GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: The Doc on 26 October 2011, 23:22
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As the title says, Have you ever had a warranty claim rejected due to having a remap?
By a remap I mean software only not a giant turbo and a side exit exhaust :grin:And no, I know a bloke who's mates dog had the warranty on his dogs collar revoked because he'd remapped his sat nav etc
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Great question
No doubt prompted by my recent PM and my breakdown thread.
I'd by interested too.
Also, how can they tell if you've had a remap? Does their software flash red and sirens go off?!
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Great question
No doubt prompted by my recent PM and my breakdown thread.
I'd by interested too.
Also, how can they tell if you've had a remap? Does their software flash red and sirens go off?!
Of course - they use a remap detector, similar to a sonic screwdriver :wink:
Ive been told that the guys that void warrantys have a special uniform.....
(http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/frontsquare/i_void_warranties.jpg)
I've had far too long a day to go into this here and now - when I get an hour I'll write up a big fat document on it - for PM's only though as we don't want everyone knowing the dark secrets :wink:
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Found the pesky sign now too.....
(http://www.catcams.co.uk/acatalog/remapped-ECU-icon.png)
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^^ love the above.
Off to bed with a smile on my face ;)
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My wifes previous 307 HDI had been superchipped from around 5k miles. We had one claim within the warranty period, it was a pressure sensor on the FAP, and another out of warranty claim when the car was 4 years old. It was a common issue with the DMF that in certain cases (customer persistence) Peugeot would replace as "good will", even before it totally failed.
The dealer knew all along that the car had been remapped and had said that it could have accelerated both issues, but thought it would be better not to let on to Peugeot HQ about it. I guess it all depends how well you get on with the dealer. Or maybe us rural red necks just like to look out for each other.
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I know Fiat/Abarth check the flash counters in the 1.4 Tjets and if the counter dont match there database its an instant void of warranty, if its an engine or transmission claim.
My local BMW dealer map there demo cars..lol :grin:
As for VW and there warranty with remaps.
I tell all customers who ask me the warranty question to come clean and tell there dealer the car has been mapped and by them having a remap is the risk they take with there warranty.
If you come clean about the remap you will find the dealer will work with you nad help you more, but if you lie to them and they find its remapped then they could get the arse. ( dealers are getting money from VW HQ for its money in the bag for them taking on warranty work)
As far as I know I have never had a customer with a failed warranty claim with a remap.
If there was a case to answer I think they would technically need to prove the remap caused the fault? Ie if 100 stock cars have been in for warrnaty work for the same fault then how can they blame the remap when is more commom on stock engines?
If your confident about your tuner then you should not need to hide the matter of the remap.
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I voted NO to having a 'Warranty' claim rejected, but the claim at the time was insurance based and not warranty. My - Chipped (prior to my owning) - PD150 Bora had been stolen/recovered and had gone to the local VW dealership for - what they called - a health check, prior to the car being returned to me and it was instigated by my insurers.
I assume it was a quick looksee around the car for any obvious damage, but I also assume they had a poke around for any fault codes showing..... whether that would show signs of a re-map I don't know, but I was a *bit* worried at the time.
BTW, All was 'healthy' - what that means for a car that's done in excess of 110K I'm not sure?!
Which raises another issue.....
I buy a second hand car and get it insured.
It gets written off for whatever reason.
My insurance Co tell me it's been re-mapped and refuse to pay out.....
How the hell am I to know that I bought a chipped car in the first place??
When I purchased my GTD I asked my insurers (a very well known company) what their views were on re-mapped vehicles, to which they replied "What's that then?? What do you mean"... :shocked:
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As far as I know there is no good authority who can say the car has been remapped for power, who the insurance companies can use to void a claim?
Take a look at the Fabia VRS 130pd, out the bag with out a remap they make closer to 152bhp stock.
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As far as I know there is no good authority who can say the car has been remapped for power, who the insurance companies can use to void a claim?
Take a look at the Fabia VRS 130pd, out the bag with out a remap they make closer to 152bhp stock.
That's fair enough..... But if the mapping isn't 'stock'... as it came from the factory (or any kosher dealer 'upgrades') then any insurer is going to (try and) invalidate any claim if they were not in prior knowledge of *any* change to standard!
Or am I just being a bit paranoid?
"Who said that!?" :laugh:
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you would be surprised at what you can get away with regards to insurance claims and modifications. in my experience they really aren't that bothered about mods when making a claim.
my insurer said as long as performance/power wasn't increased by more than 10% and the mods were road legal then they weren't interested.
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until its a big claim when trust me they will be interested! I had the wheels knicked off my track car, £6k claim and they sent an engineer out to inspect my car - WTF said I, do you want to see it has no wheels, yup they said and they did and engineer gave it a good once over, seemed a bit silly as yes it had no wheels (which he verified) and yes i had a police report, the police even sent scenes of crime out to dust my garage etc. car heavily modded, engine, brakes, suspension, bodywork, interior etc and all mods declared, he didn't check for a remap though :grin:, even though it had one and it was declared.
slightly more relevant, a few years ago I had an A3 1.8T which I had mapped, one of the old chip replacement jobs, the car then conked out, dead ECU (am sure that the chip wasn't soldered in properly) audi came out and towed the car in, yes sir faulty ECU, all replaced under warranty, they said they sent the old ecu off to VAG - I held my breath, car was only two months old!!!, but I never heard anything from anyone or paid anything and had full audi recovery and courtesy car whilst in for repair.
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No chance,I'm to scared to do time in VW's prison they do unnatural things to you there. :grin:
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This is going well :grin:
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This is going well :grin:
(http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/Themes/2_SlickPro_Graphite/images/newlogo3.jpg)
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This is going well :grin:
(http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/Themes/2_SlickPro_Graphite/images/newlogo3.jpg)
Herr Doc MK6 Mod - HELP & SARCASM Since '05
It's why I'm here.
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This is going well :grin:
(http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/Themes/2_SlickPro_Graphite/images/newlogo3.jpg)
Herr Doc MK6 Mod - HELP & SARCASM Since '05
It's why I'm here.
:grin:
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No chance,I'm to scared to do time in VW's prison they do unnatural things to you there. :grin:
Like make you wear paper bags on your head..... :laugh:
(http://sgspsychology2.webs.com/After%20Guilty/stanford2.jpg)
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That's fair enough..... But if the mapping isn't 'stock'... as it came from the factory (or any kosher dealer 'upgrades') then any insurer is going to (try and) invalidate any claim if they were not in prior knowledge of *any* change to standard!
Or am I just being a bit paranoid?
Nope your not, insurance companies will find out in some way or another :smiley:
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That's fair enough..... But if the mapping isn't 'stock'... as it came from the factory (or any kosher dealer 'upgrades') then any insurer is going to (try and) invalidate any claim if they were not in prior knowledge of *any* change to standard!
Or am I just being a bit paranoid?
Nope your not, insurance companies will find out in some way or another :smiley:
That will be using the remap detecting sonic screwdriver mentioned earlier :wink:
I'd always advise a customer to inform their insurance of any upgrades made :wink:
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That's fair enough..... But if the mapping isn't 'stock'... as it came from the factory (or any kosher dealer 'upgrades') then any insurer is going to (try and) invalidate any claim if they were not in prior knowledge of *any* change to standard!
Or am I just being a bit paranoid?
Nope your not, insurance companies will find out in some way or another :smiley:
Could say the same about tyres. brake pads and all aftermarket parts fitted to a car?
The issues with software is its hard to tell if the car has been remapped, or the code edited. What they need to do is first read the map from the ecu of the insured car, then find a copy of the map which is an exact match to the sw number and update code, then they need to have a copy of industry standard editing software to overlay both maps and check for changes and to check the cheksumm. The the person doing the job need to be clued up with map codes so they can stand up in a professional capacity so they can confidently say the car has been tuned.
Main dealers dont have the skills or tools to compare maps. And as for as I know they are not going to use the bias opinon of a tuner.
They need to prove 100% that the ecu software has been modified before they can void a claim... But how?
Chip tuning if a different story, The just need to open the ecu and a performance chip will jump out at you..and in most cases will have Superchips sticker on ir and EVC protection PBC.
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Had a new turbo fitted to my Polo under warrenty with a remap on it and various other hardware mods. Not a question asked! :smiley:
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@ RTechUK
Interesting information there, shed's a bit of light on the subject... Also the difference between 'chipping' and 'Re-mapping'. I think many people use the term 'chipped' to apply to a car that's had it's ECU fiddled with in any way, whether its a physical ic replacement or a re-code!
@TheDoc
Only The Doctor has a Sonic Screwdriver....... Oh Yes...... You *ARE* The Doctor! :laugh:
The next statement copied from.....
http://www.jrtuning.co.uk/index.shtml index page
Remapping won't void your warranty!
ecu remapping
It is illegal for a vehicle manufacturer to void your warranty because work has been carried out by a third party under the EU block exemption laws. This also covers vehicle tuning and engine ecu remapping as long as the failure is not as a direct cause of the remap.
We can also say with confidence no JR tuning ecu remap has ever caused a failure and we are recognised as supplying some of the best tuning files in the world.
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Remap and Chip same thing the ecu .bin files get edited and loaded back to the ecu, The the method of how the software get to the ecu differs, a remap is like uploading picture from your iphone to your pc its all done via leads and software, chip tuning is more like having a film negitive developed, some one has to open the ecu unsolder the chip read the chip, and in most cases have to insert an new flash type chip or a PCB protection board... which leave physical evidence of the software being changed.
Remapping won't void your warranty!
ecu remapping
How do they sleep at night?.... :grin:
Its the usual sales Bull crap... as bad as the quote "our maps are TUV tested" :grin:
So what they are saying if a modern petrol turbo map which is set to run lambda 1 has the boost wound up from a remap and it melts a piston or valve the dealers have cannot void the warranty due to EU PC BS.. :grin:? All they have to do is fix the car then use diagnostics software to log the ecu, lambda and boost values to see its running lean, then void the warranty.
My mate Craig owns the local Fiat dealership. He had in a punto abarth which had 27 flash counter readings and a melted engine with less then 2000 miles, and after they fitted a new engine they logged the boost and fuel only to it was far too lean which back up the 27 flash counter reading, in the end the customer ended up paying £7,000 plus £600 for an new ecu as they said the could not get the map off.. :grin: The customer said he left the car at a secure car park at Gatwick for a week, and while he was away he said the valet parkers must have the car to a local tuner. I have mapped a few Punto Abarths now and all have been fine and still are valid for warranty at my local dealer.
But if your with JRtuning It seems they will fix the car upto the value of £2,000,000 if the dealer refuses to fix the car? IMO if this is true its a win win situation, for for the members who is worried about warranty should forget all the other tuners and head to JR... (Oh look I can do sarcasm..lol)
Truth is remapping is a gamble/risk, Even with the best tuned file in the world, the car could blow up straight away after a remap but whats to say I was not about to fail on the stock map?
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Truth is remapping is a gamble/risk, Even with the best tuned file in the worls the car could blow up straight away after a remap but whats to say I was not about to fail on the stock map?
^^^^ agreed 100%
Remap will highlight any inherent weaknesses within the standard components. I've had a coilpack go on a MK5 GTI go during the post-map test run. New ones were fitted the same day (revised ones as there's a massive recall on them) and all has been well so far.
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No chance,I'm to scared to do time in VW's prison they do unnatural things to you there. :grin:
Like make you wear paper bags on your head..... :laugh:
(http://sgspsychology2.webs.com/After%20Guilty/stanford2.jpg)
No its what they do to you while the bags on your head that worried me. :cry: look at the size of that truncheon :shocked: :grin:
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No its what they do to you while the bags on your head that worried me. :cry: look at the size of that truncheon :shocked: :grin:
Laughing out loud a lot - Nick thinks I've lost the plot :laugh:
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How do they sleep at night?.... :grin:
Thought that'd make you grin :grin:
@ Rhyso
After the debacle on the MK IV platform re faulty coil packs I'da thought it would have been sorted by the Mk V ?! :shocked:
As an aside.... My son's 96' 1.8T 150bhp A3 started a regular misfire and we were expecting a quick cheap coil pack fix..... Turned out to be a chipped (that word get's everywhere eh!) exhaust valve in No1 which badly scored the bore.... £700 later for a new (yes, new!) bottom end from Audi and a re-built head. Fekking annoying thing at the time was the same lump from SEAT would have been £200ish cheaper, but they wouldn't supply a warranty as it wasn't 'fit for purpose', even tho the damn thing probably came off the same conveyer belt!! :angry:
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@ Rhyso
After the debacle on the MK IV platform re faulty coil packs I'da thought it would have been sorted by the Mk V ?! :shocked:
Nope, fraid not!!! There is a massive recall across the VAG group for nearly all 1.8T engines going back as far as the MK4!
I advise anyone with a 4 or 5 to get their coilpacks replaced before remapping; especially as a quick phone call could mean they are done for free :afro:
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@ Rhyso
After the debacle on the MK IV platform re faulty coil packs I'da thought it would have been sorted by the Mk V ?! :shocked:
Nope, fraid not!!! There is a massive recall across the VAG group for nearly all 1.8T engines going back as far as the MK4!
I advise anyone with a 4 or 5 to get their coilpacks replaced before remapping; especially as a quick phone call could mean they are done for free :afro:
.. and still an issue on the mk6 also :cool:
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Also, how can they tell if you've had a remap? Does their software flash red and sirens go off?!
MK6s cannot be remapped through the traditional means of ODBII port. They have to remove physically remove your ECU which means they have to slot the security screws (that clamp the wiring harnass) and remove them and then open up your ECU. Where alot of people get caught (atleast in the states) is the tune dealer will not replace them with OEM ones so that it would visually look un-tampered. The company that i went with allows me to change programs I.E. octane levels as well as stock. So i can literally go back to stock file and turn out the ECU security lockout so that nothing can be accessed without a password (making the tune entirely stealth.)
However up until recently i was told that volkswagen of america will not warranty any work since the vehicle is overseas. But found out that they will in fact do it for military i just have to send them the invoice. I however have zero fears about getting denied warranty as i can make my tune seem none existent.
-sean
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the european model golf gti can be remapped as the ecu isn't locked like the US version.
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the european model golf gti can be remapped as the ecu isn't locked like the US version.
man i knew you guys had all the good stuff
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:grin:
Yep there must be alot of bullsh!t laws and legislation over the pond - though we have plenty over here too!
I know some bikes over in the US have retarded ignition to reduce power where EU models and Japanese don't.
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Well i accidentally bought the ex superchips demo car from a franchised VW dealer.
During the period of "negotiation" to get my money back, VW said they would warranty the car as it didn't have any fault codes or show any signs of wear that a remap would cause. This was despite it being ragged around many an airfield by every man and his dog and countless Journos. I did advise them they were setting a rather confusing precedent with that decision but they were going to stand by it.
VW were no help at all tbh in getting the car rejected but the dealer did own up and pay me back everything reasonably quickly.
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Wouldn't the dealer have to look pretty hard to find any evidence of a remap though? Surely its somethin they wouldnt usually check for?
and as long as any fault or claim wasn't caused by the remap there shouldn't be an issue with keepin your warranty IMO.
If the VWR remap is just a rebranded revo or super hips map then I can see what their problem is honouring your warranty.