GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: Neil gti on 16 May 2012, 07:23
-
For those of you with the R ? Does it feel a lot heavier than the GTi like the R32 did to drive?
As most of you know I do quite a lot of Trackdays, do I KO4 mine or change to the R I have been pondering about this for a while due to turbo's failing on track with the GTi TSi engines, due to lack of oil with the sump design ? Turbos have been getting staved of oil and snapping the centre shaft,
If I KO4 mine the oil starvation problem will still be there, This is why I have been thinking about the change as the R is more tuneable, more grip, etc, but does it drive like a tank like the old R32 does (IMO)
Will my vwr brakes & PS10s off the GTi fit the R ?
Neil :undecided:
-
Ive test drove one only for half an hour with a salesman in the passenger and it did feel a lot heavier than the gti, i think people forget it's only around 25kg (off the top of my head) lighter than the R32 and about the same on fuel, but that 25kg is lighter at the front which makes it handle a bit better. Im sure someone with a lot more experence will know a lot more as i have said short test drive.
Edit- on VW website its saying 1521kg's ! That is a fatty, my 58 plate R32 from memory said 1515kg on the log book.
-
Best of both, LCR?
-
Or scirroco r
-
Ive test drove one only for half an hour with a salesman in the passenger and it did feel a lot heavier than the gti, i think people forget it's only around 25kg (off the top of my head) lighter than the R32 and about the same on fuel, but that 25kg is lighter at the front which makes it handle a bit better. Im sure someone with a lot more experence will know a lot more as i have said short test drive.
Edit- on VW website its saying 1521kg's ! That is a fatty, my 58 plate R32 from memory said 1515kg on the log book.
That is a fatty !! i could not live with my old R32 for that reason !
Best of both, LCR?
Call me a snob but i could'nt go back to Seat :embarassed:
Or scirroco r
I test drove the Scirrocco before i got the Mk6, felt a bit closterfobic and not keen on that fat Arse :smiley:
Thanks for the replys guys, i am not easy to please :grin:
-
If it was me I would go edition35 because of heldex can do some odd things at times and thats the last thing you need on track.
-
I'm pondering putting mine up for sale in a few weeks through lack of use, 1900 miles in just over 6 months if your interested.
-
If it was me I would go edition35 because of heldex can do some odd things at times and thats the last thing you need on track.
Think your right bud, that was i was thinking about the Haldex.
I'm pondering putting mine up for sale in a few weeks through lack of use, 1900 miles in just over 6 months if your interested.
Never even thought about the ED35 :smiley: Is that the same engine as the ED30 ?
-
Yes it's the same.
-
i had an extended test drive on a Golf R where i was allowed to push it and i really liked it, whereas an S3 felt sterile VW had got the steering weight spot on, night and day a better car than a rocco, the Ed35 feels a bit more raw and unruly in comparison but thats sort of part of the way i like it, some great deals on Rs with delivery mileage
-
the secret to making the R feel lighter is to turn off the esp :wink:
its still manageable but once off it feels like there was previously something stopping all four wheels from turning. strange but true.
personally neil your car is set up great at the moment imo.... i would wait until the gti comes with the new engine and k04. Hate to say it but the ed35 is no real improvement on the ed30 if you discount the new panels :lipsrsealed:
-
Neil, if you want to drive a tuned R your not far from me, I'm away in Mexico on Monday for 10days but after that your welcome to test mine for 30min, I'm guessing you'll boot it once and take on a corner a good 10mph faster then you would have ever dared attempted in the gti and you'll see what I mean,
I had a stage 2 gti we were parted when it was stolen, but I wouldn't swap back now
Nothing wrong with the haldex just don't lose your bottle and let off like you can with front wheel drive and you won't have a problem, slow in fast out, golden rule
Yes it uses more fuel then a gti but your traveling faster, feels 100% more planted at 100mph + on the straights, quite simply a better car sorry folks but it is
-
the secret to making the R feel lighter is to turn off the esp :wink:
I see where your coming from but strange things happen when you turn it off in corners, as it's off one second and not the next, comes as a shock when it decides to just kick back in
-
Hate to say it but the ed35 is no real improvement on the ed30 if you discount the new panels :lipsrsealed:
whislt handling and chassis characteristics are pretty much similar strange as it sounds i actually find our Pirelli quite dated now in comparison (both running similar tune) in terms of looks and in terms of the quality feel, the Ed35 feels a bit more grown up, end of the day people have to get over fact the fact that they stopped making Ed30s in 2008
-
Best of both, LCR?
