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General => General discussion => Topic started by: shaft69 on 11 October 2011, 18:59
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Was on MOT course new rules from jan if you have HID lights must have headlight wash or will fail MOT bit harse in my opinion.
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Yeah Glad i've got them :grin:
Anything said about auto leveling?
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No big issue, just fire old halogens in for MOT!!
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I think they should also fail the MOT unless they're in projectors. Too many chavs with them in normal clusters bliding us. Bad enough with the big bosses blinding us by having them in the cars that they were meant for.
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I think they should also fail the MOT unless they're in projectors. Too many chavs with them in normal clusters bliding us. Bad enough with the big bosses blinding us by having them in the cars that they were meant for.
This.
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No big issue, just fire old halogens in for MOT!!
What about if you get stopped for a roadside check. :rolleyes:
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DANGEROUS THREAD :evil:
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DANGEROUS THREAD :evil:
Yep, noses get out of joint often on this topic... Not been long since the last big debate on the matter.
All I'll say is this, if its not legal then don't do it, when it comes to cars a broken law usually affects others or puts them at risk.
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What about if you get stopped for a roadside check. :rolleyes:
Then so be it lol. Its been a long long time since the rozzers have pulled me. (Touch wood). Passed them loads of time too without any hassle. I do have the H7R's though but not sure if there any better to an on coming motorists point of view.
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Was on MOT course new rules from jan if you have HID lights must have headlight wash or will fail MOT bit harse in my opinion.
I don't think it's harsh.
Infact I think anyone caught with HIDs should have their car crushed.
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Was on MOT course new rules from jan if you have HID lights must have headlight wash or will fail MOT bit harse in my opinion.
I don't think it's harsh.
Infact I think anyone caught with HIDs should have their car crushed.
+1
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Was on MOT course new rules from jan if you have HID lights must have headlight wash or will fail MOT bit harse in my opinion.
I don't think it's harsh.
Infact I think anyone caught with HIDs should have their car crushed.
+1
Agreed.
There's quite an interesting article on them in this months Retro Cars (4 pages), fitting guide etc. I couldn't help but think it was a tad pointless though - they state they are a grey area and the new laws could come into force. More hassle than it's worth!
I don't understand what's wrong with uprated normal bulbs and a loom that can take the extra current. HID's look pap anyway and if you are stupid enough to think blinding other drivers is ok then you really shouldn't be on the road. Ban aftermarket kits I say.
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Are you saying then that in a normal light unit they have to have headlight washers? Or is this in any unit - I.E. including proper projector units? As I know a lot of cars circa 5 years old have projector units but have got shoite light dispersion on to the road.
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Are you saying then that in a normal light unit they have to have headlight washers? Or is this in any unit - I.E. including proper projector units? As I know a lot of cars circa 5 years old have projector units but have got shoite light dispersion on to the road.
^^^
I'd also like clarification if that i were to retro-fit OEM xenons to my car would I need the washers and auto-levelling system that goes with it :undecided:
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Are you saying then that in a normal light unit they have to have headlight washers? Or is this in any unit - I.E. including proper projector units? As I know a lot of cars circa 5 years old have projector units but have got shoite light dispersion on to the road.
^^^
I'd also like clarification if that i were to retro-fit OEM xenons to my car would I need the washers and auto-levelling system that goes with it :undecided:
My 2009 Mazda 6 has projectors with normal bulbs, the light output is not amazing and in another recent thread on this matter I stated that my MK1s lights with uprated looms to standard bulbs and lenses are much better.
If I wanted to fit Mazda's OEM HIDs from a higher end model I would have to fit the levellers and washers that goes with it if I were to keep it legal.
Read This From GOV Department For Transport:
Aftermarket HID (Xenon) headlamps
Fact sheet: Aftermarket HID headlamps
In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London
SW1P 4DR
Taken from http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps.html
Also note that this has been the case from 2006 and is due to change again including the new, more strict rules for MOT.
Hopefully the last time I post anything on the matter, maybe we need a legal section full of stickies! :grin:
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Humm... looks like that's just sh!t on my early xmas pressie to the motor next month then.
You would have thought that with projectors they would make an exception. :sad:
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2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
Over-ridden by EU legislation IIRC. You only need E-marked units for the HID kit.
But unless these are available for your car then you can't fit them.
Infact I think anyone caught with HIDs that don't conform to the law should have their car crushed.
Totally.
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Humm... looks like that's just sh!t on my early xmas pressie to the motor next month then.
You would have thought that with projectors they would make an exception. :sad:
Sorry. :sad: Projectors are only a third of the requirement.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
Over-ridden by EU legislation IIRC. You only need E-marked units for the HID kit.
But unless these are available for your car then you can't fit them.
Yeah I'm sure that doesn't cover everything, especially anything recent but I get tired of hearing stuff about new laws. As far as I'm aware it has NEVER been legal to fit HIDs to a vehicle that was never designed to have them and this document proves that the major facts about the matter have been quite clear for some time.
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Hold on then, so if there was an option to have them in the model range, and provided I get the right units then I can fit them? I'm now confused.
IIRC - the passat W8 B5.5's had Xenons(HID's).... :undecided:
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Hold on then, so if there was an option to have them in the model range, and provided I get the right units then I can fit them? I'm now confused.
IIRC - the passat W8 B5.5's had Xenons(HID's).... :undecided:
AFAIK you would still require the washers and leveling system to go with the OEM xenons :sad:
That = £££££££££££££££££££££'s :sad:
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Aye, unless I can find some dirt cheap from a breakers. Complete new front bumper, wiring loom and the rest.
It's christmas soon right... :laugh:
Oh and some good reading that I found concerning the differences between projector units.
http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?16902-HID-Projector-vs.-Halogen-Projector-differences
:cool:
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Aye, unless I can find some dirt cheap from a breakers. Complete new front bumper, wiring loom and the rest.
It's christmas soon right... :laugh:
Oh and some good reading that I found concerning the differences between projector units.
http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?16902-HID-Projector-vs.-Halogen-Projector-differences
:cool:
Without wanting to come across as a total nerd, that's an interesting link.. :wink:
After only having a quick scan it appears to prove that a projector lens is not simply just a projector, there are subtle yet important differences between one designed for normal bulbs and those that are designed for HIDs.
Oh and Slick, I still think there are a few Grey area's on aftermarket fitment due to the DFT stating However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. I think someone would get away with fitting HID's to a car that was never built with them provided the correct projector was fitted for purpose with washers and levellers present.
I wonder how much difference there is between fitments of newer OEM HID projectors and older ones that are for halogen. Swapping of internal parts possible?
I think that parts of this thread should be stickied somewhere for future reference as this really does answer quite a few questions that constantly come up regarding the proper use of HIDs which often leads to arguments.
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Aye, there are some interesting topics on there actually. I might start seeing if I can get hold of a set of OEM Xenon projector units and see what the deal is with swapping internals over.
Mind you, it also depends on costs, on mine it won't be cheap by any means as the washer unit is covered by a hinged door IIRC so I can't just go cutting holes in the bumper to make it fit. Ballache.
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the washer unit is covered by a hinged door IIRC so I can't just go cutting holes in the bumper to make it fit. Ballache.
It's OK - I have a solution for you - ziptie a pair of these to your front bumper:
(http://toolspot-static.co.uk/i/3886f.jpg)
with little motors at right angles to the handle, with a disc on the end of the motor shaft, with a pin on the outside of the disc and just take the power feed off the washer pump (you can probably tell I've thought this through carefully for you) - you'll look like a winner and you should only need to drill two holes on either side of your bumper.
Even with this set up you'd look less of a c*nt than someone with HIDs in units designed for filament bulbs. :grin:
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Far too much effort all that.
Throw in a free Albanian I can stick in the boot and you've got a deal. :cool:
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Even with this set up you'd look less of a c*nt than someone with HIDs in units designed for filament bulbs. :grin:
:grin:
Far too much effort all that.
Throw in a free Albanian I can stick in the boot and you've got a deal. :cool:
Fook it... Too much hassle for very little gain.. If you've got standard projectors, treat yourself to some uprated bulbs and move on. :grin:
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I have my MOT in November so will have another year with them in, then they will just be removed & replaced with the original crappy can't see anything headlights :grin:
I have projectors with HIDs but no headlight washers or self levellers :cry:
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I have my MOT in November so will have another year with them in, then they will just be removed & replaced with the original crappy can't see anything headlights :grin:
I have projectors with HIDs but no headlight washers or self levellers :cry:
I have normal headlights on a nearly 30 year old car. I can see better with them than my 2 year old daily with projectors....
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Obviously the rules over in the US are different, but it gives you a good idea of what is possible in terms of modding the lights properly, and alternatives in terms of Optics and reflection bowls in projectors.
I feel a challenge coming on. :lipsrsealed:
http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?19699-The-VDUB-Retrofit-database-thread
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Obviously the rules over in the US are different, but it gives you a good idea of what is possible in terms of modding the lights properly, and alternatives in terms of Optics and reflection bowls in projectors.
I feel a challenge coming on. :lipsrsealed:
http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?19699-The-VDUB-Retrofit-database-thread
Seen similar somewhere before, there was an american company making projector lenses with converted MK1 Golf Lights.
I hope you take it on, be very interesting.
If successful, all you need to do then is follow DH's little guide on his unique washer system and you'll be on to a winner.