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General => General discussion => Topic started by: ortega277 on 06 November 2011, 11:10
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Alright guys this questions prob been asked so many times and your all prob getting the hump with it but I've looked and can't find it anywhere. I have a 1.8 8v and was just wondering what would be the easiest conversion to do. As I really want some more power. Thanks in advance.
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Depends on your skills and budget.
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2.0l 8v would be the easiest
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Skills not so much but friends that know a fair amount.
Budget around a grand maybe stretch a bit more if I had to.
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VR6 :wink:
Pick yourself up a donor car and swap over everything needed :cool:
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Any Golf3 engine.
Especially one that comes with a Golf3 around it, as it'll save a lot of head-scratching mid-conversion. :grin:
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Oh right are all the mounts the same then? Obv if I put a bigger lump in I'll need to change brakes etc
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buy a full 16v or VR6 thats a mot fail or whatever, swap all parts over.. could do it in a day or 2 mate
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Starting my engine conversion and it's stupidly easy so far, its an abf. And I have no skills, so just any engine that will drop straight in really.
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Sweet this is sounding good to me. Had a vr6 about 4 months ago had so much done to it was running around 220bhp let it go for penny's like a d1ck. Would have been perfect.
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Vr6 with so much done! Like what?
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I don't know much about engines to be honest but there was Schrick cams exhaust etc lots of internals Updated.
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think the 220 hp would have been a bit over a over estimate in reality...
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I had a wagon just like yours untill it was killed by a VR6 conversion :cry: If I had kept the car my choice for my old wagon would have been a 16v ABF.Unless you have loads of spare cash to feed a VR6 I would go with a ABF and the VR6 ent that much quicker anyhow.
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It was stupidly quick used to eat vxrs and scoobys. I don't think I'd go for a vr6 as the insurance is crazy. Was talking to a friend earlier and he mentioned a td lump and something about a basic remap plus exhaust taking it up to the 150 bhp mark is this true?
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I'd probably say an abf as well, simply due to the fuel costs, with fuel costs only ever going to go up they could be very expensive to run
you can still do some pretty funky stuff to an abf, check tshirt2k build thread :cool:
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A deisel PD conversion would be good and as said a remap will see decent figures plus it would be something different not sure if you would get it done for a grand though unless you can buy a donar car cheap enough.My 115bhp pulls well and it hasnt had a remap yet you would still have good MPG aswell
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That's what I was thinking get a good mpg with a diesel. He also said the torque would be good as well.
Dan would you be able to link me to tshirt 2k thread please as I can't find it. Thanks
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Vr6 conversion, simple enough to sort with a donor car.
PD conversion will be a ball ache wiring wise.
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click his pic mate, links it to it. I'd only pd a mk2 if I was doing long motorway miles. mates a got pd140 and averages 35mpg lol, as he just drives it around town, sometimes boots it about though,..,
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to do what Russ (tShirt2k) has done you will be spending a few k more than likely
would be easier to fit 1.8T
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To fit a 1.8t surely will need custom mounts right? Or am I wrong.
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To fit a 1.8t surely will need custom mounts right? Or am I wrong.
I think it will fit all ok with VR mounts.
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1.8t just needs 16v mk3 brackets and vr6 mounts, though a lot of places are now selling vr6 mounts as standard for all models. I got a full set of febi off tierod69 for £50
The 1.8t bolts into the mk4 on the same front bracket as a mk3 as this is attached to the gearbox/starter motor, but also has a side bracket which isnt there on the mk3. All you have to do is unbolt this side bracket and fit the 16v rear bracket into the fixing holes that are already on the 1.8t. Gearbox rear bracket is also the same as the mk3 as you will be running a mk3 02a gearbox
Its pretty straightforward tbh probably no more complicated than fitting a vr6, just more money and a few more bits and pieces need changing over
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That's what I was thinking get a good mpg with a diesel. He also said the torque would be good as well.
