GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: hobbiniho on 27 October 2012, 18:07
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hi there one of my mates has recently purchased a nice gti with a bam 1.8t engine fitted and it still has the standard brakes (288mm??) and to put it simply they are rubbish :shocked: my caddy van with g60's stops better :laugh:
now he really likes the looks of brembos and the added benefits that comes with them except the price tag :lipsrsealed: we cant find a complete kit for less than £1200-£1500 and he really doesnt want to spend that much.
is there any cheaper alternative?? i cant seem to find many kits etc i have heard mention of hi spec and ksport but not really sure on the quality??
also i know about the 312mm set up but is that really that much better than the 288mm set up??
any help would be appreciated
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Im not sure. You can go 312mm. But need 17s. Those with some greenstuff bpads would be ideal.
Thought you were talkimg about a mk4 earlier haha!!
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312mm will be more than sufficient if fitted with decent discs and mintex or ferodo pads. You'll need at least 16'' rims although some deep dish ones won't go over them.
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312mm will be fine anything bigger will need 17" rims
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i know a guy who fitted 312mm brakes & he had bbs rx2's 16" on he said he grinded the caliper down abit (is that safe to do?) or will adding a spacer be better? (i have the bbs rx2's & need to upgrade my braking to 312mm so was thinking about the spacer????)
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Yes, fine as long as you're careful.
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i know a guy who fitted 312mm brakes & he had bbs rx2's 16" on he said he grinded the caliper down abit (is that safe to do?) or will adding a spacer be better? (i have the bbs rx2's & need to upgrade my braking to 312mm so was thinking about the spacer????)
I have RXIIs on and 312mm frakes...and you need to do a fair bit of work.
You do indeed need to grind the high spots off the front calipers...probably 4-5mm...at two points on each caliper.
You can't run a spacer - unless you are running 50mm spacers - because it's the thick section of the rim where the 16 M7 bolts thread in, that catches on the caliper.
Even if you get them to fit, it's feeler gauge close...so close in fact that when you brake, the caliper flexes and it'll remove the paint/powdercoat from the inside of the rim.
If your wheel is slightly out of round..you've got no chance.
In all honesty, 288s with DECENT pads, fluid and discs will give you almost as good braking, with none of the clearance issues.
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thing is the disks and pads he has are relatively new and they just cannot stop it from 140+ leptons :whistle: and i cant see 312 being much better or are they?? i take it that all he needs for the 312mm swap is the carriers and disks as the caliper is the same??
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thing is the disks and pads he has are relatively new and they just cannot stop it from 140+ leptons :whistle: and i cant see 312 being much better or are they?? i take it that all he needs for the 312mm swap is the carriers and disks as the caliper is the same??
Then he bought sh!t disc and pads and must have sh!t tyres!
A vr6 has this setup and does 140mph all day everyday.
Buy good grooved disc's buy good pads that need to be hot to work and go spend £100 a corner on good tyres.
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thing is the disks and pads he has are relatively new and they just cannot stop it from 140+ leptons :whistle: and i cant see 312 being much better or are they?? i take it that all he needs for the 312mm swap is the carriers and disks as the caliper is the same??
Then he bought sh!t disc and pads and must have sh!t tyres!
A vr6 has this setup and does 140mph all day everyday.
Buy good grooved disc's buy good pads that need to be hot to work and go spend £100 a corner on good tyres.
hes only just bough the car and hes done nothing to it, nice too see you guys actually read the op :rolleyes: and as for the tyres yeh i have to agree with you toyo proxies are shyte :grin: :laugh:
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My 20vt is running 288mm and stops no problems,
Try decent discs/pads.....
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thing is the disks and pads he has are relatively new and they just cannot stop it from 140+ leptons :whistle: and i cant see 312 being much better or are they?? i take it that all he needs for the 312mm swap is the carriers and disks as the caliper is the same??
Then he bought sh!t disc and pads and must have sh!t tyres!
A vr6 has this setup and does 140mph all day everyday.
Buy good grooved disc's buy good pads that need to be hot to work and go spend £100 a corner on good tyres.
hes only just bough the car and hes done nothing to it, nice too see you guys actually read the op :rolleyes: and as for the tyres yeh i have to agree with you toyo proxies are shyte :grin: :laugh:
I read he recently bought the car. This could be months ago!
I read the brakes are new, thinking that he bought them!
I read that you want a cheap alternative to the expensive brembo caliper up grade.
I read that you think these brakes are crap, knowing that with good pads, disc's and tyres they are fine on a track car that is using the brakes heavily for long periods of time.
Toyo proxies. Cheap and good for the money.
Toyo proxies fitted to a 1.8t mk3 with at least 225bhp are not up to the job!
I said £100 a corner not £40!
Then after you done that buy some braided brake lines and bleed with some 5.1 fluid.
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ok sounds like 312 are the way to go quick question though is the mk3 the same fitment as the mk4 because all the 312's that i can find are lister for golf/a3/leon
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thing is the disks and pads he has are relatively new and they just cannot stop it from 140+ leptons :whistle: and i cant see 312 being much better or are they?? i take it that all he needs for the 312mm swap is the carriers and disks as the caliper is the same??
No...he will need a 6mm spacer between the caliper carrier and hub to space them in 6mm per side as the Mk4/TT/S3 312mm disc offset is greater.
He can keep the same calipers and brake lines.
But as has been said, if his pads are crap, he's only going to end up with heavier front brakes that are just as crap.
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ok sounds like 312 are the way to go quick question though is the mk3 the same fitment as the mk4 because all the 312's that i can find are lister for golf/a3/leon
You are not listening! Going 312 will not make the car stop any faster. They will only spread the heat further than 288 meaning it will take a little longer before fade. Bigger brakes are found on heavier cars.
To stop faster you need good quality parts. Not a big disc!
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hes only just bough the car and hes done nothing to it, nice too see you guys actually read the op :rolleyes: and as for the tyres yeh i have to agree with you toyo proxies are shyte :grin: :laugh:
They are?
T1-Rs?
Funny that...they handle 200 BHP on mine just fine...and I use them as trackday wets.
It's not the tyres that's shyte...it's the Mk3 chassis...sort that and the tyres are just fine.
Without sorting the chassis, even R888s/A048s are shyte. :whistle:
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You are not listening! Going 312 will not make the car stop any faster. They will only spread the heat further than 288 meaning it will take a little longer before fade. Bigger brakes are found on heavier cars.
He's obviously decided it NEEDS 312s.
Let him get on with it...and potentially find out the hard way. :lipsrsealed:
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You are not listening! Going 312 will not make the car stop any faster. They will only spread the heat further than 288 meaning it will take a little longer before fade. Bigger brakes are found on heavier cars.
He's obviously decided it NEEDS 312s.
Let him get on with it...and potentially find out the hard way. :lipsrsealed:
Yep I give up :grin:
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ok cool so it doesnt matter about disk size then i should tell him to downgrade to 256 and get brembo disks and mintex ds2500 pads and his brakes will be way better :wink: :laugh: or not :rolleyes:
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ok cool so it doesnt matter about disk size then i should tell him to downgrade to 256 and get brembo disks and mintex ds2500 pads and his brakes will be way better :wink: :laugh: or not :rolleyes:
Probably yes...due to the better pad! :evil:
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ok cool so it doesnt matter about disk size then i should tell him to downgrade to 256 and get brembo disks and mintex ds2500 pads and his brakes will be way better :wink: :laugh: or not :rolleyes:
You sir are a idiot!
We are giving you our years of knowledge and you are throwing it back, possibly thinking you know what he needs to do and go 312.
So why even bother asking the question? And waste our time with your response?
I won't be replying in any of your threads with good sound advise again!
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You are not listening! Going 312 will not make the car stop any faster. They will only spread the heat further than 288 meaning it will take a little longer before fade. Bigger brakes are found on heavier cars.
To stop faster you need good quality parts. Not a big disc!
i really am confused as to how 312's wont make it stop any better than the 288's given that the pad will be further away from the center therefor giving it more leverage is it not simple physics or im a completely stupid????
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You are not listening! Going 312 will not make the car stop any faster. They will only spread the heat further than 288 meaning it will take a little longer before fade. Bigger brakes are found on heavier cars.
To stop faster you need good quality parts. Not a big disc!
i really am confused as to how 312's wont make it stop any better than the 288's given that the pad will be further away from the center therefor giving it more leverage is it not simple physics or im a completely stupid????
Completely stupid!!
A f1 car disc is 278mm/11"
But it's made of carbon and the car weights 500kg
Do you feel stupid? Because you should and this thread makes you look very dumb
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i really am confused as to how 312's wont make it stop any better than the 288's given that the pad will be further away from the center therefor giving it more leverage is it not simple physics or im a completely stupid????
The difference in diameter makes very little difference in the real world, since the pads are the same, so the swept area of the disc is the same.
What you do get, is more metal to sink heat into...so they should go longer before overheating and fading.
But on the road, you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference between 288s and 312s.
280s to 312s...yes, as the 280s are noticably thinner (20mm vs 25mm) and have a significantly smaller pad area.
The diameter really doesn't significantly improve the braking...it just maintains it longer.
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Should have said:
DS2500/M1155s on 288s will outperform standard pads on 312s all day long.
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iv got around 350bhp at the moment and running the 312's with yellowstuff pads.
braking is immense, new discs high quality fluid and braided lines
i had 280s with my set up when it was 250bhp and they worked fine
288's will easily do the job, just needs to put decent pads and discs on, fluid and lines
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il ask the main question on his behalf :evil:
what brake disk/pad combo should I go for then?
say if your budget is £150-£200
i have green stuff pads with grooved disks. the grooves have disappeared & pads are low (4-5mm prob less) remaining. they lasted me a good few years with harsh braking.
Im thinking:
goodrich braided hoses
rebuild calipers with the full kit
thinking yellow stuff pads as kells has said they are immense
grooved disks but which?
thanks guys :wink:
p.s ess_three, you have an anni do your calipers have a banjo fitting? mine is the 8v but 288mm disk
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mk3's don't have banjo fittings, you only require a banjo fitting conversion hose kit when installing mk4 rear calipers.
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ok thats weird as same retailers who sell the braided hoses asked me if its a banjo fitting :huh:
so what fitting would i have??
cheers for the quick reply thai :wink:
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my S3 front calipers have Banjo
Forget grooved discs just get plain
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Surely if you increase the area in the calliper by going up in piston size or number of, you need to increase the master cylinder area proportionately to achieve efficient braking?
Not sure what Master cylinder diameter and volume (VW) cars with 312 brakes have as opposed to a Std Mk3 most likely the same or of little difference
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Surely if you increase the area in the calliper by going up in piston size or number of, you need to increase the master cylinder area proportionately to achieve efficient braking?
Not sure what Master cylinder diameter and volume (VW) cars with 312 brakes have as opposed to a Std Mk3 most likely the same or of little difference
Yep I'm sure your brake pedal will travel further before bite, but I can't see it being a problem. Could be better for feel.
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My mates vr turbo handled its 380bhp fine on 288 pagid discs and some mintex pads
He then spent alot of money buying and rebuilding 6pot tarox brakes, making them fit with custom adaptors to 312mm pagid discs, new yellow stuff pads just to be utterly disapointed and revert back to the 'rubbish' golf setup
As said, sort the chassis out as much as possible - many people overlook this part to stick turbos on and shiny wheels on etc
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mk3's don't have banjo fittings, you only require a banjo fitting conversion hose kit when installing mk4 rear calipers.
Late type 288mm fronts do.
TT/S3/Mk4 are the same caliper as the ATE type late Mk3 calipers.
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Forget grooved discs just get plain
You are always going to get differing opinions...
Personally I can't stand any EBC pad - I think thay are all crap.
I'd run Mintex M1155s or Ferodo DS2500
And I'd always run a grooved disc - in mt view, with proper competition type pads (M1155/DS2500) the gas layer causes problems, and the grooves solve that.
But as always...brakes are subjective...there are many good options.
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whats so good about Mintex M1155s or Ferodo DS2500? lets be honest! i wont be tracking my car so just need good brakes that will stop the car. dont want to waste money even though i want the 312mm braking only because "other people" have them. so feck that il just leave the standard size on.
what about the disks then bud? im defo going to get grooved as i had them before & they lasted long enough. tarox or black diamond any good? or dont bother looking at named brands?
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mk3's don't have banjo fittings, you only require a banjo fitting conversion hose kit when installing mk4 rear calipers.
Late type 288mm fronts do.
TT/S3/Mk4 are the same caliper as the ATE type late Mk3 calipers.
Of course, stupid me... It's what I've got on mine. :embarrassed:
Bolloxs that also means that braided Goodridge hoses I've got tucked away in the shed aren't going to fit either - Meh!
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well PM'ed kells and he said he has mintex disks with yellow stuff. spoke with C&N enterprise (got my previous disks from them (pretty good) might get same with yellow stuff (only reason for yellow stuff is that i have green stuff pads & they have very little dust :smiley: so going to try out the yellow stuff now unless others can change my mind with reguards with disks
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whats so good about Mintex M1155s or Ferodo DS2500?
They just work...they have a high friction co-efficient, work from cold with no squealling, take the heat well and give a better pedal, with a more constant feel.
OK...they produce dust...more than Greenstuff, but less than cheap OEM types.
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well PM'ed kells and he said he has mintex disks with yellow stuff. spoke with C&N enterprise (got my previous disks from them (pretty good) might get same with yellow stuff (only reason for yellow stuff is that i have green stuff pads & they have very little dust :smiley: so going to try out the yellow stuff now unless others can change my mind with reguards with disks
Greednstuff = no mess...but little feel, and I managed to delaminate all the pad material from the backing. Apparently EBC suggest they shoulsn't be used on 200BHP cars...crap.
Redstuff = even less feel than greenstuff, far more effort to make them do anything...and what they did, was not a lot.
Yellowstuff = better initial bite, but non linear accross the heat range and they need more of a shove than M1155s/DS2500s, in my mind.
All in all, I'd not have any of them.
There are better out there.
I have a set of Mintex Competition F4R Tarmac Rally pads too - it's like throwing out a pair of VR6s.
They are incredible...too aggressive for the road, they squeal like a pig and make lots of brake dust, that once wet, doesn't wash off.
So I don't use them :whistle:
As I said before, brake 'feel' is subjective, and everything is a compromise.
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Yellow stuff are spot on
Good from cold and get much stronger the hotter they get
I was getting serious brake fade with standard mintex pads prior to fitting these
For the money complained to the ds2500 etc they are a excellent pad
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I hated greenstuff on my 16v didn't work cold, warm them up and great, but didn't take much to make them fade.
However I want a set for my 8v because of the low brake dust and I don't drive it fast.
You think yellowstuff works better than greenstuff at cold temp?