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General => General discussion => Topic started by: dTEA on 04 March 2012, 22:26
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Just been forced to give up a Sponsorship for a degree I had applied for from my current employer. Turns out I'm expected to work 30hrs pw and then do another 32 totalling 62hrs pw which for me means no days off due to the additional study in my own time.
Non of it was properly explained prior to registering on the course and I never actually signed their contract (employers) due to no repayment fee mentioned but the repayment element was expected ie no fixed price.
I'm gonna argue the toss on this due to
- failure to make clear legal obligations N terms N conditions prior to enrolment
- legal requirement for non working day within 14 day period under working time directive (need to check if this is covered due to study.)
- failure to explain the full time degree as the advert they sent out said a working degree based route!
Anyone think this is a fair expectation? They seem to think I owe them money due to being forced off the course due to having 2 kids to care for nd they don't think they should offer any more study time than the 8hrs pw they are currently giving me.
I even looked at dropping a day work but the financial implications means my son would be home alone as I couldn't afford child care for the rest of the week!!!
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they only have to give you 8 hours pw study, i only get 8 hours a week. it is alot of work and alot to take on.
the degree which you applied for was that part time or full? if its a full time one try looking into the part time ones, i do 1 12 hour day plus about 12 hours self studying at home then work too. 32 hours seems a bit high for part time.
as for being fair i can see both sides of the story here, you should have looked into things more but on the other hand they should have explained it so on so on so on.
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62 hours PW over 7 days. cant you do the hours over 6 days and still have a day off ?
i wouldn't complain about those hours if someone else was paying for me to do a degree in something i was intrested in and would assist me in earning more money.
i've been doing 85-90 hour weeks for months now. tho it is a bit to much really keep on getting told to stop it for a bit
62 hours pw is quite easy to manage as long as some of them are doing something you want to do and enjoy, however if its doing something you dislike and find boreing you won't manage it.
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Seriously.... anything less that 80hrs per week and you have no room to complain. I do over 100 every week. Put in the work and get the reward. simple
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35 hours a week. Textbook :smiley:
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You lot ain't got a clue bout working time directive then. Have you? There is a limit to the hours that can be expected. If you opt out that's up to you. I would never opt out as then my lot would be asking me to do over night shifts on top of the days.
Yes it's a full time course and I have two kids: anyone else actually want to see their kids grow up? Or are you single or childless?
And as for 100hrw pw :grin: don't make me laugh that's 14hr days over 7.
Plus I offered to complete over a longer term and got told no. Even thought about dropping a day but as I say, then I can't afford childcare.
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100hr weeks do happen, especially if you're self employed. My dad and uncle have done them in the past when necessary for their business. There was a contractor at the refinery last year doing 80+hr weeks to get his job done on time. Not saying that you have to do a 100hr week or anything, but people do work those hours.
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100hr weeks do happen, especially if you're self employed. My dad and uncle have done them in the past when necessary for their business. There was a contractor at the refinery last year doing 80+hr weeks to get his job done on time. Not saying that you have to do a 100hr week or anything, but people do work those hours.
Alot of the time with contracting and self employment you are fully reaping the benifits from working these hours. My boss used to work almost douple his quota when contracting in say sthingyhorpe, aberdeen or out on the rigs simply because it was boring not to - sthingyhorpe isnt the greatest place to be stuck in digs in afterall. If you love your job you never work another day in your life...
(classic case of 'sucnthorpe syndrome' above haha
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I love my kids more and work to live not live to work :wink:
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I love my kids more and work to live not live to work :wink:
+1
100 hrs pw = you are stupid, gullible or are self employed and fortunate enough to be reaping the money in
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I dont disagree with you wanting to see your kids... however in most cases people who chose to not put in the work now will find themselves putting it in later. Hopefully when I am sat in a much sunnier place possibly on a yatch somewhere hitting golf balls into the sea :cool:
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The guy wants some constructive advice. Lets not turn this into a willy waving contest about who works the most hours.
Its hardly a title to boast about is it?
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The guy wants some constructive advice. Lets not turn this into a willy waving contest about who works the most hours.
Its hardly a title to boast about is it?
No one said it was.. only making the point that if you want to progress then you have to give that little bit more sometimes. In reply to the original OP, the three points you made are really for you to check,and not for them to highlight to you.
If I was your employer and had coughed up money for you to attend the course, only to be told by you that you dont want to do it now as you are not willing to work a 7 days week... then I too would push for the money back. Although on this occasion you may be able to get away with it as no contract was signed (although as an employer I would be mighty pi$$ed at this).
Just to highlight... you really should of asked yourself some of these questions before you signed up. I can appreciate wanting to spend time with family.... but dont expect others to be out of pocket for no gain other than yours, as ultimately this is what this is. Although I can understand your dilema, YOU are the only person in the wrong here.
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I dont disagree with you wanting to see your kids... however in most cases people who chose to not put in the work now will find themselves putting it in later. Hopefully when I am sat in a much sunnier place possibly on a yatch somewhere hitting golf balls into the sea :cool:
you won't get very far with that spelling!
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I dont disagree with you wanting to see your kids... however in most cases people who chose to not put in the work now will find themselves putting it in later. Hopefully when I am sat in a much sunnier place possibly on a yatch somewhere hitting golf balls into the sea :cool:
you won't get very far with that spelling!
the spell checker has already been invented pal. you may wish to find a new line of work.
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The guy wants some constructive advice. Lets not turn this into a willy waving contest about who works the most hours.
Its hardly a title to boast about is it?
No one said it was.. only making the point that if you want to progress then you have to give that little bit more sometimes. In reply to the original OP, the three points you made are really for you to check,and not for them to highlight to you.
If I was your employer and had coughed up money for you to attend the course, only to be told by you that you dont want to do it now as you are not willing to work a 7 days week... then I too would push for the money back. Although on this occasion you may be able to get away with it as no contract was signed (although as an employer I would be mighty pi$$ed at this).
Just to highlight... you really should of asked yourself some of these questions before you signed up. I can appreciate wanting to spend time with family.... but dont expect others to be out of pocket for no gain other than yours, as ultimately this is what this is. Although I can understand your dilema, YOU are the only person in the wrong here.
disagree with virtually everything you said.
1. It was an open invite to do a sponsorship with with no definition of how many hours I would be expected. The OU themselves say that it is too much to expect, especially as the hours I am working is the hours expected to study or thereabouts.
2. I also don't expect my job ever to pay big money just enough to be comfortable and raise my kids :smiley:
3. Them asking for money is like saying here is a job but we forgot to mention you will work 62hrs instead of 37hrs. Would you not consider them in breach??
That's what I was looking for...obviously on my own in this type of thinking.
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Although I can see your point I would say in response..
1. As said by others it may have been wise to look in to this before undertaking the course. I imagine your company will probably use this to recover any investment they have made. Again not sure how valid this may be, but if you put yourself in their position I am sure this is what most people will do.
As companies become more stringent with costs, I would expect them to be quite thorough with this. Although I do not know the nature of your companies business so could not say if this will be the case.
2. I understand your point totally.
3. As said in point one, they will probably try argue that if they are giving you the required amount of study time then they are sufficient in their roll. Again open to interpretation.. I imagine they, like yourself, expected a return from their investment and are entitled to reclaim any cost.
I hope that provides you with a little bit more advice like you were originally looking for and in doing so provides you with the thoughs of a neutral person. Should this go any further then I imagine a judge will look along the same lines. This of course depends on further evidence and the angle you both undertake. I just imagine (depending on their outlay) that this will not be as straight forward as most would imagine.
Good luck either way :smiley:
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Cheers. I am probably as hacked off as they are about this as I really want this degree. But none of my close friends can see how it can be done bar my suggestion of reducing the amount of study and spreading it over a couple of extra years. When I signed up as well, it was an open invite to the point I didn't even know it was OU route. I thought I was going to a Uni for 1-2days per week.
All said I can see your point tho, but I'll be battling as really would like them to come up with a solution that means I can stay on it and complete....if not tho I will do my damnedest to make sure that they don't get money off me. Had it been a job advert theyd be screwed I think. Already had a chat with my Union who beleive it was unrealistic study period without being explicit about expectations
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good to hear you have the union on your side.. hopefully they will be able to help you negotiate, possibly for something neutral which keeps everyone happy :cool: