GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: DRC on 08 April 2011, 17:49
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Guys,
Some of you may know the amount of problems I've had with my Golf since I stupidly purchased it from a car supermarket.
In the 7 weeks of ownership it's had, new auxiliary belt, new fuel pump, new fuel filter, new drivers wiper arm, numerous ECU updates and now just had a new dual mass flywheel, and the clutch is still juddering. Also had to buy new front brake pads.
I was hoping to sort it out amicably with garage but they say
'because it's under manufactures warranty you can't reject it'
Spoken to my solicitor who says I'm well within my right to reject it. So I've just sent 2 formal letters off regarding the Sale of Goods act and Consumer Credit act to both the garage and my finance company who don't seem to want to know either but both are equally liable.
Just a royal pain in the ass to be honest. Moving house soon so could really do without this, but the longer I leave, the less chance I have. I've given them both 14 days to exchange my car for something of similar spec and mileage, so that leaves a 2007 Golf GTI or 2007 Seat Leon Cupra. I wanted a diesel to cut fuel bills, but the way its going with the economy at the minute, and the mileage I do, it's pointless. I can get insured on both the above cars.
The Leon Cupra is £1000 less then what I paid, so I expect something back in compensation, if nothings done in the 14 days, I'm going for a full refund at a small claims court. Once this is sorted, I'll be having no further dealings with the garage in question, nor the finance company, the sooner it's paid off the better!
Rant over.
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I'm very sorry to read your hellish experience , what a nightmare
I rejected an Audi A3 over shocks would you believe. To cut a long story short Audi wanted me to pay for new shocks after three month even though it was known as a common fault.
Like you I sent my letter off rejecting the car. Audi then said they would fix the car.
You have to accept this if the supermarket offer to fix the car. Only if the car is fixed to the way it should be do you accept the car.
You have to be careful the garage does not play for time as you can only reject a car in it's first 6 month.
I take VW wont do anything as the car is an import. Is that correct.
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Dan:
What I have gathered from your previous posts is that you have been more than reasonable and extremely patient.
You are doing the right thing IMO and I hope the whole matter is resolved speedly and to your satisfaction.
All the best.
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park it in front of their front door and leave it there until they fix it :smiley: hth
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Sorry to hear about this.
My opinion?
Get the GTI or Cupra.
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Thanks for the positive feedback guys :)
Yes, more then patient with it to be honest, I've had enough of taking unpaid time off work, fueling courtesy cars etc.
the car isn't an import, and VW have fixed the issues but the clutch judder is still on going.
It's a great car, but I don't see why I should have to put up with the issues.
The salesman said this morning on the first call,
'Oh, pop it back to us and we'll revalue it and give you a good price against one of the other cars'
I said, if you take a faulty TV back to Currys, you don't expect them to turn around and say, 'we'll give you £200 for your faulty one and you pay the difference?'
I actually laughed when he suggested it, like it was the norm?!?
Golf Ti, I will be taking the Cupra no doubt, never ever had a problem with my first Leon FR that I owned for nearly 2 years, and to be frank, wish I never got rid of :( and I'll make sure they don't hang about for the 6 months, if my requests are not met in the next 14 days, I'll be taking them to court for a full refund or a like for like replacement of my car I originally traded in.
I'm glad I havent spent that much money on it to be honest.
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So sorry you've been having all this bother, it must be a Monday or a Friday built car, or an ex-hire car :grin:. Seriously tho the mk6 in my opinion is a cracking little car, a few niggles like rattles here and there but nothing major has so far been reported - you have been really unlucky.
Keep pressurising them and hopefully they'll back down and give you the result you want.
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Dan dont let up on them. I had to reject my GT TSi after 5 months of engine misfires. They tried replacing just about everything but it still misfired. After several letters quoting the sales of goods act etc and a bit of pressure from my lawyers they finally ordered me a new car. :smiley:
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now just had a new dual mass flywheel, and the clutch is still juddering.
This wasn't something similar to this was it? Clutch pedal pulsating/vibrating (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=180522.0)
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No Keith, as in a full on judder when pulling away. I've lived with the vibrations from previous cars
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Letters were sent off Friday.
But I've also been enquiring about a few GTI's,
Seen a black 5 Door, 2006, 29k miles, Bi-Xenons, Leather, Sunroof etc. Just needs a Sat Nav :P
And also a fairly basic grey GTI with Sat Nav from a VW main dealer but with 43k miles, so we shall see what happens.
Also found out my car isn't on HP or PCP, it's an unsecured loan against me, so in theory, I own all rights to the car :) so they say..... didn't tell me this when I bought it, found out myself on the loan agreement.
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Good Luck Dan
Do you not fancy another Mk VI and mod it as you were planning with this one?
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Had two letters back,
One from the garage saying that, due to the problems being fixed under warranty at no cost to me I can't reject the car?
The other from the finance company saying they're looking into the matter.
But I've been making a few enquiries about new cars and I've provisionally swapped my car for a 2008 Seat Leon Cupra :) its done 39k miles, in metallic silver but its a bit of a distance from me, so going to look on Friday :)
Thanks for everyone's help
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Hope you get the car sorted. As your Solicitor would have told you, the Small Claims Court has a limit of £5K. Anything above will have to be dealt with by the County Court.
All this is covered by The Sales of Goods Act 1979, and the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1994.
The car would be covered by the "of unsatisfactory quality" clause.
Here's some more info for you...enjoy.
You have to invoke the Sale of Goods Act 1979 Part II Section 14, as modified by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, subsequently modified by the Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994, contending that the supplier is in breach of contract to you for supplying a car which was not "of satisfactory quality", or did not remain so for a reasonable period of time.
Appeal Court Case law (Bernstein v Palmerston Motors 1987) has held that the supplier must be given three chances to rectify the fault for which the goods are rejected and must have failed to do so. The goods must be returned to the supplier together with all keys and paperwork. (Scott and Scott v Blade Motor Company 1997.) And the supplier (in the case of a car the dealer principal of the dealership) must be sent a letter by recorded delivery detailing why the car has been rejected as not "of satisfactory quality".
Case law (Rogers v Parrish 1987) has put a limit of 6 months on the time you can successfully reject a car and obtain a full refund, though lesser refunds, taking account of mileage covered, may be obtained outside that period. The price you pay compared to market value will be taken into account. So if you buy a cheap car on trade terms you cannot reject it under the Act. And if you buy a cheap car (under £2,000) on retail terms from a trader, you cannot reasonably expect it to be perfect.
The Supreme Court verdict in Clegg v Olle Anderson (trading as Nordic Marine) 11-3-2003 has caused some confusion which some believe to have overruled Bernstein v Palmerston Motors 1987. In this case a yacht was supplied with an overweight keel in breach of its specification which formed part of the original contract. It was held that Clegg could reject the yacht at more than 6 months from date of purchase even though Mr Anderson had offered to make modifications to try to correct the fault. Basically, because the yacht had originally been supplied "of unsatisfactory quality" and this was admitted, Mr Clegg retained the right to reject it. For Clegg v Olle Anderson to apply to other cases, it must be proven that the fault existed on the date of sale and constituted a breach of the original purchase contract. Clegg v Olle Anderson cannot apply where a fault develops at some time after purchase. In those cases, Bernstein v Palmerston Motors 1987 still applies and the dealer has to be given three clear chances to rectify the problem.
The Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002, is derived from EU Directive 1999/44/EU which became Clauses 48A to 48F inclusive of the Sale of Goods act in April 2003. This reverses the burden of proof so that if goods go faulty within six months after purchase it is deemed they were faulty at the time of purchase and the trader has the onus of proving that the item is not defective due to a manufacturing defect.
The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPRs) contains a general prohibition against unfair commercial practices and, in particular prohibitions against misleading actions, misleading omissions and aggressive commercial practices. The Regulations are enforceable through the civil and criminal courts.
www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/buying-selling/sale-supply/sale-of-good-act/page8600.html , www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023045.htm and http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk
This creates an offence of misleading omissions which would not previously have been an offence if the consumer had not asked the right questions. So if a salesman knows a car has, for example, been badly damaged and repaired and does not tell the customer, he could later be held liable if the customer subsequently discovered that the car had been damaged and repaired. As far as I know this has yet to be tested in court and there are no case precedents. As soon as there are and I am made aware I will include them
during the first six months:
The consumer returns the goods in the first six months from the date of sale and requests a repair or replacement or a partial refund. In that case, the consumer does not have to prove the goods were faulty at the time of sale. It is assumed that they were. If the retailer does not agree, it is for the retailer to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale. This comes from Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002, derived from EU Directive 1999/44/EU which became Clauses 48A to 48F inclusive of the Sale of Goods act in April 2003
after the first six months:
Under sale of goods legislation (Sale of Goods Act 1979, Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994) consumers are entitled to expect that any goods they buy are of satisfactory quality. That is, that the goods meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory taking into account the way they are described, their price, and any other relevant circumstances, such as the fact that they are second-hand or used. ... ..
If a product that was not of satisfactory quality at the time of the sale is returned to the retailer, the buyer is entitled to a full refund (if it is within a reasonable time of the sale), or, if a “reasonable time “ has elapsed, to a reasonable amount of compensation, or to have the goods repaired. The consumer needs to demonstrate the goods were not of satisfactory quality at the time of sale. This is so if the consumer chooses to request an immediate refund or compensation. It is also the case for any product returned more than six months after the date of sale.
If the amount is less than £5,000 and qualifies for the Small Claims Court then any decision made does not become case law.
However, if it goes to the County Court, then a decision does become case law. County Court rulings can be overruled by Appeal Court rulings which then become case law. And cases will be argued on the facts. So though the Sale and Supply of Goods Act may appear to give you rights, your true rights are governed by case law and asserting them can be very expensive.
Jonathan.
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Of course you can reject it. What a pile of sh.. they are talking about!
They have sold you a faulty product and it's their responsibility to rectify the problem. The 3 repair attempts are not always required by law - it's a good reference point though. If a vehicle you've been sold was a 1.6 instead of a 1.8 you wouldn't wait for 3 repairs - you would demand refund or replacement.
However if they do indeed genuinely repair it, you would have a real struggle rejecting the car. You could probably claim for inconvenience or stress but to reject it after it’s been repaired (at no cost to you) would be difficult. Unless of course they can’t fix it and there’s problems piling up one after another. “A reasonable time†should be given them to fix the problems.
It takes time and will be stressful but rest assured you are fully within your rights, you are right and you will get it sorted in the end.
Good luck
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The 3 repair attempts are not always required by law - it's a good reference point though. If a vehicle you've been sold was a 1.6 instead of a 1.8 you wouldn't wait for 3 repairs - you would demand refund or replacement.
No. The 3 repair attempts at repairing THE SAME FAULT, is law.
Your second point is to do with goods not being as described, which is different.
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All was well today, went to test drive the Cupra I'm swapping for, thought to myself, 240bhp suits my perfectly :)
Everything all set up perfectly, rang my finance company who after telling me TWICE previously that they'll remove the HIP marker, they not WON'T.
I'm p*ssed to say the least. I ask why, he kept contradicting himself saying he can't remove it but they have no financial interest in the car?? So why put one on?? After a quick Google it seems they do it to keep 'tabs' on the car and for repossession etc.
I have a FIXED SUM LOAN AGREEMENT and from what I can tell, they have no right to put a marker on the car. So once again, down another legal battle route.
I own all rights to the car, they've previously told me they'll do it. This time they're not getting away with it.
Deal is sweet for the Cupra, has tax until 01/01/12 so I said I didn't want new tax, so he came back and said, 'Oh, Mr Chapman, we'll give you £200 back then into your account' I was shocked, a car garage giving money back?!?!
So, hopefully this will get sorted, anyone else had any problems similar?
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It will work out ok. I hated dealing with Finance Companies when I was young.
Now, in my dotage, I pay cash for nearly everything and always negotiate a bloody good discount. Cash is King.
What's the Insurance on a 240 bhp car? You're a power junkie. Still, when one is young the ooomph is very handy! :grin:
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Insurance is just under 1100 :) that's with admiral.
Made me laugh, she said it'll be 39 pounds to swap until my renewal in May and then I asked how much for the next year and said they couldnt quote me?!
I turned round and said elephant will insure me :) she soon turned round and matched the price :p
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Insurance is just under 1100 :) that's with admiral.
Made me laugh, she said it'll be 39 pounds to swap until my renewal in May and then I asked how much for the next year and said they couldnt quote me?!
I turned round and said elephant will insure me :) she soon turned round and matched the price :p
Excellent!
Elephant buy their insurance from Admiral. I also played one against the other and got a super quote from Admiral! Now insured with the latter. :smiley:
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Admiral, Elephant and Bell are basically the same group but don't like loosing to their other company, Its fun playing one off another :evil:
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Yes, very much so Snoops :)
Been with Admiral for a year now, been a great company, never complained at me always changing my car and are by far the most competitive out there!
Looking through my finance docs tonight and no where does it mention Hire Purchase or that they'd put a marker on the car, I don't think they really have much to stand on? A few instances on the old Google have shown Black Horse to be the worst for it, people have kicked up a stink with them and they've removed it within 48 hours?? Just wish they'd let me change!
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As for a garage and giving you money back on the tax disc, I'm sure there is new legislation out that prohibits garages from cashing in customers tax discs. I know when I traded in my last car that is what the salesman told me. Or something to that effect.
Am1w: I would have thought you would get more discount using credit as they have a lot more to play with as they won't make as much with a cash sale?
Maybe Evo would be able to tell us.
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^as you say lots of profit in finance not much in a cash sale.
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As for a garage and giving you money back on the tax disc, I'm sure there is new legislation out that prohibits garages from cashing in customers tax discs. I know when I traded in my last car that is what the salesman told me. Or something to that effect.
That's my experience. Salesman gave me tax disc as the only person who can claim a refund is the registered keeper
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Creation say they'll send a fax over to the new garage expressing they have no interest in the car and can be sold on, but the hpi flag will still be there?? So confusing now, if they don't care about it why won't they remove it! I don't even care if it goes on my new car!!
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Creation say they'll send a fax over to the new garage expressing they have no interest in the car and can be sold on, but the hpi flag will still be there?? So confusing now, if they don't care about it why won't they remove it! I don't even care if it goes on my new car!!
If you don't remove the marker I doubt the garage will take it in P/X. It suggests there's outstanding finance on the car which will be flagged up in any HPI check.
Nick
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Bloody stupid tbh :/
Legally they don't have a reason to do it, it's unsecured against me, not the car? Could understand if it was the other way.
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Found this :)
Personal Loans or MOtorloans are not HP and the Finance company have no rights to the vehicle at all. They starting doing these because of the huge amounts of people using VTs to hand cars back to them.
They dont like you to sell the car without settling but they have NO choice in letting you. If they will not remove there intrest then write to them recorded delivery and if still no luck try TS as your rights to the free title of the vehicle are being affected by the finance company.
You can if necessary issue county court proceedings to force them to remove the intrest and also claim costs and maybe a little loss os title value if they been holding out for a while.
If the car is on finance and you sell it to someone who buys it in good faith then they still retain good title due to the Hire Purchase regulation 1964 as amended (legalized theft if you ask me) but you will still have to pay for it.
You must however get the interest removed as insurance companies etc will payout to the finance co first and then ask questions, they shouldnt and you would have a case against them for recovery if you can show good title. Hope this helps but it is very complicated and i would need more details to help in an individual case
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Dan
~Sounds like a phonecall quoting the above with a letter, recorded delivery, to follow which will outline your determination to take them to county court for settlement if you do not receive confirmation that their interest in the vehicle is fully removed within 10 working days.
:cool:
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Going to get the exact details from Consumer Direct and the FSA on Tuesday mate, will be sorted :)
they're aren't getting away with this, I've pretty much had it with this finance company!
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Got all my contact details ready for tomorrow, Consumer Direct, FSA, Office of Fair Trading, Financial Ombudsman, Information Commissioner's Office etc etc.
Stating all the relevant laws, Data Protection Act 1998, Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations, Consumer Credit Association 1974 etc :)
Armed and Dangerous.....
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Good luck mate! :wink:
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Best of luck Dan.
What a waste of your energy and time. Most unfortunate.
Hope it all works out. I know with your talent, it surely will. :smiley:
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Thanks Gents ;)
Will of course update you with the outcome, not holding out much hope though!!
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Dan
Have faith and confidence! Good luck.
PS just ask them on what legal basis do they believe that they are able to conduct themselves in such a manner and to fully substantiate themselves.
Ask lots of questions and don't allow them to turn them around.
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Case closed :)
After her constantly telling me they have no financial interest and the the HP flag would NOT be removed, I started quoting the Data Protection Act and that they had used my data without prior consent as it wasn't in the agreement. I also stated I would be proceeding to take a Court Order out for them to remove the marker as there was no legal statue for them to relate too.
She kindly said, 'The HP marker will be removed within 72 hours and I'll send a fax to the garage stating this'
She also questioned my ability to keep up with them payments, I said 'At 20 years of age, I'm not going to default on a payment, making it harder for me to secure credit in the future'
A long a drawn out battle.....knew I should have trained to be a lawyer :P Thanks for the help gentlemen! Very kind :)
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Great news :smiley:
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Jobs a good un! :wink:
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So pleased for you Dan. All the best with the next purchase. :wink:
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What garage out of interest?
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Good work Dan.
Keep the updates coming.
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Garage I'm getting the cupra from is northampton Volkswagen, should be collecting Friday now :) of course pictures will be up :)
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Well guys, took my mats and my HIDs out tonight, to be honest, I'll miss the old girl. Not had many memories but I bloody refined car, it was actually nice to have a car that doesn't rattle!
But, nothing will take away the excitement I have for picking this Cupra up tomorrow :D
For the first time, the Cupra makes me like my finance payments are actually worth it, and that it's going towards one hell of a machine. Pictures will be up although she may be covered in flies :(
I'll leave you guys to think up a name for her :)
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Oh, forgot to mention, HIDs will be up for sale, if anyone wants them get in touch, all bits and pieces are they to go straight on your Golf or Scirocco :)
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Picked up the car today, suffice to say.....I love it! :)
MPG is averaging 33.2 at the minute, and with 200 miles completed today with 120 til empty still showing and that wasn't a full tank, not too bad for 240bhp monster :)
Love the power, all the way through the rev range :) Also gave her a wash, I'll try and get photos up tomorrow :) nice to have proper Bi-Xenons again :D With cornering function :)
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Picked up the car today, suffice to say.....I love it! :)
MPG is averaging 33.2 at the minute, and with 200 miles completed today with 120 til empty still showing and that wasn't a full tank, not too bad for 240bhp monster :)
Love the power, all the way through the rev range :) Also gave her a wash, I'll try and get photos up tomorrow :) nice to have proper Bi-Xenons again :D With cornering function :)
Stop rubbing it in. Now don't crash it, please. :grin:
Oh, congratulations. :wink:
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Haha Asker, it's funny, as soon as I put my foot down in second, my girl said, 'This is the first car we're gonna crash in'
Filled me with confidence haha :P
But thank you anyway ;)
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Great stuff mate! Glad your a happy bunny and your perserverance (sp) paid off! :cool: Get them pics up!
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Glad you are happy with the new car. :smiley: :cool:
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Congrats on the new purchase. Post some pics please :cool:
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(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/dannyisace/IMAG0182.jpg)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/dannyisace/IMAG0181.jpg)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/dannyisace/IMAG0183.jpg)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj130/dannyisace/IMAG0184.jpg)
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Congratulations. Loverly. :smiley:
Mad-modding about to take place again? :grin:
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Looks good mate, glad you got everything sorted outin the end.
Nice looking car from the outside, shame the SEAT interiors are so bad as the Current Cupra R is a real bargain.
Jim
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Nom nom! I'm not a massive fan of seat except for the high end ones. Thats luurvly
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Asker.....oh yes :P mods have already taken place :P haha
Yeah, the interior is abit drab and dreary but never mind :) I thought my Golf was in good nick, not one mark on this one other then the alloys are a little kerbed, had new brake disks and pads, cam belt done in February this year, proper bargain for a little over £10k :)
Thanks Jimble :P to be honest, ever since I owned my first Seat I said to myself, one day I'm gonna have a Cupra, and seen as I'm 21 this year....early birthday present :P haha
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Good on ya mate! I said the same about a GTI and there's nothing like getting what you want most!
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Nice one Dan, I love Luna paintwork, it has a lovely blueish tint in sunlight :drool:
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Well done, nice choice and a great car. Me thinks the seatcupra forum has a new member :smiley: :wink:
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Dan's already on there Martin.
He's only been driving a couple of years and has already had more SEATs than I have I reckon!!!
& I'm on my 5th I think :smiley:
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Nice.
Proper motor car. :cool:
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Nice Dan. Nice.
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Thank you gentleman :) yes 6th seat now :p
Mk1 Leon, mk5 ibiza, mk2 Leon fr, mk5 ibiza cupra, mk2 Leon fr facelift and now this one :p haha what can I say! I love 'em but this by far is the best I've owned, can't get enough of that right pedal :p and those brakes! Haha
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As nice as it is I think the MK1 Leon is still the better looking of the two :smiley: The MK2 looks too frumpy :undecided:
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Its why i bought the golf over the leon. As i really like our mk1 leons but the mk2 just did not do it for me and had too many blind spots for my liking. But still a great car.
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Not doing it for me I'm afraid, looks like an old mans car. Sorry
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Not doing it for me I'm afraid, looks like an old mans car. Sorry
Gizzy.....not nice.
He's just got rid of the old mans car.....
DRC - I think it's a class motor and way, way better than trying to make the mk6 diesel look like something it's not.
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Not doing it for me I'm afraid, looks like an old mans car. Sorry
Gizzy.....not nice.He's just got rid of the old mans car.....
DRC - I think it's a class motor and way, way better than trying to make the mk6 diesel look like something it's not.
True though, I really am not a lover of Seat cars IMO they're fugly, am I not allowed to put my opinion down for fear of hurting someones feelings. f**k that, if someone told me they hate my Golf that's fine with me cos I love it and that is all that matters really. So DRC sorry if I offend you but I'm sure you're a big lad who can take it.
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Gizzy , are you in a bad mood?
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Gizzy , are you in a bad mood?
Yeah, f**king Chelsea, cheating, diving low life wayne kerrs.
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Haha nope it's fine :) I realise it's not to everyones liking, some will like the new 19" wheels are offering on MY12 cars, personally I hate them. But yeah, so much more of a car then the one it's replaced :)
Subtle mods to this one I think, tbh I'm not a massive fan of the back of it, feels all Leons need the rear BTCC spoiler and sideskirts which will come in due course after I get over the shock of 26mpg average :( haha
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Gizzy , are you in a bad mood?
Yeah, f**king Chelsea, cheating, diving low life wayne kerrs.
Arsenal will get it tomorow and come 3rd :grin:
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There is nothing like a Tornado Red Mk6 iconic Golf GTI with 18" Monza Shadows.
It is da best of the best. :drool: :smug: :tongue:
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Gizzy , are you in a bad mood?
Yeah, f**king Chelsea, cheating, diving low life wayne kerrs.
Arsenal will get it tomorow and come 3rd :grin:
About time we had some Fergie luck..... Come on Arsenal tomorrow (the mighty tippy toers). + please injure a few for the big game next week. Carefree!
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after I get over the shock of 26mpg average :( haha
Welcome to the wonderful world of the EA113 K04 engine :grin:
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Looks nice DRC, I haven't seen many in that colour, very understated which is the way I like them :cool:
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Thanks guys :) yeah, big old turbo :D haha I've never seen a cupra where I live in this colour, I got abit sick of black or white :p haha
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It's baby blue for a baby man. :laugh:
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LOL thanks Asker :p I'll have you know I'm a real man!! And its silver not blue!! :p
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Oddly we do sort of like this FR
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27975.0.html
:undecided:
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The new FR+'s sound promising with a good standard spec. Unfortunately the price has gone up on them too!