GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: 16vmk3ash on 08 September 2003, 13:20
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I have a MK3 16V and i am planning on fitting a new suspension myself with the use of a haynes manuel.
What i need to know though is it a straight forward job?
how long would you say it should take me considering i have never done a suspension before?
other than spring compressors will i need any other special tools?
when fitting the kit will i need to replace anything else such as nuts etc ( u know once removed they have to be renewed items)?
Suspension kits, do they have new bushes in the kit also?
Would it be a good idea to replace anything else while i am doing it, top mounts etc?
Also i was told by AMD that the best suspension for my car within the ?200 - ?400 range is Koni adj Dampers with Eibach springs!, but i have seen a few cheaper suspension kits which i would like peoples opinions on, the kits are as follows:
Koni SSK Kit ?275
FK Suspension Kit ?249
FK Edition Coilover Kit ?399
The Koni Eibach kit is ?425
Any help would be apreciated! Thanks
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Eibach springs and koni dampers would be what i would recommend. You should be able to do the job yourself but probably best to get someone to give you a hand. Allow 4 hours for the front and 4 hours for the back if you haven't done the job before. Replace bump stops and top mounts when doing the job. I would also replace all nuts and bolts , as the old ones will probably be rotten and sh!t. You won't need any other special tools except spring compressors, however you will need some 'beefy' bars to get the fixings off.
Good luck ;)
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8hr! i was thinging at the most 4.
Anyway you said replace the bump stops and nuts and bolts, would i get these in the kit or will i have to buy these seperatly? if seperate what would i be looking at ?5 -?10? how much would you say for the top mounts as well?
The Koni Eibach combo, is this much better than the Koni SSK kit?
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The bump stops , top mounts ,nuts and bolts will have to bought separately. Top mounts are about ?20 each, bump stops about ?10-15 each, nuts and bolts not a lot. Go to vw for the mounts, don't get cheap ones i've seen the result!
Either kit you quoted should be sh!t hot ;D
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must admit i have only ever had bad experiences with konis,and after reading a post on another forum "look at sig for clue" so have many other people,front leaking dampers all over the place ,I know the guarantee is good but how often do you want to change them!personally i think konis have a problem with the seal on the fronts,as for the first post the prices you have been given are very good what ever set up you go for.
you pay your money you take a chance.
my personal prefrance is bilsteins shocks.
springs depends what you want eibach,h&r, or one i have been using of late with no complaints are apex not to low but you still get a nice ride ,not harsh.
regards and best of luck with your choice
kevin
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I was thinking of a Bilstein streetline kit before, there just under ?200, but i was told by a guy at AMD that there crap!
Below is a copy of the email i recieved from him -
Hi Ashey,
If you are going to change your air filter I would recommend a panel filter keeping your standard air box, with regard to a cam upgrade you will spend around ?700 + VAT for around 5BHP extra, but if you fitted a gas flowed head & had a remap(?1900 + VAT) you will get around 185+BHP. I would suggest you stick with the standard VAG spark plugs.
We do deal with Bilstein Koni, H&R & Eibach but I find that the Bilstein Kit is very harsh on the Golf MK3 the best combination is Koni sport shocks with Eibach or H&R springs.
Regards
Craig
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So its gona cost me about ?200 just for top mounts and bump stops! i dident realise i would have to fork out that much on top of the kit! i'me gona end up skint here!
I will need about 8 bump stops wont i, and 4 top mounts?, do you know of a place where i could get the bump stops cheap?
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hi m8 when i mentioned bilstein i was not on about buying a KIT thats is why i mentioned shocks and springs ,as in billy shocks eibach or h&r or apex springs,to match, that kit you mentioned is ok but a little harsh , i have used this kit and the sachs/ boge kit and for the money you pay ! well as i said you pay your money you take a chance,some are very happy with this set up ,thats up to you
regards kevin
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You will need 2 top mounts for the fronts with bearings(the backs don't get worn, no steering on them),and 4 bump stops. Some kits might include some of these items, it certainly won't cost you another 200 bar!
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Contact C&R enterprises in Nottingham and ask about weitic suspension kits. I got one for my vr6 last year for ?300 delivered (with bump stops). Very good quality kit :D
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Whats the ride like with the Weitic?
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Checked out the kit, which 1 have u got fitted the EC, GT or the TX? and what drop did u go for the 25mm or the 50mm?
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I think the one i got they don't make anymore. The drop is 25mm , and the ride is firm but not to harsh. I think the equivalent is the ec or gt kit. C&R seem to know there stuff, give them a ring for a chat.
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weitic., never heard any good points about these! I know a couple of people that use it and well can't wait to lose it, thats on mk2 golfs mind not mk3 ! as said earlier pay your money take a chance ! its up to you what you like!
regards kevin
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Kevin,
I'm not being funny mate but you seem to think everything is sh!t ;) Konis have the reputation of being the best money can buy, Modulator has just bought some and they do look very well made. As for the weitic kit , it is made in germany, and the kit i received was of the highest quality , unlike the boge sh!t i got from GSF. What you got on your corrado ?
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it had i think i got the name correct powertech ? coilovers but they were way to harsh from harry nijjar at super golfs , so have now gone back to shocks and springs,shes running bilsteins sport shocks with apex springs and vr6 top mounts with powerflex bushes only lowered 35mm so have got a little bit of comfort !
As for in my eyes everything is crap!! :o i have said from the start of this thread you pay your money you take a chance , i personaly have had problems with konis and so have lots of other people i know,so i was just airing my views,as for the weitec set up , i truthfully have never heard a good word said about them,but as stated thats on mk2s, cgti chassis section is a good place to view reports of all types of suspension set ups,
I think suspension is a personal matter some like it slammed and very harsh and others just want a nice stance with better handling,
GOLFVR6 no offence ment just sharing my experience.
regards kevin :)
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Having driven GOLF VR6's VR6 I can say that the kit he has is excellent, it rides far better than any other MK3 I have driven and compared to what it used to be like it is like a different car.
As for the Koni's, I have heard about problems with leaking but any mass produced will have problems, you cant help it and I hear that Koni will repair of replace with no quibble which is more than most the other makes do.
I have Eibach springs on my car and will soon have Koni dampers all round. In my eyes this is the best set up for the money I want to spend and I am sure I will be pleased with the result.
As for changing the front suspension, I have got it down to about 15 mins a side now with the help of GOLF VR6 and the only reason we are so good is replacing Boge suspension and GSF top mounts.
You do indeed pay your money and take your choice. :-*
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Having driven GOLF VR6's VR6 I can say that the kit he has is excellent, it rides far better than any other MK3 I have driven and compared to what it used to be like it is like a different car.
As for the Koni's, I have heard about problems with leaking but any mass produced will have problems, you cant help it and I hear that Koni will repair of replace with no quibble which is more than most the other makes do.
I have Eibach springs on my car and will soon have Koni dampers all round. In my eyes this is the best set up for the money I want to spend and I am sure I will be pleased with the result.
As for changing the front suspension, I have got it down to about 15 mins a side now with the help of GOLF VR6 and the only reason we are so good is replacing Boge suspension and GSF top mounts.
You do indeed pay your money and take your choice. :-*
the ride with the konis is sh1t hot but keep your eibach springs, i have tried both the eibach koni set up and the koni ssk, and to be fair the first is in my eyes the best set up!I think this point can be argued all day,whats best ,whats lowest ,whats more comfortable,etc,etc,etc,but we all have our prefferences to what we think is best thats why we take our time to join forums and to get as much info as we can and to help out other members or to put our views across!
I personally have not used the weitec set up and i am not slagging of GOLFVR6 ride at all, as said its a personal thing thank god we are all different!!
on another note i have used avo coilovers on approx. four of my dubs without any probs but on a other forum they do nothing but slag them off, .So everyones opinion is different,some get good results ,others bad.
you pay your money you take your chance ::)
regards kevin
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We will see what Koni dampers and eibach springs are like put together soon, when you wanna get it done Mod?
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It will need to be done soon as I'm scared the struts are gonna go through the bonnet when the GSF mounts fail.
No worries kevin, thats what this forum is about getting tips and ideas from others. I will keep the Eibachs as they are excellent quality and they are the same colour as my car lol.
love the corrado, thats a wicked motor.
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Modulater - when u gona get the kit fitted, next week?
i am gona try and hold out buying the same kit untill you get yours fitted coz i wana how good it is compared to golfvr6 Weitec kit before i buy!
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The eibachs and konis will better than the weitic kit, but it will cost you sh!t loads more :D
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No worries Kevin , i was just making an observation. I think its the same with any aftermarket product, you pay your money and take a chance! ;)
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same here vr we all get some good points and some bad ones
regards kevin ;) ;)
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nice one :D
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It will need to be done soon as I'm scared the struts are gonna go through the bonnet when the GSF mounts fail.
No worries kevin, thats what this forum is about getting tips and ideas from others. I will keep the Eibachs as they are excellent quality and they are the same colour as my car lol.
love the corrado, thats a wicked motor.
that set up will give fantastic handling and a nice stance ,not to low so should not give you any probs at all m8
best off luck ;)
regards kevin
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Should be going on next week hopefully :D
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Put it on today with new VW top mounts.
The ride is in a different league compared to the BOGE kit or standard ones and the novelty of popping the bonnet and adjusting the stiffness wont go for a while yet I am sure.
I would say the best money spent on the car.
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Put it on today with new VW top mounts.
The ride is in a different league compared to the BOGE kit or standard ones and the novelty of popping the bonnet and adjusting the stiffness wont go for a while yet I am sure.
I would say the best money spent on the car.
IM pleased for you mate,happy conering ;)
regards kevin
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I've just finished fitting lowered/uprated springs & shox to my 1994 Golf III VR6. The kit I bought was Sachs/Boge Turbo (?250), but fitment of the Koni/Bilstein kit and others (excluding coilover kits) is similar.
For anyone else reading this who's interested in lowering/uprating suspension on a Mk III, here's the benefit of my experience..
Two types of suspension are fitted to golf mk3 models, "plus" suspension (GTI 8V, GTI16V & VR6) and "standard" suspension (all other models). Golfs with "plus" suspension always have the 5-stud wheel fitment.
The "plus" suspension underwent a specification change in 1994, but the only differences are at the front - On earlier cars, the top of the spring is tapered and uses a smaller spring retaining cap.
Some suspension manufacturers list two kits for GTI/VR6, one for ->'94 and one for '94 onwards, but other kits (including the Boge Turbo) only fit the later type suspension.
If you've got a 1994 (or earlier) model, I'd recommend checking your VIN with VW to check what type of suspension you have before buying & fitting your new springs. It's most annoying to spend 2 hours taking everything apart only to find the front springs don't fit... :-\
Fortunately, later type suspension kits can be made to fit to an earlier car by just replacing the front upper spring caps (?20) and the front top mounts (?35). Not a big deal, as you'll need to replace the top mounts anyway.
At the rear, the bump stops always need to be replaced, as these are exposed to moisture and dirt and perish quickly. Replacements are ?17 each. The front ones are not so exposed and should be OK unless your car has done high mileage.
All prices quoted are for the genuine VW parts because you really don't want to use cheap copies on such a safety-critical part of the car.
Top nuts (front and rear) also need to be replaced, but these are included with the Boge kit, and should be with other kits as well.
Here are all the tools I used:
For front top mount:
21mm Spark plug socket (included in most socket sets) to hold/turn mounting nut.
24mm open spanner - to hold/ turn spark plug socket...
7mm allen wrench - to hold/turn central shaft.
General Stuff:
Standard socket set
Standard ring spanner set
Spring Compressors (?15 from Halfords)
2ft breaker bar
Torque Wrench
Once the new suspension is on, you will need a full 4-wheel alignment professionally done (~?80), otherwise the ride quality will be poo and your tyres will wear unevenly.
So total cost of the job is at least ?165 on top of the cost of the suspension kit, but budget for ?200 in case you need to replace spring caps and/or front bump stops.
For the wheel alignment (or preferably the entire job), I can highly recommend AMD in Bicester. They are professional, fairly priced and really know their VWs.
http://www.auto-amd.com
With everything all put back together and adjusted properly, the car handles like a dream. OK, the Koni kit would probably be better, but it's a MASSIVE improvement on standard and looks good too.
Nick.
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Good info there! all strut top mounts are the same type on mk3s apart from the very early ones ie 93 or before. You're right in the only change is the spring top plate. When the job is done check the front wheel alignment and front wheel camber, anything else is NON-adjustable.
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You're right, Front Camber & Caster are the only adjustments that HAVE to be made on fitting lowered suspension, but it is worth getting the rear alignment checked out at the same time, as any pre-existing problems here can cause tyre/arch rubbing with lowered suspension and wide wheels.
Nick.
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I think you mean front camber and wheel alignment, castor is also non-adjustable. There is no point doing rear wheel alignment as its a front wheel drive car, there is no toe-in ,toe-out on the rear.
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Castor is set at the factory and the only way your gonna throw it out is by fitting top mkounts that have the mounting to far front or back or by damaging the suspension.
The rear is also set and never needs adjustment, in the rare cases where it needs to be done you need to remove the stub axle and fit a shim plate behind that you cut segments out of to achieve the desired setting.
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Must admit the Eibach springs are good quality, but they do seem to give a firm ride with adjustable shocks set to soft.
You find yourself bobing up and down over bumps. But this is what you get with any sort of sport suspension on a road car with the poor road surfaces these days. You can also expect to eat front tires even more quickly given the increased speed you end up doing round the corners.
I have been told in the past that there are not that many spring manufactures and that several makes are made at the same plants. How true this is I dont know.
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Hi all,
I'm pretty new to the forum but i'm looking into suspension kits for my 97 mk3 diamond black 16v.
I've recently bought a set of 16" split rims off an anniversary and i'm unsure of which kit to go for.
Ones i'm looking at/probably going to get are Koni RSK or SSK or eibach/koni combination.
Don't want to drop too much (40mm tops), just lose a bit of the gap.
Has anyone got any experience of RSK kit, TSR are doing a good deal on them at the moment.
Any comments would be muchos appreciated...
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Hi Stomper, i've just fitted an SSk kit and i'm happy with it. Its not super low, but makes the car look better - i have to share with the missis, so it was a good compromise.
Handling is like night and day, but i found out that 3 of the 4 dampers on my car were shot.
I wrote up a guide on how to fit it too. Click on the link in my sig.
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Greg,
Thanks for the reply, don't suppose you've got any pic of the car after you'd fitted it?
Also whats the best place to get this kit from, i.e. price?
Have you got the dampers set at the soft or firm end or in the middle?
Cheers
Stomper
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I do have some pics at home, i'll post em later/tomorrow. I took before and after shots, so you can see the difference. The rear is perfect, the front could perhaps go down another 10mm. Carl on here has the same kit too with some 10mm caps on the front, you might wanna enquire about thems...
The best price i could get after looking around was awesome who did it for £290+vat so about £350 delivered. i have no affiliation etc. and they shipped it same day.
I set the rears to about 30% firm as mk3's start loosing grip and bouncing when too hard at the back (when you're going quick, that is). Looking back though, i'd set them to 50% if i were you.
I started with the fronts at 50% firm, but the missis complained (we share the car), so its back to 0% firm for now, which gives a smooth ride for commuting. 50% was flatter on corners and gave more feel, but did occasionally get a little bouncy on bad surfaces. I havent managed to get to my tracking bloke yet as he's away at a hillclimb. So all this should improve soon =)
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Excellent, thanks very much for the info, look forward to seeing the before/after photos.
I've seen an RSK kit on ebay, haven't read any reviews of these kits, good or bad, chappy at TSR recommended them though.
Read your web page on your car, looks virtually identical to mine! I'm getting some anniversary splitties at the weekend, looking forward to getting those and the suspension kit on.
Did you find cleaning out the throttle body helped at all in terms of the way it ran/revved?
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Gonna clean my throttle body too, just because i like a tinker :laugh:
Spoke to this bloke on the weekend and after mentioning lowering my car he said Id have to have my brake bias checked as the car distributes more braking power to the rear when it is loaded (heaver) and lowering will trick it into thinking that it has more weight. Is this an issue on the Mk3 golfs???!
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Stomper - if you can afford the RSK kit, i'd get it. Koni make great products. Plus you'll be able to drop it a lot more. You will probably want to have your rear bushes done too, its something i have planned soon. I think thats about £150 ish to have someone do it - apparently its a b@stard to DIY.
Cleaning the tb didn't make much difference if any, but its nice to know its clean, and it only took about 2 mins. I may take the pipe off too and clean the inside of that up. I popped in a pipercross filter too (again not much difference), & changed the plugs (now starts a fraction quicker). I think the prev owner hardly used the rev range, as the engine seems to be loosening up a little the more i drive it.
GLC GTI - No idea about the bias being tricked. I'd be surprised if my modest 40mm drop would have upset it. But i'll ask a mate of mine...
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Do you mean if i can afford the SSK get it??! I've seen it on larkspeed delivered for £357 might just save up, would be a more adjustable setup.
Had the rear bushes done at 75k along with a full service after i'd bought the car, made a huge improvement, was crashing and banging all over the place before!
Mine was a genuine one lady owner from new car, right on my doorstep, almost too good to be true but it's a minter. Air-con aswell which is a bonus. Same as you it seems to be loosening up nicely now, don't think its seen any abuse.
It's got a cat-back powerflow exhaust bought by first owner (additional middle silencer) which makes it nice and fruity but not too noisy on motorway, i stuck a pipercross panel filter in aswell. Was thinking about getting some anniversary smoked front fog/indicator/tow-eye units and a VR6 front lip spoiler at some point.
Was going to ask you about the clutch on yours, is it a really high biting point? Been told that they are naturally like this due to the self-adjust but it almost feels like its on its way out, doesn't slip really though.
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No i meant if you can afford the more expensive RSK kit, go for that. I have the Koni Sport Kit
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/gernsteine/Mk3%20golf/mk3blog/suspkitbox.jpg)
which should be called the KSK, but i thought it was referred to as the SSK. Although surely that name should be for the Sport Spring Kit ?! :huh:
how much did the rear bushes cost or did you do them yourself? I think i'm looking at £100 plus parts. Did you get poly or std bushes?
Interesting what you say about the clutch, i thought exactly the same as you - mine has a high biting point too. Glad that people say they're supposed to be like that.
Sounds like you found a diamond!
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A few pics...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/gernsteine/Mk3%20golf/gregs16v_koni_fq.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/gernsteine/Mk3%20golf/gregs16v_koni_f.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/gernsteine/Mk3%20golf/gregs16v_with_konis.jpg)
and before
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/gernsteine/Mk3%20golf/gregs16v_rear_q.jpg)
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I'm a bit confused  :undecided:
Kits i've seen are:
- Koni sport adjustable kit (on car adjustable dampers, around £290) this is what you got.
- RSK (Off car adjustable dampers, standard to 30% firmer, around £270) cheaper alternative but good quality and fine for road use.
- SSK (On car adjustable dampers, 25% + firmer, around £350) I thought SSK and koni sport were one and the same??
I can't find any write ups at all about the RSK, as i say i've seen a brand new set on ebay for the 16v, if i can get them cheap i'll probably go with them, TSR rated them pretty highly. Don't want to spend the earth on them, just want a decent ride, sharp handling but not shaking your fillings out!!
Thanks for the photo's, looks slick!
Rear bushes cost me about £150 fully fitted, it's a pig of a job so i've heard and you don;t want to be messing around with something as important as the rear suspension!! Standard bushes are fine.
Sounds like the gearbox is a common problem.
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I'm a bit confused :undecided:
Kits i've seen are:
- Koni sport adjustable kit (on car adjustable dampers, around £290) this is what you got.
- RSK (Off car adjustable dampers, standard to 30% firmer, around £270) cheaper alternative but good quality and fine for road use.
- SSK (On car adjustable dampers, 25% + firmer, around £350) I thought SSK and koni sport were one and the same??
I can't find any write ups at all about the RSK, as i say i've seen a brand new set on ebay for the 16v, if i can get them cheap i'll probably go with them, TSR rated them pretty highly. Don't want to spend the earth on them, just want a decent ride, sharp handling but not shaking your fillings out!!
I thought the RSK was the ride-height adjustable koni coilover option?!?
Have a look here for some info and pics...
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/vw%20golfmk3/suspension.html
Thanks for the photo's, looks slick!
cheers :smiley:
Rear bushes cost me about £150 fully fitted, it's a pig of a job so i've heard and you don;t want to be messing around with something as important as the rear suspension!! Standard bushes are fine.
There's not much to mess up on the rear suspension really, its a fairly old fashioned torsion beam trailing arm setup. But yes i've heard the rear bushes are a knightmare job. Think you need a hydrolic press t get the new ones in and that means taking the rear axle off.
Sounds like the gearbox is a common problem.
if all 16v clutches are like that, surely its normal :laugh:
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The Ride height adjustable kit (Coilovers) are more still, £530.
I'm not going to bother with coilovers, i don't want to go too low as i often carry people in the back and the boot, don;t want any grounding out probs.
I'm undecided between the RSK (cheaper) SSK (Bit more)
I'm going to keep my standard wheels aswell i think, they go for peanuts second hand and they've got very Pirelli P6000's on wiht loads of tread, probably stick them back on in winter months, don;t want my shiny new BBS wheels getting corroded!
Any mods planned on yours?
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Well on the SSK kit i have the rears are only adjustable off the car, the fronts are top adjustable. I think the same kit for the corrado has top adjustable rears. The Cheaper kit is probably not adjustable at all ?
For £290 the SSK kit is great value. It handles really well now. The only thing is i'd have liked a fraction more drop at the front.
I'm gonna keep the std wheels too, they also have P6000's on em. I don't want the car to stand out, its a shared runabout and i don't plan on spending much on it...If anything i'd consider taking the head off and tweaking it in the future. But time will tell... i spose i might remap it if it would gain me more torque lower down the range...
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just to confuse you all... my valver clutch is biting right at the bottom of the pedal...
... although apparently that's bad :rolleyes:
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Dom Mk3 - :cry: I've only read about high clutch biting points!
Greg - Yeah think you're right about adjustment off the car. If only Money wasn't a problem!
Was thinking along lines of remap/head work aswell, would be nice to free up a few more horses....
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well the good thing about a high biting point - it doesn't give you the gear change problems I have!
Maybe we need a poll for mk3 16v owners - where does yours bite ;)
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Well volunteered matey....
I'll reply!
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Does a high biting point on a hydrolic clutch mean its on its way out then?
I thought it usually did mean that...
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Does a high biting point on a hydrolic clutch mean its on its way out then?
I thought it usually did mean that...
it did on my cable clutch on the last mk3!
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It feels like it's on the way out, doesn't really slip, only occasionally.
I'd love it to bite in the middle-top like most cars!
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i'd say biting point is at about 80% of the upward travel on mine. No slippage whatsoever...so far
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That probably means there is not much 'meat' left on the clutch friction disc.
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There sure are a lot of black valvers on here!
It is a damn good colour though, especially in the metallic.
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There sure are a lot of black valvers on here!
It is a damn good colour though, especially in the metallic.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a362/paulfenrich/DSC05479.jpg)
:smiley:
My clutch is has quite a high bite, a lot higher then my last car (not vag so un-important haha)
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Was thinking about getting a badgeless grille, look pretty good.
What suspension setup have you got GLC?
I'm pondering what to get as you may have seen on the post.
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I got FK ak coilovers fitted my my bro and myself on good friday, and sh!t in a bag its a difference! Quite a harsh ride but thats the price you pay, doesn't help living in rural Wales where the roads are funked :sad: