GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: shaft69 on 17 October 2012, 22:12
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Which is best golf model for trackday mk1/2/3 or 4 and 20vt will be going into it if not in already.
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Cheapest these days is Golf3. Whatever you get, get it handling safe and stopping properly before you start worrying about adding loads more complexity, weight and power.
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It seems that although the Mk2 is lighter and can be easier/cheaper to mod, good shells are getting harder to find and more expensive. So as DH said a Mk3 is probably the next best bet. If you haven't done track days, starting out with a Mk3 16v GTI will have enough power to have fun without being stupidly expensive and parts are easy to find. (Avoid the VR6 as the engine makes it rather more nose heavy). It'll have better brakes and safety kit to start with than a Mk2. Strip it out to lose as much weight as possible, better suspension, new tyres and so on.
Once you're got a taste for it, then you can up the power, improve the brakes, cage, harnesses, etc.
Take a look through the Dub Rides and Projects sections, there are a few track cars in there for inspiration.
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http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?board=18.0
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Got to half decent this is my mates 1st track car he's doing so got keep up with his at least. looking into e36 m3 at mo looking at one sat morning. My mates in link.
http://grahammartinautomotive.co.uk/what-we-do-at-gma-ltd-gallery/m3-track-car-project-2/
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Going to look at this one sat
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1994-BMW-M3-e36-3-0-Coupe-/251134747441?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3a78cc2331
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Mk3 is much better than a mk2. If they weight the same the mk3 would be faster on track.
Strip it completely and replace bushes.
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cool got bam engine I bought some time ago with box and loom, have set of wossner rods looking for gt2871r turbo and other bits. want it for some summer fun next year.
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Mk2 if you can find a good one, if not mk3 and put it on a diet
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Mk3 is much better than a mk2. If they weight the same the mk3 would be faster on track.
Strip it completely and replace bushes.
mk3's defantly arn't better. removeing all the crap will make them go better than before, the only really big plus on there side is that
mk3 are much cheeper than a mk2 and you get bonus points for getting them off the road and or crashing them ...
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Mk3 is much better than a mk2.
:grin:
You came to this conclusion how, exactly?!
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I can't remember where it was, but I remember reading a post from Rubjonny saying the Mk3 chassis was better than the Mk2. It was not only more aerodynamic but the construction of the chassis was stiffer. The Mk3 also had a wider track.
Don't shoot the messenger, that was all something I read from Rubjonny.
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I can't remember where it was, but I remember reading a post from Rubjonny saying the Mk3 chassis was better than the Mk2. It was not only more aerodynamic but the construction of the chassis was stiffer. The Mk3 also had a wider track.
Don't shoot the messenger, that was all something I read from Rubjonny.
This!!! They come with much better brakes too!
Mk3 has bad name because it was slower than the mk2, but that's only the weight.
Tell me how the mk2 is so much better than a mk3 other than power to weight ratio?
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Q why is the mk3 crap ? a) they are a shopping trolly of a car even the GTI 's
the only thing mk3's do quickly is ROT, underpowerd bouncy barges and to top it off they look gay
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Q why is the mk3 crap ? a) they are a shopping trolly of a car even the GTI 's
the only thing mk3's do quickly is ROT, underpowerd bouncy barges and to top it off they look gay
Childish answer with no real facts of how the mk2 is better than the mk3.
Worse golf ever made was the mk4 2.0 gti
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Q why is the mk3 crap ? a) they are a shopping trolly of a car even the GTI 's
the only thing mk3's do quickly is ROT, underpowerd bouncy barges and to top it off they look gay
Childish answer with no real facts of how the mk2 is better than the mk3.
Worse golf ever made was the mk4 2.0 gti
What did you expect?....really?......
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Q why is the mk3 crap ? a) they are a shopping trolly of a car even the GTI 's
the only thing mk3's do quickly is ROT, underpowerd bouncy barges and to top it off they look gay
Childish answer with no real facts of how the mk2 is better than the mk3.
Worse golf ever made was the mk4 2.0 gti
What did you expect?....really?......
Well I don't get it. They have more power than the mk2's but have same power as the mk4's. so is it really the mk3 that's under powered?
They rot fast? So why is it hard to find a mk2 without rot?
I do think the mk2 looks better however.
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It's not about facts and figures and i also like mk2's.
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I can't remember where it was, but I remember reading a post from Rubjonny saying the Mk3 chassis was better than the Mk2. It was not only more aerodynamic but the construction of the chassis was stiffer. The Mk3 also had a wider track.
Don't shoot the messenger, that was all something I read from Rubjonny.
This!!! They come with much better brakes too!
Mk3 has bad name because it was slower than the mk2, but that's only the weight.
Tell me how the mk2 is so much better than a mk3 other than power to weight ratio?
Without getting into a debate I would point out they have more power and better brakes because there heavier. The MK3 Golf was also built at a time when a new set of tougher regulations came out, particularly with emmissions. This has obviously had an impact on the power output.
They are currently not old enough to be considered a classic at the moment so as pointed out will be the cheapest option. What would be really useful to the OP would be an opinion for someone who has stripped one down for use on a trackday. How much weight was saved etc?
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This is what I'm saying the good thing about a mk2 is its weight.
If it was just a track car and not road legal you could get one to 800kg
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they are all just shells at the end of the day, you can make them as fast as you want.
wise man says many variables makes for pointless arguments
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Oh dear.
Some people need to look at the shell and suspension G2 vs G3.
There's not a huge lot of difference, but there's lots more lard added to the G3 as outlined previously, which is a large portion of what dents the track appeal - more weight = less enjoyment, in simple terms.
You can take a lot of the lard out, but £10 says it'll still weigh at least 100kg more, with no benefit. And then you have crud like airbags and ABS to render out of it - time, effort and aggravation and potential MOT issues, along with the need to run a cat if it's road-going.
G3s do seem to rot faster than G2s, with sill covers designed to trap moisture on the sills and generally what seems poor quality steel. Remember the oldest G2s are 1984ish. The oldest G3s are 92-93ish. As cars age they degrade and G2s are older, duh.
Stiffness of the shell - immaterial once you have a cage in it. Who's really going to notice all that stiffness out on track to start with anyway? You'll be focused on driving and having fun, unless you're some sort of anal moron sitting there holding people up going 'you know, I believe this shell isn't very stiff - look feel it, it moved then'. It's not like the G2 was ever called out for lacking rigidity.
Wideness of the track - again you're clutching at straws thrown to you by a bloke down the pub at best. The wide-track stuff all bolts up to the G2 anyway - lighter shell, track just as wide, doesn't look like a blancmange.
This thread was about the 'best trackday fun Golf'. Not the best out and out track day Golf, which is clearly a G2. You want fun? By fun I mean cheap and easy to access = fun - G3 as I've said on various occasions.
You want overall best then buy a good, solid G2 shell and a rotten G3 16V and replace the front subframe etc and rear beam etc as well as the engine and 'box on the G2 with that from the G3 and you have a hybrid, which is better than both and doesn't look like a blancmange.
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Haha I was only fishing and wanted a bite :grin:
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^^That is quite logical and sensible advice. :smiley: i think if i was going to build a track day project (never going to happen) i'd rather go for a basic mk2 or even a mk1 although i do prefer the look of a 3 door mk3 to a mk2 but thats just personal preference.
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Get a kart. Much better than doing a track day in a golf!
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no thanks on the cart frount.
all karting centers are full of anoying small cocky thingys that think there amazing. size of driver makes massive differance with karts but much less with cars. also most karts arn't really that quick till you get to the proper raceing ones but they cost quite a lot to keep up together. 250 + gearbox karts are bloody good fun tho
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no thanks on the cart frount.
all karting centers are full of anoying small cocky thingys that think there amazing. size of driver makes massive differance with karts but much less with cars. also most karts arn't really that quick till you get to the proper raceing ones but they cost quite a lot to keep up together. 250 + gearbox karts are bloody good fun tho
I race karts. I'm in Tkm extreme. 115cc 2stroke that pulls to 16,500rpm we use maxxis new age green slicks with a compound stickier than most! Got enough corner speed to to pull enough G's to snap ribs. Wear a rib protector and its all fun. I've done a track day in a new Nissan GTR and found it slow!
I don't do sh!tty kart centres, I race in a championship with very skilled drivers.
This is us at redlodge. That's my bro in law on pole. Kart 99 I'm kart 58. Average speed is 61mph. Couldn't tell you top speed.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=boMa0Uu2rHk (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=boMa0Uu2rHk)
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Now watch these slow mk2 golfs
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yGW4RJGZTqo (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yGW4RJGZTqo)
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Now watch these slow mk2 golfs
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yGW4RJGZTqo (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yGW4RJGZTqo)
The golfs look like more fun :lipsrsealed:
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know champion ship karts can be fast. they cost quite a lot of dollar to run for what they are tho...
built enough kart engines ( hatefull things ) for the guys that take like 3 engines to one meeting and swap engines as often as tyers. developed quite a few not so legal mods for the hatefull littel things. we allways just used to end up knobing about with them on the road for "testing pourposes".
For me rallying is where it's at tracks are all good fun but give me the choice and i'll take tree lined gravel tracks any day even tho they hurt more
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Get a kart. Much better than doing a track day in a golf!
If you are a little pixie with a 28" waist and a 14" neck.
For actual full size people, there are cars instead.
I've done a track day in a new Nissan GTR and found it slow!
What's that? You went out in a car that has sufficient driving aids you just need to point it in vaguely the right direction and squirt and you found it dull after a kart?
How shocking.
Get something that needs some skill to drive fast, doesn't flatter the driver with electronics, or have any safety nets and try again, numbnuts.
(http://www.northloop.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/loser.gif)
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Get a kart. Much better than doing a track day in a golf!
If you are a little pixie with a 28" waist and a 14" neck.
For actual full size people, there are cars instead.
I've done a track day in a new Nissan GTR and found it slow!
What's that? You went out in a car that has sufficient driving aids you just need to point it in vaguely the right direction and squirt and you found it dull after a kart?
How shocking.
Get something that needs some skill to drive fast, doesn't flatter the driver with electronics, or have any safety nets and try again, numbnuts.
(http://www.northloop.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/loser.gif)
I'm 6ft2 88kg and 6% body fat. 32" waist.
I have a kart for that, that had no rear diff and takes a lot of skill to keep in a straight line. Having to get setup just right so it doesn't under steer or oversteer. Have you ever raced in a competitive kart championship?
I've drove enough cars to know I would rather stay in a kart. Unless I bought a caterham, but that costs more and has same practicability as a kart! :grin:
know champion ship karts can be fast. they cost quite a lot of dollar to run for what they are tho...
built enough kart engines ( hatefull things ) for the guys that take like 3 engines to one meeting and swap engines as often as tyers. developed quite a few not so legal mods for the hatefull littel things. we allways just used to end up knobing about with them on the road for "testing pourposes".
For me rallying is where it's at tracks are all good fun but give me the choice and i'll take tree lined gravel tracks any day even tho they hurt more
Never done that so can't comment on rallying. Looks great fun and takes a real man to drive flat out on roads like that, or a stupid one :lipsrsealed: :grin:
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(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc477/gavv8/imagesCACBQ6NL_zps9f6a89c9.jpg)
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lol I knew at the mention of a pointless argument Dick Head would be all over it like a rash :grin:
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Yes and there you are, as if by magic. An unmarried funny little man with no kids, up early on a Sunday morning, to join in on the very argument you're trying to lampoon.
(http://www.northloop.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/loser.gif)
Better to be spouting sh*te than shouting spite, which is all you're capable of.
Anyone who's read an MSA bulletin knows trolls like Tweed are attracted to karting like moths to a light.
As before - for grown ups, there are cars. Even Caterhams (which cost a lot less than a GTR) are a lot more practical than a kart.
(http://i.qkme.me/35scas.jpg)
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zS09MS0eXWs/TuDIPL5tEJI/AAAAAAAAAHU/6S7FjiRtHBs/s1600/fishing.jpg)
there it is :grin: a little more personal than usual but 8/10 for the added hypocracy
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zS09MS0eXWs/TuDIPL5tEJI/AAAAAAAAAHU/6S7FjiRtHBs/s1600/fishing.jpg)
there it is :grin: a little more personal than usual but 8/10 for the added hypocracy
Its so easy to get a bite in here :grin:
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Tell me how the mk2 is so much better than a mk3 other than power to weight ratio?
Sorry how is that fishing? You ask a question and get an answer?
(https://static.prtst.net/asset-proxy/72e28a2f5a94ca7ed42541a393b005adc360d5b1/687474703a2f2f66696c65732e73686172656e61746f722e636f6d2f495f6b6e6f775f776861745f796f755f6172655f596f7572655f615f6661696c5f74726f6c6c5f52455f4d795f4e65775f4176617461722d73353930783737352d3130363338342e6a7067/http://files.sharenator.com/I_know_what_you_are_Youre_a_fail_troll_RE_My_New_Avatar-s590x775-106384.jpg)
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Tell me how the mk2 is so much better than a mk3 other than power to weight ratio?
Sorry how is that fishing? You ask a question and get an answer?
(https://static.prtst.net/asset-proxy/72e28a2f5a94ca7ed42541a393b005adc360d5b1/687474703a2f2f66696c65732e73686172656e61746f722e636f6d2f495f6b6e6f775f776861745f796f755f6172655f596f7572655f615f6661696c5f74726f6c6c5f52455f4d795f4e65775f4176617461722d73353930783737352d3130363338342e6a7067/http://files.sharenator.com/I_know_what_you_are_Youre_a_fail_troll_RE_My_New_Avatar-s590x775-106384.jpg)
If you read my first post saying, "mk3 is so much better than a mk2" you will know I was fishing. If I was to build a track car I would have a mk3 abf and running gear in a mk2 shell. That post was just keeping it going!
Your post is a fail! So let this old thread lay to rest
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Was reading if getting track car best get left hand drive model that true?? Poss y touring cars are lhd!!
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What about a corrado??
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Don't know why you'd want an LHD car, unless you had a Golf1, which have some slightly stupid pedal linkages IIRC.
Corrado - yes: nice stiff shell - why not? although dearer to buy and could be a pain if you have an off as bits ain't cheap. Not cheap fun!
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lhd is preferred because of the weight of the engine being the same side as the driver on rhd cars. The golf is designed as lhd and adapted for rhd.
Look at jap fwd cars, designed as rhd so the engine is on the left, gearbox on the right.
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Only a big issue for those who don't have a passenger when they're out on track, I guess.
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didn't realise your passengers brought their own steering wheel/column and pedal box/servo/mc's etc into the car :grin:
its a race car thing, not really worth the effort for a track car especially if you drive to tracks, but it's a performance difference none the less.
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didn't realise your passengers brought their own steering wheel/column and pedal box/servo/mc's etc into the car
I take it you've not met the size of Chuff and DannyP then?