GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Jimble on 10 November 2013, 12:12
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So as not to clog up the R thread i've copied this to here:
@Jimble what are you not liking with DSG?
Back on the R topic - why do most folk think its essential to have DSG on the R?
Ok, trying not to stray too far off topic, the biggest problem i have is that there is no consistency with it on my daily route which has some up and down hills, stop start traffic and a couple of long straight roads, if your travelling at speeds between 28 and 31 mph it will either be in 3rd or 4th and will only change to 5th at 32mph or above?? whilst whilst accelerating up and and down any kind if gradient it will hold onto 2nd or 3rd way too long or it'll be in 4th and i'm happy! I've done the same journey ~25 times in this car now and every day seems different! When in stop start traffic with the stop start system active it's pot luck as to whether it'll pull away smoothly as soon as you lift your foot off the brake or if it will lurch forward as it releases the brake itself and the traffic in front has disappeared into the distance!
If the car is just in D there isn't enough urgency when trying to pull away quickly or accelerating hard from a slow pace unless you floor it into kick down which seems to take an eternity to decide which gear to be in! Now this can be solved by being in S but then the revs are held up at 3k which i don't want all the time!!
I've tried driving it in manual mode in traffic but it will not give me the gear i want and still changes down for me! WTF?
I may have misunderstood Jimble but why do you want 5th gear at 30mph? That would be labouring the engine and have no response to acceleration at all. 3rd is ideal at that speed.
Mine always pulls away smoothly from auto stop/start as soon as I remove the brake pedal, do you have auto-hold on? I turned this back off as there's a little delay.
As for kick down. Mine changes instantly on kick down. It will drop from 5th into 2nd for example and instantly send you flying.
The main reason i want 5th is for fuel economy which this car is sorely lacking in round town, i'm not saying it should be in 5th as soon as i reach 31 mph but should it really be in 3rd at 26~27 with the engine buzzing away? I'm already tired of it's constant up-down shifting between 25 and 31 which unfortunately is most of the daily trip! Auto hold is off at all times as it just makes things worse, 5th gear in my manual mk6 was perfectly fine and never laboured the motor so why should this be any different? This car WILL NOT give me 5th at 30 even in manual which really winds me up!! Even if the motor started to chugg it's my car and i'll decide!!!! I thought i'd love it having driven many auto boxes over the years which have been fine but i just don't get along with this automated manual.
I was using the acc on the motorway yesterday which is an awesome bit of kit, unfortunately there were two accidents on the m6 which involved quite a bit of stop start, now from the videos i've seen i thought you didn't need to do anything but when the car stops and the engine cuts out, when it restarts you need to touch the gas pedal to get going again, is this right?
@Mr Savage, If your car kicks down instantly then i suspect that mine could have an issue as it is not instant, yes once it's gone your off like a shot but it seems to take a second to decide what to do?
Another thing, when i reverse off my drive and then change to D there is a definate delay, it goes into forward drive instantly but when starting to pull away it's almost as though the clutch hasn't engaged fully, anyone else have similar?
Like i said in the other thread, there isn't enough urgency under medium throttle in D but nobody wants to keep it in S on the daily commute do they? It could do with something in between.
It stands a very good chance that i'm the problem but i guess i'm just one of the many people that don't get on with the DSG box?
I don't think i'd re order another GTI as i'd lose too much money for the same car, whereas at least if i went with an R it would be a change.
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Jimble, it sounds like a problematic gearbox, could your dealer reprogrammise it for you? Though, it's a possibility that since you drove a manual before, you can't get accustomed to the dsg yet. The delay between forward-rearward and the opposite is normal by the way, to prevent the gearbox. As you know, going rearwards, restrains the worm gear too much because it reverts the movement of the engine. So the gearbox should fully disengage and engage the 1st gear/reverse. You should come to a complete stop before going in the other direction and not do it as you did in the manual (slipping the clutch to stop and continue in the opposite direction). That's probably the delay you noticed after selecting first...
Just some thoughts, don't get me wrong. I never were or will be with dsgs, probably my age (can't teach an old dog new tricks, that is). If I were you I would take a visit to the dealer and reset and reprogram the dsg software (if it can be done, i don't know, never bothered with automated trannies!)
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I would log your potential dsg issues with the dealership and ask them to arrange a test drive in their demo gti to see if its you or your car.
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I would log your potential dsg issues with the dealership and ask them to arrange a test drive in their demo gti to see if its you or your car.
Good idea :smiley: then you will know if it's a issue with your DSG box.
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I would log your potential dsg issues with the dealership and ask them to arrange a test drive in their demo gti to see if its you or your car.
Good idea :) then you will know if it's a issue with your DSG box.
Might ask them to scan it while it's in, only problem with a test drive is their demo is a manual so thats out. :( Do they do software updates on the gearbox?
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I would log your potential dsg issues with the dealership and ask them to arrange a test drive in their demo gti to see if its you or your car.
Good idea :) then you will know if it's a issue with your DSG box.
Might ask them to scan it while it's in, only problem with a test drive is their demo is a manual so thats out. :( Do they do software updates on the gearbox?
As long as it has a software and tuners have tuning software for dsgs, I think that they can update or reload the software from the factory... I think it can be done.
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I do agree with you Jimble that the first drive for me was massively disappointing. The car felt underwhelming with the DSG box in drive, I had come from a MK5 GT TDI 140 manual which seemed quicker than the GTI and I was confused as to what was going on.
However it was a combination of me being gentle with the throttle because it was new and getting used to the DSG box. The car is definitely lacking gut in Drive with gentle throttle and I agree that in sport it just wants to smash every gear into the red line regardless of your throttle pressure, which is a little irritating. I have resorted to just using manual mode, in sport and using the paddles for all my driving which is great.
Yes when auto start/stop cuts the engine out you need to press the accelerator to get moving again, this is normal. However you get used to the pressure point on the brake pedal to engage start/stop. You can bring the car to a stop and hold the car still without the engine cutting off if you don't push down too heavily on the brake pedal when you're at a stand still. The most annoying thing I find with start/stop is when you come to park up and you drive past a space that you want to reverse into. As soon as you stop it cuts the engine out and then when you engage reverse it starts the engine up again, very irritating I found!
This hasn't bothered me much though because I won't mind the engine labouring a little in drive or blasting through the revs in sport once it's at that magic broken in number. There is a split second delay from kick down but only slight. For overtaking I usually just tap the paddle shifter down to get an instant boost.
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Thanks for that mate, i have noticed that sitting lightly on the brake stops it from cutting out, my gripe with the stop start is that sometimes when i have let it stop, when i lift my foot off the brake the car will fire up and start to creep straight away which is perfect and exactly how i like it, however sometimes it'll fire back up and then take 2 seconds to release the brakes which then causes a slight lurch and i don't know why?
I'm glad you've found a way to make it work for you but using the manual paddles on an auto box kind of defeats the point really don't you think?
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Thanks for that mate, i have noticed that sitting lightly on the brake stops it from cutting out, my gripe with the stop start is that sometimes when i have let it stop, when i lift my foot off the brake the car will fire up and start to creep straight away which is perfect and exactly how i like it, however sometimes it'll fire back up and then take 2 seconds to release the brakes which then causes a slight lurch and i don't know why?
I'm glad you've found a way to make it work for you but using the manual paddles on an auto box kind of defeats the point really don't you think?
Hm, can't say i've experienced that myself but i'll check it out when I drive the car later tonight as it needs another tank of fuel (This thing absolutely drinks fuel) Are you experiencing that too Jimble? It seems to consume a tank every 200 miles which I find pretty pathetic even pottering around in drive.
The only lurch i've experienced is when it's downshifting itself as you're coming to a stop in manual mode and it doesn't change from 2nd to 1st very smoothly at all.
Yeah that's true it does feel a bit silly to have to use the paddles on an auto box and I hope it's not a permanent thing.
Maybe we should both just go and trade ours in for a Golf R Manual? :grin:
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I'm seriously considering swapping for an R, if my dealer can make the numbers work then it might actually happen! ;D
The fuel consumption is a friggin digrace!! I've mentioned it before but i'm really not happy about it, now i'm not expecting miracles but when vw say it should do 34.9mpg on the urban cycle and it's actually doing 25-26mpg it's not on! My manual mk6 would easily do 33-34mpg on the same trip when the book says 28.9 mpg??? :o
Now i know people say "you don't buy a GTI for fuel consumption" but it makes my piss boil when it's not doing at least as much as the supposedly less fuel efficient car it replaced!!! >:(
At least if i buy an R i'll be expecting poor fuel consumption, not the bullsh!t i've bought into with this GTI!
And have you noticed that the ECO mode is a red herring?? The displayed avg mpg is at least 3mpg down on NORMAL!
And breath.....
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Hey Jimble, I know exactly what you are talking about. When I test drove the GTD DSG I thought it was awful, very unresponsive and it made the car feel slow. I currently have a mk6 2.0 tdi 140 manual and that felt faster than the DSG GTD. When I then drove a manual GTD it was so much better, felt like an entirely different car. It was more responsive and I felt I had much more control over the car which overall made it feel much faster and what I expected the GTD to be like.
That was my first experience of a DSG box and i'm afraid to say I have been severely put off and probably won't consider one again.
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Gonna be a big loss on the GTI though, value wise, plummets as soon as you go off the forecourt then holds for a while.
I agree the fuel consumption is sickening, the R32 with it's thirsty 3.2 V6 hits the same average MPG figures....no idea what's going off there.
I've not even bothered with eco mode yet as the car doesn't feel quick unless it's in sport and being booted, hm making me consider changing now! Haha.
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Exactly! And this will be my first and last DSG box, i test drove the dealerships manual GTI a couple of weeks before i collected mine and i was extremely impressed which re ignited the excitement after a very long wait, only to feel quite disappointed with my own car. :'(
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MPG wise you need to have a lot more miles on the car before it gets better. 10-20k miles is my estimate.
It's a shame the DSG is ruining your ownership experiance of what is a great car.
Maybe see if your dealer can swap you out into another GTi with minimal loss?
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Gonna be a big loss on the GTI though, value wise, plummets as soon as you go off the forecourt then holds for a while.
I agree the fuel consumption is sickening, the R32 with it's thirsty 3.2 V6 hits the same average MPG figures....no idea what's going off there.
I've not even bothered with eco mode yet as the car doesn't feel quick unless it's in sport and being booted, hm making me consider changing now! Haha.
Yeah i know, my thinking is if i don't bother with a few options i've got on the GTI then it might not seem so bad?
MPG wise you need to have a lot more miles on the car before it gets better. 10-20k miles is my estimate.
It's a shame the DSG is ruining your ownership experiance of what is a great car.
Maybe see if your dealer can swap you out into another GTi with minimal loss?
Thats a shame cos my 3.5year old mk6 only had 17500ish miles on! ;D
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This doesn't really apply to the GTi, due to gearing - however, the MK6 DSG R is much quicker to 60 than the Manual:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRwfvnDt7BA
Not sure if this affects the decision at all. Collecting my GTi next Saturday, spec'ed with DSG due to lots of positive feedback about the gearbox but reading this thread has really got me worried!!!
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Gonna be a big loss on the GTI though, value wise, plummets as soon as you go off the forecourt then holds for a while.
I agree the fuel consumption is sickening, the R32 with it's thirsty 3.2 V6 hits the same average MPG figures....no idea what's going off there.
I've not even bothered with eco mode yet as the car doesn't feel quick unless it's in sport and being booted, hm making me consider changing now! Haha.
You instantly lose 20% due to the VAT - you can't get that back when trading in etc.
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Gonna be a big loss on the GTI though, value wise, plummets as soon as you go off the forecourt then holds for a while.
I agree the fuel consumption is sickening, the R32 with it's thirsty 3.2 V6 hits the same average MPG figures....no idea what's going off there.
I've not even bothered with eco mode yet as the car doesn't feel quick unless it's in sport and being booted, hm making me consider changing now! Haha.
You instantly lose 20% due to the VAT - you can't get that back when trading in etc.
EEEK!! :sick:
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Gonna be a big loss on the GTI though, value wise, plummets as soon as you go off the forecourt then holds for a while.
I agree the fuel consumption is sickening, the R32 with it's thirsty 3.2 V6 hits the same average MPG figures....no idea what's going off there.
I've not even bothered with eco mode yet as the car doesn't feel quick unless it's in sport and being booted, hm making me consider changing now! Haha.
You instantly lose 20% due to the VAT - you can't get that back when trading in etc.
EEEK!! :sick:
Did you manage to get much discount on your original GTi order? If you can negotiate 10-12% off an R, might not be too bad to change.
Or go for another GTi, but a manual maybe? The DSG box is what £1500 extra over a manual?
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You could try selling it private on pistonheads as I bet there are a lot of people who wont wait for a well speced GTI at the moment and would be willing to buy yours due to the spec.
Then buy a cheap car for the winter until your R arrives. :cool:
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I really want to test drive the manual to see what the difference is between that and my DSG. Because I will admit that the GTI feels slow to say so many people were ranting about how it feels so fast and how they were blown away by it's performance.
When I first drove it out the dealer I thought "Is that it?" then got a little more excited when the engine came to life in higher revs but again it was all sound and no movement.
I do enjoy the car in manual mode with paddle shifters but hm, you've made me start to doubt the DSG box too now Jimble!
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I really want to test drive the manual to see what the difference is between that and my DSG. Because I will admit that the GTI feels slow to say so many people were ranting about how it feels so fast and how they were blown away by it's performance.
When I first drove it out the dealer I thought "Is that it?" then got a little more excited when the engine came to life in higher revs but again it was all sound and no movement.
I do enjoy the car in manual mode with paddle shifters but hm, you've made me start to doubt the DSG box too now Jimble!
Sorry mate! The manual is a completely different animal, instant long ratio power that keeps coming or relaxed easy cruising without touching a button!
Gonna be a big loss on the GTI though, value wise, plummets as soon as you go off the forecourt then holds for a while.
I agree the fuel consumption is sickening, the R32 with it's thirsty 3.2 V6 hits the same average MPG figures....no idea what's going off there.
I've not even bothered with eco mode yet as the car doesn't feel quick unless it's in sport and being booted, hm making me consider changing now! Haha.
You instantly lose 20% due to the VAT - you can't get that back when trading in etc.
EEEK!! :sick:
Did you manage to get much discount on your original GTi order? If you can negotiate 10-12% off an R, might not be too bad to change.
Or go for another GTi, but a manual maybe? The DSG box is what £1500 extra over a manual?
No actual discount but got ~£2k over book on my trade in so no idea what discount that amounts to?
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No actual discount but got ~£2k over book on my trade in so no idea what discount that amounts to?
About £2k.
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No actual discount but got ~£2k over book on my trade in so no idea what discount that amounts to?
About £2k.
I meant percentage smart arse! ;D
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Lol!!! :evil:
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No actual discount but got ~£2k over book on my trade in so no idea what discount that amounts to?
About £2k.
Ha.
Just to give you an idea, a 63 demo GTI DSG PP with 7k on the clock books at this: (I tell I lie, everytime I HPI any of our DSG demo's, they are all coming up as auto. Bizarre. Usually an auto add's another £1000 on.
Edit: Just seen it say's S-A. Presume semi automatic? Strange it still is classing it as a manual though.
(http://thumbsnap.com/s/Qm7bzzco.png)
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No actual discount but got ~£2k over book on my trade in so no idea what discount that amounts to?
About £2k.
Ha.
Just to give you an idea, a 63 demo GTI DSG PP with 7k on the clock books at this: (I tell I lie, everytime I HPI any of our DSG demo's, they are all coming up as auto. Bizarre. Usually an auto add's another £1000 on.
Edit: Just seen it say's S-A. Presume semi automatic? Strange it still is classing it as a manual though.
(http://thumbsnap.com/s/Qm7bzzco.png)
Ouch! Mines a DSG with the spec in my sig, and currently has ~700 miles on! :D
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Ouch! Mines a DSG with the spec in my sig, and currently has ~700 miles on! :D
Took the liberty of looking up a GTD. There 2k less than the GTI's. I thought the diesels were meant to hold their value more.
If it' worth £22k after a few months, can't see if being worth £15k after 3 years
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It all depends what you mean by 'worth'! Have a look on Autotrader - you wil not find any 'nearly new' GTI/GTD on offer at 20% under list. Of course thats list at dealers - what they might offer you as a trade in might be nearer to the 20% depreciation that people are talking about. But in reality who is going to do that?
if you bought a new GTI DSG and woke up a week later and decided to have a manual one you would find a buyer for it without taking anything like a 20% hit. Not saying you would get list for it in a private sale but if you had bought with say a 10% discount you would not be looking at a caning.
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Really sorry to hear you're not getting on with DSG Jimble. Sounds like no encouragement from me is gonna change your mind. I love it. But I have just come from 4 years driving a Scirocco with 7 speed DSG.
Little tip for ya:
When using stop/start with Adaptive Cruise Control, once it brings the car to a compete stop, the engine cuts out, you wait until the car in front moves, engine restarts, press the 'RES' button on the steering wheel and the car will start accelerating without touching any pedals. Works a treat :wink:
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Really sorry to hear you're not getting on with DSG Jimble. Sounds like no encouragement from me is gonna change your mind. I love it. But I have just come from 4 years driving a Scirocco with 7 speed DSG.
Little tip for ya:
When using stop/start with Adaptive Cruise Control, once it brings the car to a compete stop, the engine cuts out, you wait until the car in front moves, engine restarts, press the 'RES' button on the steering wheel and the car will start accelerating without touching any pedals. Works a treat ;)
Awesome! Thanks for that mate, i'll give it a go 8)
Glad your liking it, is it working as well in your GTI as it did in your Roc? I've drven my friends Polo GTI a few times and it seems to suit it a bit better being the 7 speed dry clutch.
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I haven't read through all of this thread, but it took me some time to get used to driving a DSG. Sometimes it does feel a little slow to do what you want it to do, but the reality is, it isn't.
For example, when driving the DSG when your mind says "go", you press the throttle, the box thinks, then changes down, then off you go. That whole process takes x amount of time. In the manual, your mind says "go", you dip the clutch, reach for a gear, come off the clutch, press the throttle, then off you go. From the thought leaving your brain, to the car shooting off, which is fastest? I'd say the DSG even if it doesn't feel it. Maybe because we feel detached from the experience.
I'm sure the same applies when reversing off your drive. You want it to move forward as soon as you have selected D and pressed the throttle. I don't supposed that it takes any longer than it takes you to clutch down, change from reverse to first (whilst still rolling backwards) then wait until you are going sufficiently slowly enough to release the clutch and move forwards.
For most of the time, I just leave it in D and let it do it's thing. The only time I use the paddles is to upshift when overtaking to save the thing reving more than is necessary when the throttle is pinned.
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Yes - I agree with Dubber36. We came from a Fiesta ST a few years back and swapped it for a Polo GTI (7 speed DSG).
The DSG seemed slow and very uninvolving initially and it seemed a massive disapointment. However, after a short while I soon got used to it and enjoy driving it.
It does take a while to adapt, having a computer to effectively to predict gear changes for you is probably the reason the car feels slower, but in reality it isnt.
As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, these engines take quite a while to give their best. For example, I also own a manual Scirocco, and that is yielding better fuel consumption at 18K compared to 8K for example. Anything under 5K miles I reckon is going to be short of manufacturer claimed figures dependent on driving style etc.
I was also of the opinion that I wanted to go back to a manual, but I say, stick with it. It does have its little qwirks, but I for one love using it now.
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Thanks for the positive vibes chaps! :cool: whatever happens i'll either have it for 6 months or 3-4 years so i'll have plenty of time to get to know it! :grin:
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Jimple, you've really given me something to think about with this thread.
Being only 19, many people think I'm mad for choosing a DSG as it's perceived as a 'lazy' style of driving.
I spend 20 minutes a day stuck on the M42, so I've chosen it for this reason as daily, this kills me with the constant stop start.
However, I've just found to love them with all sorts of driving. I quite often just go out for a drive. No destination, just giving the car the beans. I've developed this route over time which involves a 12% gradient hill climb and some good empty back roads.
I've since done this route tons of times, in a variety of cars. This take me back to a time a did the route one day in 1.8 Civic, and it was fun. I then did in the same car, but with a CVT gearbox, and I found it just as fun, if not more so.
I'm now just hoping the car will be good with a DSG and not just a lump (I've not even driven one yet :huh:). Boy are you giving me doubts.
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The best advice i could give mate is to test drive one, like i said earlier i've driven a few different cars with auto boxes including a Polo GTI with DSG and almost always enjoyed them but imo the DSG bix just doesn't suit this car, i know many will and do disagree with that but i just don't like the characteristics of it, i wouldn't want anyone to feel how i'm feeling about my brand new car!
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Phil, I agree with Jimble that Drive leaves something to be desired and Sport wants to kill you and the engine.
But and I know this sounds ridiculous the DSG box is fantastic in manual mode using the paddles to change gear. You might think that "why not just buy a manual then" but the DSG gearbox changes gears so much faster than a manual and is very smooth even when using the paddles and the car is fast when driven this way.
Test drive both as I'm a little underwhelmed with DSG this time overall especially since there was so much hype about the performance and it "seeming faster than the acclaimed figures". It doesn't feel much faster tan my GT TDI to be honest and that had 110 less BHP and the same torque.
I'm gonna drive the manual and see how it compares.