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General => General discussion => Topic started by: Sam on 15 December 2011, 09:21

Title: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: Sam on 15 December 2011, 09:21
Just curious  :smiley:
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: Horney on 15 December 2011, 09:30
Nothing, it was an all new design. The MKI Scirocco is based on the MKI floor pans.

Nick
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: Sam on 15 December 2011, 09:42
Quote from: Horney on 15 December 2011, 09:30
Nothing, it was an all new design. The MKI Scirocco is based on the MKI floor pans.

Nick

I knew about the rocco, i'm talking about what car vw looked at and thought 'yes, thats the way forward' and designed the mk1 off the back of it.
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: Horney on 15 December 2011, 09:44
Nothing I'm aware of, it was one of the first proper FWD boxy hatchbacks. The only hatch I can think that pe-dates it is the Talbot Sunbeam but that was RWD. The MKI Fiesta and MKI Astra followed later.

Nick
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: SoundillusioN on 15 December 2011, 09:45
Quote from: Sam on 15 December 2011, 09:42
Quote from: Horney on 15 December 2011, 09:30
Nothing, it was an all new design. The MKI Scirocco is based on the MKI floor pans.

Nick

I knew about the rocco, i'm talking about what car vw looked at and thought 'yes, thats the way forward' and designed the mk1 off the back of it.

Wait a sec................................
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: RandomJord on 15 December 2011, 09:49
Giugiaro designed it, neh VW
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: SoundillusioN on 15 December 2011, 10:12
The beetle was old and needed to be replaced,

In the late 60's with Porsche design help VW come up with something that carried over some similarities to the beetle, this first concept was rear engined still but with a sideways mounted water-cooled engine and RWD.


I bring you the E266 concept

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9WahVEDrP8c/TuJnaYZxRLI/AAAAAAAADYc/AULrc_44eo8/s1600/96d3a74af6.jpg)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/-V9Tb2Kv2foU/TrHTszNwpDI/AAAAAAAAAlE/GyUGcAzdtts/ea266a.jpg)

It didn't go into production. *phew*

Then a chap called Heinz Nordhoff helped design another prototype that has a hint of the Mk1 Golf we know and love, this now had a transverse mounted engine up front and FWD.

I bring you the E276 Prototype

(http://www.history-of-cars.com/images/vw/1969-ea-276-4.jpg)

(http://www.history-of-cars.com/images/vw/1969-ea-276-3.jpg)

(http://www.history-of-cars.com/images/vw/1969-ea-276-2.jpg)

(http://www.history-of-cars.com/images/vw/1969-ea-276-5.jpg)

Heinz Nordhoff later died and his car died with him

Then of course Giorgetto Giugiaro got VW on the right track by designing the MK1 Golf Which then started production in 1975

(http://www.dazultra.co.uk/eurotrip2/15/IMG_4680.jpg)

(http://www.dazultra.co.uk/eurotrip2/15/IMG_4716.jpg)






Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: Sam on 15 December 2011, 17:14
The arse is just a rear ended mk1

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/-V9Tb2Kv2foU/TrHTszNwpDI/AAAAAAAAAlE/GyUGcAzdtts/ea266a.jpg)

Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: RandomJord on 15 December 2011, 17:23
Hmm they look very much like 'Yugos' for those what remembers them!

I remember them too well, when they went under my grandad ended up with a warehouse full of them as he rented it to zastava or something.

But I digress....
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: travisreeve on 15 December 2011, 17:26
I want an E266.. There ugly but THERE COOL  :grin:
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: lewis1641 on 15 December 2011, 17:55
i think the brasilia was the closest model visually to a mk1. you can certainly see where they were heading
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: Seanl on 15 December 2011, 18:24
Quote from: RandomJord on 15 December 2011, 17:23
Hmm they look very much like 'Yugos' for those what remembers them!

I remember them too well, when they went under my grandad ended up with a warehouse full of them as he rented it to zastava or something.

But I digress....

I was thinking exactly the same.  :grin: not sure vw would be where they are today off the back of that as a hot hatch!
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: SoundillusioN on 15 December 2011, 19:28
Quote from: travisreeve on 15 December 2011, 17:26
I want an E266.. There ugly but THERE COOL  :grin:

If it was at all possible to get your hands on one it would be a fun car to play with as it's RWD and designed for a rear mounted, water-cooled motor. Decent colour, rims and the infamous lowering stick and you've got yourself more scene points than you could possibly wish for.  It's rumored that this car had 105bhp which to me sounds ridiculous for what was meant be a "peoples car".  (it is fecking ugly though) 
Someone should tart it up in photoshop. :cool:

Quote from: Seanl on 15 December 2011, 18:24
Quote from: RandomJord on 15 December 2011, 17:23
Hmm they look very much like 'Yugos' for those what remembers them!

I remember them too well, when they went under my grandad ended up with a warehouse full of them as he rented it to zastava or something.

But I digress....

I was thinking exactly the same.  :grin: not sure vw would be where they are today off the back of that as a hot hatch!

There is some Yugo in there but I cant help but think head on it shares the front of a Lada Riva!  :sick:

The MK1 golf was never conceived to be a Hot Hatch, merely a beetle replacement for the masses. A cheap practical runaround that was desirable enough for everybody to want one.  VW were not interested in making this something Sporty.

We are very lucky that the GTI was ever conceived, it was only a spare time pet project by engineers borrowing various bits and bobs from the VAG parts bin rather than a serious project from marketing numpties which is where a lot of sports cars usually start their lives. 

I could go on and on about the history of this car................................  :nerd:

Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: DOA on 16 December 2011, 19:27
The Yugo's were just Fiat 127's re-badged and made cheaper in the Eastern Block. You can certainly see the resemblence in those concepts and the Fiat came first and had the FWD layout first too...... What a horrid thought  :sick:
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: SoundillusioN on 17 December 2011, 00:14
Quote from: DOA on 16 December 2011, 19:27
The Yugo's were just Fiat 127's re-badged and made cheaper in the Eastern Block. You can certainly see the resemblence in those concepts and the Fiat came first and had the FWD layout first too...... What a horrid thought  :sick:

Good old fiat, paved the way for many cheap cars, Like the Lada, wasn't that the old Fiat 124?
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: Mortimer Hill on 17 December 2011, 03:46
Quote from: Horney on 15 December 2011, 09:44
Nothing I'm aware of, it was one of the first proper FWD boxy hatchbacks. The only hatch I can think that pe-dates it is the Talbot Sunbeam but that was RWD. The MKI Fiesta and MKI Astra followed later.

Nick

The Chrysler / Talbot Sunbeam was after the Golf, being introduced in 1977 and was heavily based on the Avenger. Like the Chevette, which was introduced in 75, it was rear wheel drive.

The hatches that pre dated the Golf included: Austin Maxi, Renault 16, Renault 5

Where the Golf set the standard was that it was the first car to combine all the element that define the modern hatch:

Hatchback
Front Wheel Drive
Transverse Engine
Gearbox next to the engine
Macpherson strut suspension.

There had been cars that had one or more of these, but not all of them.
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: thai-wronghorse on 17 December 2011, 07:48
I do love reading all about this stuff.  :smiley:
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: DOA on 17 December 2011, 10:00
Quote from: SoundillusioN on 17 December 2011, 00:14
Good old fiat, paved the way for many cheap cars, Like the Lada, wasn't that the old Fiat 124?

Yeah, I think it was the Fiat 124/131 that they were based on. It was also used for the FSO Polonez as well as others and the 500/600 also got used elsewhere in things like the Steyr Puch etc. There was a lot of this sort of thing going on back in the 70's and 80's, I remember finding a Mk2 Cortina in the form of some other Eastern Block car (cant remember the name now lol) and nicking the uprights off it for future use.

Quote from: Mortimer Hill on 17 December 2011, 03:46
Where the Golf set the standard was that it was the first car to combine all the element that define the modern hatch:

Hatchback
Front Wheel Drive
Transverse Engine
Gearbox next to the engine
Macpherson strut suspension.

There had been cars that had one or more of these, but not all of them.

Unfortunately, the 127 had all of those........

I always wanted a 127 Sport as they weighed fook all and would have seen off a friends Talbot Samba Rallye and nearly bought a left hooker once for about £200 in pretty good nick, I just couldnt get on with the left hand drive though.
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: VW BUSH on 17 December 2011, 13:44
What about the mini? FWD made for the masses.............................copy of a WW2 VW  :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: What was the MK1 Golf Based on?
Post by: SoundillusioN on 17 December 2011, 16:03
Well I wasn't expecting this to turn into who actually made the first official "peoples" car, or the first small popular car that sported FWD, transverse mounted engines etc.   Originally this thread was about the roots of the Golf.   In the Golfs defense I would say that it can't be compared to something like a mini, to me they are in a different league. 

The original Mini was exactly what it's name suggests, a Mini, a supermini even. Yes it could seat 4/5 people at a push, was small, practical, economical, fwd and very popular etc etc, but it had a tiny boot, and when in the car you really did feel like you were in a mini.

The golf on the other hand was overall more practical, providing a comfortable sized cabin that often made you feel like you were in a bigger car, 5 door option, generous boot with a hatchback, was safer and over time offered many luxuries a mini or similar couldn't offer.  To me the MK1 golf was arguably the most practical and fun to own leader in the hatchback market of it's time and held on to this title for a very long time.

 :cool: