GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: andykram on 05 October 2011, 20:11
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Well said sir - nice to have another petrol head with us as we seem to be a an ever rarer beast on here.
I'd dearly love an R, particularly in Rising Blue. Seriously smart piece of kit. My only problem with it (as has been said many times before) is price. I just specced one up on the configurator with just paint and cruise control (on the grounds that I have sat nav, bluetooth etc that I could swap from the GTi) and it was £32000. The only one on VWs Used car locator was £36000, albeit with lots of options. A quick trawl of the tinterweb puts me in numerous M3s for that amount of money. Or what about a 1972 V12 E Type Jag for £32k as an off the wall choice?
It's just a phenomenal amount of money for a Golf, it really is.
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Well said sir - nice to have another petrol head with us as we seem to be a an ever rarer beast on here.
I'd dearly love an R, particularly in Rising Blue. Seriously smart piece of kit. My only problem with it (as has been said many times before) is price. I just specced one up on the configurator with just paint and cruise control (on the grounds that I have sat nav, bluetooth etc that I could swap from the GTi) and it was £32000. The only one on VWs Used car locator was £36000, albeit with lots of options. A quick trawl of the tinterweb puts me in numerous M3s for that amount of money. Or what about a 1972 V12 E Type Jag for £32k as an off the wall choice?
It's just a phenomenal amount of money for a Golf, it really is.
There are several reasons why I did not buy an R, price not being one of them.
The most important one being that I simply could not get the perambulator and other bits and pieces of the three grand kids to fit in the boot. Oh, I could not fit all three rascals in the boot either.
And I love Jacara Cloth and fog lights to bits!
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the R is a far better car than the gti.... anyone that thinks other wise is crazy!
R everytime :cool:
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the R is a far better car than the gti.... anyone that thinks other wise is crazy!
R everytime :cool:
I have to agree but its the price tag , but you pays your money and you get the best :cool:
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the R is a far better car than the gti.... anyone that thinks other wise is crazy!
R everytime :cool:
Not got the soundtrack on this model tho Gilly, :cry:
3.2 with non res Milltek :cool: :cool:
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the R is a far better car than the gti.... anyone that thinks other wise is crazy!
R everytime :cool:
Not got the soundtrack on this model tho Gilly, :cry:
3.2 with non res Milltek :cool: :cool:
Very true... doesnt sound anywhere near as good :undecided:
Although I did catch the note of one recently and it sounded better than a std gti.. just didnt have the burble :evil:
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all about the burble..... :cool:
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the R is a far better car than the gti.... anyone that thinks other wise is crazy!
R everytime :cool:
Not got the soundtrack on this model tho Gilly, :cry:
3.2 with non res Milltek :cool: :cool:
Very true... doesnt sound anywhere near as good :undecided:
Although I did catch the note of one recently and it sounded better than a std gti.. just didnt have the burble :evil:
Surely it only sounds better because of the exhaust setup. Putting a decent exhaust on a GTI will make them sound the same . . . .
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the R is a far better car than the gti.... anyone that thinks other wise is crazy!
R everytime :cool:
Not got the soundtrack on this model tho Gilly, :cry:
3.2 with non res Milltek :cool: :cool:
Very true... doesnt sound anywhere near as good :undecided:
Although I did catch the note of one recently and it sounded better than a std gti.. just didnt have the burble :evil:
Surely it only sounds better because of the exhaust setup. Putting a decent exhaust on a GTI will make them sound the same . . . .
correctamundo!!
... but still :evil:
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I'm still adjusting to the engine. GTI to R almost feels like coming from a punchy diesel to a 1.0 3-cylinder - in high gears at low speed that is. DSG doesn't help by going into D6 as soon as possible. So I leave it in S :smiley:
Thats one of the reasons i did not buy a pirelli mk5 and waited for the mk6 GTI. Its also why when i nearly cancelled my mk6 GTI order and was offered an R a local dealer had in i decided against it. The way i use the car daily this would simply get on my wick.
the R is a far better car than the gti.... anyone that thinks other wise is crazy!
R everytime :cool:
Well im crazy then, but unlike you i don't drive at 10/10 th all the time.
It was not a money thing in my case as i did consider it, but It may have 4wd so better in the winter but for the money i saved on not getting the R i have a dedicated winter car, a mk2 GTI, and am also looking for a mk2 GTI 16V and would still have ~£5K change after that lot (At the time cost difference when i got the mk6 from the GTI to R). I would not like to use an R in winter up here anyway the front bumper is far too low, power, wheel size and weight, it simply would not go on the roads round here due to how deep the snow gets.
I do find it funny the Black 5 door R i see coming the other way on my way home every night does seem to think he has something to proove as he puts his foot down everytime he sees me in the line of traffic at the junction if im in the mk6. I just shake my head as it just reminds me of the mk2 GTI advert with the astra GTE in it.
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the R is a far better car than the gti.... anyone that thinks other wise is crazy!
R everytime :cool:
Gilly to you every car in the world is better than a Mk6 GTI.
The R is not a better car than the GTI.
The R true enough does offer certain aspects that the GTI does not (such as performance)...
...however...
... the GTI in turn offers advantages over the R (such as improved economy from a newer and more efficient engine, a bigger boot, GTI pedigree e.g. the tartan seats, a fun FWD chassis, and a lower pricetag).
To say one car is point blank better than another car is crazy. Each car offers it's own advantages which carry their own individual weight to the owner of the car.
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Gilly to you every car in the world is better than a Mk6 GTI.
The R is not a better car than the GTI.
The R true enough does offer certain aspects that the GTI does not (such as performance)...
...however...
.. the GTI in turn offers advantages over the R (such as improved economy from a newer and more efficient engine, a bigger boot, GTI pedigree e.g. the tartan seats, a fun FWD chassis, and a lower pricetag).
To say one car is point blank better than another car is crazy. Each car offers it's own advantages which carry their own individual weight to the owner of the car.
Well said.
It is a wonderful car and works like clockwork.
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the R is a far better car than the gti.... anyone that thinks other wise is crazy!
R everytime :cool:
Gilly to you every car in the world is better than a Mk6 GTI.
The R is not a better car than the GTI.
The R true enough does offer certain aspects that the GTI does not (such as performance)...
...however...
... the GTI in turn offers advantages over the R (such as improved economy from a newer and more efficient engine, a bigger boot, GTI pedigree e.g. the tartan seats, a fun FWD chassis, and a lower pricetag).
To say one car is point blank better than another car is crazy. Each car offers it's own advantages which carry their own individual weight to the owner of the car.
the thing is, we are essentially comparing the same car i.e. a mk6 golf. So when we look at the differences, which is mainly performance... i dont see how you can argue the R is not the better car.
If its the car for you or isnt, thats a totally different story, but to say its not better is just madness.
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The way I see it, is the GTI is a great car and the R just improves on it by being 4 wheel drive and having more horsepower, improved suspension and brakes. There both great cars but the R is a better car. It was different when it was the mk5 GTI and the mk5 R32 as both had plus points and minus points, one handled great and the other sounded great but was a bit heavy and did not handle as good. But with the new R the handling is better than the GTI as the added weight is only about 150kg and the car feels better for it. To be honest if I was VW I would have called the new R a GTI-R as this is what it basically is a GTI with a bit more go.
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Car Magazine:
Mk6 Golf GTI 5 stars
Mk6 Golf GTD 4 stars
Mk6 Golf R. 3 stars
Top Gear:
Mk6 Golf GTI 8/10
Mk6 Golf GTD 7/10
Mk6 Golf R 7/10
EVO:
Mk6 Golf GTI 4 stars
Mk6 Golf R 4.5 stars
2 out of 3 magazines prefer the Mk6 Golf GTI.
But they take into account the initial costs and running costs. If you don't care about costs then the R is a better car, as a performance car there is no doubt that it is much much faster that the GTI round a track.
Jim
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Car Magazine:
Mk6 Golf GTI 5 stars
Mk6 Golf GTD 4 stars
Mk6 Golf R. 3 stars
Top Gear:
Mk6 Golf GTI 8/10
Mk6 Golf GTD 7/10
Mk6 Golf R 7/10
EVO:
Mk6 Golf GTI 4 stars
Mk6 Golf GTD 4 stars
Mk6 Golf R 4.5 stars
2 out of 3 magazines prefer the Mk6 Golf GTI.
What do they know ....... :rolleyes:
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Do you not know faster meens its superior, loads of electronic to control traction to make the driver feel he is a good driver is superior, you must have learn't nothing on this forum Asker. :wink:
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Do you not know faster meens its superior, loads of electronic to control traction to make the driver feel he is a good driver is superior, you must have learn't nothing on this forum Asker. :wink:
Yep. It seems we are all idiots. :wink:
Is it also not strange that the 2WD Audi TT is preferred to the 4WD Audi TT by most reviewers? :rolleyes:
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Do you not know faster meens its superior, loads of electronic to control traction to make the driver feel he is a good driver is superior, you must have learn't nothing on this forum Asker. :wink:
Yep. It seems we are all idiots. :wink:
Is it also not strange that the 2WD Audi TT is preferred to the 4WD Audi TT by most reviewers? :rolleyes:
Audi's are different though as most reviewers don't like Audi's 4wd set up saying that the drive is uninvolving.
The R is a better performance car.
Jim
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So because the gti is cheaper to run and buy and more economical than the R does this make the Golf GT160ps better than the GTI ?
I think not,the gti is nice but the R is king of the Golfs. imo.
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w
the R is a far better car than the gti.... anyone that thinks other wise is crazy!
R everytime :cool:
Gilly to you every car in the world is better than a Mk6 GTI.
The R is not a better car than the GTI.
The R true enough does offer certain aspects that the GTI does not (such as performance)...
...however...
... the GTI in turn offers advantages over the R (such as improved economy from a newer and more efficient engine, a bigger boot, GTI pedigree e.g. the tartan seats, a fun FWD chassis, and a lower pricetag).
To say one car is point blank better than another car is crazy. Each car offers it's own advantages which carry their own individual weight to the owner of the car.
the thing is, we are essentially comparing the same car i.e. a mk6 golf. So when we look at the differences, which is mainly performance... i dont see how you can argue the R is not the better car.
If its the car for you or isnt, thats a totally different story, but to say its not better is just madness.
I'm not mad and it's not better. Yes it has 4wd so has better traction. Yes it has a bigger turbo so has better performance from acceleration. But the bigger turbo also has more lag.
This is taken from the OP:
The engine is different, you can feel it - at 2000 revs there's no torque. 6th gear up the hill at 40 and was almost rolling backwords. Had to downshift.
That doesn't sound like progress in my opinion. The R simply has an older, less flexible and less efficient engine.
So because the gti is cheaper to run and buy and more economical than the R does this make the Golf GT160ps better than the GTI ?
I think not,the gti is nice but the R is king of the Golfs. imo.
There's more than just economy and running costs between the R and the GTI. There is also the boot space and the list prices of the car. The GT160 shares the same boot space as the GTI however the R has a smaller boot due to the rear Haldex components intruding into the boot space.
I really like the Golf R and I would consider one as a future car but to say it's a better car overall because of it's performance... it's just being naive. Admittedly it's a better performing car, but it's not a better car outright.
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Car Magazine:
Mk6 Golf GTI 5 stars
Mk6 Golf GTD 4 stars
Mk6 Golf R. 3 stars
Top Gear:
Mk6 Golf GTI 8/10
Mk6 Golf GTD 7/10
Mk6 Golf R 7/10
EVO:
Mk6 Golf GTI 4 stars
Mk6 Golf GTD 4 stars
Mk6 Golf R 4.5 stars
2 out of 3 magazines prefer the Mk6 Golf GTI.
What do they know ....... :rolleyes:
funny how the drivers choice of magazine is the one that got it right! :rolleyes:
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the gti in its std for is sooo slow anyway... the R is much better balanced and offers useable performance where as the gti is happy to just waste what little power it has.
the R boot has the same width and depth as the gti anyway.... it only looses out a few inches in height. if thats your priority get an estate!
ask yourself this (apart from asker because he is always right) if they were the same price, which would you take?? :evil:
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Can't you all just appreciate the lovely car the OP has purchased? Sure he's very happy with the R and has his reasons for this and not having a GTI sat on the drive.
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I have had the good fortune to drive both.
In stop/start London traffic, the GTI was so much easier to drive smoothly with much more torque at low revs Plus, its bigger boot, fun chassis which made it feel fleet of foot, better looks (IMO), wonderful Jacara cloth seats and much better fuel economy (I hate visiting petrol stations especially in the winter) clinched it for me.
Then when I drove them back to back in near Arctic conditions, the R held sway.
However, by this time I owned a GTI and as such freezing conditions are not the norm in London, I was again pretty satisfied I had made the right decision.
Both are excellent cars which are different. However, for me at least, the difference is weighted more favourably towards the GTI.
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I love the OP's car. I'm not saying the GTI is better. I just don't agree with the view that the R is the best Golf you can get. There are different models in the family to suit different tastes and purposes.
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I bought my GTI because I'd always had a yearning for one since my younger days. It does what I require of it in a nicely understated way. I could have waited a few extra months and bought an "R" which is obviously more powerful, but I don't need that extra power to be honest.
So the GTI is the best choice for me and therefore is the better car for ME.
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I bought my GTI because I'd always had a yearning for one since my younger days. It does what I require of it in a nicely understated way. I could have waited a few extra months and bought an "R" which is obviously more powerful, but I don't need that extra power to be honest.
So the GTI is the best choice for me and therefore is the better car for ME.
You've hit the nail on the head there, the best car is the best car for the individual, when I t comes to the best performance that's not a personal view - it's statistics.....
For me the R is a better car than the GTI for what I want, I just don't have £40k to spend on a shopping car :evil:
Jim
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Calm down guys!
Having owned both I can say the R drives better than the GTI. Despite the weight it turns in quicker and is more agile. The engine is stronger at higher revs. That's all facts.
The GTI engine is so good that any engine looks bad in comparison. It’s more punchy at lower revs, more economic, has all the features of a new engine. But VW are clearly keeping the 250PS+ version of it for Golf mk7 GTI.
I see your point saying the GTI is better. GTI is a brilliant car. I think the “disappointment†with the R comes from that simple fact. It’s the classic law of diminishing returns: you have to spend ever more money for little gain. The GTI is so good that the R costing 5k more doesn’t make it a new class. GT--> GTI step for the same £5k makes a huge difference.
As for my choice – as you may remember I badly crashed my GTI and was looking for a replacement. I could have gone for another GTI but I chose an R as I fancied something different. And it is different – no doubt. After a week I have no regrets changing to the R but I need another year or so.
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Take money out of the equation and the R is simply a better car, fact. How is this even a discussion!?
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Take money out of the equation and the R is simply a better car, fact. How is this even a discussion!?
:grin:
because asker owns a gti of course :laugh:
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Take money out of the equation and the R is simply a better car, fact. How is this even a discussion!?
Whilst I agree I think you're missing the point, 'better' is a personal choice, if you're saying it's a better performance car then no one could disagree, if you're talking about a better car in general there isn't a clear answer, it then comes down to personal choice.
Jim
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Take money out of the equation and the R is simply a better car, fact. How is this even a discussion!?
Ok, I will admit that if money is taken out of the equation then the R does become exceptionally appealing compared to the GTI, but the reality is that money is not taken out of the equation.
And in case anyone thinks I'm just sticking up for the GTI, I don't think the GTI is a better car than the R outright either. If I was to be brutally honest then I think the GTD is actually the sweetest choice but even that is not the best car.
You've hit the nail on the head there, the best car is the best car for the individual, when I t comes to the best performance that's not a personal view - it's statistics.....
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Just to add a new slant to it. Mechanically the R is an S3 underneath, and yet how many people would consider the S3 a better car than the GTI. Of course there are many who would say that is is (and for what they need they are right) because it is faster but those who don't need the extra performance would see the increased prices, the increased running costs, the increased weight, and the smaller boot as all negative. The difficulty is that the S3 now has a VW badge on it which makes it more of an in-house fight.
Or, take it back to the Mk5 generation which had (and in fact it's still going) the R32 vs GTI debate. In that debate though there was a bit more to differentiate the models as the GTI was a 2.0 Turbo 4 Cylinder whereas the R32 was the much loved 3.2 V6. This meant an even greater disparity in terms of running costs for arguably less of a performance difference, but again there were similar factors in the argument.
Now of course there's people on every side of the fence, and people like myself who are sitting on top of it. To each individual each car has it's own appeals and downfalls which means everyone has their own opinion on which is the best car.
Heck in my opinion my MINI JCW is the best car in the world. But there's plenty of reasons people might disagree. I'm not here to convince you otherwise.
Gilly - I like you love performance and enjoying the car to the full in that respect. In terms of performance the R does look like the top dog in the VW family tree but I remain disappointed that VW didn't give it the full fat newer engine. If they had then the running costs might not have been so high.
To the OP - I really do like your car. If I was getting an R it would be in that colour so I think it looks spot on. I'm glad you have gone for a change and I'm looking forward to reading how your ownership progresses.
To Asker - I have always agreed with your views that the GTI is the model that maintains the heritage of the GTI (with the Jacara seats, the classis FWD layout and the 'jack-of-all-trades' approach to motoring) but that doesn't mean our model is the best Golf in every respect. The R is ultimately faster (and more capable in rough weather) thanks to more power and 4wd.
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Gilly - I like you love performance and enjoying the car to the full in that respect. In terms of performance the R does look like the top dog in the VW family tree but I remain disappointed that VW didn't give it the full fat newer engine. If they had then the running costs might not have been so high.
yes the penny pinching cheap skates!! :grin:
I do agree that the new engine is much more efficient when cruisig along... although I dont think there is much in it when pushing on. Either way you are totally correct in saying that VW have played this one just right by keeping development cost to a minimum and maximising profit. Just as the S3 has been heavily discounted recently... i expect the R to be the same in a few years time.
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Just to add a new slant to it. Mechanically the R is an S3 underneath, and yet how many people would consider the S3 a better car than the GTI. Of course there are many who would say that is is (and for what they need they are right) because it is faster but those who don't need the extra performance would see the increased prices, the increased running costs, the increased weight, and the smaller boot as all negative. The difficulty is that the S3 now has a VW badge on it which makes it more of an in-house fight.
I did consider an S3 there was only £2K in it price wise (after discount) and the S3 was far superior equipped than the GTI. After driving both i went for the GTI for the reason, the steering felt better, the ride felt better, the turbo lag was less. The turbo lag is why i went for a GTI i have spent the previous past few years running a TDI130 as a daily driver which has quite abit of lag and was really getting on my wick and so i wanted a smoother progress from my next car. The Pirelli mk5 just had too much lag for the way i drive daily so i waited for the mk6. The S3 suffered the same lag as the R's and Pirelli. The R/S3 maybe faster, it may corner better, It grips better but as an alrounder the GTI (sounds like the advert for the mk2 GTI v astra GTE16V again :grin: ) for me i felt better for my useage of the car.
Thinking about it this is starting to sound like the old mk2 Golf GTI 8V v Golf GTI 16V arguments... I always liked the 8V better :tongue:
As for price i know i have said it previously on this forum but i had a large cash budget when i was looking for my daily driver replacment but i did not want something i would become tired of a year or so down the line. The lag and fuel consumption were large considerations to me as a daily driver. I could have bought a last of the line knockdown R32 at ~£18K new but i did not for similar reasons.
The 4WD system i would probably rare use on the R anyway the way i drive 99% of the time and unlike others on here i have not had traction problems with the front wheel drive layout. Maybe previous experience of front wheel drive cars and performance driver training cources are the reasons.
As for performance in todays traffic and road conditions im happy with the perfomance of a mk2 GTI so the mk6 GTI is good enough for me on my daily commuter trips and weekend moor trips. Infact i get more fun driving low powered cars of around 60bhp than faster cars as you have to hussle them about and also predict traffic/learn to overtake correctly again.
PS
I do like the Golf R its a great car and im happy for the original thread poster as im sure its the car for him, its just not for me.
What i do find a shame is the cheak of VW that they did not use the alloy suspension parts that are fitted to the S3, or spec it similar inside. Cheap cost cutting imo.
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Nice R Radek - welcome to the club.
Haven't been here for a while but I'll give you my opinion. When you're attacking your favorite road and grinning from ear to ear, doesn't matter whether it's in a GTD, GTI, Ed35 or an R. You know you made the right choice buying a fast Golf.
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Ive owned both and would never consider going back to a mk6 GTI after owning an R.
The only car I attempted to trade the R against was the BMW 1M!
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I do find it funny the Black 5 door R i see coming the other way on my way home every night does seem to think he has something to proove as he puts his foot down everytime he sees me in the line of traffic at the junction if im in the mk6. I just shake my head as it just reminds me of the mk2 GTI advert with the astra GTE in it.
I wouldn't have a point to prove if I saw you Snoop, as I now for a fact you would turn away when you saw my R! As all mk6 GTI drivers do :rolleyes:
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I'd love to know what preceded this thread :sad:
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See, how open minded and fair I am .........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuB5WpmTbMU
And this is the ultimate test ............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SWYZ8p7_WA&feature=related
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See, how open minded and fair I am .........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuB5WpmTbMU
It's taking far too ling to download to my iPhone 4, all I saw was a red gti then a rising blue R - my advice would be don't start a poll...... :grin:
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See, how open minded and fair I am .........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuB5WpmTbMU
It's taking far too ling to download to my iPhone 4, all I saw was a red gti then a rising blue R - my advice would be don't start a poll...... :grin:
I included another ........
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See, how open minded and fair I am .........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuB5WpmTbMU
And this is the ultimate test ............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SWYZ8p7_WA&feature=related
SOOOOOOO????? Whats you point??????
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Give me a Golf R with the newer engine and ko4 turbo, tartan seats and the same boot space as the GTI and you have the best Golf.
:smiley:
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AndyC: It should not take a genius to get the point.
I'll assist: The heading of this thread should have the clue.
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I loved the second one with crazy music and pics of the tortoise symbolising the GTI :wink:
(http://printstationary.net/school/images/turtle.jpg)
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DSG and R FTW :grin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=GCfUFP4cgyw
I have to be honest... I'd had my Mk 6 R for over a year now and there's not a single day where I got in it and wished I was in a Mk 6 GTI instead (though I've never had a GTI, so that maybe explains it). There were a few times where I missed the burble of the Mk 5 R32 though. :smiley:
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Well im crazy then,
Me too.
No doubt the R is faster. And more surefooted.
I don't like it to look at as much as the GTI or the interior - both subjective, of course.
Whilst the extra power and bigger turbo would be nice...I just find it a bit dull to drive...similar to the S3 really...efficient, quick...but far duller than the GTI.
The fact that the GTI doesn't just grip and go, probably makes it the more entertaining in my mind.
And at £36-37k for the spec of R I would have wanted...it wasn't worth the extra cash.
Lovely cars...just not for me.
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I drove both cars back to back and opted to go with the GTI. I found it a more entertaining drive and lighter on it's feet - more torque at the lower revs. With the Revo Stage 1 remap it's plenty fast too.
Looks wise there is litte in it for me, prefer the rims on the GTI and you can't get an R in Carbon Steel!
I'm sure a chipped R would be a beast though. But for that money I would rather a Cayman S.
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I drove both cars back to back and opted to go with the GTI. I found it a more entertaining drive and lighter on it's feet - more torque at the lower revs. With the Revo Stage 1 remap it's plenty fast too.
Looks wise there is litte in it for me, prefer the rims on the GTI and you can't get an R in Carbon Steel!
I'm sure a chipped R would be a beast though. But for that money I would rather a Cayman S.
I imagine the fact that you dont get much wet weather probably helped also :grin:
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Take money out of the equation and the R is simply a better car, fact. How is this even a discussion!?
:grin:
because asker owns a gti of course :laugh:
But you have neither. :rolleyes:
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Take money out of the equation and the R is simply a better car, fact. How is this even a discussion!?
:grin:
because asker owns a gti of course :laugh:
But you have neither. :rolleyes:
didnt realise you needed to in order to have an opinion :cool: