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Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Golf mk4 TDI => Topic started by: asif on 10 November 2010, 16:10
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Right so for the past year of owning the car after my brother i've been getting poor MPG for ages, I only seem to get 400 to 430 miles to the tank which i've always been vex about.
So decided to take some action myself and try finding out what could be causing my 400 mile tanks as it was motorway journeys included which should really be better than 400 miles to the tank. I very wrongly self diagnosed my car to have a fooked MAF as the signs seemed correct but that wasn't the case as it made no difference at all.
So in July I had my regular service and a check over which showed that the pipe at the front end at the bottom waqs loose and coming undone so may have been a boost leak, also got the fuel filter changed and maybe not a good idea coming to think of it now but I got it mapped.
Car ran great for one tank only, I got like 530 miles to the tank mixed motorway but more inner city than motorway so was really pleased thinking i'd got everything sorted.
How wrong was I when straight after that tank I was back to exactly square one, 400 miles to the tank again mixed city and motorway more city than motorway.
Was advised on my service that the exhaust looked weak near the cat but didn't look like it was blowing, but a month later the cat give up the ghost and completly comes away making the car sound really nice kinda like a scooby :grin: £155 new cat fitted.
Got car checked out and seemed as though the intercooler was leaking so got that replaced, I then got a boost leak at the top of the intercooler pipe connector the day afetr fitting the intercooler, it gave up the ghost and was leaking big time almost all come off, so for a connector pipe fits in place and a nice tight fit too. Good thing was that the intercooler came with a brand new MAP so that was eliminated from the possible problem also. Mechanic was top as he even offered to work Sunday for me to get the boost leak sorted but managed to get there for the Sat instead.
So there's me thinking this must be it, there can't be anything else wrong as i've changed a fair bit of stuff on the car and it should run sweet now.
Jeez one motorway journey and inner city driving, now i'm on 40mpg motorway and 31-33mpg max around city.
I've really given up on this car, it's really doing my head in and has totally drained me financially, chomped away at my wheels/mods fund and now my wage aswell.
I'm proper wounded and can't think of what else it could possible be.
Good job Guy Forks night is gone otherwise I would've blooming torched the fooker I was that angry. What is it with this bloody car.
Oh the beauty of this fooking machine is that it has never once shown a fault code ever even when i had a huge boost leak for a few days. Fooking doing my nut in.
What else could it be?
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I've never got more than 450miles from a tank in my pd150 lol i have owned my car for over 4 years
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So I assume you still haven't looked at the injectors as per this thread?
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=170785.0
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Yeah but that must be giving it some most of the time right?
Also the isn't the 150 a bit more thirsty?
Most 130 owners I know and speak to on various forums get 500 to 550 as a doodle really easily, a few have stated that a full motorway run tank would give them as much as 600 miles to the tank.
I've driven a whole tank on motorway driving eco like a fag and still got a max of 430 :(
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Hi agreeable apologies mate, forgot to add that I had a data logging session and all looked well and the logging on the injectors and general feuling was apparently ok on the logging.
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Stupid question but have you changed the air filter? Changed mine on my PD TDI Polo and it went from 45mpg to 62,pg.
Nick
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Yeah but that must be giving it some most of the time right?
Also the isn't the 150 a bit more thirsty?
Most 130 owners I know and speak to on various forums get 500 to 550 as a doodle really easily, a few have stated that a full motorway run tank would give them as much as 600 miles to the tank.
I've driven a whole tank on motorway driving eco like a fag and still got a max of 430 :(
I drove to Scotland and only got 450 to tank although i may have broken the speed limit :lipsrsealed: i never run mine ntil the light comes on though so would possible get 500 if i did
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Stupid question but have you changed the air filter? Changed mine on my PD TDI Polo and it went from 45mpg to 62,pg.
Nick
Yeah on service everything was changed, oil, oil filter, air filter, cabin filter even the fuel filter as I had MPG problems.
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Yeah but that must be giving it some most of the time right?
Also the isn't the 150 a bit more thirsty?
Most 130 owners I know and speak to on various forums get 500 to 550 as a doodle really easily, a few have stated that a full motorway run tank would give them as much as 600 miles to the tank.
I've driven a whole tank on motorway driving eco like a fag and still got a max of 430 :(
I drove to Scotland and only got 450 to tank although i may have broken the speed limit :lipsrsealed: i never run mine ntil the light comes on though so would possible get 500 if i did
Mine is 400 into the warning light :( alwasy been this poor, don;t even drive carzy and don't rev all the way up or anything like that, I drive eco and change gear at the right revs dependant on curcumstances usually at 2200 to 2700 revs or there abouts and stay in higher gears to keep revs down.
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Has the timing belt ever been changed? timing could be slightly out, but i would expect performance to suffer.
All diesels seem to suffer from clogged up EGR valves, worth a look?
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Might be temp sender related. Seems silly, but they can affect mpg. Might be worth chucking a new one of them in? £30 ish.
EGR wouldn't really effect it, as it's an emissions addition. Will drop mpg by a few points, but not by this much.
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Timing might well be worth a look. I set mine at around 70 on VAGCOM and I can usually get at least 500 miles on a tank full.
Best was just over 600 but when I did that it was just running to and from work (M3 & M25) and all the roadworks were going on so 50mph most of the way!
Be interesting to know what your timing is set at :undecided:
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Timing might well be worth a look. I set mine at around 70 on VAGCOM and I can usually get at least 500 miles on a tank full.
Best was just over 600 but when I did that it was just running to and from work (M3 & M25) and all the roadworks were going on so 50mph most of the way!
Be interesting to know what your timing is set at :undecided:
Should have mentioned........that's a 1999 110BHP, AHF engine.
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Has the timing belt ever been changed? timing could be slightly out, but i would expect performance to suffer.
All diesels seem to suffer from clogged up EGR valves, worth a look?
Timing belt has been changed at about 57k now on 80k, performance isn;t too bad but does feel a bit slower on pick up after the intercooler which I was surprised as I thought it'd spool up the turbo much faster?
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Might be temp sender related. Seems silly, but they can affect mpg. Might be worth chucking a new one of them in? £30 ish.
EGR wouldn't really effect it, as it's an emissions addition. Will drop mpg by a few points, but not by this much.
EGR has been mapped out and when the mech checked he said it's not bad as he's seen in the past so won't be the EGR
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Might be temp sender related. Seems silly, but they can affect mpg. Might be worth chucking a new one of them in? £30 ish.
EGR wouldn't really effect it, as it's an emissions addition. Will drop mpg by a few points, but not by this much.
I read that EGR valves can cause quite significant running problems. It can affect the air flow readings, or so the article said.
I can't really say for sure, as i'm not really into diesels.
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Has the timing belt ever been changed? timing could be slightly out, but i would expect performance to suffer.
All diesels seem to suffer from clogged up EGR valves, worth a look?
Timing belt has been changed at about 57k now on 80k, performance isn;t too bad but does feel a bit slower on pick up after the intercooler which I was surprised as I thought it'd spool up the turbo much faster?
Maybe worth re-checking the timing?
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Timing might well be worth a look. I set mine at around 70 on VAGCOM and I can usually get at least 500 miles on a tank full.
Best was just over 600 but when I did that it was just running to and from work (M3 & M25) and all the roadworks were going on so 50mph most of the way!
Be interesting to know what your timing is set at :undecided:
Not sure about the timing, are there any other symptoms if the timing was out?
When I start the car from coldfirst thing in the morning it sort of hesitates a bit for about 20 30 seconds like it aint got enough revs and chucks out a cloud of smoke not coloured just like white kinda exhaust smoke as normal then stops straight away.
It's the hesitation that gets me worried kinda like the car can't breathe kinda thing (best way I could explain it :grin: )
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Has the timing belt ever been changed? timing could be slightly out, but i would expect performance to suffer.
All diesels seem to suffer from clogged up EGR valves, worth a look?
Timing belt has been changed at about 57k now on 80k, performance isn;t too bad but does feel a bit slower on pick up after the intercooler which I was surprised as I thought it'd spool up the turbo much faster?
Maybe worth re-checking the timing?
EGR is mapped out so not in use and the mech said the EG isn't that dirty anyway so hopefully not restricted at all.
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I mapped out my EGR too, one of the first jobs I did after cleaning out the intake!
Have you easy access to VAGCOM, it's a very quick and easy check to see where your timing is :wink:
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My mech has Vagcom and that is what was used to do the logging, not entirely sure what exactly was logged/checked.
Timing could be well worth a check so will put it to him to see what he reckons.
At the minute I deffo feel like selling the car for sure, i've put it on the Civic Type-R forum to see if anyone wants to swap for my derv.
I'm just thinking if my economy is out the window and has been for a while then I may aswell get something that goes as much as the fuel does if you get what I mean.
Car seems sluggish now on pick up and sometimes feels like the turbo doesn;t want to fully kick in, kinda like limp mode but then the turbo will kick in late.
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I mapped out my EGR too, one of the first jobs I did after cleaning out the intake!
Have you easy access to VAGCOM, it's a very quick and easy check to see where your timing is :wink:
asif has a PD engine Rich, so that doesn't apply. imo the maf has gone kaboom!
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Ah! Ok, yes you can't use it with the PD engine. Cheers Chris.
I think I read that the MAF has already been replaced.
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Aye, I saw that the MAF had been replaced. At least that's what I thought it was safe to assume?
Hence my comment about the temp sensor. Would be worth getting a new one plumbed in anyhow.
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Yeah the MAF was replaced approx 8-9 months ago.
What would bugger the MAF so quick? the previous MAF was in the car since atleast 30k for sure may have been the one from factory. So what would make my MAF go so quick in such a short space of time?
It was a brand new Bosch one aswell, don't really have the pennies anymore to just chuck one in for good measure to see if it sorts my problem out. Cuz like the intercooler i'd be in tears if I spend more money on parts and the car runs the same or worse.
I'd be fooking suicidal soon :grin:
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I was talking about the temp sensor not the MAF. Sensor is usually around £10 ish.
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Ah! Ok, yes you can't use it with the PD engine. Cheers Chris.
I think I read that the MAF has already been replaced.
Actually, just thinking about that, can you not still check it with VAGCOM? OK the graphs won't work but if you go into 01-Engine, Meas. Blocks-08 and select group 000 won't field #2 show you the fuel timing? Just curious :undecided:
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In my experience the MAF should be good for 70K.
You can probably check that temp sensor in VAGCOM too, but as Slick says, for £10ish probably worth trying anyway.
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For £10 I suppose it aint too bad.
Nothing has ever showed up on Vagcom for my car ever which does my nut in, cuz i'd love it if Vagcom could say this is where your problem is, just it and you'll be sorted :grin:
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This post may help your VAGCOM man find info on the temp sensor and what it's up to:-
http://65.110.12.166/showthread.php?t=26762 (http://65.110.12.166/showthread.php?t=26762)
Group 7 could be useful :wink:
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The vagcom man is Toph and he must know everything about Vagcom already, he deffo knows his shizzle.
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believe me this car has been thoroughly spanked with the vagcom stick :grin: all it ever showed was some missing boost, cured the leaks... then the maf popped up with some abnormal readings but not enough to trigger a dtc. Trying to scrounge a maf from somewhere for you asif :afro:
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Just because its a new(ish) MAF doesn't mean it works
Lots of people have had faulty MAF's straight out of the box
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Cheers Toph as always mate your a star :afro:
Some weird stuff been happening with the car for the past 2 days, on my drive to work the MPG has increased almost back to where I started, which is kinda good news that i don;t have to put up with figures like 31 to 33 mpg at most, it is now just under 40mpg which is still a less than where i started befor the work but at the mintue i'm just glad it's not 31-33mpg, so what feels like a slitght improvement is really almost back to where I started on badish MPG.
Maybe it was something like the MAP sensor adjusting to it's new surroundings or something :grin: It has been about 200ish miles since the intercooler went in with the new MAP sensor.
What else could it be?
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Just because its a new(ish) MAF doesn't mean it works
Lots of people have had faulty MAF's straight out of the box
Really? that's bad news.
It was a spanker from GSF went for the Bosch one thinking it's be the best option but it made no difference what so ever at the time. Which led me to kinda believe the old one was ok and i've replaced it with another working one, or maybe faulty for faulty so it seems now.
You reckon my sysptoms are MAF related? Well I suppose the readings on the MAF were high as Toph stated.
Is there a way to find out if a replacement MAF is good to use or not?
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Just because its a new(ish) MAF doesn't mean it works
Lots of people have had faulty MAF's straight out of the box
Really? that's bad news.
It was a spanker from GSF went for the Bosch one thinking it's be the best option but it made no difference what so ever at the time. Which led me to kinda believe the old one was ok and i've replaced it with another working one, or maybe faulty for faulty so it seems now.
You reckon my sysptoms are MAF related? Well I suppose the readings on the MAF were high as Toph stated.
Is there a way to find out if a replacement MAF is good to use or not?
Yep. Dai-Cymru bought one from VW when he had his turbo. After months of chasing problems the new owner found it had been the MAF which had been faulty from day one :angry:
Get it on and get it logged. As Toph has said to me its pulling silly high figures when idling!! I dug out an old log of mine and your figures are twice that of mine when idling!
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Cool cheers for that Rhyso that's great help, fingers crossed :afro:
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Just because its a new(ish) MAF doesn't mean it works
Lots of people have had faulty MAF's straight out of the box
Is there a way to find out if a replacement MAF is good to use or not?
Yes there is a test you can carry out using VAGCOM that I'm sure Chris is already aware of, something along the lines of this:-
Go into Engine measuring block 003
Start Logging data
In a high gear (4th/5th), give full throttle from 2500 rpm up to 3500rpm.
Find and Open the Log file in Windows Explorer
Graph MAF actual -vs- rpm in Excel
The MAF is OK if the actual value is at least 850-900 mg/h at 3000 rpm.
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Fook me you guys sure got some good knowledge on these cars.
Cheers again to all that have given there input/advice it's really much appreciated as i'm really at the end of my tether (SP) with this car and the sh*te mpg it gives me.
You guys are all a brilliant advert for this forum :afro:
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Let us know if it cures the problem or not.
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Will do :afro:
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Thought the MPG improved a tiny bit but I was wrong after monitoring it for the past few days, it's still kinda 32 to 35mpg or a tiny touch over if i'm lucky.
I called GSF yesterday as I thought if my MAF that I bought from them under a year ago is buggered then maybe it's covered, so called and they advised they could send it off for testing which is ok cuz seems like it's deffo fooked by logging done by Toph but only problem is in the mean time i'd be MAF less:( so in a bit of a tricky situation.
This sh*tty heap of metal is proper cheesing me off :( why can't it just run right and give me good miles.
I filled up today done 30 miles and the first section on the fuel guage os already gone, that bit normally goes well after 60 miles atleast :( feeling like just flogging the bloody thing
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Just to tie you over, you could request one from 24/7spares.co.uk?
Submit a request for a part, and the various breakers/dealers on there will email you with quotes for a replacement. Postage is usually pretty prompt once you agree on a price, and could get you out of the problem whilst yours is off being tested?
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Might try them, i'm just really worried that like my intercooler i'll swap it and i'll still have the problem knowing my luck :(
I changed the intercooler and my problems got worse and the car kinda drives like sh*te which is beyond me, as the intercooler is brand new, along with the MAP sensor.
It's beyond me as to why i'm in a worse situation once i've changed old parts for brand new parts? Can anyone explain why this may have caused me so much problems for changing to a brand new intercooler? As I was told by my mech that the intercooler was leaking so I had a boost leak which was causing me most of my MPG issues but now it's fixed the car is the worst it's ever been.
Even if the MAF was fooked before the new intercooler, then why the hell would my car get the worst it's ever been after changing the intercooler.
It's like for example; your spark plugs were fooked causing you running problems then you go change a tyre for a brand new one and suddenly straight after your car runs even worse? I just don't understand the boody car and my problems they make no sense what so ever. I'm sure you guys can understand why i'm so dubious about spending more money and getting the MAF changed for a new one cuz I may end up in a worse situation knowing my luck.
I'll check out that 24/7 parts thanks for the idea, much appreciated.
Can anyone shed any light on this problem i'm having as it's beyond me what's happened in the past year and £400+
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Bit surprised about the intercooler diagnosis.......thought they were quiet reliable and, if they do fail, usually fail in an obvious way :undecided:
If Chris has done the tests on the MAF and it has failed then there is your answer and you shouldn't have to wait for their own tests......if necessary bluff it and tell them you have already had it tested by Chris, VW, whoever and it is definitely at fault, demand a replacement under the 'sales of goods act'.
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fixing one problem will often highlight another, it's down to the way these ecus handle running issues.. compensating here and there. the maf didn't show any signs of issues until after the ic was fixed, which is why i want to have another look at the car before replacing it.
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Only reason I can think of that the car would now be running worse economy wise is that since the boost leak has been fixed the ecu must think that it is now running super lean, so dumping more fuel in to compensate.
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Cheers lads and cheers Toph, i'll drop you a PM so you can have a look at it.
GSF seem quite firm about having to test it before they'd replace it :(
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Right visited Toph again to try a working MAP on the car as before he replaced it it was reading high on idle, it was reading at 500 whatever it is for the MAF which was way too high on idle, so tried the working one and the same issue high reading of 500.
So not got a clue what's causing such high readings on the MAF
So for now, we've removed the map so the car is de-mapped and back to factory monitor to see what difference it makes if any.
Also the car's idle speed has been set to the correct amount from VAGCOM.
Gonna monitor the MPG for the next week and take it from there, the MPG seems a tiny bit better on the drive back but that maybe because I reset the onboard comp thingy when I was there and it is a fairly eco drive back anyway.
So will keep you guys posted on how the car behaves now.
Not got a clue what is casuing the MPG toph said it may be and electrical fault or worst case scenario the ECU which at the minute doesn't look likely but never say never and all that.
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So since removing the MAP the MPG is still as poor as ever :cry:
Yesterday was driving on the motorway and bang hit limp mode 3 times, all 3 times I pulled over and switiched the car off and back on again and all is ok until I give it some it hit limp straight away :cry: in the end I just limped my arrse back home, inner city no limp cuz I didn't give it some once I got back as it'll just pee me off :cry: