GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: jmsheahan on 29 July 2011, 18:56
-
I've recently moved out of student accommodation and have been trying to sort out getting our deposit back (a familiar tale with any landlord). Basically, despite the house being a health hazard for 2 years (shower catching fire due to dodgy wiring, ceiling caving in, painting over mouldy walls etc) and him getting away with it he's being a nightmare over the bond.
He's accusing myself and one other tenant of breaking two freezer drawers. We didn't however to shut him up we said we'd pay for replacements - however he's decided he wants us to sort it. As he has some piece of crap freezer, I spend 2 days tracing down said drawers and finally get them ordered, £70 out of pocket.
I then receive a singular drawer to the wrong address, meaning I have to shell out again to get it sent to his house. The other drawer is on back order which and I quote 'could take months'. I prove this to him by sending him the invoice, clearly stating I've paid the full amount and it's not my fault.
He then decides he's still going to keep my bond until the other is delivered but my housemate can have his back, even though I've already paid for the drawer. The bond is £245 each so a lot of cash. In my opinion he's being totally unreasonable considering I've bent over backwards, had a complete mare with the supplier and am totally skint (I had to bail my housemate out as he couldn't afford the money for the drawer).
Any advice on how to rectify this situation? I'm sick of this money grabbing asshole and really don't know what my options are :angry:. Would citizens advice be an option?
Any advice appreciated :sad: (and thanks for reading this!)
-
1. Did you sign a tennancy contract?
2. Did you have an inventory done?
read This (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?117572#post1188882)
-
P.S.
Don't feck around with this numpty, issue an immediate letter of legal action if he messes you around.
PM me for any help on this.
Jonathan.
-
hmm, if im reading right, then your main problem is the fact you agreed to replace the drawers, which i think as far as the courts will see it, is an admission of guilt, regardless of whether you did it or not. And then it all comes down to the tenancy agreement too.
you could try filing a claim in small claim court, would cost you a few quid but the notion of it going through the court may entice him to be a bit more reasonable, failing that, as you would have already paid for case to be lodged, just continue with it and see how it pans out.
-
no inventory no cry
man up... it happens to all students. one day when you are big and own a property you can do the same to some dirty little student. balance is restored :cool:
-
no inventory no cry
man up... it happens to all students. one day when you are big and own a property you can do the same to some dirty little student. balance is restored :cool:
:evil: :evil: :evil: :grin:
-
P.S.
Don't feck around with this numpty, issue an immediate letter of legal action if he messes you around.
PM me for any help on this.
Jonathan.
jonathen FTW!! he is the man! :wink: :cool:
-
Not quite.
No inventory = not allowed to deduct money from the bond.
And I quote:
• Golden Rule: If there is no initial inventory, the landlord has no grounds for withholding the deposit (unless there are rent arrears). This is because the landlord, without an inventory, is unable to prove what the state of the property was at the start of the tenancy. Therefore it is not in your best interesticon, as tenant, to insist on an initial inventory.
-
Again, I quote:
The following is a Letter Before Action (LBA), which you must amend according to your situation :
Dear Sir,
I am writing to you concerning my tenancy of the premises at [address].
I request that you return my deposit of £_______, as the premises were left clean and in good repair when the tenancy ended. Allowing for fair wear and tear, the premises were left in the same condition as they were in at the beginning of the tenancy.
As the deposit was paid after 6 April 2007, you the landlord are required by law to keep the money in a separate account, and to provide the tenant with a written statement detailing (a) exactly what the deposit covers and (b) when the money will be returned. Please provide evidence that you have complied with this statutory duty.
The deposit must not be regarded as extra rent, to be used to improve the condition of the property.
Any amount deducted from it must be equivalent to the amount needed to replace “like with likeâ€. For example, if the carpet was worn at the start of the tenancy, you cannot retain the amount that would pay for a brand new carpet.
You cannot deduct the replacement value of any item, even if it was brand new at the start of the tenancy, as this would be "betterment". You can only deduct from the deposit a percentage of the item's value, based on (a) its on condition at the start of the tenancy (which you must prove using the inventory from the start of the tenancy), and (b) the expected life of the item.
Nor can you make deductions from the deposit for general “wear and tearâ€. The tenant is only liable for damage that creates extra cost; the deposit is not there to provide a redecoration fund. You must redecorate at your own expense.
You must in any event prepare a dilapidation schedule, and you must have the relevant tradesmen give a written quotation (not an estimate) for each item of cost that you include in it.
I request that you give me receipts or invoices for work carried out, or quotations for work yet to be done.
The onus is on you to prove that there are circumstances justifying the retention of any part of the deposit, and to date you have not provided any such evidence.
I will therefore be in a position to demonstrate that it is unreasonable for you to keep any part of the deposit, should you be unable to produce the requested evidence and matters proceed to court.
You must remember that the deposit is my money. You must account for it properly. It is a common misconception that the deposit belongs to the landlord, but that is not the case and withholding it without proper grounds is unlawful.
I require your reply to arrive no later than 14 days after the date of this letter, together with your cheque for any amount not in dispute. If I receive no satisfactory reply by then, I will begin a county courticon action for recovery of my deposit without further warning.
The Court can order you to pay back the deposit, and the proceedings are very straightforward. Also, the Courts are very sympathetic to tenants whose landlords do not fulfil their statutory obligations.
I look forward to hearing from you within 14 days.
Yours faithfully,
[Signed]
Note: This letter is only an example, you must modify it to meet the actual circumstances of your case. For instance, if you accept that you are responsible for some damage or cleaning that needs to be done, say so in the letter. Acting reasonably may earn you credit from the court.
This letter is full of WIN!
Jonathan.
-
jonathan strikes again! :grin:
-
no inventory no cry
man up... it happens to all students. one day when you are big and own a property you can do the same to some dirty little student. balance is restored :cool:
Thanks for all the replies (especially Elvi) - will have a good read through, some good advice. No inventory was done, nothing was signed. I know it happens to all students however we are talking £245 (+£70) over a £30 drawer here - if I manned up any more I'd be decking him one (something I'm trying extremely hard not too!)
-
I had a nightmare landlord when I was at University. 9 of us went to rent a house for the 2nd year and he asked us for post-dated cheques for each months' rent as well as the deposit. (It was 1993) I did not have my cheque book with me at the time (waiting for a new one from the bank which they had sent to my home address) so the Landlord said I could drop them round at a later date. I then failed my exams and did not go back.
I hadn't signed anything so I don't believe he had any rights over me. He then sent me 2 threatening letters so I wrote one back saying that I had no money, was out of a job and had no likely prospect of money in the near future. I suggested that if he wanted to take me to court he should go ahead as he would win nothing but a day out in court. Never heard from him again.
I phoned the accommodation office at the University asking them to advertise the room and when told who the Landlord was they said I had had a lucky escape as he was a nasty thug of a man who never kept his houses in order. Lucky escape I guess... :rolleyes:
-
Send the letter, claim back all the money you spent so far.
Dodgy Landlords! :angry:
-
As a landlord myself, i take photographic evidence as this is always best. The flats i have are always newly refurbished and I expect to get them back in the same condition.... if i dont, I am digging into that bond, plain and simple.
Sounds like your flat was not new to start with so its a grey area. Just hope he doesnt have pictures from when it was. lesson learnt anyway :wink:
-
Sounds like your flat was not new to start with so its a grey area. Just hope he doesnt have pictures from when it was. lesson learnt anyway :wink:
Again, no. No grey area here. If his landlord has not taken an inventory he has no right to withold/use the bond for repairs.
The law is quite clear.
-
Sounds like your flat was not new to start with so its a grey area. Just hope he doesnt have pictures from when it was. lesson learnt anyway :wink:
Again, no. No grey area here. If his landlord has not taken an inventory he has no right to withold/use the bond for repairs.
The law is quite clear.
Re-read what i wrote.... :rolleyes:
the grey area comes usually when you talk about the condition of things. I certainly wouldnt have listed "working freezer draw". However if it comes to move out time then I am going to be deducting cash if its broken. Inventory or no inventory there is already an admission of guilt here.
-
Again, wrong.
He said, and I quote:
He's accusing myself and one other tenant of breaking two freezer drawers. We didn't however to shut him up we said we'd pay for replacements - however he's decided he wants us to sort it. As he has some piece of crap freezer, I spend 2 days tracing down said drawers and finally get them ordered, £70 out of pocket.
So no admission there. :rolleyes:
The chap is young and clearly not up to speed with his rights in respect to his tennancy agreement, hence his offer to replace the shelves as the path of least resistance. But certainly no admission of guilt.
But this is all irrelevant. Because, as I have stated above, He has NO inventory. He could have smashed up the freezer with a lump hammer, and still, the landlord would have no comeback.
Taking pictures means nothing without an inventory signed by both landlord and tennant.
As you said, you're a landlord yourself. Yet you don't seem to know these things!
I'd be happy to get Bert and Ernie to spell it out for you if you still don't understand.
-
you can get bern and ernie to suck you off if you like... i always collect for damages.
I look forward to seeing how this turns out. there is usually two sides to every story and seldom are students the innocent party (been there done that)
as for the freezer draws.. i imagine they broke themselves. I know for a fact they happen to get a little wild whilst chilling out :rolleyes:
p.s. you would be surprised how many student sign up to their tenancy agreements without even noticing the inventory attached. You may want to just check and be sure he doesnt, and that you havent signed anything without reading... a common student error.
-
You clearly are an imbecile!
If the OP did not sign/or there was not, an inventory:
THE LANDLORD CANNOT WITHOLD THE DEPOSIT OR DEDUCT FOR DAMAGES
No ifs, no buts. The law is crystal clear.
If YOU do this, you are an irresponsible landlord and are breaking the law.
End of.
-
You clearly are an imbecile!
If the OP did not sign/or there was not, an inventory:
THE LANDLORD CANNOT WITHOLD THE DEPOSIT OR DEDUCT FOR DAMAGES
No ifs, no buts. The law is crystal clear.
If YOU do this, you are an irresponsible landlord and are breaking the law.
End of.
..... and once again for the foolio
p.s. you would be surprised how many student sign up to their tenancy agreements without even noticing the inventory attached. You may want to just check and be sure he doesnt, and that you havent signed anything without reading... a common student error.
like i said... students dont always look into exactly what they are signing.
p.s. yes i am an irresponsible landlord.. do i give a fcuk :rolleyes: no because i am not left out of pocket because some wisearse student breaks some sh1t :wink:
as you were captain
-
You clearly are an imbecile!
If the OP did not sign/or there was not, an inventory:
THE LANDLORD CANNOT WITHOLD THE DEPOSIT OR DEDUCT FOR DAMAGES
No ifs, no buts. The law is crystal clear.
If YOU do this, you are an irresponsible landlord and are breaking the law.
End of.
..... and once again for the foolio
p.s. you would be surprised how many student sign up to their tenancy agreements without even noticing the inventory attached. You may want to just check and be sure he doesnt, and that you havent signed anything without reading... a common student error.
like i said... students dont always look into exactly what they are signing.
p.s. yes i am an irresponsible landlord.. do i give a fcuk :rolleyes: no because i am not left out of pocket because some wisearse student breaks some sh1t :wink:
as you were captain
One last time. :rolleyes:
And I quote:
"Thanks for all the replies (especially Elvi) - will have a good read through, some good advice. No inventory was done, nothing was signed. I know it happens to all students however we are talking £245 (+£70) over a £30 drawer here - if I manned up any more I'd be decking him one (something I'm trying extremely hard not too!)"
End quote:
So. NO INVENTORY! = NOT ALLOWED TO WITHOLD DEPOSIT/DEDUCT DAMAGES.
STFU! Fool!
-
oh no look... an person getting angry on the internet :rolleyes:
like i said "students dont always look into exactly what they are signing"
i will more than happily "STFU idiot" if you would say that to my face :wink: no didnt think so.
-
Well enough bickering I think?
R32UK I get your point as a landlord you can never document everything e.g. 'non-broken freezer draw' is not likely to make the inventory, however that said 'frezzer - good working order no damage' might and/or photographs. I can appreciate if you know for sure something in your house has been damaged you will push to get it replaced at the tenants cost at the end of the year.
BUT
As Elvi is clearly pointing out IF you don't provide a decent inventory you have no legal right to. I have just finished with some hell landlords! I sh!t you not everything from the 20p plastic drain strainers to the colour (and finish) of the paint was in the inventory! They had ridiculously high expectations and effectively wanted the house returned to show home condition at the end of the year. As Elvi's letter template points out the deposit is NOT to be used as a redecoration fund (as my landlords have used some of it for - un-necessaries too)
With regards to the original poster I feel your pain my friend, landlords can be total C*$ts I suggest you take Elvi's advice, send them a letter so they know you arnt happy and arnt f**king around.
Here is a question for you Elvi. At the beginning of my tenancy we had to sign an additional agreement (written up by the landlord) regarding the off street parking area. It had recently been built and in fairness was totally free of oil. They were clear they were very picky about it and we were not to get any oil on it else we would have to pay for it to be re-lanscaped.
Long story short we got some oil on it over the year. We knew it was going to cause trouble and I spent 3 lots of 30 mins on my hands and knees scrubbing at it with oil remover. The patches faded but were still fairly visible, needless to say it was not good enough and they wanted us to pay £240 to have it re-landscaped (Their cheapest quote was £300 but they said they wouldn't make us pay all of it) I begged and pleaded both before and after signing my acceptance of how much damage deposit we were to loose (I didn't really have much other choice) but they insisted it needed to be done.
I signed my acceptance of them taking the money from the deposit to have the work done, everything has gone through I have the rest of my money back and a confirmation letter from the deposit scheme HOWEVER, we moved out 1 month ago and the work has still not been done. I have knocked on the door and asked the new tenants if they have been informed by the landlord that work is due to happen on a certain date and they had absolutely no knowledge of it at all.
What are my legal rights?! surely if they have insisted the work needs doing and charged me £240 for it they HAVE to get it done? but I have already signed my acceptance of my loss and got the rest of my money back?
-
Jesus this has got a bit hairy since I left :lipsrsealed:
R32, you are right in respect that I'm not up to speed with my tenancy rights hence my post asking for advice on here. I've been given plenty and it's appreciated. I'm ringing the landlord later in a bid to sort this all out (again). While I realise landlords have to cover their expenses etc I don't particularly appreciate the comments about students. We aren't all house trashing muppets and the house is seriously 100 times better in terms of cleanliness than when we arrived. The drawers were cracked when we moved in and have broken through natural wear and tear. Plastic gets brittle in the freezer, especially when it's no thicker than cling film.
I have plenty of stories and a few photo's of the damages but it's my word against his there. I'm talking dodgy wiring, 'something' eating the carpet, and a seriously damp wall (painting over mould) and covering an electrical switch in said wall with a 'do not use' sign next to it claiming it to be fixed :angry: :rolleyes:
New plan of action today I think is to say take £15 from each of the bonds, meaning I'm still out of pocket but there is no loss for him whatsoever. He has the money and the drawer on order. If he refuses that he's a completely unreasonable c*nt and I will be forced to take legal advice. Only problem with that is his son is a barrister.
No offence R32 but I f**king hate student landlords. They make a bloody fortune every month and NEVER live up to their requirements. Out of 5 households I know of, none have had a hassle free transaction.
I shall report back later.
-
Update. I don't think he has the deposit registered - threatened legal action today and he seems to have bucked up a bit. After him waffling a complete load of sh!te the agreement is £15 taken from each bond to cover the drawer and he will refund it when the drawer comes (apparently).
Once/if the bond shows up in my account I'm half tempted just to cancel the order and tell him to sort it himself (perhaps a tad spiteful). Such a dodgy muppet!
edit - new addition after my housemate has been round to see him - apparently we are lucky we don't get charged for cleaning (£300 yeah right, he hasn't done anything of the sought). I'd love to see the receipts seeing as it's bound to be b*llsh!t. Place was spotless when we left, so much better than we went in :angry: Priorities obviously lie in bogus claims rather than fixing the hazardous electrical switches and damp walls. Forgot to mention the tv used to change channel and lights dimmed when a living room switch was used :rolleyes: Agh, sorry rant over!
-
no worries jmsheahan :wink: i know that not all students are like that but have lived with enough to know than many are... usually after a couple of beers :evil:
p.s. i dont rent to students. working pro's only. :cool:
-
I signed a contract for a new flat earlier and what concerned me was what could be considered grey areas in the inventory, for example:
'Hallway carpet - good condition with a few marks', to me that sounded very ambiguous and when questioned about it the landlord agreed, I insisted that photographs were taken and a more detailed inventory was written before I would sign anything.
It took more time but I now have signed photographic evidence of all marks on walls/floors and an extremely thorough inventory (also signed by the landlord).
However.....in a similar query to that of HARVS1789UK, in the contract it states that carpets must be professionally cleaned before the tenancy agreement ends and that windows must be cleaned inside & out on a regular basis.
Now, the previous tenant obviously hasn't had the carpets cleaned professionally before leaving the flat and the flat is on the 3rd floor so cleaning the outside of the windows regularly is impractical and clearly hasn't been done in a long time. If this hasn't been done prior to my tenancy agreement beginning I am to assume that I can get away with it as well or not?
I like to cover my arse as much as I can when it comes to landlords as, like most, when I was a student I had difficulties reclaiming my full deposit due to disputes over the condition of items. Where would I stand at the end of my agreement if the windows had not been cleaned outside and the carpets had not been professionally cleaned (assuming they were cleaned to a good standard)?
-
Hey Dom,
Those two conditions were also written into my last contract. As well as the professional cleaning of any soft furnishings (sofa covers, curtains etc) IF they have become stained, soiled or marked during the tenancy, ours had not yet they still charged us to take them all off and wash them :@
We did pay to have the carpets professionally cleaned as they were very clean when we arrived (though we saw no receipt to say professionally done) My advice would be to ask the landlord 'Are the carpets and windows going to be professionally cleaned before I move in?' If he says no then ask him 'Was that not part of the previous tenants contract as it is in mine?' Im guessing he will be using the same contract, if so Id say to him if the carpets/windows are cleaned to a satisfactory level (by himself) you are perfectly happy with that as long as he only expects them to be cleaned to a satisfactory level (by you) at the end of the tenancy.
Same for the windows, if they have been pro cleaned on your arrival fine you will do the same but if not you don't think its fair for you to have to on leaving. You should be expected to return the house in the same state you were given it, your not his live in handyman who pays for him to get his house back cleaner :)
-
So, today I receive a cheque. Should be £245 minus the £15 we agreed over the phone to be taken from my bond. £15 to be taken from the my housemates. He sends a cheque for £215. He's done the same with my housemates cheque - basically taken double what he said he would. How f*cking hard is ffs :angry:
The cheque is stamped by his bank and his name. Would this mean he's using personal cheques rather than ones from a holding account? Seeing as I've been perfectly reasonable, (beyond reasonable!),I think my next plan of action is ring him, tell him to lick my anus and then cancel the second drawer order which should balance everything out ish (bar £15).
Farking landlord c@nt!