GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Hawaii-Five-O on 24 June 2013, 19:53
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Forgive the NASA pun but my head is all over the place.
Following a visit to my local VW dealer this afternoon I finally got to see a Mk7 GTI in the metal... trouble is I've fallen head over heels. What a handsome beast. As a result... I'm considering changing my order from a GTD to a GTI. I know, I know... I need help :undecided:
Am I nuts to delay things even further by switching? It'll only cost me a few more quid but I'm worried the delay could be a shocker.
Here are my reasons for changing:
I've always wanted a GTI ever since I was a kid (and at long last I'm grateful I can afford one)
It's iconic
I may regret it if I don't
It's getting rave reviews as a brilliant all-rounder
Now seems like the right time
I only do around 10-11k per year (so do I really need a diesel)
The GTD may not be as fun to drive as the GTI (GTD buyers please do not take offence)
Having driven a petrol Scirocco for 4 yrs, and love it, why go back to a diesel?
It only costs a bit more then the GTD
It will be a private purchase not company car
Reasons against switching to the GTI (and why I ordered the GTD):
More expensive to run than the GTD
More expensive to tax than the GTD
Slightly more expensive to insure than the GTD
Worse mpg than the GTD
Not as pragmatic as the GTD
My dealer may not give me as good a discount on the GTI
So now I don't know whether to stick with the GTD, which I know will be mint, or do I change for what I truly long for but was being Mr Sensible?
Why the hell did I visit that dealer? Life would be simpler if I hadn't :wink:
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Sounds to me like your heart wants the GTI, I think once you realise this, you'll know waiting a few more weeks is better than regretting what you've got.
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My view is that all cars are a waste of money - so you might as well get the one that you want regardless of whether its the sensible choice or not otherwise you'll always be thinking 'if only'
Do it....you know you wanna.... :evil:
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Forgive the NASA pun but my head is all over the place.
Following a visit to my local VW dealer this afternoon I finally got to see a Mk7 GTI in the metal... trouble is I've fallen head over heels. What a handsome beast. As a result... I'm considering changing my order from a GTD to a GTI. I know, I know... I need help :undecided:
Am I nuts to delay things even further by switching? It'll only cost me a few more quid but I'm worried the delay could be a shocker.
Here are my reasons for changing:
I've always wanted a GTI ever since I was a kid (and at long last I'm grateful I can afford one)
It's iconic
I may regret it if I don't
It's getting rave reviews as a brilliant all-rounder
Now seems like the right time
I only do around 10-11k per year (so do I really need a diesel)
The GTD may not be as fun to drive as the GTI (GTD buyers please do not take offence)
Having driven a petrol Scirocco for 4 yrs, and love it, why go back to a diesel?
It only costs a bit more then the GTD
It will be a private purchase not company car
Reasons against switching to the GTI (and why I ordered the GTD):
More expensive to run than the GTD
More expensive to tax than the GTD
Slightly more expensive to insure than the GTD
Worse mpg than the GTD
Not as pragmatic as the GTD
My dealer may not give me as good a discount on the GTI
So now I don't know whether to stick with the GTD, which I know will be mint, or do I change for what I truly long for but was being Mr Sensible?
Why the hell did I visit that dealer? Life would be simpler if I hadn't :wink:
For me a company driver with C02 incentives I can option 5 door, DSG and add options with no additional cost to me against a standard manual GTI at high cost. - The choice was easy as the GTD is going to be everything the GTI is but with a little less performance that in day to day road conditions is for most part negated and I save a load in ££ that are much needed elsewhere with family demands.
If I was a private buyer and had them head to head then I would not worry about the MPG and the minor additional costs I would buy a GTI without question and first and main reason would be the styling and name is truly Iconic. - The added performance would be a bonus.
For us company drivers it is easy particularly those on C02 schemes (more ££ to spend lower C02) but unless going to drive tons of miles as a private I think it would be GTI all the way .. Honest thoughts.
As others said fact you are thinking this and differences are marginal really then just do it, the wait will be worth it as the time soon passes and you 100% will have no regrets at all once get it!
I know I will love the GTD am getting one! so this is a truly objective view
Such is the Iconic GTI pull that when my GTD arrives the Mini Cooper is being sold to make way for a MKV GTI so we have one of each in the family :)
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You know if you we're thinking of a car 10k more in cost then I see a dilemma but not the the difference in price from the iconic GTI to the tractor.
Get the GTI :wink:
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Would you miss the extra grand a year it'll cost a year to run a GTI (taking all ownership costs into account, not just fuel)?
If not then go for it. This was my initial dilemma, then I thought i'd rather have an extra £80 a month in my pocket for the difference. For me the only advantage (slight) is what is under the bonnet, but I do love that huge initial shove of the high end TDI engines.
My for/against list was:-
Prefer GTD wheels (not by much)
It'll cost equivalent of £80 a month more for a GTI on my mileage
Don't care it doesn't have a red stripe on the grille
Don't care it has split exhaust
Prefer tartan seats without red accents
Don't care about red stitching on gearstick, steering wheel and maybe seats
Otherwise it is the same car with same equipment
My 11k pa mileage isn't a dealbreaker for petrol power, but when I get made redundant, who knows how far my commute will be when I get another job.
For me it is all about the slight everyday performance gains not being worth the car costing almost 20% more (to me) to own over 3 years.
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I had the same dilemma when I got the mk6 and it is a tough choice, but for me doing 10k a year my heart won out and I got another GTI.
The GTD is brilliant car but like you I always wanted a GTI from when I was little and there is just something that draws me to the GTI.
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Hawaii: If you fancy one in a hurry, you could give the Benfield proper UK spec one a look. You could negotiate a discount, if they've had it a week and not sold it.
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Like a few others on here i always wanted a GTI growing up and had to go through a few cars climbing the ladder to get where i am with my mk6 and even though i only do ~7k a year i did consider the GTD to keep the cost down a little, however i'm so happy i pushed the boat out a little bit further and got the GTI as it's been a joy to own and that feeling that i've got the car i always wanted rather than settling is awesome!!! I still want a mint mk1 though! :drool:
If your heart wants the GTI then go for it! YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT!!!! :)
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Tough choice :grin:
I think I prefer the GTi :laugh: :evil:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ebIaRysHKxo/TggPg1ftIYI/AAAAAAAAE20/nxndYtO8csc/s1600/1.jpg)
vs
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/04/vw_golf_gtd_580.jpg)
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^Thats brilliant!!!! :D ;D
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I can't read this at the moment just waiting for the soot clouds to clear :laugh:
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Prefer GTD wheels (not by much) - Me too prefer the GTD wheels out of all seen
It'll cost equivalent of £80 a month more for a GTI on my mileage - Mine is more with the lease + BIK and mileage
Don't care it doesn't have a red stripe on the grille - Do not actually like the red through lights but if it was just grill I would love the Iconic nature.
Don't care it has split exhaust - Me neither! - Chromed twin exhausts look great
Prefer tartan seats without red accents - Prefer the lack of red in interior too, think it blends as classy but understated perfectly
Don't care about red stitching on gearstick, steering wheel and maybe seats - Same as above
Otherwise it is the same car with same equipment - Honestly prefer the GTD styling inside and out, the only loss is not being able to say GTI to anyone given how that name alone carries such esteem
Driving a 170 BHP I know the performance is great and expect better with greater BHP + Torque in GTD due to it being in a GTI suit.
The delivery of that torque is always a thrill :)
For this thread I would say go GTI as it is obviously an issue due to that iconic name and red stripe but I think at outcome of this we all going to be very happy and thrilled with purchase be it GTI or GTD as we getting a vehicle that combines genuine performance in perfect balance with all other things we seek in our day to day journeys.
Some will save real money and others will feel their benefit from some additional badge kudos and the occasional times the 'point' second performance makes a difference.
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Getting a bit sick and tired of people always assuming your buying diesel due to company car costs. For me it's purely down to the fact a gtd is cheaper to run than a gti. all this tosh about the gti being a true drivers car and gtd owners will miss out on the driving experience, what a load of old s4it. The gti will be a great car but so will the gtd in entirely different pleasurable ways.
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Tough choice :grin:
I think I prefer the GTi :laugh: :evil:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ebIaRysHKxo/TggPg1ftIYI/AAAAAAAAE20/nxndYtO8csc/s1600/1.jpg)
vs
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/04/vw_golf_gtd_580.jpg)
Genius! haha, ok forget all I have written it is GTI all the way *Hubba Hubba*
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Getting a bit sick and tired of people always assuming your buying diesel due to company car costs. For me it's purely down to the fact a gtd is cheaper to run than a gti. all this tosh about the gti being a true drivers car and gtd owners will miss out on the driving experience, what a load of old s4it. The gti will be a great car but so will the gtd in entirely different pleasurable ways.
The vibrations?? :-X
Sorry, couldn't resist! >:D
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Getting a bit sick and tired of people always assuming your buying diesel due to company car costs. For me it's purely down to the fact a gtd is cheaper to run than a gti. all this tosh about the gti being a true drivers car and gtd owners will miss out on the driving experience, what a load of old s4it. The gti will be a great car but so will the gtd in entirely different pleasurable ways.
The vibrations?? :-X
Sorry, couldn't resist! >:D
:grin: :grin:
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Tough choice :grin:
I think I prefer the GTi :laugh: :evil:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ebIaRysHKxo/TggPg1ftIYI/AAAAAAAAE20/nxndYtO8csc/s1600/1.jpg)
vs
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/04/vw_golf_gtd_580.jpg)
As we're always being told, the GTDs are dirtier! :evil: :whistle: :laugh: :laugh:
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GTI forum
Don't see diesel cars on other comparable hot hatch forums?
VW Golf R
Ford RS or ST
Vauxhall VXR
Renault RS
Just saying................ :laugh:
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Getting a bit sick and tired of people always assuming your buying diesel due to company car costs. For me it's purely down to the fact a gtd is cheaper to run than a gti. all this tosh about the gti being a true drivers car and gtd owners will miss out on the driving experience, what a load of old s4it. The gti will be a great car but so will the gtd in entirely different pleasurable ways.
Just stated in recent post that prefer the GTD inside and out for styling the only red I would maybe miss is on the grill. And as drive a 170BHP presently know the performance potential of a 184BHP being in exact same suit as the GTI - The torque never ceases to thrill me as power is delivered.
Think the biggest issue is one letter I as GTI is such an iconic name to point to it infects the mind! - If get beyond that the GTD in regular day to day use will be an immense car to drive - Look at latest reviews just posted in GTD as think they get the GTD fully.
I think those of us in 170BHP have a huge advantage as we know what is coming + more in performance in combo with the new MK7 improvements for GTI :) :)
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Getting a bit sick and tired of people always assuming your buying diesel due to company car costs. For me it's purely down to the fact a gtd is cheaper to run than a gti. all this tosh about the gti being a true drivers car and gtd owners will miss out on the driving experience, what a load of old s4it. The gti will be a great car but so will the gtd in entirely different pleasurable ways.
Just stated in recent post that prefer the GTD inside and out for styling the only red I would maybe miss is on the grill. And as drive a 170BHP presently know the performance potential of a 184BHP being in exact same suit as the GTI - The torque never ceases to thrill me as power is delivered.
Think the biggest issue is one letter I as GTI is such an iconic name to point to it infects the mind! - If get beyond that the GTD in regular day to day use will be an immense car to drive - Look at latest reviews just posted in GTD as think they get the GTD fully.
I think those of us in 170BHP have a huge advantage as we know what is coming + more in performance in combo with the new MK7 improvements for GTI :) :)
:smug: :grin: :smug:
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GTI forum
Don't see diesel cars on other comparable hot hatch forums?
VW Golf R
Ford RS or ST
Vauxhall VXR
Renault RS
Just saying................ :laugh:
That's because their hottest diesels in the range aren't anywhere near as hot as a GTD. What's the hottest Ford diesel? Vauxhall comes closest to it's closest to it's petrol stablemate with the biturbo CDTI - and that isn't equipped to the same spec as a VXR.
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The torque argument doesn't really apply now with modern turbo petrol engines, the torque output is now pretty much the same as the diesels.
The new MK7 GTI has the same torque output as the MK6 GTD except in the GTI it comes in 500 RPM earlier.
I always found the low down pull in the diesel lacking until the turbo came on.
That's what I like about the GTI, it is so flexible in any gear, you can pootle along at 30mph in sixth and it will pull all the way to 150 :evil:
If you are only doing 10-12K a year it's a no brainer, GTI FTW
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Those pics made me :grin:
Btw, if you're only doing 10k miles you need to take into account the air particulate thingy on diesels - which will need replacing and is expensive.
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Btw, if you're only doing 10k miles you need to take into account the air particulate thingy on diesels - which will need replacing and is expensive.
That's true but that's if he's only doing short trips as opposed to low annual miles.
Although in saying that I only every do relatively short trips and never had any bother with the DPF in 5 years of derv ownership.
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Those pics made me :grin:
Btw, if you're only doing 10k miles you need to take into account the air particulate thingy on diesels - which will need replacing and is expensive.
They're good for upwards of 150k miles on the 170TDI unit before they fill. Take into account 20% economy gains for the GTD and they should be good for 180k miles. Anyone who does less than 8 miles per trip on average is asking for trouble with a DPF equipped diesel, but on my 12 mile commute plus leisure miles I have never had regen issues with a TDI, save for teething troubles on the original 170 PD unit in my MK5 Golf prior to warranty remap. Someone on another forum is whining about constant DPF regens and poor economy in his MK7 1.6TDI, yet does lots of 4 mile trips - no surprise there.
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For me, another key factor for choosing a GTI over a GTD has to be the engine note. I'm afraid no diesel (even the winning Audi R18 at Le Mans) has yet come close to replicating the fantastic sound of a high-revving petrol engine :cool:
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Hey Chaps,
Just reading through your feedback. Sheesh! What a polarising effect this is having :huh:
Thanks.... I think you're helping :wink:
I really, really don't want this to turn into a Derv vs Petrol debate, that's not what I intended.
Let me be clear, right from the outset I love the GTD package. Period. VW have brought it so close to the GTI in terms of styling that they are almost as one.
As I said I've always longed for a GTI, that might be silly but its true. So, after what happened today my head is all over the shop. My heart says GTI but then my head says stick with the GTD.
Gonna have to sleep on this one and contact my dealer early tomorrow morning to see if he'll even get close to the discount he gave me on the GTD.
You know what curiosity did to the cat :laugh: Why oh why oh why did I go into the dealers today?
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If you are only doing 10-12K a year it's a no brainer, GTI FTW
I'd strongly disagree with that statement - 20% lower 3 year running costs with even only 10k miles pa (depreciation, fuel, tax, initial purchase), for essentially the same car is not to be sniffed at. Only noticeable losses in comparison are off the line initial pace (my boy racer traffic light duelling days are long behind me) and subtle styling differences which are debateable as to preference. In the legal(ish) overtaking range of 40-80mph there won't be a hell of a lot between the 2 cars, especially on an incline.
For me, a grand a year would be better spent elsewhere for the negligible shortfalls of GTD vs GTI. If the GTI was a real cut above in visuals and equipment, i'd probably pay the extra and get the GTI, but there really is little in it everyday unless you need the red embellishments everywhere to remind yourself you are in a GTI (unless you still enjoy eyeballing that Fiesta ST at the lights and then screaming away when they turn green).
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Hawaii: Your predicament is quite interesting in that you aren't strongly aligned with either petrol or diesel. For someone who doesn't drive a high output diesel, I can see how they could keep dissing the GTD, if their last memory of diesel was that sh!tty 90bhp astra diesel they rented on holiday 10 years ago.
It all depends on what you'd rather be doing with that extra grand a year the GTI will cost you. If you are one of those people who worship their car and clean it 3 times a week then it could be money well spent. For me, the only golf i'd rather have than a GTD would be a biturbo 225ps beast that still did 60mpg and held it's value as well as a GTD.
How much do you obsess over your car? If the answer is "a lot" then go for the GTI.
As much as I like the Golf, there are other cars I like as much that I would not buy because they don't seem good value for money due to their poor residuals. The choice for me comes down to the GTD being better value for money - just me being very sensible with my money (not so sensible I eant to drive a £6k Peugeot 107 - I want to have some fun and refinement!).
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I think you've already made your mind up Hawaii :wink:
You won't regret it, not for a second.
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If you can afford it go for the GTI. That's not being biased, you do not want to have a car for three years and every single morning you wake up to it have regrets that you didn't get the one you really wanted - it's that simple.
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I may regret it if I don't
That line says it all for me mate.
I've been and done the whole 4+ (probably like 7) years of driving a petrol car I absolutely loved and so glad I plucked up the courage to get the one I truly wanted and enjoyed every minute of it. When the time eventually come to change I thought, ok time to be somewhat sensible now. I looked a really nice car I wanted, then looked at its diesel equivalent.
For me swapping to a diesel equivalent of a car I really wanted was a mistake (absolutely nothing wrong with diesels though!) It just wasn't... "me".. I looked at the tax, the running costs, the insurance etc and all that pointed the diesel to be the more logical decision, however for me that enjoyment just isn't there for me.
I've done the "should I, shouldn't I" twice now.. First time I stumped up that little extra and got the petrol one I really wanted. The second time having had that enjoyment I thought I'd got it out my system and went for the diesel version and I personally wish I hadn't. I'm not sure it ever goes out of your system :laugh:
Even though its bugged me ever since and I've regretted it (again, nothing wrong with the diesel) that feeling of... regret has never gone away for me. The Plus for me now, is that its led me to this new GTI and so the decision for that over the GTD was easy for me, although both great cars.
What I considered to be the key points / bonus' for me with the new Mk 7 GTI is that...
The tax is like £125 UK now? That is lower than most other cars I like, most of those are £180+ and others much higher, high £250 / low 300 I think with recent changes? Yes its not as low as a diesel, but would you swap the difference for the enjoyment / feeling you get of getting the car you really want? :smiley:
Insurance different for me between GTD and GTI is like £20
GTI has higher running costs yes, but again its still better than many other cars I would look at. I will also get that enjoyment I don't feel I'd get if I didn't go for the model I truly wanted (regardless of engine). I personally don't mind the extra trip or so to the pumps for feeling I get and the sound of the exhaust alone :laugh:
Obviously your decision to make, not sure if this input helps. A big longer wait might be a bit of a pig, but it would be worth it. However I've only been waiting 5 weeks so far and each day feels like a week, its painful lol :laugh:
I'd say don't live with regret, some things happen for a reason, maybe your trip to the dealer was just meant to happen? :cool:
Good luck with whatever you decide :smiley:
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Using these online comparison things you will never get back in money terms what you shell out for the petrol no matter how many miles you do or don't do. The simple fact is the gti costs more from the outset and is more to tax and fuel, money wise its a simple choice. Just depends if you can stomach the extra costs or not. if it wasn't purely economics I would have ordered the gti.... maybe :tongue:
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I would leave it to fate. Contact your dealer, ask them to let you know if any GTI's become available sooner (cancellations or what not). But keep your GTD on order.
That's what I am doing. I will be happy with either TBH.
The only thing is uncertainty, I like to drive my cars hard and fast and the GTD will let me do that without getting insane MPG, but the GTI may be a different story. Maybe 25MPG if pushed all the time? (Maybe people could confirm this)?
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I would leave it to fate. Contact your dealer, ask them to let you know if any GTI's become available sooner (cancellations or what not). But keep your GTD on order.
That's what I am doing. I will be happy with either TBH.
The only thing is uncertainty, I like to drive my cars hard and fast and the GTD will let me do that without getting insane MPG, but the GTI may be a different story. Maybe 25MPG if pushed all the time? (Maybe people could confirm this)?
I can't remember with the mk5, but with my mk6 GTI I too used to drive it hard and fast, and I used to get c.33-35 mpg. You can add on 5 for the mk7 - I will take around 40, that's phenomenal from this type of car!
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VW make it an easier decision than it otherwise would've been, seeing as the GTI and GTD are exactly the same, save for alternative engine and red accents or silver/grey accents and different wheels which are equally as good as each other. If the GTD had some huge aesthetical differences or lacked certain pieces of equipment then it would've been a GTI for me. I dare say even omission of Xenons on the GTD would've pushed me towards a GTI.
Are you hung up on the "GTI" tag? The GTI hasn't been a monster on the roads since MK2 (everyone caught up in the power stakes after that point) - it has become the refined cruiser with grunt that everyone says the GTD is (and I don't deny that the GTD is exactly that). The GTI is so well composed now that you'll be hard pushed to get any boy racer thrills from it off the track unless you like risking your license in a big way. They are 2 sides of the same coin, with very little difference between them in every day use, and because of that i'm not yearning for a GTI and settling for a GTD, the GTD is my solid preference.
If you're a speed freak then GTI is a compromise in itself, albeit a smart compromise over a Golf R/S3/135i/Leon Cupra/Focus ST etc, to save yourself a decent wedge of money (in either list price or depreciation). The MK4 GTI became a trim level, and MK5 did a lot to reverse that, but VW has allowed the GTI to drop down from top tier hot hatches (in output) whilst maintaining it's higher than average refinement and premium feel.
The GTI badge is different things to different people. For some it is a well specced package for a hot (but not white hot) hatch giving relatively good value for money, for others it is about the badge, and they'd have bought one for the badge alone even if it was poorly equipped as standard. If you are undecided you have to ask yourself honestly what you're more bothered about - having a GTI or having nigh on the same car for 20% less in cost of ownership over 3 years.
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Too much time between ordering and collection makes for a lot of procrastination. I have already changed my colour (to the detriment of my place in the queue at the local dealership), pondered a good few options in the meantime.
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The GTD is a great car no doubt, but it's not the same car as the GTI. You can argue over which is better, which saves you money etc etc but saying that they're the same car bar the GTI's higher running costs is simply not true.
I'm not saying this to put down the GTD - far from it as its a great car - I just simply don't agree that the two cars are the same bar 20% higher running costs over 3 years. :smiley:
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Heck some very strong opinions flying around. All good :smiley:
I've slept on this and still haven't come to a firm decision yet. I thought I would but I haven't.
Monkeyhanger has offered the strongest case for sticking with the GTD. He also got me thinking about costs, so I put together a table so you can see the "actual" running costs and savings, which are pretty significant and can't be ignored.
(http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w565/Gary_Monkey/Comparative_costs_zpsa7962c56.jpg)
I think Monkeyhanger hit the nail on the head when saying there is too much time between order and delivery. Don't forget we're all early adopters buying the car blind. So the problem now is that dealer demo cars are arriving, we can go and look, we can go and test drive, all of which we couldn't do when placing orders late March/early April.
This is what has titled me off axis, muddied the waters and put a devil on my shoulder (GTI shaped).
I think the next thing to do is ping an email over to my dealer and just ask about the possibility of changing. Will let you know.
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Great table, very clear, I like.
You've put a number on the running costs. However, it is much harder (i.e. not possible) to put a number on factors like fun, desirability, satisfaction... I'm not even suggesting the GTI might be better than the GTD in these factors, it might be worse! Both are seriously awesome cars. I guess what I'm saying is to be careful when just looking at the numbers here. If we did that we'd all be driving BlueMotion polos or something!
The nerd in my is looking forward to tracking my running costs when I get my GTI and making some pretty graphs. Then we'll see how much it really costs!
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And remember, for the GTI its smiles per gallon.
And you don't have to explain to people its a GTI with a diesel engine and get funny looks in return....
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You might find it easier to get a good discount on a GTI than a GTD.
GTDs outsell GTIs by 2:1 or even 3:1 in the UK according to some of the reviews. Higher residuals on the GTD too also point to the supposition that they are more in demand on the used market than the GTI even though there are at least twice as many out there to choose from.
With that in mind, I do think that after the initial surge of early adopters the dealers will be filling their allocation of GTD orders a lot easier than their allocation of GTI orders, which could pave the way for better GTI discounts than GTD discounts in the near future. Of course some people have already got discounts of 10% (and more, assuming it hasn't been to the detriment of their p/x worth) - it generally doesn't get much better than that for a Golf even when the model is well established, so some dealerships do seem to be having a hard time of it already in the current economic climate.
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Just order the bloody GTI...if you have a bucket list and the GTI is on it, just flamin' do it. Life's short and it still kicks you when your down so get on and do what makes you happy.
Dear Mrs/Miss/Mr Dealer I would like to change my order to a GTI in the colour of hell please!
I've typed the email for you now just copy, paste, send!
:laugh:
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I would like to change my order to a GTI in the colour of hell please!
Technically its the colour of evil... I'm unsure if the colour of hell is considered certain. Or if it has a colour for that matter. I'm tempted to go with black on the assumption that "outer darkness" appears to be black.
Nice email though! heh heh
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Heck some very strong opinions flying around. All good :smiley:
I've slept on this and still haven't come to a firm decision yet. I thought I would but I haven't.
Monkeyhanger has offered the strongest case for sticking with the GTD. He also got me thinking about costs, so I put together a table so you can see the "actual" running costs and savings, which are pretty significant and can't be ignored.
(http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w565/Gary_Monkey/Comparative_costs_zpsa7962c56.jpg)
I think Monkeyhanger hit the nail on the head when saying there is too much time between order and delivery. Don't forget we're all early adopters buying the car blind. So the problem now is that dealer demo cars are arriving, we can go and look, we can go and test drive, all of which we couldn't do when placing orders late March/early April.
This is what has titled me off axis, muddied the waters and put a devil on my shoulder (GTI shaped).
I think the next thing to do is ping an email over to my dealer and just ask about the possibility of changing. Will let you know.
The fact that after all the analysis your still going to contact your dealer to see if you can change makes the table irrelevant. You should just change even if it delays your order
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GTDs outsell GTIs by 2:1 or even 3:1 in the UK according to some of the reviews. Higher residuals on the GTD too also point to the supposition that they are more in demand on the used market than the GTI even though there are at least twice as many out there to choose from.
The vast majority of these will be fleet sales.
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Hawaii: Try ringing around the dealers with known proper UK (non-demo) spec GTIs in stock. If they've had them a week or so and haven't sold them yet then i'd say there is a deal to be done.
You've also got to ask yourself why they've been able to order them in with no allocated buyer when they have such a meagre periodic allocation - lack of interest? Again a reason to get a decent deal brokered - they are in the business of selling cars, not letting them gather dust.
The dealers around me have had no bother filling their allocation of GTDs for paying customers, but they seem to be all getting in "spare" GTIs right now (GTD popularity could be a regional thing).
With some of the early arrival GTDs on their way, we know they're available at approx the same time as genuine proper spec GTIs, yet the dealerships aren't getting any of those in as unsold "spare" orders or as demos right now and VW still can't keep up.
Worst thing about starting from scratch if you've got a high value p/x is getting it revalued for the new deal - could cost you a fair sized chunk of money - the equity in my Scirocco will have gone up £1700 between point of ordering and estimated collection, it would pain me to renegotiate now unless extra savings off the new deal negated any equity losses.
We're getting towards the end of the month now and there are sales targets to meet - you might just find that someone is willing to do a great deal on a GTI that is here now and unsold.
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GTDs outsell GTIs by 2:1 or even 3:1 in the UK according to some of the reviews. Higher residuals on the GTD too also point to the supposition that they are more in demand on the used market than the GTI even though there are at least twice as many out there to choose from.
The vast majority of these will be fleet sales.
The residual differences (from GFV figures of 56% GTD and 51% GTI) speak for themselves - VW UK expects the GTD to hold more value than the GTI for one reason alone - demand in the second hand market. Doesn't matter where the sales are coming from, more people will want a GTD than GTI down the line according to the figures VW are setting their GFV on.
Golf is not a big fleet car, GTD occupies an even smaller segment. Most companies would have you sat in a bog standard SE TDI. Can't see that many of them going to fleet (proportionally).
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Without wishing to offend anyone, it all comes down to this simple statement:
The GTD is not a GTI - simples :smiley:
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It just depends what you enjoy in a car.
I drove the MK6 GTD/GTI back to back and i was happy enough to leave the GTD keys back but I wanted to take the GTI home.
If it cost more after three years I couldn't care less, it was the car I wanted. :evil:
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If GTI is less popular than GTD in sales (as it would appear to be from reasoning previously stated), it makes sense to press harder for a discount if they can't get them sold as easily - Hawaii could really capitalise on it if he's made him mind up about a GTI.
Just hoping to help save Hawaii some cash if he does switch. Always bodes well to go into negotiation prepared.
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If GTI is less popular than GTD
Sounds to me like you have spent a hell of a lot of time and effort in this thread convincing yourself of this. Buyer remorse? Secret GTI fancier? I think so.
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If GTI is less popular than GTD
Sounds to me like you have spent a hell of a lot of time and effort in this thread convincing yourself of this. Buyer remorse? Secret GTI fancier? I think so.
Nope, just helping someone consider all of the pros and cons - singularly they are nowt, but accumulatively they are significant. It's easy to be looking at the GTI right now after ordering the GTD as there are only GTIs to look at in the showroom right now and I can take a look knowing that it looks the part and I can visualise my GTD looking the same except for the red embellishments that I really don't care for.
I will get as much enjoyment from a GTD as I would a GTI, the everyday driving experience on UK roads will be largely the same as I don't partake in traffic light drag races but do like the overtaking ability that both cars have.
I currently enjoy my 170TDI Scirocco (I had a test drive in a 2.0TSI before I bought it and was not fussed for the extra performance vs running costs, and the GTD is closer to the GTI than the 170TDI was to the 2.0TSI Scirocco) and an extra 14PS can only add to that enjoyment.
I like visiting the pumps twice a month rather than once a week - it'll pay for an extra week's holiday somewhere nice.
If VW wanted the GTI to really stand out, they wouldn't have made the GTD to the same spec.
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I neither feel like the GTD is 'as good as the GTI, only cheaper', nor that the GTD should be 'looked down on by the GTI'. They are different, but both are awesome cars.
I guess I think there is more to it than the mathematics of the economy or the idea that of how much fun the car is or isn't. I'm not managing to fill this post with much substance though... :embarrassed:
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I'm really getting into this avoiding a sh!tty task at work! :tongue:
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If VW wanted the GTI to really stand out, they wouldn't have made the GTD to the same spec.
Here's the thing... For me, GTI does stand out. It's a GTI. The GTD isn't. It might look very similar, but with a chunky diesel engine, and a focus on economy, it's clearly aimed at company car owners, motorway cruisers, and those who value saving a few hundred a year.
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I'm really getting into this avoiding a sh!tty task at work! :tongue:
Ditto.
I'm going to wade on in and agree with the bear. I really don't look at these as the same sort of car.
The GTD is for those that want a powerful company car, hence the advantage of the lower emission diesel, or, they have a high millage and so the efficiency makes sense, or, you drive 'sensibly' most the time but want the grunt available to have fun but don't want to pay the higher running costs of the GTI, while being sensible.
You buy the GTI if you like to drive into the red line and generally hoon around, or you are in your 20's. If you hoon it everywhere I suspect the GTD isn't economical at all and so you might as well have the extra fizz of the GTi as the running cost difference would be marginal.
GTDs are for those who are just a bit more sensible (old). I bet no 'young laddy' buys a GTD with their own cash.
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I'm really getting into this avoiding a sh!tty task at work! :tongue:
Ditto.
I'm going to wade on in and agree with the bear. I really don't look at these as the same sort of car.
The GTD is for those that want a powerful company car, hence the advantage of the lower emission diesel, or, they have a high millage and so the efficiency makes sense, or, you drive 'sensibly' most the time but want the grunt available to have fun but don't want to pay the higher running costs of the GTI, while being sensible.
You buy the GTI if you like to drive into the red line and generally hoon around, or you are in your 20's. If you hoon it everywhere I suspect the GTD isn't economical at all and so you might as well have the extra fizz of the GTi as the running cost difference would be marginal.
GTDs are for those who are just a bit more sensible (old). I bet no 'young laddy' buys a GTD with their own cash.
Not necessarily Jim. I'm in my late 30's and to be honest never entered my mind to go for a GTD. I like to put my foot down now and again but on the whole I think that i drive fairly sensibly. I just like knowing that I have thay extra BHP available. Other subtle things I like are the split exhaust tail pipes at the back and im one of the few who actually like the red line at the front.
Other than that I bought the GTI because basically I love cars and that's what I like to spend my money on. :smiley: :smiley:
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If VW wanted the GTI to really stand out, they wouldn't have made the GTD to the same spec.
Here's the thing... For me, GTI does stand out. It's a GTI. The GTD isn't. It might look very similar, but with a chunky diesel engine, and a focus on economy, it's clearly aimed at company car owners, motorway cruisers, and those who value saving a few hundred a year.
It stands out to us, we know exactly what to be looking out for, but for the general public if they saw the side of one as it whizzed past? MK5 was the last proper stand out GTI, MK6 and MK7 have been far less stand out. Most of the general public probably wouldn't know that the Austins are the MK7 GTI wheel if they saw them.
VW have never been that brash in appearances, but they are far more subtle about it these days than they were and to the untrained eye, they probably wouldn't know a MK7 GTI from a GTD.
I was far more excited about my Scirocco when I got my first in 2009 - the number of people who would crane their necks for a look at it was unbelievable - never had a car with that much visual impact before. It's just a pity it has fallen behind in engine tech and equipment (which looks very meagre next to the MK7 GTI/GTD). Given the disappointing waiting time, i've never fely less enthusiastic about an impending new car. Hopefully seeing my dad's shiny new GTD at the weekend (ships willing) will restore my enthusiasm. Maybe it's because I already know what to expect with VAG cars sharing so much under the skin.
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Without wishing to offend anyone, it all comes down to this simple statement:
The GTD is not a GTI - simples :smiley:
and never will be, VW should have called it the Golf Sport D..............but then they would not sell very many. It annoys me quite frankly that they have mimicked the 'often copied, never equalled' GTI :smiley:
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You buy the GTI if you like to drive into the red line and generally hoon around, or you are in your 20's. If you hoon it everywhere I suspect the GTD isn't economical at all and so you might as well have the extra fizz of the GTi as the running cost difference would be marginal.
GTDs are for those who are just a bit more sensible (old). I bet no 'young laddy' buys a GTD with their own cash.
I've just turned 40...buying a GTI. Why? It looks nicer, it's faster, petrol drives smoother than diesel, and at less than 10,000 miles a year, the cost savings are insignificant when you take into account depreciation. I don't hoon around in my current Mk5, and I won't in this Mk7. As a car it does all I want and need of it - age has nothing to do with it!
It stands out to us, we know exactly what to be looking out for, but for the general public if they saw the side of one as it whizzed past? MK5 was the last proper stand out GTI, MK6 and MK7 have been far less stand out. Most of the general public probably wouldn't know that the Austins are the MK7 GTI wheel if they saw them.
Right, but I'm not buying my car for the general public, I'm buying it for me! If I was interested in driving around in an attention-magnet, I'd get something far more flashy and in a garish colour. As it stands, I love the understated and under-appreciated looks!
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I think folks have got wrong end of the stick here with the age comment. I was trying to say that the GTD is a more sensible choice, while the GTI is chosen more often with the heart for the love of the car.
I haven't seen many comments saying 'I LOVE the GTD because its economical'
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I think folks have got wrong end of the stick here with the age comment. I was trying to say that the GTD is a more sensible choice, while the GTI is chosen more often with the heart for the love of the car.
I haven't seen many comments saying 'I LOVE the GTD because its economical'
Well I love the GTD for its power to economy ratio, as well as it's torque, but if I valued economy that much i'd be in a 1.6TDI match looking all miserable (except when I fill up). :rolleyes:
I would've been more tempted by a GTI when I was 22, but couldn't possibly have afforded one (had an old Saab 900 turbo which was quicker than most but still seemingly sensible).
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Difficult one for me and I'm hardly a spring chicken.
The GTD is the girl who you'd take home to mum, the nice smart girl who isn't going to be want want want, who will hold down a steady sensible job and be nice and polite and not pick fights. But she's still smart and sassy and is going to keep your fires alive.
The GTI PP is her slightly wayward twin. She's the one who will steal your heart with the twinkle in her eye despite the fact you know it's all a bit wrong really.
Now, if you could get the PP on the GTD then it'd be a different story and it'd be her every time. Strap on a tuning box and go off and have cheap dirty fun for the rest of your days together!!
Something like that anyway :kiss:
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If VW wanted the GTI to really stand out, they wouldn't have made the GTD to the same spec.
Here's the thing... For me, GTI does stand out. It's a GTI. The GTD isn't. It might look very similar, but with a chunky diesel engine, and a focus on economy, it's clearly aimed at company car owners, motorway cruisers, and those who value saving a few hundred a year.
I agree totally with Gryzor. Sorry, but the GTI is a different animal to the GTD.
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So why do the GTi people keep slagging the GTD off? They are different cars for different people. You want a GTi so you buy a GTi. You want the GTD you buy the GTD. They do different things but are essentially the same DNA no matter what you think.
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I don't think the GTI boys are slagging the GTD... well, I'm not!
I think the GTD is an awesome car and I've said so a couple of times. Its like the brother to the GTI. They're different at what they do and what they are good at, but both of them are great machines.
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Wow, what a great thread you started Hawaii-Five-O :smiley:
Cars being so personal it's great to see everyone's passion about their GTI/GTD's (I guess that's why we are all here)
I'm not sure anyone yet has included the additional benefits of when we remap the GTD?
Anyway, for me, it annoyed me that when travelling in traffic my TSI, I knew the person in front in their diesel was probably getting double the mpg but travelling at the same speed.
Also, I find not many people drive their cars (and I love the diesel torque when over taking) so not many will be overtaking my GTD :grin:
It's been a while since I was young enough to enjoy a green light race TBH :cry:
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I think folks have got wrong end of the stick here with the age comment. I was trying to say that the GTD is a more sensible choice, while the GTI is chosen more often with the heart for the love of the car.
I haven't seen many comments saying 'I LOVE the GTD because its economical'
I agree, the GTI was a heart-over-head decision for me with my Mk5, and again with the Mk7. But, what is "sensible" about the GTD other than its economy? Yes it has more torque, but the GTI isn't lacking there, and in a motorway overtaking battle, GTI owners only need to downshift and they have that torque available over a wider rev range. At the lights, GTI beats GTD every day of the week, but costs a bit more in fuel for the privilege! Honestly, I think the GTD is a fantastic car for what it represents and offers. Just baffles my why a private buyer who does average mileage a year would choose it over the GTI given the initial purchase price and resultant relative loss in depreciation.
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Just baffles my why a private buyer who does average mileage a year would choose it over the GTI given the initial purchase price and resultant relative loss in depreciation.
It's not a matter of a couple of hundred quid between the GTI and GTD, it's £3k over 3 years or 20% of the 3 year cost of ownership to do 99% of what a GTI can do on a public highway without risking the wrath of the bobbies. For those that dote on their cars the GTI might be money well spent.
Everytime I buy another VW I stretch what I am prepared to pay for car ownership (they have done the sensible thing with the MK7 by not increasing the prices significantly again - they were almost in Audi territory).
It's great to have a nice car, but not to the detriment of having enough money to do the other things I enjoy doing besides driving. GTI ownership would cost me as much as my mortgage and I can get nigh on the same everyday experience in a GTD for a grand a year less. It is purely head over heart. I have the money to run a GTI but would get more enjoyment spending the difference elsewhere than for the marginal gains.
My neighbour has a Scirocco R. He has a great car, and no life. It rapes his wallet on a monthly basis, costs him about £200 a month more than mine costs me (fuel economy half of what mine is, insurance and shocking depreciation as they're barely worth more than the standard 2.0TSI/210ps GT on the used market) and he earns less. He's always too skint to go down the pub or on holiday, but he seems happy enough with the situation he has put himself in. You've got to decide what's important to you with the money you've got. My car isn't my world, but I do enjoy having one I consider to be very good.
The GTI badge means a lot less than it used to. It's not the best/fastest Golf VW do, it's not even that fast against it's competition (when you are splitting hairs about 0.whatever of a second). it's a trim level (and a high one at that). It's so refined now that it isn't that thrilling a ride, it is very clinical and safe unless you are able to put it through it's paces at a track (I wouldn't be pushing any car of mine to it's limits on a track - have you seen the price of 18" tyres? :tongue:).
I liken it to rollercoasters. Those well built and shiny ones at Alton towers aren't nearly as scary as those rickety old and badley maintained ones you see at dilapidated seaside towns that go 1/2 as fast.
Pick a GTD with your head, pick a GTI if badge kudos and moderately greater power/dislike of Diesel are more important to you. The performance penalty on a GTD is very small in everyday use, for me the GTD gives more bang for my buck. Not everyone buying a GTD is wishing they had a GTI.
I'm sure almost everyone will be pleased with whatever they pick, it is the undecided that have the most to lose - I think most here have ordered the car they want (for a variety of reasons) and if VW did mmore to deliver them then they'd spend less time wondering (should I add ACC, should I change colour etc). Once you're behind the wheel hopefully you'll be happy enough with what you ended up with (apart from that windscreen wiper smear pissing you off no matter what MK7 Golf model you are in).
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It's not a matter of a couple of hundred quid between the GTI and GTD, it's £3k over 3 years or 20% of the 3 year cost of ownership to do 99% of what a GTI can do on a public highway without risking the wrath of the bobbies.
Both my speeding tickets from years ago were done in a mk4 GTI ie. i could run faster - my point being its irrelevant what car you are driving, you can still exceed the speed limit and get caught.
All your comments regarding money are fair do's - I totally agree that you shouldn't overstretch yourself to the detriment of the rest of your life - having a nice car but not being able to run it/do other things is pointless.
What I don't agree with is the above - the GTD cannot do 99% of what a GTI can do - that is simply not true!! :smiley:
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Fine words monkeyhanger, but it's £3k over 3 years on top of several thousand a year in depreciation... Yes I appreciate that we all have budgets and limits, and we all buy our cars for different reasons. Me buying a GTI isn't about badge kudos at all. It's precisely because it's refined and clinical. I prefer driving petrols vs diesels, and prefer the looks of the GTI over the GTD, as subtle as they might be!
Personally, if finances were a key concern I'd be waiting 6 months to a year, and buying a used car, sacrificing choice of spec maybe, but saving a bunch of money. That changes everything, but yes, if you want a new car, this is the price of entry!
A mate of mine got a speeding ticket in a Fiat Panda...what does that have to do with anything?! The GTD is no slouch, and will attract just as much attention as it basically looks like a GTI from a distance.
I do agree that I'm sure we'll all be happy with whatever we have chosen! :)
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Aww, I really hope we're not gonna have a them and us diesel and petrol thing! I really like the way on this forum the GTI and GTD fans support each other.
Anyway, I don't think MH was suggesting you are more or less likely to get a ticket in a faster car. I think he was just pointing out that if you restrict your speeds to the limits of the road, then the difference between the GTD and GTI is similarly reduced. Its a fair point, though I doubt anyone thinks its a point worth considering when they buy the car. At least not anyone who is considering a GTI or GTD!
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Aww, I really hope we're not gonna have a them and us diesel and petrol thing! I really like the way on this forum the GTI and GTD fans support each other.
Anyway, I don't think MH was suggesting you are more or less likely to get a ticket in a faster car. I think he was just pointing out that if you restrict your speeds to the limits of the road, then the difference between the GTD and GTI is similarly reduced. Its a fair point, though I doubt anyone thinks its a point worth considering when they buy the car. At least not anyone who is considering a GTI or GTD!
Bill you got my point exactly as I intended it.
On the roads and not on the track the performance differences are negligible.
Either way i'll have to watch myself for the forseeable - I sent back an NIP to identify myself as the driver for a speeding offence just last week (what will be my first ever points! :whistle:).
Unless I had a massive pay increase or the economy gap narrowed (ACT 2.0TSI? I'd consider a 55mpg GTI) or the fuel price gap opened right up (never going to happen whilst goods vehicles and cars have access to the exact same diesel) I probably wouldn't switch from a high performance Diesel - they're so good these days.
How I spend my money (without regret) makes perfect sense to me and VW nearly new prices are exactly why I buy new. 6 month old GTI? It'll be for sale at a higher pricepoint than I could negotiate a new one for. Buying nearly new on a Golf rarely makes sense with dealership used prices. If I didn't like VWs so much i'd probably be buying a 2 year old 320d coupe. You can't beat the feeling of a new car, knowing that no-one else has pissed about with it (except maybe the dockside worker that unloaded it!).
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Unfortunately Bill it has already become a them and us argument not just on this forum but others aswell. Monkeyhangers comments are 100% spot on. The GTD will do 99% of what the GTI does no matter what the GTI boys like to think. VW have made it that way in that the only real difference is the engine and thats what probably annoys the die hard gti fans. Its a car at the end of the day so does it really matter?
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Think I'll call my dealer, I need to change my order to a GTD.
:grin:
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Them and us, it happens. Give it a year and there'll be some prospective new "R" owners (once it's announced) dissing the GTI and telling us that the R is the only true hot hatch Golf. Seen it all before in the Scirocco forums. Things will settle down when everyone has their cars and are happy with them.
I think the people with the most regret in getting a GTD over a GTI are the ones forced into it by company car rules or tax implications (what are you moaning about? I had to buy mine! :tongue: :laugh:).
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Unfortunately Bill it has already become a them and us argument not just on this forum but others aswell. Monkeyhangers comments are 100% spot on. The GTD will do 99% of what the GTI does no matter what the GTI boys like to think. VW have made it that way in that the only real difference is the engine and thats what probably annoys the die hard gti fans. Its a car at the end of the day so does it really matter?
I'm certainly not annoyed by how good they've made the GTD. And I certainly aren't advocating a petrol vs diesel debate as its been done before to death. You like what you like, and you buy what you buy. But statements like the GTD does 99% of what the GTI does smacks of GTD buyers trying to make that car something its not - ie. a GTI. That's a fact I'm afraid.
But its all good, everyone has their own reasons for buying different cars and that's what makes the world go round. :smiley:
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I've owned both. A MK5 GTI and a MK6 GTD.
The GTD is a very very good car, I've been very happy with it. But I miss my old mk5 GTI! The GTD just doesn't have the same fizz about it, as hard as it is to fault. For instance, i hated the diesel clatter out of it on the cold mornings, a small thing, but irritating to me and a loud reminder I was in a diesel! So, I'm going back to petrol and a GTI with the MK7.
The 2 cars are not "99% the same", nowhere near it. Just IMO.
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I have driven these cars back to back and if the GTD does 99% of what the GTI does I must have missed that bit.
Down the same test route, down a twisty B road with a few long straights, I found the GTD quite boring. If you spend your life on the motorway then there probably isn't much difference. I am rarely on a motorway.
If the GTD had driven the same as the GTI down the same route, sounded similar and gave me the same enjoyment then I would have bought it but it didn't come close so it was an easy decision for me. :smiley:
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I agree, the GTD does not do 99% of what the GTI does. That is why I'm getting a GTI. :cool:
However, you could also say the GTI does not do 99% of what the GTD does. :wink: So it works both ways. One size doesn't fit all, so I hope we can recognise the greatness of both cars rather than point to the ways one is better than the other.
I feel like I'm sounding too "world peace" here :sick:... and I hate world peace! :evil:
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Unfortunately Bill it has already become a them and us argument not just on this forum but others aswell. Monkeyhangers comments are 100% spot on. The GTD will do 99% of what the GTI does no matter what the GTI boys like to think. VW have made it that way in that the only real difference is the engine and thats what probably annoys the die hard gti fans. Its a car at the end of the day so does it really matter?
I don't think it has become a "them and us" at all, it's just a bit of healthy banter to air our own opinions, which is what forms are for, right? Just because I disagree with somebody doesn't mean I think they are wrong! Where I do draw the line is at people calling out "GTI boys", because that's when it becomes less about the banter, and saying that the only real difference is the engine and that's what probably annoys us...eh?! I CHOSE petrol over diesel, and for the real differences, read the specs and look at the photos (or real cars if you are lucky enough!) The driving experience (i.e. the sound, the poise, the handling, the interior etc.) is not the same in a GTD relative to a GTI with a lighter, more powerful engine. On paper the maths might say they share 99% the same DNA, but that's the difference between a human and a monkey.
To be fair to myself though Bear, the comment that, "...99% of what a GTI can do on a public highway without risking the wrath of the bobbies", does somewhat imply that in a GTD you are somehow immune from the cops! Anyway, that's pedantic, because I agree that in everyday driving from A to B, any differences between GTI and GTD are negligible...but, also crucial to our purchase decision. If all we wanted was to get from A to B, and not care about what we drove, we wouldn't be on this forum in the first place.
At the end of the day, no, it doesn't matter, it's just a car. A car that costs upward of £30k with options, and purchased through hard work and an eye for something a bit special.
Oh and Bear, the "works both ways" post you made...spot on mate! ;)
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This is great, we haven't had a good argument like this since the DSG vs Manual threads :laugh:
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This is great, we haven't had a good argument like this since the DSG vs Manual threads :laugh:
Adds a bit of spice eh?! As for manual vs DSG...don't get me started! :grin:
Fact is, where there is choice, there is opinion, and where there are differing opinions, there will be debate. If forums didn't have this, we wouldn't have forums because they would be very dull places. Kept healthy and not personal, it's a good thing, although head over to some games console forums where Xbox v PlayStation is discussed...oh dear! :sick:
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This is great, we haven't had a good argument like this since the DSG vs Manual threads :laugh:
:grin: Ah, the good old days - I remember it got very heated when the mk6 GTI was coming out. Obviously the DSG Taxi GTI lot lost :laugh: :wink:
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This is great, we haven't had a good argument like this since the DSG vs Manual threads :laugh:
Don't forget the colours "white is common", "the GTI accents are lost on Tornado Red", "Limestone Grey is for gingers" etc.
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Don't forget the colours "white is common", "the GTI accents are lost on Tornado Red", "Limestone Grey is for gingers" etc.
Not to mention "5 door vs 3 door", "Basic Nav vs Pro Nav", and "PP vs non-PP" :grin: Having said that, now you mention it, a red car with red accents... ;)
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This is great, we haven't had a good argument like this since the DSG vs Manual threads :laugh:
"Limestone Grey is for gingers" etc.
:grin: :grin: :grin: Not heard that one before
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Yes. And the poor chap who mentioned mud flaps over in the adjacent thread got pasted!
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Yes. And the poor chap who mentioned mud flaps over in the adjacent thread got pasted!
I wanted the mudflaps too! And I disagreed with monkeyhanger on this thread. And I don't agree with DSG on a GTI. And I'm getting TR and not White. Plus my Nav is the standard and I think the Pro isn't worth the extra. And I'm getting the 19s which no one else likes.
I may be coming across as argumentative but I'm not I promise!! :laugh:
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And I'm getting the 19s which no one else likes.
We like them we just can't afford them. Or the tyres.
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And I'm getting the 19s which no one else likes.
We like them we just can't afford them. Or the tyres.
Me neither, but I'll worry about new tyres in 6 months when I've burned through them! :evil: :laugh:
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How is this helping me make my decision? Tsk
:wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:
Still not heard back from my dealer re: switching to a GTI.
Maybe he read my email and took a long walk off a short plank :laugh:
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We like them we just can't afford them. Or the tyres.
Speak for yourself! ;) I think they are "OK", not digging the additional black spokes in them, but genuinely much prefer the look of the 18s.
How is this helping me make my decision? Tsk
:wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:
Still not heard back from my dealer re: switching to a GTI.
Maybe he read my email and took a long walk off a short plank :laugh:
Devil on right shoulder: DO IT! :evil:
Angel on left shoulder: Agree with devil on right shoulder! ;)
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And I'm getting the 19s which no one else likes.
We like them we just can't afford them. Or the tyres.
Having the Panoramic Sunroof is a much better choice than the 19'' wheels.
Pure White, 5 door with sunroof is the ultimate looking mk 7 GTI :laugh:
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Pure White, 5 door with sunroof is the ultimate looking mk 7 GTI :laugh:
Except when the sunroof is open and you're on the outside of the car? :evil: heh heh... but I jest.
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Pure White, 5 door with sunroof is the ultimate looking mk 7 GTI :laugh:
Except when the sunroof is open and you're on the outside of the car? :evil: heh heh... but I jest.
When I look at my new GTI (a lot) i will make sure the sunroof is shut :laugh:
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I haven't read through all 10 pages of this thread, but whilst skim reading I did pick up on "always wanted one" and "iconic" etc. It sounds like you really need a Mk2 to give you what GTI's are (or were) all about.
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I also have skipped the 10 or so pages but just wanted to stir the pot slightly by suggesting that you all shouldn't rush into buying a GTi when the Edition 40 is just around the corner!
:-)
Just kidding!
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Having the Panoramic Sunroof is a much better choice than the 19'' wheels.
Pure White, 5 door with sunroof is the ultimate looking mk 7 GTI :laugh:
I think you meant to type the number '3' no? Just two keys to your left mate. Arguably the best Mark 7 GTI is the 3 door white :)
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Having the Panoramic Sunroof is a much better choice than the 19'' wheels.
Pure White, 5 door with sunroof is the ultimate looking mk 7 GTI :laugh:
I think you meant to type the number '3' no? Just two keys to your left mate. Arguably the best Mark 7 GTI is the 3 door white :)
My last to A3 have been 3 door and despite the increasing frustration of what a pain it is getting passengers in and out I still went 3 door for one have at present as really disliked the A3 in 5 door guise.
But genuinely think the MK7 and Golf in general carry the 5 door as well as any car out there in not ruining the cars lines and it was an easy selection to make.
As a regular carrier of passengers I am really looking forward to them having their own doors! and not hearing all the huffing puffing and moaning that endure at present and still having a quality looking car :)
That said I am at this moment assessing the MK5 market for a 3 door manual GTI to replace present Mini town run around when GTD arrives as wife will be driving GTD as much as me in a day and I am not driving that Mini about!! Love the MK5 3 Door GTI :)
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@mjh: 5 doors does ruin the A3. If I wanted 3 doors and not 5, the A3 would've been a serious contender when they gain access to the GTI and GTD engines, if their spartan equipment levels didn't put me off - the S-line interior is hard to beat - the GTI/GTD seats look pretty ordinary in comparison (apart from the cloth pattern).
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@mjh: 5 doors does ruin the A3. If I wanted 3 doors and not 5, the A3 would've been a serious contender when they gain access to the GTI and GTD engines, if their spartan equipment levels didn't put me off - the S-line interior is hard to beat - the GTI/GTD seats look pretty ordinary in comparison (apart from the cloth pattern).
It was a 150BHP S Line Sport back S Tronic with just Sat Nav at far more than paying now for this GTD.
As much as the 150BHP is getting good reviews and is even compared to 170BHP performance wise I was hanging on for the 184BHP appearing for A3 but to this day it is not here for UK market.
Having seen a white sport back in flesh last week I am so glad did not go for it as it looked far more an estate than the many Daytona looked at in showrooms.
So when add all the standard options (like the xenon as mine are like candles in comparison) on GTD that are selections on A3 the 184BHP and to me zero personal cost then it was a no contest and given reviews on GTI and particularly the Chris Harris video I feel very comfortable with choice made as think I have upgraded my experience all around.
I love my S Line interior it does ooze quality and do think the GTD is a little below in this aspect though think the seats will surprise me in how hold me in place and add in lumbar and heated aspect then more so.
My only real feeling of unknown is losing the Quattro but I was having to do that in A3 as wife wanted the STronic/DSG as a must have.
But the Quattro is heavy I can feel the weight of my A3 even though she is planted and on rails when I push her. So really not sure on losing Quattro as had it for nearly 6 years now so will just have to see how tangible the difference is? Thinking is lighter more agile but maybe have to be more careful in wet? not sure! we shall see.
Many here switching from previous versions of GTI/GTD so really have a good sense of what getting where till drive mine for a few months would I only really be able to tell against what was my rock solid Audi loyalty to this point.
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11 pages, Have you made your mind up yet Hawaii?? :tongue:
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Hawaii, I'd change if you feel that way:
I've always wanted a GTI ever since I was a kid (and at long last I'm grateful I can afford one)
This alone is reason enough!
It's iconic
Yup
I may regret it if I don't
Now you said it, you will
It's getting rave reviews as a brilliant all-rounder
It's largely why I'm getting it
Now seems like the right time
No time like the present!
I only do around 10-11k per year (so do I really need a diesel)
Same here, and no you don't
The GTD may not be as fun to drive as the GTI (GTD buyers please do not take offence)
I can say without even driving one that a GTD will not offer the same driving experience
Having driven a petrol Scirocco for 4 yrs, and love it, why go back to a diesel?
I love the smoothness of a petrol, hated any diesel I've had with its rattle and clatter
It only costs a bit more then the GTD
True
It will be a private purchase not company car
So no need to worry about the CO2
Tax and insurance isn't "that" much more year-on-year, and those who work out in detail how much more it actually costs you per year factoring in depreciation, I just say it's all relative. Fact is, both are expensive cars, and will cost thousands in depreciation. So, I can't justify that with my head - it has to be my heart, because both are bonkers purchases really!
Hope that helps! ;)
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Sometimes buying a car comes as much from the heart as from the head. If you aren't convinced in your heart that the GTD isn't the best choice and there's a little nagging doubt ("GTI! GTI!"), then get the GTI. You don't want to (finally) take delivery of your GTD only for you to be thinking "what could have been?", especially if you start to see GTIs on the road.
I used to have a Mark 5 GT TDI. One day I went for a test drive in an R56 Mini Cooper and ended up ordering one. A completely spontaneous decision (I was trying to recapture the days prior to my Golf when I had an R50 Cooper which I loved to bits). After I took delivery (three weeks later!) and started to drive it, I found myself missing my Golf and having doubts about the Mini. Sure, it was a nice enough car, but I missed the automatic gear box, the toys, the space, the power and so on. I was never happy with that car, and a variety of reliability problems and poor dealer service settled its fate. I went to a VW garage and ordered a GTD within 18 months of buying the Mini. And now I'm much happier - in heart and head.
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The GTD may not be as fun to drive as the GTI (GTD buyers please do not take offence)
I can say without even driving one that a GTD will not offer the same driving experience
Can I have the lottery numbers for saturday then seeing as though you have a crystal ball :whistle:
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The GTD may not be as fun to drive as the GTI (GTD buyers please do not take offence)
I can say without even driving one that a GTD will not offer the same driving experience
Can I have the lottery numbers for saturday then seeing as though you have a crystal ball :whistle:
Read the forums and comments from people who have driven both, and then ask youself if a nose-heavy 184HP diesel will accelerate, sound, feel, and drive the same as a lighter engined 220HP petrol.
Note that I simply said, "will not offer the same driving experience". I didn't say in which way either car would be better or worse, or to what relative capacity. If by some miracle they do offer the same (as in, identical) driving experience, I guess I'm the fool for spending more money on lesser economy and a few flashy red accents... :rolleyes:
No, this isn't a GTD vs GTI rant either! Like I've said, both are great cars, but the souls of them are quite different, if not in practicality, at least in other ways.
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Has anyone actually driven a mk7 gtd yet. no demos in the country at the minute so can't compare really. I'm not a gti hater and I wouldn't expect them to drive the same as they have different ways of delivering the power/torque. until a gtd is tested properly on British soil then we won't know for definite how it drives or handles. hope it's soon then if reviews are crap I've got time to switch to a gti :evil:
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No such thing as a GTI hater.
I've not heard of a single GTD in the country yet, monkey's dad's is due soon.
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Ages ago there was a post saying a dealer would have one within a week. I posted a link to it recently when someone asked. Not got time to find it again now but was on a thread that was created very recently.
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I really wouldn't get hung up on weights here 26kg difference? 7kg difference between a manual GTD and a DSG GTI - does DSG box ruin the handling on a GTI because it adds 19kg weight? I think not.
My Dad's GTD is confirmed on a ship to arrive in the UK tomorrow and the dealer is making arrangements to have it picked up from port of Tyne rather than wait for VWUK to have it picked up from the dealership.
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Our fleet dept had one arrive on Tuesday......it is a sold car but one of the first.
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I really wouldn't get hung up on weights here 26kg difference? 7kg difference between a manual GTD and a DSG GTI - does DSG box ruin the handling on a GTI because it adds 19kg weight? I think not.
Who's getting hung up on weights (and weight distribution if we are being pedantic)?! Sorry people, but just the way a diesel delivers its power means it will not drive the same as a GTi. That's fact, and does not mean the GTD will drive and handle crap...of course it will drive well.
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Our fleet dept had one arrive on Tuesday......it is a sold car but one of the first.
Can you get some Pics Evo?
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I really wouldn't get hung up on weights here 26kg difference? 7kg difference between a manual GTD and a DSG GTI - does DSG box ruin the handling on a GTI because it adds 19kg weight? I think not.
Who's getting hung up on weights (and weight distribution if we are being pedantic)?! Sorry people, but just the way a diesel delivers its power means it will not drive the same as a GTi. That's fact, and does not mean the GTD will drive and handle crap...of course it will drive well.
gryzor were you not the one who said the gtd would be nose heavy etc etc. all MH is saying is that the weight difference between the cars is negligible and it won't make a difference. your gti is obviously going to be the best and nothing anyone says is right. enjoy your car mate,
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Ages ago there was a post saying a dealer would have one within a week. I posted a link to it recently when someone asked. Not got time to find it again now but was on a thread that was created very recently.
That was me but I've not heard that my dealer has got it yet so he probably hasn't - should have been with them last weekend.
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gryzor were you not the one who said the gtd would be nose heavy etc etc. all MH is saying is that the weight difference between the cars is negligible and it won't make a difference. your gti is obviously going to be the best and nothing anyone says is right. enjoy your car mate,
Yes, and you think that constitutes getting "hung up"?! It's pretty obvious from reading my posts that I think the GTD is a great car, and will obviously drive really well. However, it will NOT give the same driving experience as a GTI, even if it's just the difference in the colour of the interior trim and sub-lighting giving the driver a different ambience. Not once have I said the GTI is a better car than the GTD, because they both have their relative pros and cons that will mean more or less to one person compared to another.
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I often wonder how many people who buy a car based on the "driving experience" could actually tell the difference in dynamics of different cars, if they hadn't read about what the road testers in magazines make up.
Obviously my Golf drives completely differently to the Toyota Yaris that I collected for my Dad today, but when the differences are so miniscule, how many people can honestly pick the bones out of them on the public road?
Just a thought.
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True. And if you're happy in a GTD (as I am), then the fact that the driving experience is better in the GTI is immaterial. I enjoy the driving experience, and I've never once thought "oh, I wish I'd bought a GTI" or wanted anything more out of it (other than less rattles and more resilient paintwork).
The GTI is better in some ways, the GTD in others. Classic swings and roundabouts. Choosing one over the other is a matter for the individual concerned. For 95% of people, for whom a car is a tool from getting from "A" to "B", the fact that the driving experience is "better" in the car with the red accents is totally irrelevant.
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Absolutely right, different people value different things in a car. To be brutally honest, if the GTD looked exactly the same as the GTI, the decision wouldn't be so clear cut. That's how much importance I put on a lot of the material and design aspects.
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This is a (metaphorical) line being drawn under my agonising indecision!
My mind is made up. A decision has been made. I've just this minute changed my order from a GTD to a GTI at the expense of my place in the queue. Hope its worth it (won't be seeing it until Oct/Nov by which time you lot will be bored of yours).
New order: GTI, DSG, 5 Door, Pure White (but so, so tempted to switch to Carbon Grey), Keyless, 4yr Warranty, 3yr Service Plan
No ACC and No Performance Pack (though was very tempted but resisted). So, a pretty vanilla GTI.
Thanks so much for all your help and passionate opinion. All good stuff.
GTD fans (me included): Don't hate me or start calling me a scab, turncoat, defector or a Judas :wink:
Yours relieved
Mr H50
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This is a (metaphorical) line being drawn under my agonising indecision!
My mind is made up. A decision has been made. I've just this minute changed my order from a GTD to a GTI at the expense of my place in the queue. Hope its worth it (won't be seeing it until Oct/Nov by which time you lot will be bored of yours).
New order: GTI, DSG, 5 Door, Pure White (but so, so tempted to switch to Carbon Grey), Keyless, 4yr Warranty, 3yr Service Plan
No ACC and No Performance Pack (though was very tempted but resisted). So, a pretty vanilla GTI.
Thanks so much for all your help and passionate opinion. All good stuff.
GTD fans (me included): Don't hate me or start calling me a scab, turncoat, defector or a Judas :wink:
Yours relieved
Mr H50
So what happens if they announce a twin turbo TDI R 225PS with 65mpg in October? :whistle:
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Although it sounds like it should be, I'm sure it wasn't such an easy decision for you H5O. Nice choice of doors and colour (CSG would be equally nice) - keyless just tops it all off nicely. The wait will be more than worth it I'm sure :)
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Great decision, and no surprise you've switched after driving it!
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So what happens if they announce a twin turbo TDI R 225PS with 65mpg in October? :whistle:
Now you're really messing with my head :wink:.......... of course I'd change again in an instant!!!
No, no, no really this is it for me now. If I even hint at swopping, amending or tinkering you have permission to shoot me!
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Bloody turncoat..........
Only kidding, whatever one you pick it will be great, and it's your money so go where your heart is :grin:
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Bloody turncoat..........
Only kidding, whatever one you pick it will be great, and it's your money so go where your heart is :grin:
I knew it, I can feel your indignation :wink:
I'm just bloody relieved to be honest matey.
Gotta forget about that mpg now :grin: :laugh: :grin: :laugh: this is a decision from the heart (not normal for me).
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H50
Once you had that nagging doubt that was it, it was always going to be the GTI. :cool:
You won't regret it.
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I'm just bloody relieved to be honest matey.
Gotta forget about that mpg now :grin: :laugh: :grin: :laugh: this is a decision from the heart (not normal for me).
I know it's not the same for everybody, but my GTI was also a decision from the heart. If I'd have listened to my head, I'd have ended up with a GTD and ultimately buyers remorse. I'm keeping my car for many years, so relative depreciation is a non-issue, only actual annual running costs. This worked out to be only £400 - 500 or so per year different based on tax and miles I do, which is fine, as I'm just about to save £110 per month on my mortgage payments over the next 5 years!
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H50
Once you had that nagging doubt that was it, it was always going to be the GTI. :cool:
You won't regret it.
You know you're right. I'm sure I won't regret it :drool: (Just the wait that will kill me. Let's not forget I originally ordered my GTD on 9 April :shocked:)
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So what happens if they announce a twin turbo TDI R 225PS with 65mpg in October? :whistle:
Then I'll prep my squadron of pigs to give it a fly past on the launch day.
which is fine, as I'm just about to save £110 per month on my mortgage payments over the next 5 years!
Ha! Same logic being used here mate, I'm discounting the cost of the cash I'm borrowing on the basis that getting off my fixed rate and onto a lower one is about to save me nearly all of that...
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You know you're right. I'm sure I won't regret it :drool: (Just the wait that will kill me. Let's not forget I originally ordered my GTD on 9 April :shocked:)
I have a sneaky feeling VW may have ramped up production a little to compensate for the demand. I wouldn't be surprised if the lead time has or is about to drop a bit. Not gonna hit 8 weeks but might be the right side of 12, as opposed to the wrong side of 20! We can hope at least.
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I know it's not the same for everybody, but my GTI was also a decision from the heart. If I'd have listened to my head, I'd have ended up with a GTD and ultimately buyers remorse. I'm keeping my car for many years, so relative depreciation is a non-issue, only actual annual running costs. This worked out to be only £400 - 500 or so per year different based on tax and miles I do, which is fine, as I'm just about to save £110 per month on my mortgage payments over the next 5 years!
Keep paying the £110 a month off your mortgage. Just think how much that will knock off the capital.
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Ahem....cough, cough.........just paid off my mortgage completely :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Ahem....cough, cough.........just paid off my mortgage completely :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
You lucky git! Now you just need to decide when to use your new car or your free bus pass :grin: :grin:
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Ahem....cough, cough.........just paid off my mortgage completely :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
That explains the sheer quantity of your optional extras :wink: Haha
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Ahem....cough, cough.........just paid off my mortgage completely :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
That explains the sheer quantity of your optional extras :wink: Haha
LOL!
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Ahem....cough, cough.........just paid off my mortgage completely :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
It's a great feeling isn't it. :cool:
The trouble is tho', we may move in about 4 years when our youngest finishes primary school, so that will undoubtedly mean borrowing again. :sad:
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When you drive out the dealers with a huge smile on your face..........it would have all been worth it :smiley:
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When you drive out the dealers with a huge smile on your face..........it would have all been worth it :smiley:
Cheers fella! I hope you're right.
It'll be my first ever GTI so I know I'll be excited.