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General => The garage => Topic started by: blade4real2004 on 23 October 2011, 11:27

Title: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: blade4real2004 on 23 October 2011, 11:27
since fitting THS front mount cooler my boost spike had gone from 20-22 psi to 15-16 psi been over the car for boost leaks with a boost leak tester was one on the vac line right on the fpr and one on the breather pipe under inlet (was a pin hole) i fixed these but car still not hitting near 20psi also the car feel flat its lost that punchy torque it had before fitting the front mount

anyone got any ideas what i can look at to try to get it back to how it was?

my mapping i got on there is stage 2 rtech (generic) the car feels like as if someone has taken the mapping off it is best way to discribe how it feels to drive
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: RTechUK on 23 October 2011, 11:54
since fitting THS front mount cooler my boost spike had gone from 20-22 psi to 15-16 psi been over the car for boost leaks with a boost leak tester was one on the vac line right on the fpr and one on the breather pipe under inlet (was a pin hole) i fixed these but car still not hitting near 20psi also the car feel flat its lost that punchy torque it had before fitting the front mount

anyone got any ideas what i can look at to try to get it back to how it was?

my mapping i got on there is stage 2 rtech (generic) the car feels like as if someone has taken the mapping off it is best way to discribe how it feels to drive

It could be a number of things, mapping as the drawing of more air to fill the FMIC can make up the load so the ecu thinks its filling the cylinders with enough air, could also be a leak, a valve, faulty maf, vac lines ect..  What you need to do is log the requested load vs actual load against the n75% reading to see whats going on.
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 23 October 2011, 12:15
cheers how you do that? i got vagcom so can do loging but not done anything like that yet. i also checked it with vagcom and no fault codes on there. do you think with your generic stage2 software (was put on in aug '99) would cause the issue as the generic is set for standard intercooler etc, the issue started instantly after fitting the new cooler if that any help

im thinking of changing the injectors etc like chris has and having the mapping tweaked but i need to find out what is going on first as its like a 3hr trip from barry (wales) to get up to you.

how much is the fuel pump you supplied to chris and the throttle body mod and what will the cost be to tweak the mapping?

forgot to saying engine is an AGU
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: RTechUK on 23 October 2011, 13:02
Its all down to your car actual setup and how the map responds.

You need to log blocks 25 to see whats going on.#
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 23 October 2011, 13:27
ok ill log 25 is there a way to make it i.e a way the car needs to be driven?
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: Chris. on 23 October 2011, 13:40
full throttle run in 3rd gear is usually best. low RPM - redline!
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 23 October 2011, 13:44
ok cheers chris i got to go up my mums today so ill try and log it on my way up there
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 23 October 2011, 16:33
Going to be going out now in a bit shall I log measuring block 002 as well or just 25
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: Wazzzer on 23 October 2011, 17:21
Might be worth logging the MAF too

I had a similar problem and it turned out to be a combination of the MAF and actuator
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 23 October 2011, 18:51
Couldn't do a log on the way out as was a bit to much traffic so will do it on my way home now just to double check I'm going into measuring blocks not single block then change one group to 025 and the other to 002 then click the log tab at bottom right then start when I'm read to start the logging?
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 24 October 2011, 00:05
ok i have done a log i can open it with excel what do i do next hehehe :laugh:
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 24 October 2011, 02:30
heres what excel is showing me

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/blade4real2004/datalog.jpg)

from what i can work out my max bhp was 207bhp is that right?
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: RTechUK on 24 October 2011, 09:38
Looks like the ecu is seeing the load like its should inn the midrange, lots of head room for more power and power just by looking at the 75 duty.  But if ther car feels slower you could have an over reading maf, or the void filling for the FMIC has just got rid of the inital spool and kick of power as the ecu see the actual load meet the requested load much sooner in the rpm range which will make the ecu cut the N75% too earyl.  The idea is to keep the N75% at 99% until the peak boost point at around 3000rpm but your seeing full load at 2320rpm @ 88% duty?

How old is you MAF and is in from TPS or main dealer?   If the MAF is a good one then the way around this its to have a custom map setup to take into all your added mods since the generic mapping.

Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 24 October 2011, 12:11
Ok I think I under stand what your saying so looks like the mapping needs ajusting for the extra mods? The maf is a genuine one I think it's been on there since new. Is it worth trying to clean it or trying my mates maf on mine? U mapped Paul's black golf not long ago and he made good power do I guess his maf is good
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: RTechUK on 24 October 2011, 12:15
Ok I think I under stand what your saying so looks like the mapping needs ajusting for the extra mods? The maf is a genuine one I think it's been on there since new. Is it worth trying to clean it or trying my mates maf on mine? U mapped Paul's black golf not long ago and he made good power do I guess his maf is good
For elimination I would just get a new unit from TPS and then you know its right, 
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 24 October 2011, 12:28
Alright cheers nick does the n75 look like it working ok from the data log?
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 24 October 2011, 16:05
tried pauls maf and n75 on my car and tried my maf and n75 on his car and my car drove the same and his car drove the same if that help at all? do think it could be down to the mapped then?
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 24 October 2011, 16:12
is there anything else that could be at fault? i was thinking about trying my old cooler back on it to see if i hit 20psi again just the hassle of taking it off and trying it to put it back on again, because it was night an day when i changed over to the THS cooler the power dropped and so did the psi, up to then was boosting as it should of.
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: Chris. on 24 October 2011, 20:30
Dont take your boost gauge as a gospel reading of what your engine is doing.  Far far too many dont give a accurate reading.

Id check your joins on the THS cooler, especailly around the MAP sensor plug/blank.  Get some fairy liquid, make a soapy water mix in a spray bottle and spray onto the joins wile a mate holds the engine revs at around 2500rpm.
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: RTechUK on 24 October 2011, 20:57
The logs say it all.   There is no major boost leak.

What fuel are you using? Its good to have some correction factor on V-power as it means your getting enough timing,  cheap 97 fuel can cause too much correction and a loss power and the car wont feel as nippy as the boost will be doing all the work on its work.

The ecu is seeing what is wants to see from the MAF, which with some fancy maths works out to be the actual load reading in blocks 25.

The ecu is seeing the resquested load value from the MAF gs reading, when it sees the hysteresis load values the n75%dc will reduce to keep the power linear.  If there was a boost leak the N75 would be much higher as it would be trying to get the actual load to match the requested.

Just needs a custom stage2 remap like we said from day one... :wink:  We dont offer generic stage2 maps anymore, but you twisted my arm..lol :grin:
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 24 October 2011, 22:13
I'm running tesco 99ron as there no v power close to me. I'll sort out some money for the custom map and get the stuff togeather i.e vr6 maf yellow injectors with the fuel pump nick shall I get one or would you want to use one of yours? Can you pm me a price on the map and pump.

Paul is going to be dropping his car up for his k04 remap I'll prob be coming up with him to bring him up back would that be a perfect time to do mine while we up?
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: Chris. on 24 October 2011, 22:15
Shouldnt have any issue on tesco 99.  Decent fuel! 

Be looking at a good few hours getting your map nice and spot on!  Well worth the wait!
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 24 October 2011, 22:31
yer is good fuel i rate it well me and my mate use is and my mates golf nick mapped and he made good power and was on tesco 99

i dont mind waiting all day as you said well worth the wait for the WOW factor!  :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 26 October 2011, 13:43
Is a forge actuator a must to pull Chris's power? My turbo is about a year old now but if it needs one to make sure it holds the power I'll get one.
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: Yohan on 26 October 2011, 15:06
Is a forge actuator a must to pull Chris's power? My turbo is about a year old now but if it needs one to make sure it holds the power I'll get one.

I believe so mate, I just don't think the spring is strong enough in the standard actuator so it starts to crack open at the top end.

Sure Nick/Chris will verify that soon :)
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: RTechUK on 26 October 2011, 15:36
Is a forge actuator a must to pull Chris's power? My turbo is about a year old now but if it needs one to make sure it holds the power I'll get one.

Stock actuators wont make good power, some find it hard to make 220bhp. When I first brought my AUM I maxed the map out and only could get 190bhp due to 150k miles on actuator spring.  New forge one fitted and the same map 220bhp out the tin on a stock engine, then 240bhp+ will all my stage 2 mods.

The only k03s  I have had 240bhp on the stock actuator was a 2007 1.8T Polo GTI with around 15k on the clock, full stage 2 spec.
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: dom on 26 October 2011, 15:40
Is a forge actuator a must to pull Chris's power? My turbo is about a year old now but if it needs one to make sure it holds the power I'll get one.

Stock actuators wont make good power, some find it hard to make 220bhp. When I first brought my AUM I maxed the map out and only could get 190bhp due to 150k miles on actuator spring.  New forge one fitted and the same map 220bhp out the tin on a stock engine, then 240bhp+ will all my stage 2 mods.

The only k03s  I have had 240bhp on the stock actuator was a 2007 1.8T Polo GTI with around 15k on the clock, full stage 2 spec.

Is changing the actuator a turbo-out job?
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: RTechUK on 26 October 2011, 15:52
Is a forge actuator a must to pull Chris's power? My turbo is about a year old now but if it needs one to make sure it holds the power I'll get one.

Stock actuators wont make good power, some find it hard to make 220bhp. When I first brought my AUM I maxed the map out and only could get 190bhp due to 150k miles on actuator spring.  New forge one fitted and the same map 220bhp out the tin on a stock engine, then 240bhp+ will all my stage 2 mods.

The only k03s  I have had 240bhp on the stock actuator was a 2007 1.8T Polo GTI with around 15k on the clock, full stage 2 spec.

Is changing the actuator a turbo-out job?

It can be done by dropping the turbo down by 50mm and taking the manifold off.   To drop the turbo you need to remove the down pipe and the bolt which mounts the turbo to the block, this will drop the turbo enough to get to the lower nuts on the manifold.    Once manifold is off you can "just" get the top 10mm actuator bolt out, which is very close to one of the feed banjos, it looks impossible to do but with a little effort it will come out.  If you find it too hard getting the 10mm bolt from next to the banjo you will need to remove the banjo and replace the washers.  Re fit the manifold with a new gasket and 13 new nuts and washers.

I am sure the combo of your carbon map with a the forge actuator/ yellow spring will be awesome, Nick might have to clip the N75 I control in the midrange to stop it over boosting..

Nick

Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: dom on 26 October 2011, 16:14
Is a forge actuator a must to pull Chris's power? My turbo is about a year old now but if it needs one to make sure it holds the power I'll get one.

Stock actuators wont make good power, some find it hard to make 220bhp. When I first brought my AUM I maxed the map out and only could get 190bhp due to 150k miles on actuator spring.  New forge one fitted and the same map 220bhp out the tin on a stock engine, then 240bhp+ will all my stage 2 mods.

The only k03s  I have had 240bhp on the stock actuator was a 2007 1.8T Polo GTI with around 15k on the clock, full stage 2 spec.

Is changing the actuator a turbo-out job?

It can be done by dropping the turbo down by 50mm and taking the manifold off.   To drop the turbo you need to remove the down pipe and the bolt which mounts the turbo to the block, this will drop the turbo enough to get to the lower nuts on the manifold.    Once manifold is off you can "just" get the top 10mm actuator bolt out, which is very close to one of the feed banjos, it looks impossible to do but with a little effort it will come out.  If you find it too hard getting the 10mm bolt from next to the banjo you will need to remove the banjo and replace the washers.  Re fit the manifold with a new gasket and 13 new nuts and washers.

I am sure the combo of your carbon map with a the forge actuator/ yellow spring will be awesome, Nick might have to clip the N75 I control in the midrange to stop it over boosting..

Nick



Cheers Nick :afro:
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 26 October 2011, 18:33
wicked ill add one to the recipe for POWER! i managed to pick up a 3" maf for £16 delivered just injectors pump and actuator.

nick with the injectors is it posible to use 350cc or will they be to big and i should stick with the 315cc ones?
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: RTechUK on 26 October 2011, 22:23
wicked ill add one to the recipe for POWER! i managed to pick up a 3" maf for £16 delivered just injectors pump and actuator.

nick with the injectors is it posible to use 350cc or will they be to big and i should stick with the 315cc ones?

The need to be the same ratio as your maf size, around 310cc for the VR6 maf.

 I have managed to get the 310cc Calibra yellows to fuel 100% with the stock maf, but running the stock maf limits the peak air flow reading,  it could be fudged to read higher than 187gs but would screw all the load axis up in the mapping.  So IMO the best was is 310cc with 2.75" ID maf (VR6)
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: Chris. on 26 October 2011, 22:25
I had to remove the banjo.  No way was the nut coming out even with the turbo out the car.  Dont think downpipe needs to come off though, you can just get into the lower nuts with it on.  Well ive done it a few times.  Leave the 3rd one behind the banjo out.....far easier IMHO and no future messing on.

Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: RTechUK on 26 October 2011, 22:31
I had to remove the banjo.  No way was the nut coming out even with the turbo out the car.  Dont think downpipe needs to come off though, you can just get into the lower nuts with it on.  Well ive done it a few times.  Leave the 3rd one behind the banjo out.....far easier IMHO and no future messing on.



Trust me it can be done.. :wink: Jim has to take the banjo off aswell, he aint got the skill like me.. :grin:
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: Chris. on 26 October 2011, 22:35
By any chance do you cut it off? lol

Would like to see how you do it ;)
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 26 October 2011, 22:39
Alright I'll get some yellow bad boys. Can't wait to get it remapped again now missing that pull it had before. Hehe how do you get the 3" maf in the tip? Loads of k y jelly and plenty off pushing and swearing lmao
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: Chris. on 26 October 2011, 22:40
Attacked it with a grinder LOL

Grind edge down to reduce thickness.  Then swear lots as you try to stretch the TIP over it.  Just about possible!
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 26 October 2011, 22:45
Looks like this weeks job when the maf comes . I got dremel here so with give it the slim fast diet and " slip it in"
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: Chris. on 26 October 2011, 22:46
Nice tight fit mind :P
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 26 October 2011, 23:57
it be snug when im finished it with it lol or bust hahahhaha actuator going to be funy   :huh: great fun playing with the turbo and manifold number of times i had that manifold off lol
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 27 October 2011, 12:28
Once the actuator is fitted how do u setup the ajustments?
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: Chris. on 27 October 2011, 21:50
Set it up closed then wind the nut on 3 turns.  Usually puts you at a good preload!
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 28 October 2011, 09:43
Set it up closed by that you mean hold the penny valve closed wind the nut up to it then add three turns of preload?
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: Chris. on 28 October 2011, 22:59
Thats the way!
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 29 October 2011, 00:54
nice one chris.
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 29 October 2011, 02:33
nick are these are good? cant find yellow tops for the love of money these flow 315cc same as the yellow tops just not sure if the ohms are the same as the yellow tops

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-G60-VR6-C20XE-C20LET-UPGRADE-RECON-INJECTORS-RALLY-/170716597030?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item27bf808b26
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: tshirt2k on 29 October 2011, 08:27
They are high impedance so should be ok.
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: Wazzzer on 29 October 2011, 11:59
They're not as high impedance as the C20LET yellows and the info I've found suggests they are from a Volvo turbo of some description. I'll check the info I've got on my other PC once I get on there so don't rush into anything  :wink:
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 29 October 2011, 13:53
alright cheers wazzzer
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: RTechUK on 29 October 2011, 19:01
http://www.injectorcleaning.co.uk/flow.htm


They are rated the same on paper.

Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: Wazzzer on 29 October 2011, 19:14
exactly the same then :afro:
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 29 October 2011, 21:29
awesome cheers nick and waz ill sort out getting a set of them then
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 30 October 2011, 19:07
sorted injectors today so now i got the pump and actuator left to sort out should recieve the injectors mid week ill sort out the actuator end of the week once i got that ill fit that on straight away,
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 02 November 2011, 09:16
Actuator ordered looks like I got a job for the weekend  :grin:
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 05 November 2011, 11:21
Looks like my plan might be changing my mates thinking about getting a camper now if he does I'm going to be having his k04 setup off of him

Nick I have i have bought a forge actuator now so is it worth putting it on that? Got a yellow spring in it? I should be having his turbo and the green injectors from him so if I use my vr maf and a 255l pump am I ready to rock?
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 09 November 2011, 15:48
its deffo on now for me having my mates k04 so will be pulling it off soon as we got a touch of dry weather and get it fitted onto mine

so my k03s will be up for sale and so will the 315cc injectors and there not going to be needed now

nick if you can give me any info on my last post that be awesome mate
Title: Re: under boost issues
Post by: blade4real2004 on 27 November 2011, 17:36
Boost issue resolved turned out to be a faulty lambda which wasn't showing a fault code till I went through a deep flood puddle and coursed the lambda to flag a code when it coughed and cut out twice took out the lambda to find it been wearing on the heat shield and worn through the outta casing of the wire

Replaced the lambda and now fault free 22psi of boost and now with the the k04 fitted its even more torquey can't wait for the remap now
Title: Re: under boost issues...issue resolved!
Post by: Wazzzer on 01 December 2011, 21:08
excellent stuff mate  :cool:
Title: Re: under boost issues...issue resolved!
Post by: blade4real2004 on 02 December 2011, 13:09
k here we go again

fitted the k04 now got these fault codes anyone got any ideas?

16514 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: Malfunction in Circuit
        P0130 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
00561 - Mixture Adaptation
        14-00 - Adaptation Limit (Add) Exceeded
00561 - Mixture Adaptation
        12-00 - Adaptation Limit (Mul) Exceeded


have looked on there web sites on the means of the codes but does not give much help with these codes
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: Wazzzer on 02 December 2011, 13:53
they look like they are linked to you replacing the lambda? You tried clearing them and seeing if they come back?
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: tshirt2k on 02 December 2011, 14:00
Has it been mapped to suit? If not do that first. 
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: blade4real2004 on 02 December 2011, 18:02
they look like they are linked to you replacing the lambda? You tried clearing them and seeing if they come back?

yer i cleared them when i changed the turbo over but it come back again i think it went into limp mode  earlier to as it wouldnt boost past 10psi but now i cleared it its boosting to 20psi again
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: blade4real2004 on 02 December 2011, 18:03
Has it been mapped to suit? If not do that first. 

i was thinking that earlier on but so i tried getting hold of nick but no luck yet  :cry:
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: Chris. on 03 December 2011, 12:22
What turbo did you have on before?
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: blade4real2004 on 04 December 2011, 18:17
k03-052 (k03s) stage 2 rtech but it not custom nick come down and loaded it on which he dont do no more..

i boost leak tested it to had a slight leak on the one pipe on the n75 and on the tip on the turbo so sorted them will see if that has sorted it

i also cleaned off a load of sensors lambda sensor intake sensor throttle body

im wondering if with the k04 now on there and the injectors on there limit on a stage 2 k03s setup now with the k04 it cant cope

i would guess nick would know if that could be my problem
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: blade4real2004 on 11 December 2011, 15:04
lambda changed again cleared code just need to run it again now see it it comes back fingers crossed it was just a dodgey lambda
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: coolio on 11 December 2011, 17:14
k03-052 (k03s) stage 2 rtech but it not custom nick come down and loaded it on which he dont do no more..

i boost leak tested it to had a slight leak on the one pipe on the n75 and on the tip on the turbo so sorted them will see if that has sorted it

i also cleaned off a load of sensors lambda sensor intake sensor throttle body

im wondering if with the k04 now on there and the injectors on there limit on a stage 2 k03s setup now with the k04 it cant cope

i would guess nick would know if that could be my problem

my car have developed an under boost issue and when i plant my foot down it goes into limp mode , just wondering what equipment did u use to do the leak test ??
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: blade4real2004 on 11 December 2011, 18:05
i bought a boost leak tester from the US mate is a good bit of kit awesome way to find leaks never would of found the two i had without it
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: coolio on 11 December 2011, 18:28
i bought a boost leak tester from the US mate is a good bit of kit awesome way to find leaks never would of found the two i had without it

u got  link for it mate ?
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: tshirt2k on 11 December 2011, 19:11
You dont need to buy a kit. a few plumbing bits and a shrader valve does the trick (And a compressor with tyre inflater). You just need a end cap that fits in where your maf connects to the TIP.
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: blade4real2004 on 11 December 2011, 19:47
You dont need to buy a kit. a few plumbing bits and a shrader valve does the trick (And a compressor with tyre inflater). You just need a end cap that fits in where your maf connects to the TIP.

i thought of doing that but i just thought for the price of the kit it saved me the hassle
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: blade4real2004 on 11 December 2011, 19:51
i bought a boost leak tester from the US mate is a good bit of kit awesome way to find leaks never would of found the two i had without it

u got  link for it mate ?

http://www.turboboostleaktesters.com/servlet/the-120/INTAKE-PIPE-KIT--dsh-/Detail

thats the kit i got i went with the t bolt clamp to as there harder wearing and less chance of letting go at 25psi!
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: tshirt2k on 18 December 2011, 15:18
You dont need to buy a kit. a few plumbing bits and a shrader valve does the trick (And a compressor with tyre inflater). You just need a end cap that fits in where your maf connects to the TIP.

i thought of doing that but i just thought for the price of the kit it saved me the hassle

It's all in the advertising. Same thing but for less than a fiver.
Title: Re: under boost issues...here we go again!
Post by: Wazzzer on 18 December 2011, 21:25
I really must do a check on mine at work