Call me a snob but i could'nt go back to Seat :embarassed:
I understand that one. My Leon Curpa in 2002 felt like a backward step after a Mk4 Golf.
-
If it was me I would go edition35 because of heldex can do some odd things at times and thats the last thing you need on track.
+1.
I have had an R on an extened test drive over two days and it was a great car and did a back to back with my MK6 and ED30. I really thought it was a better car but IMO not that much better and not worth the extra cost, hence why I went down the ED35 route. As you will be doing plenty of mods ( due to using it for track days) the car will not be standard and this is when the comparisons then start to show up the real differences between the two models and where the benefits of weight and AWD come in to play. The way I see it is it all depends on what you want eg a car which is more track biased (ED35) or road biased (R)
-
the secret to making the R feel lighter is to turn off the esp :wink:
its still manageable but once off it feels like there was previously something stopping all four wheels from turning. strange but true.
personally neil your car is set up great at the moment imo.... i would wait until the gti comes with the new engine and k04. Hate to say it but the ed35 is no real improvement on the ed30 if you discount the new panels :lipsrsealed:
The Ed35 is better in every way , better cabin, smoother, looks better and drives like a dream. :wink:
-
If it was me I would go edition35 because of heldex can do some odd things at times and thats the last thing you need on track.
+1.
I have had an R on an extened test drive over two days and it was a great car and did a back to back with my MK6 and ED30. I really thought it was a better car but IMO not that much better and not worth the extra cost, hence why I went down the ED35 route. As you will be doing plenty of mods ( due to using it for track days) the car will not be standard and this is when the comparisons then start to show up the real differences between the two models and where the benefits of weight and AWD come in to play. The way I see it is it all depends on what you want eg a car which is more track biased (ED35) or road biased (R)
i'm with you, i'd end up doing the same to the R as i'm going to do to the Ed35, this was my logic for not going Rocco R given it was 4k more in spec i wanted and i'd in reality be looking at M1s or used 911s
as a standard car the R is a cracker
-
i have just looked at a 3dr dsg r in my local dealer, £37,500 :shocked: i paid £22,000 for my gti in 2009
-
i have just looked at a 3dr dsg r in my local dealer, £37,500 :shocked: i paid £22,000 for my gti in 2009
Would that be around £22-23,000 to change then? I'd be thinking long and hard about that one.
-
i have just looked at a 3dr dsg r in my local dealer, £37,500 :shocked: i paid £22,000 for my gti in 2009
Would that be around £22-23,000 to change then? I'd be thinking long and hard about that one.
Its lovely car but silly money, i think i will wait a while and get a audi ttrs after all mine has only 12,000 miles on the clock and is still in a1 condition :smiley:
oh yes they also had a ed35 at over £30,000 :shocked:
-
I am on the same boat as you Neil! Priced an R at the weekend, but hikes up my monthly payments quite a bit plus needing to find a few ££££'s to put down including my trade in.
I took an R out last year up in Glasgow. Salesman let me go out myself which was good. Took it along the bypass then down to a quiet industial estate to fling it about some roundabouts. It was crazy! Absoultley great fun, 4WD makes some difference. With a simple remap it would be :laugh:
Anyone ever purchased a car from the internet? Price are much better than going to VW themselves!
http://www.newcar4me.com/
-
Thanks for all the replys chaps :smiley:
I do love the GTi so much still, if I could sort the sump problem out I would keep it without a doubt and KO4 it, it has limpet type grip with the set up on track and surprises so many other cars :smiley: APR have apparently sorted the sump problem out on there race cars but will not release it to the public ?
If I was to go for the R or ED35 I wouldn't buy new, I would get a used one,
VWs pricing has gone stupid !!
-
Get the R Neil you know it makes sense :wink:
-
Nothing wrong with the haldex just don't lose your bottle and let off like you can with front wheel drive and you won't have a problem, slow in fast out, golden rule
Yes it uses more fuel then a gti but your traveling faster, feels 100% more planted at 100mph + on the straights, quite simply a better car sorry folks but it is
Have to agree with this really... thats why many gti owners drive a R and think its twitchy. firstly they drive with the esp on which makes it more so (esp if you drive it like a gti).
Slow in fast out is the key :cool:
-
Neil the Mk7 is getting closer. Even if it doesn't tickle your fancy it'll bring the prices of all Mk6 variants down a couple of £££s.
-
Get the R and be done with it. Seriously good car. I've had mine for over two years now and love the AWD.Love it!! I don't think I'd ever want to go back now. Had a MK5 gti for 5 years previously, so I know what I'm talking about :smiley:
-
Whilst I agree the R is a nice car the MK7 is far too close to consider buying any new Mk6 IMO.
Jim
-
Whilst I agree the R is a nice car the MK7 is far too close to consider buying any new Mk6 IMO.
Jim
It won't be much different from the 6 , the mk6 R is a win win imo with 4wd!!
-
I think its going to be big changes, physically it make look similar but I think everything else will be big changes.
Also the used prices of the MK6 are going to drop like a stone.
Jim
-
I think its going to be big changes, physically it make look similar but I think everything else will be big changes.
Also the used prices of the MK6 are going to drop like a stone.
Jim
What are the changes Jim ?
-
Its a long wait. You wont have one until at least spring 2014!!
-
Think the most significant change must be the price. With the BMW M135i and A Class AMG mooted to be starting at £29k ish I don't think VW will be able to price the mk7 R north of £30k as the others will be more powerful at around 330-335bhp.
p.s. I own a mk6 R, so was one of the crazy ones. :laugh:
-
Short answer - it is un upgrade.
The chassis tune is better and it feels better. The extra weight over GTI (150kg) is not a problem really. 18" vs 19" tyres make a huge difference for steering feel though.
And it is absolutely true it feels so much more stable than GTI above 120
4WD is more of a safety option on the road. On the track day it behaves the same way as FWD but it makes the corner exit phase easier. It's not great fun as but I'm of the opinion only RWD really is.
I wouldn't go back to GTI.
As for the price - well, UK is not the main market. Germany is and the demand is high there so the price is aimed at that market. UK price will be just a simple exchange rate conversion plus some local taxes.
Mk7 GTI will not be here until 2014. S3 will be earlier so we should be able to see what's on the offer. New A3 (build using the new modular technology) is getting good reviews. True LSD will be worth more than 30bhp. I'm sure it will be more than £30k.
-
I reckon the R is a completely different car to drive than the GTi, so not really an upgrade IMHO
The GTi is lighter, more nimble, chuckable and probably more suited to slow tight bends on a track.
The R feels heavier but with a much more planted feel, and very rarely is traction a problem ... it will just catapult out of bends, even with steering lock on (compared to a GTi which would be scrabbling for grip).
Horses for courses and all that ... to own everyday on the road in all weather I much prefer the R ... but just to thrash around a track, I'm not so sure an R is worth the extra money.
Recorded track times do show the R is far faster than the R32, and faster than a GTi & ED35 too :smiley:
http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/vw_golf_r.html
http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/vw_golf_gti_mk_vi.html
http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/vw_golf_gti_edition_35.html
-
Great post Mr G above thanks ^^^^
-
I reckon the R is a completely different car to drive than the GTi, so not really an upgrade IMHO
The GTi is lighter, more nimble, chuckable and probably more suited to slow tight bends on a track.
The R feels heavier but with a much more planted feel, and very rarely is traction a problem ... it will just catapult out of bends, even with steering lock on (compared to a GTi which would be scrabbling for grip).
Horses for courses and all that ... to own everyday on the road in all weather I much prefer the R ... but just to thrash around a track, I'm not so sure an R is worth the extra money.
Recorded track times do show the R is far faster than the R32, and faster than a GTi & ED35 too :smiley:
http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/vw_golf_r.html
http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/vw_golf_gti_mk_vi.html
http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/vw_golf_gti_edition_35.html
I am with you on that, I have had 3 Aldi quattro's (UR and then a couple of V6 A4's) a few years ago and as you say very planted, incredible traction out or corners and roundabouts which is great for road driving especially when wet. The only problem with them (A4s only) was that you just had no sensation of speed so unless you were going for it they were ultimately a bit dull and needed way more power.
-
I had an r32 manuel for nearly 3years which is. Lot for me and absolutely loved it. The 4x4 was fantastic made it a much more serous tool but was still great fun. It feel like a rear drive times.
Everybody told me the gti was a better all rounder but I never really got on with it and I think part of it was the lack of 4x4. (Mostly the noise though)
My point is don't be put off by the 4x4 its epic, just turn off all ESP/tc and you'll have great fun steering with the throttle and drifting with out dying.
Good luck.
-
Everybody told me the gti was a better all rounder but I never really got on with it
I'm taking from this that you've since parted ways with your GTI? What did you go for as a replacement?
-
What about the APR Stage III package! :laugh: Shhhaaaaaawing!
-
What about the APR Stage III package! :laugh: Shhhaaaaaawing!
If I had an R then yes big power would be a must coz it all feels a bit too safe and controlled in std tune :laugh: :evil:
-
Neil this article sums it up quite well...
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/259630/volkswagen_golf_r_review.html
-
Wow Thanks for everybody's advice and thoughts on this :smiley:
Got the GTi out today and took her for a drive after not driving it for a week, and my thoughts were why am I thinking of getting rid of this !! It just makes me smile every time I drive it, turns so many heads and really looks the part,
I now know the R is a better car than the old R32 & the GTi but In all honesty i prefer the looks of the GTi, it's paid for and why get finance of another £10-15k for the privilege,
So sod it KO4 time for the GTi methinks, a fix for the sump pickup can't be far away now ?
Thanks again people :smiley:
-
Wow Thanks for everybody's advice and thoughts on this :smiley:
Got the GTi out today and took her for a drive after not driving it for a week, and my thoughts were why am I thinking of getting rid of this !! It just makes me smile every time I drive it, turns so many heads and really looks the part,
I now know the R is a better car than the old R32 & the GTi but In all honesty i prefer the looks of the GTi, it's paid for and why get finance of another £10-15k for the privilege,
So sod it KO4 time for the GTi methinks, a fix for the sump pickup can't be far away now ?
Thanks again people :smiley:
Good choice :smiley:
-
Wow Thanks for everybody's advice and thoughts on this :smiley:
Got the GTi out today and took her for a drive after not driving it for a week, and my thoughts were why am I thinking of getting rid of this !! It just makes me smile every time I drive it, turns so many heads and really looks the part,
I now know the R is a better car than the old R32 & the GTi but In all honesty i prefer the looks of the GTi, it's paid for and why get finance of another £10-15k for the privilege,
So sod it KO4 time for the GTi methinks, a fix for the sump pickup can't be far away now ?
Thanks again people :smiley:
Good choice :smiley:
Glad you've seen the light, a week without driving your pride and joy, after just one day without driving mine I'm pulling my hair out :laugh:
But by not driving her for a while it just makes you appreciate it more.... :cool:
-
Glad you've seen the light, a week without driving your pride and joy, after just one day without driving mine I'm pulling my hair out :laugh:
But by not driving her for a while it just makes you appreciate it more.... :cool:
Stop your moaning...that's 8 months and 4 days and counting for me :cry:
-
Glad you've seen the light, a week without driving your pride and joy, after just one day without driving mine I'm pulling my hair out :laugh:
But by not driving her for a while it just makes you appreciate it more.... :cool:
Stop your moaning...that's 8 months and 4 days and counting for me :cry:
Eh! :huh:
Me not understand this comment?
I was just literally commenting on how long Neil has not been in his GTI....
-
Unfortunatley Mr Three has been banned for enjoying his GTI....not cool. :sad:
-
I wouldn't say the R is an 'upgrade' as such from the GTI, just another model in the range.
Personally, I wouldn't buy an R. It would be a shed load more money for, on the face of it, the same car. Interior is pretty much identical with blue in place of red, and external panels are pretty much the same too.
If I could have got an R at the right price, I'd have probably bought it. I wouldn't get one now. My next car within the next 6 months will be an RS3.
-
To answer you question.
If you want a weapon to go from a-b as fast as posable no matter the conditions then the r is an upgrade.
If you want to have some fun a a little rascal and get half descent mpg and not 400£ for road tax and you prefer the look of a gti, then no the r is not an upgrade for you.
-
Eh! :huh:
Me not understand this comment?
I was just literally commenting on how long Neil has not been in his GTI....
After one day on not driving yours, you are pulling your hair out?
I have to look at mine sat there every day of the last 8 months...and there is still another 4+ to go before I can drive it.
I've managed to get taken out for a spin in it 4 times...and it's hard. :cry:
If you think a day is hard...try 12 months. :cry:
-
Eh! :huh:
Me not understand this comment?
I was just literally commenting on how long Neil has not been in his GTI....
After one day on not driving yours, you are pulling your hair out?
I have to look at mine sat there every day of the last 8 months...and there is still another 4+ to go before I can drive it.
I've managed to get taken out for a spin in it 4 times...and it's hard. :cry:
If you think a day is hard...try 12 months. :cry:
Ah, I see...that's hard man, you mind me asking why your unable to take yours out yourself?
Just tell me to mind my own bees if not :wink:
-
Ah, I see...that's hard man, you mind me asking why your unable to take yours out yourself?
Just tell me to mind my own bees if not :wink:
A small issue of an overtaken unmarked Police car, two lying Police officers, a grumpy Procurator Fiscal and a crusty of hag of a Sherrif having a bad day.
The result being the 'privilege' of 12 months on foot patrol, the 'opportunity' to re-sit my driving test and the pleasant feeling of having my bank account emptied to the tune of £950.
First offense too...otherwise completely clean licence.
Arse. :cry:
-
Ah, I see...that's hard man, you mind me asking why your unable to take yours out yourself?
Just tell me to mind my own bees if not :wink:
A small issue of an overtaken unmarked Police car, two lying Police officers, a grumpy Procurator Fiscal and a crusty of hag of a Sherrif having a bad day.
The result being the 'privilege' of 12 months on foot patrol, the 'opportunity' to re-sit my driving test and the pleasant feeling of having my bank account emptied to the tune of £950.
First offense too...otherwise completely clean licence.
Arse. :cry:
Sorry to take this off subject first and foremost!
But OMG! That's some real bad luck man, I feel for you esp as it was your first offence, this is where the justice system just stinks, I mean ok you got court out but the powers at be shud take your record into account when giving these sort of sentences out, if it was me I wud of thort points(maybe 6) and a fine...but to ban you... :angry:
Sorry to hear pal!
-
Personally, I wouldn't buy an R. It would be a shed load more money for, on the face of it, the same car. Interior is pretty much identical with blue in place of red, and external panels are pretty much the same too.
One of my neighbours has a Golf S and that's what he says about the GTi :laugh: :wink:
-
Personally, I wouldn't buy an R. It would be a shed load more money for, on the face of it, the same car. Interior is pretty much identical with blue in place of red, and external panels are pretty much the same too.
One of my neighbours has a Golf S and that's what he says about the GTi :laugh: :wink:
Yep, if we all took that attitude we would all be in standard Golfs.
I reckon if you want an R then the R is an upgrade from a GTI and therefore worth the money.
But if you simply want a better GTI, which is what I think the original post is more accurately pointing towards, stick with the GTI until such times as a suitably improved model has been released.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCfUFP4cgyw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCfUFP4cgyw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Debate settled! :laugh:
-
Well that's put that to bed then :smiley:
-
That was a 200 ps US GTI v 270 ps European R , i find that a bit hard to believe and that man couldn't change gear at all, what a jerkfest in both ways.
-
At the end of the day, in a pure drag race both cars put simiar to the wheels, because of the R's higher losses.
The R pulled away off the line...which it would do out of every tight corner on a normal road under most conditions.
The bottom line is, the R is quicker...maybe not by as much as peope think...but it's quicker.
More fun? That's debatable.
But in the hands of most competent drivers, the R will be quicker, more often.
-
that video is a good comparison of dsg vs manual.. that was proven with the mk5 already
lets see a GTI do this though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3bDkTmVwXs :grin:
-
I would wipe the floor in a drag race with me in a manual R in against a 200 ps dsg mk5 (as that is 200 ps in the video R v GTI) and id put my house on it.
-
I would wipe the floor in a drag race with me in a manual R in against a 200 ps dsg mk5 (as that is 200 ps in the video R v GTI) and id put my house on it.
An absolute clown driving, prolly left the aircon running to add to those fabulous changes!
-
I would wipe the floor in a drag race with me in a manual R in against a 200 ps dsg mk5 (as that is 200 ps in the video R v GTI) and id put my house on it.
I would wipe the floor in a drag race with a std gti in my slippers! they need to be mapped :tongue:
-
Ah, I see...that's hard man, you mind me asking why your unable to take yours out yourself?
Just tell me to mind my own bees if not :wink:
A small issue of an overtaken unmarked Police car, two lying Police officers, a grumpy Procurator Fiscal and a crusty of hag of a Sherrif having a bad day.
The result being the 'privilege' of 12 months on foot patrol, the 'opportunity' to re-sit my driving test and the pleasant feeling of having my bank account emptied to the tune of £950.
First offense too...otherwise completely clean licence.
Arse. :cry:
Ouch. I got averaged at 100.31mph in December 2010, was given 6 points and £200 fine. :cry: