GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Hawaii-Five-O on 12 November 2013, 21:53
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Now we've had our toys a few weeks just wondering where you think the GTI's engine sweet spot is?
The reason I ask is that I was expecting the sweet spot to be much lower down the rev range... because of the increased torque levels on this new engine.
However, what I'm finding is that the sweet spot is somewhere around the 4,500-6,000 rpm range. This is a surprise given the new torque reserves on tap. I guess I was expecting a more diesel like experience (with it having 258 lbs.ft) and for it to pull strongly in a high gear from around 30-50 mph. It doesn't really do this. Not saying this is bad - just a little surprising.
How have you found it?
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I've been thinking exactly the same thing.
Just hit the massive mileage of 300 and it still feels very tight and I think I'm still taking it very easy keeping the throttle and revs down but varying speeds as much as possible.
With 258 lb ft at low RPMs it should pull like a Diesel but it doesn't. Obviously the mapping and response has been diluted too much so the emissions are kept low and maybe to assist traction for people that can't drive considering the effort it takes to get the accelerator pedal fully down.
A Sprint Booster type device is a must for me on this car and as soon as I'm not completely skint (after buying the darned thing) that will be my first port of call to see if that wakes it up a bit. I'm not after a rocket ship at such low miles, just an accelerator that makes the thing drive like a GTI of yore (Andrew at DTUK will do a forum price on his version).
The 258 lb ft are evident at mid range RPMs as the car gathers speed ok but just doesn't feel at all rapid doing it admittedly not mashing the accelerator but then again, that shouldn't be necessary with this amount of power.
I also find it not very tractable creeping forward in second gear in traffic or long driveways. I have to use first which shouldn't be necessary in my opinion.
Additionally I find the car Diesel like in being very sluggish until warmed up. I'm very sympathetic to mechanical things and always carefully warm my cars up but the responses really are sluggish when cold.
Steering, brakes, suspension and interior really impress but the engine less so despite being the most powerful non K04 GTI ever and certainly the most torquey.
It has to be the mapping as I did loads of miles in various PD170 TDI's and a good few in CR170 GTDs and both of those had excellent responses despite their similarly dull throttle pedal action and the common factor there is the 258 lb ft at low RPMs!!!
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I think your engines just need running it.
Full 350nm torque is available as follows:-
1500-4400rpms on standard GTi
1500-4600rpms on Performace GTi
Full horsepower as follows:-
220ps 4500-6200rpms
230ps 4700-6200rpms
:)
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I've found the same, it really kicks in at around 4-4500 revs - and keeps going :evil:
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@Exonian @ 2013GTi
Maybe we need to wait until our engines have fully run in before this premature critique. These are only my initial observations.
On the commute home last night I couldn't help myself giving the thing a quick blast. That's when I felt the power come on song at around 4,500 rpm. Felt good :evil: But still a surprise the increased torque isn't as evident lower down the rev range.
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If this is the case then it's a little disappointing, the mk5 had torque all over the place which was something that made it a great all rounder.
When I had a MINI Cooper you used to have to rev it up to 4,500 to get the most out of it which was a little annoying.
Looks like a re-map is going to be on the cards.
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I've been thinking exactly the same thing.
Just hit the massive mileage of 300 and it still feels very tight and I think I'm still taking it very easy keeping the throttle and revs down but varying speeds as much as possible.
With 258 lb ft at low RPMs it should pull like a Diesel but it doesn't. Obviously the mapping and response has been diluted too much so the emissions are kept low and maybe to assist traction for people that can't drive considering the effort it takes to get the accelerator pedal fully down.
A Sprint Booster type device is a must for me on this car and as soon as I'm not completely skint (after buying the darned thing) that will be my first port of call to see if that wakes it up a bit. I'm not after a rocket ship at such low miles, just an accelerator that makes the thing drive like a GTI of yore (Andrew at DTUK will do a forum price on his version).
The 258 lb ft are evident at mid range RPMs as the car gathers speed ok but just doesn't feel at all rapid doing it admittedly not mashing the accelerator but then again, that shouldn't be necessary with this amount of power.
I also find it not very tractable creeping forward in second gear in traffic or long driveways. I have to use first which shouldn't be necessary in my opinion.
Additionally I find the car Diesel like in being very sluggish until warmed up. I'm very sympathetic to mechanical things and always carefully warm my cars up but the responses really are sluggish when cold.
Steering, brakes, suspension and interior really impress but the engine less so despite being the most powerful non K04 GTI ever and certainly the most torquey.
It has to be the mapping as I did loads of miles in various PD170 TDI's and a good few in CR170 GTDs and both of those had excellent responses despite their similarly dull throttle pedal action and the common factor there is the 258 lb ft at low RPMs!!!
I'm guessing a sprit booster is one of these, DTE Systems Maximum Response PEDAL BOX from DTUK.
Until I get my car and live with it I don't know how it will compare from my current GTD. I think coming from 170ps to 230ps should be enough for me. If not I might try one of these.
Has anyone had one before?
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I find the GTI's power delivery to be really strange. You get some pull at around 3k RPM then at 4.5k you feel a lot more pull almost like the turbos suddenly decided to spool up.
To be perfectly honest i'm disappointed with the GTI's performance as it only seems to want to move at 3/4 throttle. It sounds fantastic but it just doesn't seem that exciting. I don't know if it's because of how safe it feels at high speeds or what but I was expecting more punch. Definitely getting a remap as soon as Revo or APR bring out a decent one.
I'm gonna write a full review later to say how I find the car after the initial excitement has gone down.
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I've been thinking exactly the same thing.
Just hit the massive mileage of 300 and it still feels very tight and I think I'm still taking it very easy keeping the throttle and revs down but varying speeds as much as possible.
With 258 lb ft at low RPMs it should pull like a Diesel but it doesn't. Obviously the mapping and response has been diluted too much so the emissions are kept low and maybe to assist traction for people that can't drive considering the effort it takes to get the accelerator pedal fully down.
A Sprint Booster type device is a must for me on this car and as soon as I'm not completely skint (after buying the darned thing) that will be my first port of call to see if that wakes it up a bit. I'm not after a rocket ship at such low miles, just an accelerator that makes the thing drive like a GTI of yore (Andrew at DTUK will do a forum price on his version).
The 258 lb ft are evident at mid range RPMs as the car gathers speed ok but just doesn't feel at all rapid doing it admittedly not mashing the accelerator but then again, that shouldn't be necessary with this amount of power.
I also find it not very tractable creeping forward in second gear in traffic or long driveways. I have to use first which shouldn't be necessary in my opinion.
Additionally I find the car Diesel like in being very sluggish until warmed up. I'm very sympathetic to mechanical things and always carefully warm my cars up but the responses really are sluggish when cold.
Steering, brakes, suspension and interior really impress but the engine less so despite being the most powerful non K04 GTI ever and certainly the most torquey.
It has to be the mapping as I did loads of miles in various PD170 TDI's and a good few in CR170 GTDs and both of those had excellent responses despite their similarly dull throttle pedal action and the common factor there is the 258 lb ft at low RPMs!!!
I'm guessing a sprit booster is one of these, DTE Systems Maximum Response PEDAL BOX from DTUK.
Until I get my car and live with it I don't know how it will compare from my current GTD. I think coming from 170ps to 230ps should be enough for me. If not I might try one of these.
Has anyone had one before?
Yes I've run one before hence needing another one! Really not happy with the throttle response as standard.
If this is the case then it's a little disappointing, the mk5 had torque all over the place which was something that made it a great all rounder.
When I had a MINI Cooper you used to have to rev it up to 4,500 to get the most out of it which was a little annoying.
Looks like a re-map is going to be on the cards.
I was never that impressed with the torque on the mk5 GTI either. Same as the mk6, the torque is there but feels really flat in the mk5. These things need remapping!! Even if you don't drive like a loon (and I don't) the remap just makes these cars so much easier to drive. So much more rewarding to drive.
On modern congested roads it's just not practical to have all your performance at mid to high revs.
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I think your engines just need running it.
Full 350nm torque is available as follows:-
1500-4400rpms on standard GTi
1500-4600rpms on Performace GTi
Full horsepower as follows:-
220ps 4500-6200rpms
230ps 4700-6200rpms
:)
The torque might be there but it's well hidden by ECU mapping.
That seems to be a current trait with a lot of newer vehicles as I drove a new Vauxhall Combo van the other day and that felt sh!t after a 194000 miles three year old one it replaced!! No low down delivery at all which is rubbish in a delivery van that will be used round the town mostly.
Also the newer VW Caddy vans feel really flat compared to the ones we use at work that are a few years old. Same nominal power and torque but feel really flat.
It must be an Eco thing to get emissions down.
That's all very well on a test rig but in the real world if you have to rev the guts out of it to get it to drive right you're not exactly going to be very ecologically sound!
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I think your signature says it all... "A bit quicker than the Ibiza but doesn't feel it"
I suspect that the significantly improved refinement is, at least in part, making you feel like this. Some would argue that a long throttle pedal is a good thing, making it easier to modulate the power.
VW have worked hard to deliver a very flat torque curve to make the car more drivable across the widest range of engine speeds and loads (within the confines of other factors, such as emissions, longevity etc.). What this means is that you shouldn't be experiencing a spike in the power leaving you with a power delivery which is very linear but lacks that shove you get from old school turbos and normally aspirated cars with a pronounced power band - I remember my "classic" shape Saab 900 Turbo 16s... nothing... nothing... 1/4 mile down the road :evil: and my Integra Type Rs, a massive change in acceleration as the second cam came on song, the S2000 was similar but less pronounced in the end you learned to drive accordingly.
When I drove the Mk7 GTI the other week this was not in evidence... I thought it had a smooth, linear power delivery with little turbo lag... I thought the throttle response was a little slow but that's often the way with turbo cars... but my only current reference is to my normally aspirated 911 or the g/fs new 120d (which has very slow throttle response in Eco Pro mode and acceptable in Sport +)...
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You guys (and others with paintwork problems) have got me really worried now.
I'm expecting my GTI next March, and I'm beginning to wonder if it's going to be money well spent or a regret.
The last thing I want is to be landed with an expensive dud, and would be quite prepared to lose £500 deposit if I felt I was going end up with donkey. :sad:
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You guys (and others with paintwork problems) have got me really worried now.
I'm expecting my GTI next March, and I'm beginning to wonder if it's going to be money well spent or a regret.
The last thing I want is to be landed with an expensive dud, and would be quite prepared to lose £500 deposit if I felt I was going end up with donkey. :sad:
That will depend on your expectations and what you're coming from.
I've ordered a GTD as a company car. I wanted something that had reasonable performance, low emissions (to keep the tax bill down), would be comfortable to drive all day, handled well... I don't believe I'll be disappointed... I have a 911 in the garage for went I want excitement :smug:
As for the paintwork issues, they sound pretty isolated to me - that's not to belittle the ones that are suffering them and from the threads I've seen they seem to be down to transportation or dealer prep...
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Been reading this thread with interest.... You guys are hard to please!
I'm still in the running in phase of my gti but I have to say I'm more than happy with the power and torque delivery (think its sounds great as well). I am a true petrol head having been lucky to own some quick cars over the years so have plenty to compare it to. Think its important to remember its only 220bhp, in my opinion though it feels a fair bit quicker than the figures suggest.
I've not taken mine above 5k revs but once your above the 2.5k revs it really seems to come alive. I'm looking forward to running up another couple of hundred miles so I can give it the full beans.
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This GTI is by no means a dud or a donkey (@GrahamS)! Far from it. It's a fantastic car that I'm just learning to live with.
I just wanted to share my initial thoughts on the engine characteristics. On reflection I feel I should have waited until the engine was fully run in before posting my findings.
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This GTI is by no means a dud or a donkey (@GrahamS)! Far from it. It's a fantastic car that I'm just learning to live with.
I just wanted to share my initial thoughts on the engine characteristics. On reflection I feel I should have waited until the engine was fully run in before posting my findings.
No, I think you were right to vent what you thought was not a good feature. It could well change a little when the engine loosens up but it won't change massively unless there's something in the software that clicks over at a certain number of kilometres which I sincerely doubt.
I think it's just how the ECU is mapped.
It will suit some people better than others.
I drive quite a variety of vehicles weekly (mostly Diesels admittedly) and thus I get a feel for things.
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I have the dtuk box from my FR. Didn't like it on that so took it off and it's currently residing at the bottom of a vase somewhere. When I get my gti I will try it on that if it fits which I am assuming it will, but if again I don't like it which I am assuming I won't one of you guys can have it on here foc as its just gathering dust and I have lost the little fuses that let you 'adjust' the response of it slightly, but they should be easy to source or replicate as they were just tiny little resistors I think.
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I think my post may have been a little misleading, so to correct:
I find the power delivery smooth and from the off - it may be a placebo effect but i feel there is a little more punch around 4k revs, however up to that point its by no means sluggish - no one should have any concerns!