
So the GTI was the only one with the option of the VAQ diff.
My question now is whether the GTI is going to become a much slower seller as the GTD will very much be bought with the head, is just as good to drive and will have excellent resale value - now thrown into the mix the fact that the R is not that much more expensive than the GTI considering the difference in power, all wheel drive and various other aspects that a performance car driver will look at.
So, VW throw a lot of money at the development of the VAQ diff then release an R with 300PS to the baying public who generally look at monthly payments rather than purchase price at not a huge difference in £££££
So, if I were in the same position now as i was 12 months ago what would I do?
Cupra? Very possibly
R? Hmmmm, maybe
GTI? Less likely
GTD? with sound pack option its quite a credible alternative assuming I could be arsed to swap from my much loved mk6 GTI, most of the benefits of the mk7 GTI sans PP VAQ diff...
An excellent view and well put, I think your right the Gti will almost become a specialist choice, of course we all know it won't sell as well as the Gtd, financial uncertainty will in most cases lead decisions by the head not heart.
I always wanted a Gti as it's the iconic car, and had a mk2 in 86, it's taken me in business best part of 25 years to establish a home where I no longer need aspire for more. Having had some humble cars in that time so now I can move some cash onto cars and 'enjoy' the fuel it uses over the diesel and not be worried by it. Having no kids is also helpful in that respect! Maybe the first I've had where the heart has ruled the head, feels strange as I'm in uncharted territory.
I'm wondering if it's the same decision or motivation as to why someone has a 335i verses the same car with the excellent 320d engine.
I'm so pleased I had it over the Gtd nothing against then they are excellent cars truly are, but we all make decisions for different criteria as our lives are thankfully diverse.
Thanks
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An excellent view and well put, I think your right the Gti will almost become a specialist choice
Don't kid yourself, the Golf is just a mainstream hatchback and the GTI is just a fancy version of that. I love hot hatches as all round everyday cars (I've had two Golfs a Mk2 16v and a Mk5 Ed 30, Pug 306 GTI6)... but they're (very good) mass produced hot hatches not specialist cars...
I'm wondering if it's the same decision or motivation as to why someone has a 335i verses the same car with the excellent 320d engine.
There is no comparison in terms of performance... the comparison here would be either 320i v 320d or 335i v 335d
I'm so pleased I had it over the Gtd nothing against then they are excellent cars truly are, but we all make decisions for different criteria as our lives are thankfully diverse.
Exactly, my GTD is a company car a (very nice) beater for the 911 Cab that now lives in the garage waiting for dry days in the summer (assuming they ever arrive)... therefore the GTI was never an option as the BIK tax was significantly more.
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An excellent view and well put, I think your right the Gti will almost become a specialist choice
Don't kid yourself, the Golf is just a mainstream hatchback and the GTI is just a fancy version of that. I love hot hatches as all round everyday cars (I've had two Golfs a Mk2 16v and a Mk5 Ed 30, Pug 306 GTI6)... but they're (very good) mass produced hot hatches not specialist cars...
I'm wondering if it's the same decision or motivation as to why someone has a 335i verses the same car with the excellent 320d engine.
There is no comparison in terms of performance... the comparison here would be either 320i v 320d or 335i v 335d
I'm so pleased I had it over the Gtd nothing against then they are excellent cars truly are, but we all make decisions for different criteria as our lives are thankfully diverse.
Exactly, my GTD is a company car a (very nice) beater for the 911 Cab that now lives in the garage waiting for dry days in the summer (assuming they ever arrive)... therefore the GTI was never an option as the BIK tax was significantly more.
I'm not kidding myself thanks, I didn't say a specialist car I said choice, ie certain car choice criteria will have to aline to pick a Gti.
So I was meaning the Gti is a narrow market that's all, be interesting to see if sales agree. I would have thought most family men with a mortgage and kids probably won't go for a gti 3dr like me. And re the other comment made the R isn't significantly more.
I wasn't making a performance comparison that was never mentioned, the point is you can have a great car but some people will always go for something a bit different , as is their choice. It appears by looking around what's on the roads they are in the minority, most decide on something easier on the pocket, which you appear to agree with, with your Bik statement.
Btw my Bik was about £400 more per year for the Gti.
It sounds like you have 2 lovely cars, enjoy.
Thanks
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An excellent view and well put, I think your right the Gti will almost become a specialist choice
Don't kid yourself, the Golf is just a mainstream hatchback and the GTI is just a fancy version of that. I love hot hatches as all round everyday cars (I've had two Golfs a Mk2 16v and a Mk5 Ed 30, Pug 306 GTI6)... but they're (very good) mass produced hot hatches not specialist cars...
I'm wondering if it's the same decision or motivation as to why someone has a 335i verses the same car with the excellent 320d engine.
There is no comparison in terms of performance... the comparison here would be either 320i v 320d or 335i v 335d
I'm so pleased I had it over the Gtd nothing against then they are excellent cars truly are, but we all make decisions for different criteria as our lives are thankfully diverse.
Exactly, my GTD is a company car a (very nice) beater for the 911 Cab that now lives in the garage waiting for dry days in the summer (assuming they ever arrive)... therefore the GTI was never an option as the BIK tax was significantly more.
Interesting......
I'm getting out of a company Audi A3 Quattro TDi 170 S-Line (bought for the same reasons as most buy GTD's), taking the cash and buying my own GTi ...... which is the beater for my 981 Boxster S! I just got bored with the diesel drone, the oily refueling and the lack of any top end kick! Yes even in my commuter car - after 3 years I wanted more oomph ...... well that and an auto ...... :)
I will look forward to comparing it to my brothers GTD .....
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Nice motor the audi used to always fancy the quat combined with a Tdi.
Four wheel drive would be handy in this Gti in the wet, traction control takes away the power 1st & 2nd, until it finds enough.
When does your Gti arrive?
I think It's hard to makes comparisons the Gtd isnt a Gti with a Diesel engine, it looks different sounds different performs different, not as economical etc etc each to their own on that choice, apples with apples et al.
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Nice motor the audi used to always fancy the quat combined with a Tdi.
Four wheel drive would be handy in this Gti in the wet, traction control takes away the power 1st & 2nd, until it finds enough.
When does your Gti arrive?
I think It's hard to makes comparisons the Gtd isnt a Gti with a Diesel engine, it looks different sounds different performs different, not as economical etc etc each to their own on that choice, apples with apples et al.
The Quattro is a much better car than the standard TDi - not least beacuse you can deploy full power in the lower gears, everywhere. It's been especially good in the streaming wet conditions we've been having recently! Accelerating out of T-junctions hard is fun (hold the revs at 2,500rpm and sidestep the clutch for a tiny bit of wheelspin and a dramatic launch where the rear of the car squats and it just lunges forward), but it's also nice and progressive on wet roundabouts - you just select a lower gear, turn in and pour on the power just before the apex, feeling a nice transition as the power goes to the rear and it pushes the tail round!
The above is one of the reasons I had to have the Performance Pack on the GTi, as I think proper mechanical slippy diffs in front wheel drive cars transform the traction off the line and the ability to get the power down so much sooner when hauling out of a corner - slippery or otherwise! If it's not good enough in this regard - I'll just chop it in for an "R" ....
My GTi arrives next Friday, though and I'm all excited, having paid for it and insured it already! :cool:
To me the GTD/GTi comparison boils down to one thing - money. If you need the economy, you have no choice. However if you value the dynamics more highly (and are prepared to pay for them) - the GTi wins, as it did for me.
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Btw my Bik was about £400 more per year for the Gti.
It sounds like you have 2 lovely cars, enjoy.
I think its closer to £200 for the GTD...
Thanks, I do have a couple of good cars... and enjoy them I will... Thanks.
:grin:
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Btw my Bik was about £400 more per year for the Gti.
It sounds like you have 2 lovely cars, enjoy.
I think its closer to £200 for the GTD...
May well be for you depends on self contribution I was happy with my £400 ish difference.
I did work the fuel out but a while ago now so can't find the scrap of paper, have a feeling it was somewhere around £350 on 12k miles based on national av pump prices and honest johns users submitted data on mpg for Gtd and my exp of the Gti.
Thanks
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To me the GTD/GTi comparison boils down to one thing - money.
Not necessarily. We don't do a huge mileage, so fuel consumption isn't that important. However we often do long journeys where fuel range is important to me. This weekend the Golf will do a 600 mile round trip to visit family. It will easily do that on one tank of fuel. It's only a small thing, but having to be bothered with refueling whilst away or en-route is one thing we won't have to think about.
Similarly with my Passat, we take that to France a few times a year. With it's 700+ mile range, it will always get us to where we are going without having to stop and queue for fuel. Having stopped for a sandwich and a pee, we can be back in the car and probably 20 miles further down the Auto Route in the time it would have taken to put more fuel in.
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To me the GTD/GTi comparison boils down to one thing - money.
Not necessarily. We don't do a huge mileage, so fuel consumption isn't that important. However we often do long journeys where fuel range is important to me. This weekend the Golf will do a 600 mile round trip to visit family. It will easily do that on one tank of fuel. It's only a small thing, but having to be bothered with refueling whilst away or en-route is one thing we won't have to think about.
Similarly with my Passat, we take that to France a few times a year. With it's 700+ mile range, it will always get us to where we are going without having to stop and queue for fuel. Having stopped for a sandwich and a pee, we can be back in the car and probably 20 miles further down the Auto Route in the time it would have taken to put more fuel in.
A 10 minute stop for fuel is hardly a big inconvenience though is it?
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The GTi was my choice because I do very low milage. Journeys are typically a run into the nearby towns 1-4 miles away, or weekend runs 30-40 miles away. For this reason I always go for petrol cars.
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A 10 minute stop for fuel is hardly a big inconvenience though is it?
It's not, but one that I'm happy to do without.
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To me the GTD/GTi comparison boils down to one thing - money.
Not necessarily. We don't do a huge mileage, so fuel consumption isn't that important. However we often do long journeys where fuel range is important to me. This weekend the Golf will do a 600 mile round trip to visit family. It will easily do that on one tank of fuel. It's only a small thing, but having to be bothered with refueling whilst away or en-route is one thing we won't have to think about.
Similarly with my Passat, we take that to France a few times a year. With it's 700+ mile range, it will always get us to where we are going without having to stop and queue for fuel. Having stopped for a sandwich and a pee, we can be back in the car and probably 20 miles further down the Auto Route in the time it would have taken to put more fuel in.
Sure and all understood - but the two key words were at the front of the sentence you didn't quite quote enough of "To me the GTD/GTi comparison boils down to one thing - money. If you need the economy, you have no choice.". :sad:
Everyone has their reasons - e.g. Ginagee doesn't even get hers hot (well except at the weekends) - but I was just stating my own reason - which is (essentially) that I don't need the frugality of a diesel .....
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To me the GTD/GTi comparison boils down to one thing - money.
Not necessarily. We don't do a huge mileage, so fuel consumption isn't that important. However we often do long journeys where fuel range is important to me. This weekend the Golf will do a 600 mile round trip to visit family. It will easily do that on one tank of fuel. It's only a small thing, but having to be bothered with refueling whilst away or en-route is one thing we won't have to think about.
Similarly with my Passat, we take that to France a few times a year. With it's 700+ mile range, it will always get us to where we are going without having to stop and queue for fuel. Having stopped for a sandwich and a pee, we can be back in the car and probably 20 miles further down the Auto Route in the time it would have taken to put more fuel in.
Really Dubber? You can be bothered to stop for a sandwich and a pee but chucking some fuel in the tank is too much effort :rolleyes:
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Really Dubber? You can be bothered to stop for a sandwich and a pee but chucking some fuel in the tank is too much effort :rolleyes:
If I was on my own, I'd keep going all day long without stopping. Once I've started, I just want to get there, however far it is. I've gone from Shropshire to Knockhill in one hit several times. Sandwiches on my knee and a bladder that has been trained to hold on.
It's only the fact that my wife and kids are with me, that I stop for them. However, by not having to put fuel in means I can minimise the amount of time we are stationary, so it's a sort of compromise on my part.
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If I was on my own, I'd keep going all day long without stopping.
I'm with dubber on this...
I've done many of these trips over the years - normally coming back from holiday in Europe somewhere and opting to stay for an extra day and then drive back home stopping only when fuel is required...
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If I was on my own, I'd keep going all day long without stopping. Once I've started, I just want to get there, however far it is. I've gone from Shropshire to Knockhill in one hit several times. Sandwiches on my knee and a bladder that has been trained to hold on.
It's only the fact that my wife and kids are with me, that I stop for them. However, by not having to put fuel in means I can minimise the amount of time we are stationary, so it's a sort of compromise on my part.
The racing circuit at Knockhill?
Agree, if your driving a distance without family in tow, then yes, you just want to get on with it with minimum stops, but a quick call at a petrol station isn't too disruptive to the journey.
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The racing circuit at Knockhill?
Yes. To see the touring cars.
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If I was on my own, I'd keep going all day long without stopping.
I'm with dubber on this...
I've done many of these trips over the years - normally coming back from holiday in Europe somewhere and opting to stay for an extra day and then drive back home stopping only when fuel is required...
Tiredness kills take a break now :wink:
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I'm still here :wink:
I've done plenty of endurance racing (in karts) so I know the effects that tiredness can have... in most circumstances those trips involved two drivers. Just because you're not stopping for refreshment on these trips doesn't mean that you're not drinking/eating...
One of the best, I did by myself, in my first Integra Type-R from Cpoenhagen to Hook of Holland (non stop apart from fuel and the 45 minute ferry crossing from Puttgarten to Rodbyhaven... It was the first time I hit the rev limiter in 5th gear (top) in that car on a stretch of Autobahn... 149.8mph (based on the gearing and the where the rev limiter was set) at 8,500 rpm ... a normally aspirated 1.8
Just over 500 miles in just over 7 hours... I think I stopped once...
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Tiredness kills take a break now :wink:
Or another slurp of Red Bull.
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Tiredness kills take a break now :wink:
Or another slurp of Red Bull.
Made easier with DSG :grin:.
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The racing circuit at Knockhill?
Yes. To see the touring cars.
Always fancied a trip to knockers to see the BTCC, how long did that take you? Oulton park is only 20 miles for me, wondering if members use these opportunities for 'meets' ?
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Always fancied a trip to knockers to see the BTCC, how long did that take you? Oulton park is only 20 miles for me, wondering if members use these opportunities for 'meets' ?
Around 6 hours in the very early hours. My route takes me up the A49, past the turn for Oulton Park, and at that time of day, that's an hour from me, so you ought to do it in 5ish quite easily.
I will definitely be at Oulton in June. We use the Shaws entrance and set up camp just up from Knickerbook by the toilets.
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Everyone has their reasons - e.g. Ginagee doesn't even get hers hot (well except at the weekends)
Erh? :wink:
Actually, I really do fancy a go at Run What You Brung at York Raceway this year… if anyone's up for that?
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Always fancied a trip to knockers to see the BTCC, how long did that take you? Oulton park is only 20 miles for me, wondering if members use these opportunities for 'meets' ?
I will definitely be at Oulton in June. We use the Shaws entrance and set up camp just up from Knickerbook by the toilets.
Do you know why the corner knickerbrook is named so?
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I prefer corners. Track day at Oulton Park anyone?
J
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Do you know why the corner knickerbrook is named so?
No idea? I assumed it would be something to do with the little stream that runs under the track at the bottom of Clay Hill.
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Do you know why the corner knickerbrook is named so?
No idea? I assumed it would be something to do with the little stream that runs under the track at the bottom of Clay Hill.
yes part brook and part knickers!!!
A local massive character from Sandbach Derek (Blaster) Bates a demolition contractor who trained in the army with pops, did loads of work on tree blowing up, literally big one vertically to save digging the roots out. He did some work at Oulton park when it was just that a green park. After he retired he became an after dinner speaker ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1TW5WKWLnA
naming at the end of the clip, (think the clip is early 80's)
if it doesn't play search you tube for "the naming of knicker brook"
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Brilliant :grin: