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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Hawaii-Five-O on 20 May 2013, 11:37

Title: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Hawaii-Five-O on 20 May 2013, 11:37
Simple question really:

Have VW optimised the DSG box for use with diesel engines whilst using sport mode?

My worry is that whilst in 'Sport' mode the engine generally revs its nuts off and hold the red line for longer. This won't work for diesel engines which rev lower down the range and have max torque at around 1500rpm.

Can any Mk6 DSG GTD drivers shed any light on this?
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Sootchucker on 20 May 2013, 11:52
Not a GTD I know, my my Rocco 140 TDI has DSG, and all I can say is that in Sport mode, it's quite a bit faster. Sure it does hold on to the revs longer, but never seems to run out of puff before the change up - you just ride a wall of torque. So yes, I assume the software does very much take into account the characteristics of the engine it's paired with.
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Hawaii-Five-O on 20 May 2013, 12:18
Not a GTD I know, my my Rocco 140 TDI has DSG, and all I can say is that in Sport mode, it's quite a bit faster. Sure it does hold on to the revs longer, but never seems to run out of puff before the change up - you just ride a wall of torque. So yes, I assume the software does very much take into account the characteristics of the engine it's paired with.

That good to hear Norbreck21a, but, are there any hard facts (data) to back that up from VW?
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: dubber36 on 20 May 2013, 14:35
My Passat 140 is keener to change down in S and does feel quicker. Not only accelerating, but when braking for corners too. When driving at up to 8 tenths, it will change up at just over 4000rpm, but with my foot to the floor, it will hang on all the way to the red line. If you are really on it with your foot hard down, I think you are better off in manual mode, so that you can upshift when you want to using the paddles.
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Gryzor on 20 May 2013, 14:38
I think you are better off in manual mode, so that you can upshift when you want to using the paddles.

Or just drive a manual ;)  Sorry, couldn't resist!  :tongue:
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: CraigW on 20 May 2013, 14:51
Sport mode in a diesel - is there such a thing  :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: matchboy on 20 May 2013, 14:58
Sport mode in a diesel - is there such a thing  :grin: :grin:

 :grin: :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Gryzor on 20 May 2013, 14:58
Sport mode in a diesel - is there such a thing  :grin: :grin:

Haha, but still...they need something to torque about ;)
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Movi on 20 May 2013, 18:12
Simple question really:

Have VW optimised the DSG box for use with diesel engines whilst using sport mode?

My worry is that whilst in 'Sport' mode the engine generally revs its nuts off and hold the red line for longer. This won't work for diesel engines which rev lower down the range and have max torque at around 1500rpm.

Can any Mk6 DSG GTD drivers shed any light on this?

I have a GTD 6 DSG and your right it does hold on to the gears for too long when going full chat in S mode.

I tend to only use S mode when approaching roundabouts to get the instant go when you need it most. and then use the steering wheel controls to change up when it starts to run out of puff.

lets hope the software in the mk7 is improved.
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Hawaii-Five-O on 20 May 2013, 22:17
Simple question really:

Have VW optimised the DSG box for use with diesel engines whilst using sport mode?

My worry is that whilst in 'Sport' mode the engine generally revs its nuts off and hold the red line for longer. This won't work for diesel engines which rev lower down the range and have max torque at around 1500rpm.

Can any Mk6 DSG GTD drivers shed any light on this?

I have a GTD 6 DSG and your right it does hold on to the gears for too long when going full chat in S mode.

I tend to only use S mode when approaching roundabouts to get the instant go when you need it most. and then use the steering wheel controls to change up when it starts to run out of puff.

lets hope the software in the mk7 is improved.

Thanks for that Movi. Although I'm very disappointed to hear the DSG box isn't taylored for diesel engines. No.. actually I'm pretty pissed off to hear that.  :angry: :angry: :angry:

How is it acceptable to pay £1,415 pounds for an auto box that isn't attuned to the engine it's mated to? Even an layman knows diesel engines don't rev as highly as a petrol and have a lower torque band. Why would they put a bespoke rev counter into a diesel if they didn't understand the unique characteristics of a TDI? If its about cost cutting, by not remapping the characteristics of the DSG for diesel, then why not just leave the GTI rev counter in the derv and stick their engineering heads I the sand. Grrr

We can only hope they've addressed this for the mk7 diesel DSG.

Sorry for the rant :shocked: I'm just getting crabby with all this waiting :whistle:
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: mike. on 21 May 2013, 18:33
I have been driving DSGs for 8 years and only used S mode once to see what it was like,  it just held on to the revs alot.
D mode good for traffic jams, paddles the rest of the time.  :evil:
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Hawaii-Five-O on 21 May 2013, 22:01
I have been driving DSGs for 8 years and only used S mode once to see what it was like,  it just held on to the revs alot.
D mode good for traffic jams, paddles the rest of the time.  :evil:

Cheers Mike. However, I know all about driving a petrol DSG and hold revs high etc, etc.

My question is have VW re-looked at the map for the diesel DSG whilst wishing to use 'S' mode? It's no bloody good the diesel screaming away, holding high revs and running out of puff just because the knuckheads at Wolfsberg forgot to re-characterise the DSG :shocked:

That's why I'm trying to find out if they've made any changes with the new Mk7.

Whilst we're on about DSGs, when d'ya reckon VW will bring out an 8 speed dual clutch (e.g. I hear very good things about the BMW ZF unit)? This 6 speeder has been around for years and years now.
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: mike. on 21 May 2013, 22:20
VW are working on a 10 speed DSG gearbox reported by autoexpress  HERE  (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/63778/vw-developing-10-speed-dsg-gearbox)
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Ginge 35Edition on 21 May 2013, 22:29
The way I see it is this, you use the sort mode when you wanna have fun so what can be. More fun than using the paddles? I borrowed an A class 220cdi AMG Sport and that was exactly the same. I've just noticed that they do a Brabus dealer fit chip which takes it to 210bhp which must be mental.
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: mcmaddy on 21 May 2013, 22:29
I had a loan car from VW which was a dsg beetle. played around with the modes and didn't think the sport mode held on too much. probably about right.
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Hawaii-Five-O on 21 May 2013, 22:54
VW are working on a 10 speed DSG gearbox reported by autoexpress  HERE  (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/63778/vw-developing-10-speed-dsg-gearbox)

10 speed DSG wowzza! But by far the most interesting thing from that article was the mention of a 2.0 ltr 268 bhp diesel!

Maybe there will be a Mk7 Golf GTD-R after all :shocked:
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: monkeyhanger on 21 May 2013, 23:10
VW are working on a 10 speed DSG gearbox reported by autoexpress  HERE  (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/63778/vw-developing-10-speed-dsg-gearbox)

10 speed DSG wowzza! But by far the most interesting thing from that article was the mention of a 2.0 ltr 268 bhp diesel!

Maybe there will be a Mk7 Golf GTD-R after all :shocked:

These VAGs will have more gears than a mountain bike soon. If it comes to that I can see them phasing manual out - 10 speed manual seems impractical  to compete with a 10 speed DSG.

Roll on the 268BHP 2.0 Diesel that'll probably do 80 miles to the gallon!
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Bill_the_Bear on 21 May 2013, 23:56
The 10-speed is mentioned in conjunction with a 134bhp engine.  I wonder if this is a dry box like the 7-speed.  If so it's made for small high efficiency engines and is incompatible with cars like the GTI/GTD/R.

I do recall that VW did want more gears for the larger engines though...

Also I think some posters are mistaking the OP.  He wasn't asking about the performance of the DSG in sport mode.  He is asking if the DSG in sport mode uses software specific to the TDI engine, or if it is assuming its mated to a TSI.  I can't see how they could not set it up for the TDI, but that doesn't mean they did a good job though.
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: monkeyhanger on 22 May 2013, 07:48
It's not so inappropriate for the DSG to hang onto a gear longer with the newer TDIs.

My PD TDIs of the past used to have a very narrow Torque band - about 1850-3300RPM, above 3300 the power assistance from the turbo used to tail right off.

My Current Roc TDI170 pulls hard right up to about 4500rpm. I think that the DSG holds onto a gear far longer than most people would in a manual for both the TSI and the TDI. Acceleration with DSGs are pretty much all or nothing - they either have you pootling about with very early changes or have the engine screaming with very late changes, doesn't seem to be much compromise in the middle for brisk but not hard acceleration.

If VW haven't taken torque bands into account for determining optimum gear changes then they've been very lazy.
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: jsybrian on 22 May 2013, 08:31
Hi not sure if it helps current car is a Audi Q3 TDI177 with DSG I believe this is the same engine as the new GTD will have.I have a Chipexpress box on mine approx 220bhp and 380lb ft torque S Mode does hold onto gears longer but does change up before revving its nuts off.By the way a chipped GTD will be quick if it works as well as mine.
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Hawaii-Five-O on 22 May 2013, 09:37
Hi not sure if it helps current car is a Audi Q3 TDI177 with DSG I believe this is the same engine as the new GTD will have.I have a Chipexpress box on mine approx 220bhp and 380lb ft torque S Mode does hold onto gears longer but does change up before revving its nuts off.By the way a chipped GTD will be quick if it works as well as mine.

**jsybrian** I'd like to PM you but I can't because you haven't posted enough yet. Could you PM me your email. Id like to ask you something. Thx
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: jsybrian on 22 May 2013, 20:08
Sorry Hawaii-Five-O new to forum excuse ignorance how do I pm you.
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Hawaii-Five-O on 22 May 2013, 20:20
Sorry Hawaii-Five-O new to forum excuse ignorance how do I pm you.

Just click the little circular icon under my avatar. It's the right hand icon. That takes you to the private message page. PM your email and I can get back to you with my question :) Thx
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Rhyso on 22 May 2013, 20:26
Sorry Hawaii-Five-O new to forum excuse ignorance how do I pm you.

Just click the little circular icon under my avatar. It's the right hand icon. That takes you to the private message page. PM your email and I can get back to you with my question :) Thx

He will need 10 posts before he can do that  :wink:
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: jsybrian on 22 May 2013, 20:29
If its not too personal a question ask on forum I don't mind
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Hawaii-Five-O on 22 May 2013, 20:37
If its not too personal a question ask on forum I don't mind

It's not too personal I just don't want to go off topic in this thread by asking specific question about your Chip Express unit in you Q3. Kapeesh :wink:
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: jsybrian on 22 May 2013, 20:43
I'm pretty sure I must be close to ten posts by now if not as soon as I am I will pm you.
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Hawaii-Five-O on 22 May 2013, 21:02
I'm pretty sure I must be close to ten posts by now if not as soon as I am I will pm you.

You're on 6, just 4 to go :grin: :laugh: :rolleyes:
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Movi on 22 May 2013, 21:03
why not start a new topic. i would also be interested
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: Hawaii-Five-O on 22 May 2013, 21:10
why not start a new topic. i would also be interested

I've posted something here if you're interested:

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=254163.0

Nobody has replied yet. Probably because I'm so wet behind the ears when it comes remapping. Think my question is an insult to the hardcore tuners :wink:
Title: Re: DSG 'Sport' mode with diesel engines
Post by: jsybrian on 22 May 2013, 21:43
Have replied sort of.