Dan would you be able to link me to tshirt 2k thread please as I can't find it. Thanks
Click the sig below. :wink: it's not easy. But the base engine can give you options. ~160hp for a scrapyard engine for around £300 ain't to bad and can be fairly economical.
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Cool man cheers for the advise guys been really helpful might look into the 1.8t then would be a bit different in a wagon. In terms of insurance what's the deal? Would it be just like insuring a 1.8t or is it more coz in theory it's a custom car.
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In terms of insurance what's the deal? Would it be just like insuring a 1.8t or is it more coz in theory it's a custom car.
More as it is a conversion, you will need to find a specialist company.
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VR6 mounts not as good as 16v mounts, rear drivers side is uprated on 16v
you are looking at 2.5k plus to do it right and thats if u do the work yourself
if u choose the ABF route, i have a full setup minus gearbox for sale, loom, ecu, engine etc for £250
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Why would the 16v mount be stronger than the vr6 one?
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Why would the 16v mount be stronger than the vr6 one?
just are, only the rear drivers side, it is heavy duty, same one as used on TDI also.
VR6 uses exactly the same as 8v GTI all 3 of them, i know because iv checked into all the part numbers that were on my 8v and also on the VR6 high line we broke.. i then checked with the dealer and it was confirmed the rear drivers mount on the ABF is uprated and this is the one to use :wink: it looked a lot different to the 8v/VR6 item when it arrived too
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Why would the 16v mount be stronger than the vr6 one?
just are, only the rear drivers side, it is heavy duty, same one as used on TDI also.
VR6 uses exactly the same as 8v GTI all 3 of them, i know because iv checked into all the part numbers that were on my 8v and also on the VR6 high line we broke.. i then checked with the dealer and it was confirmed the rear drivers mount on the ABF is uprated and this is the one to use :wink: it looked a lot different to the 8v/VR6 item when it arrived too
That's not what ETKA says. Looking from the front of the car, the front mount is a different part number for a VR than the other engines. The rear left is also different. The rear right, the AAA, ABF and 1Z are the same.
VR mounts i would of thought are stronger to cope with the extra weight, the letter at the end of the part number is different, i expect thats what it means.
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Drivers side rear on a 1995.
1H0 199 262 B - ABF, ADY, AEK, 2E, AEP, AAZ
1H0 199 262 K - AAA
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That's not what ETKA says. Looking from the front of the car, the front mount is a different part number for a VR than the other engines. The rear left is also different. The rear right, the AAA, ABF and 1Z are the same.
VR mounts i would of thought are stronger to cope with the extra weight, the letter at the end of the part number is different, i expect thats what it means.
:smiley: that is correct the front mount is 100% different, all to do with the extra torque.
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Wrong
call the dealer you will see.. they are now all the same on the VR and 8v. trust me iv actually changed mounts on a VR have either of you too ? your etka is wrong their.. And their is no way on this earth the 2E has the same rear drivers side mount as a ABF... absolutly no way.. mine was a 2E. the mount was night and day different to the ABF one i got. i can dig out the part numbers if need be
Front mount on VR is same as 8v.. believe!!!...it has nothing to do with extra torque eitrher haha its about the weight and how the engine sits in the bay height wise......
We put the 8v. VR6 ones and the new 16v items i got all together. the only one that was different out of them all was the rear drivers one for the ABF. it is uprated and looks different, really easy to see
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Wrong
Keep your hair on, its only what ETKA quotes.
call the dealer you will see
That's exactly why i've got ETKA, the dealers are generally totally useless.
they are now all the same on the VR and 8v
Part numbers the same yes, but the letter at the end is different, so they are NOT the same.
trust me iv actually changed mounts on a VR have either of you too ?
:grin: Now come on, i think you know i've changed engine mounts :grin:
your etka is wrong their.. And their is no way on this earth the 2E has the same rear drivers side mount as a ABF... absolutly no way.. mine was a 2E. the mount was night and day different to the ABF one i got. i can dig out the part numbers if need be
I very much doubt the ETKA is wrong Brad, its 7.2 update 804, its a fairly new version. I don't know what was on your car, but it could of been modified at some point. The part numbers i have listed are what should be on the car.
Front mount on VR is same as 8v.. believe!!!...it has nothing to do with extra torque eitrher haha its about the weight and how the engine sits in the bay height wise......
Its got everything to do with torque. Watch what happens when the front mount fails, the engine tries to leap out. The front mount on the vr has to be stronger, the part number IS different.
We put the 8v. VR6 ones and the new 16v items i got all together. the only one that was different out of them all was the rear drivers one for the ABF. it is uprated and looks different, really easy to see
Yes, yes, they may look the same, but are they the same strength, is the part number EXACTLY the same, including the letter at the end?
Was the 16v mount the original mount? what was the part number? i will check it.
Just to add, Brad, there is no need to get so aggressive about things. I've only quoted the part numbers, i doubt they are wrong. It is a pretty new version of ETKA.
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All original mount
went through all this with the dealer, who also happens to be my mate
side by side the mounts were ALL exactly the same. apart from the uprated one that the 16v car has at the drivers rear, the TDI apparently also uses this according to the dealership
nobody is getting aggressive, if it comes across that way ill apologise :smiley: - we are all friends. But, I'm going by experience which you don't seem to want to listen to, i hear you totally and i thought the same but i went through all this more than once with the dealer and then with 2 other suppers just to make sure (ECP,GSF)
Then wayne who said the front VR6 are 100% different when they actually are not.. people need to not say stuff like this if they don't really know. and that is not having a go at wayne as he is my mate.. so i hope he does not take that the wrong way.. ill dig out my invoices and look at the part numbers, one i received first was wrong as they sent a 8v one i do remember this much :smiley:
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Yeah i do hear you Brad, its not that i don't want to listen to you, i'm only going on the info in front of me. The version of ETKA covers 2011 cars, so its pretty new.
My experience of main dealers hasn't been great, most don't know there arse from their elbow.
Side by side the mounts will look the same, its the letter at the end that is different, this usually means a modification or revision, i would suggest a difference in strength.
Wayne meant the vr6 front mount is stronger, not that it looks totally different, as the design is the same.
Is your drivers side rear mount a hydro mount rather than a bonded rubber bush?
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Vagcat seems to be the same.
http://www.vagcat.com/epc/cat/vw/GO/1995/159/49/1813637/#20
Which mount is the one on your 16v?
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The ones that were on my MK3 originally were in fantastic shape, now i don't know if they had been replaced at some point but they were exactly the same as what was on Bens 8v too... so he kept mine for his conversion, so basically he has my old 8v ones on his VR6 which is all good and no issues
We checked the part numbers from the ones that was on my car originally against the ones that were on the VR6 donor car he had which was a 1997. they were all exactly the same. the back 2 exactly the same part numbers. as was the front
Back onto my car.
The green 16v car i bought for the Gearbox had the same gearbox mount at the rear and the same front mount as my 8v. but the rear drivers side looked ALOT different.
the ones i bought (genuine 16 v mounts all 3) were exactly the same as what we found on the Green 16v car, only the drivers rear was different from the 8v/Vr items
its worth noting the VR has the same hydro set up and gearbox as a 16v.. i was definitely told by a guy at Eurocarparts and my mate who works at VW (who is usually pretty good tbh) that the rear drivers mount on the 16v is uprated and this is why everyone uses them for the 1.8t conversions.. it was then when he told me the TDI uses the same ?
i would image you could use the 8v /Vr ones but i kept all mine to 16v as research showed this is the best route to take also
they did send me a regular 8v one for drivers rear first, and id never have known it was different if i had not seen the one on the green 16v car.
I will see what is on the black ABF we are breaking at the moment, I'm going down this week so ill be sure to post up the codes and see if its the same as whats on mine :wink:
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So your 16v was fitted with the hydro mount or the bonded rubber bush?
You said part number were the same, is that included in the end letter as well?
If the part number i quoted are wrong, then its a bug in the software, i checked for updates and my version is the latest.
Its always been 100% accurate, same as the dealer uses.
Get some part number up :smiley:
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iv just registered witht hat vagcat thing so i await confirmation.
i have my recites from all the bits on my car, but they are not here with me. but ill get some part numbers for sure. will also take the ones off the black 16v car thats currently in bits - the subframe is in the mk2 with the old mounts in place still. I'm ordering all new ones tomo so i can check the old with the new etc
i don't know what you mean about the hydro mount ? hydro bits don't go nowhere near any of the engine mounts.. ?
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i don't know what you mean about the hydro mount ? hydro bits don't go nowhere near any of the engine mounts.. ?
According to ETKA the drivers rear mount is a hydro mount on the 1Z engine, which i believe is a diesel.
Hydro mounts are fluid filled and absorb more vibration, the standard mount is a bonded rubber bush.
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong :smiley:
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Im not sure TBH mate, the passenger rear deffo is as bens old one was leaking
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i don't know what you mean about the hydro mount ? hydro bits don't go nowhere near any of the engine mounts.. ?
According to ETKA the drivers rear mount is a hydro mount on the 1Z engine, which i believe is a diesel.
Hydro mounts are fluid filled and absorb more vibration, the standard mount is a bonded rubber bush.
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong :smiley:
Standard VR front mount is hydro, you can get a solid replacment but it makes the car very harsh.
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I used a few hockey pucks to replace the Swiss cheese from mount on mine.
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-VW-GOLF-MK3-REAR-ENGINE-MOUNTING-1H0-199-262-B-/400227139550?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5d2f657fde
We sure they aren't the same and some have just been updated and the 16V one was just the updated one?
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-VW-GOLF-MK3-REAR-ENGINE-MOUNTING-1H0-199-262-B-/400227139550?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5d2f657fde
We sure they aren't the same and some have just been updated and the 16V one was just the updated one?
what do you mean mate?
also, that looks like the front one in the pic
my rear one don't look like that.. ill take pics of the ones i buy this time for the MK2 conversion as I'm using the MK3 rear ones.. see what they look like this time
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Very strange. That mount should be right for an ABF.
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Just to confirm, the front engine mount on my 8v and the VR donor I bought were exactly the same part numbers :cool:
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Just to confirm, the front engine mount on my 8v and the VR donor I bought were exactly the same part numbers :cool:
What was the code on them?
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ha ha, now your asking :grin: :grin:
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We have established that part numbers are the same, the end letter is different.
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Found it :smiley:
Vibra Technics was the company I was thinking off.
4 cyl: http://www.vibra-technics.co.uk/vw/golf_jetta_vento_mk_iii/339/VAG940M/front_engine_mount_4_cyl
VR6: http://www.vibra-technics.co.uk/vw/golf_jetta_vento_mk_iii/340/VAG950M/front_engine_mount_vr6
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Vibra ones have nothing to do with OEM ones tho :undecided:
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Vibra ones have nothing to do with OEM ones tho :undecided:
I know but thought it might be handy for people looking for uprated ones. :smiley:
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Yeah deffo
Right iv just seen my mate at vw who is a mechanic their. The letters do mean a difference. They mean some are for automatic cars due to the weight. It has nothin to do with the torque tho
Rear VR ones on a manual car are same as 8v front has slightly harder rubber
16 valve front is different again but passenger rear is same
Drivers rear is as I said different, the only 8v that would use this mount is a automatic car due to weight
Hope this helps clear it up.. Seems we were all right and Wrong :nerd:
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The letters are for different engines as well as auto/manual boxes. For example vr6 has a different letter to the 8v/16v front mount, probably because of the extra weight.
Did you get on vagcat.com?
Have a look and you'll see what i mean :smiley:
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My account hasn't been verified yet but I will do once I get chance. He did mention the weight of the VR is further forward so it makes sence for it to be up rated where as the weight of the ABF must be toward the back.
Either way the 20vt sits like the ABF so I still always choose these for conversions. Just ordered both rears (16vmk3) for out MK2 conversion and a mk2 16v one. (£155+vat for this alone :shocked:)
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So in conclusion, the mounts look the same and have the same part number, except the last letter.
The letter changes for the different engines.
Whatever way you look at it, mounts for the vr are uprated, whether you believe this to be just down to weight or extra torque.
In my opinion if you are going to run big power, at least an uprated front mount is a must.
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no only the front one is different he said, and its minimal difference too, some of the other letters are revisions, the rear drivers one on the ABF is uprated over the VR..
Look on Club GTI, everyone uses the 16v ones as this are more suited to the 20VT.. this is why i chose to use them, its not about power, its about the weight and the VR lump sits well forward to the other engines :smiley:
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I couldn't tell you the differences, only that the part numbers listed are different!
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when you start looking at the finer detail of the engine mounts really if your fitting a higher power 20vt you should ditch the std mk2/3 mounts completly and dangel the engine on pendulum mounts as it's done in the mk4 and then use a dogbone to keep the enigne in the correct place.
had issues before on moke pokey mk2 conversions with excessive enigne movement useing the std mount locations as TBH hey are crap and had to fabricate a dogbone to keep the enigne firmly in it's hole.
solid frount mounts are also a fail, of it's pushing any power the bracket between the engine and mount just snaps.
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when you start looking at the finer detail of the engine mounts really if your fitting a higher power 20vt you should ditch the std mk2/3 mounts completly and dangel the engine on pendulum mounts as it's done in the mk4 and then use a dogbone to keep the enigne in the correct place.
had issues before on moke pokey mk2 conversions with excessive enigne movement useing the std mount locations as TBH hey are crap and had to fabricate a dogbone to keep the enigne firmly in it's hole.
solid frount mounts are also a fail, of it's pushing any power the bracket between the engine and mount just snaps.
So you would agree that what mounts used is to do with engine power not just weight? :grin:
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^of course. Greater torsion requires a tougher mount/bracket. But then some vary engine to engine (specifically when talking about hydrospastic mounts) due to dampening requirements.
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Standard mounting locations are fine on Mk2 or Mk3, no reason their would be excessive movement unless you are using very cheap mounts
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Standard mounting locations are fine on Mk2 or Mk3, no reason their would be excessive movement unless you are using very cheap mounts
Speaking from what exactly and for what engine?
I guess now you've completed one engine conversion you know all you need. :rolleyes:
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ones done so far are 16v abf, VR6, AGU, BAM/AMK actually.... and as it says, Mk2 or MK3
sooon to be doing scooby do into a old camper
plus no matter how many iv done, I'm driving round in mine every day which is high output.. iv done more than enough miles to know all is good
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Funny how people with more experience seem to think different.
Maybe you should look up Nige Pinder's thread on your beloved Club GTI. Now there's someone who's done some serious testing.
Do come back when you've done a bit more than the little you've now done.
You might be slightly less wet behind the ears.
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ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Sorry, I think you have mistaken me for somebody that actually gives a f**k what you think.....
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big power motors will try jump out the engine bay if you use std mount locations no matter what mounts you use. the mount locations are at the end of the day crap.
swing the motor on pendulum mounts and all is better will handel much more power. there is a reason why most oem's use pendulum mounts vw switced to them and the mk2 and 3 vwm cars used pendulum mounts.
scooby into camper is old and boreing now, DH did one of them some years ago. try doing something without a how2 guide :smiley:
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Why does it always have to turn into a pissing contest? Or a, "My D1ck is bigger than urs" competition:rolleyes: