GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => The garage => Topic started by: Philpy on 08 November 2010, 09:03
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What will this mean for ramapped cars?
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What will this mean for ramapped cars?
What are the proposed changes? :huh:
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Copied from another site:
From VOSA''
The car/light goods vehicle MOT test is about to change – the European Commission has changed the Directive that covers it. We take a look at when these changes are likely to come into effect and what they mean for MOT testers.
Britain has been testing vehicles under the MOT scheme for 50 years now. Last year, the European Directive covering the MOT test was updated and revised by a modern version called 2009/40/ EC. This was then updated by 2010/48/EU, which was ratified on 5 July this year.
The new Directive keeps the EU minimum 4-2-2 test frequency but adds a number of new elements to the British MOT test. The Directive anticipates all test changes being in place by 1 January 2012, and a common European approach to test certificates in place by 1 January 2014. So what is VOSA doing to introduce the changes?
In terms of test frequency, in mid-July the coalition government confirmed that it intends ‘to look at the issue of MOT test frequencies later this year’. VOSA contributed statistical data to inform the last review in 2008, and we expect that our computer system and the data you have entered will be utilised again in much the same way.
We expect to hear more details of the government’s review proposals later in the year.
As far as changes to the test content are concerned, VOSA has already been analysing the requirements of the new Directive and working out how to implement them. We started this earlier in the year by talking with representatives of the MOT trade at our regular Trade User Group and VTS Council meetings. Both VOSA and the Department for Transport (DfT) are keen to ensure that any changes to the test are introduced in as practical a way as possible, keeping the burden on the trade to a minimum and ideally keeping the changes cost neutral.
In many cases, the changes shouldn’t necessarily lead to an increase in average test times. A good example is the malfunction indicator lamps on the dashboard that indicate defective electronic power steering, electronic stability control and secondary restraint systems. Testers already check the dashboard for other lamps, so no extra time would be required for this addition to the test.
Electrical wiring and batteries are now included in the test’s scope, but testers already check the vehicle structure where wiring is secured – often along the same routes as other testable items, such as brake pipes in the engine compartment. So again, this doesn’t look like an additional burden on the tester. In the pre-computerisation days, testers often (wrongly) failed vehicles for insecure batteries, so they must have been looking at them then! Now, it means that when we implement the new Directive, vehicles can legitimately fail for battery insecurity, for no extra tester effort.
Other items – such as headlamp bulb and unit incompatibility, headlamp levelling devices and illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need further thought before we can get a workable solution for MOT stations.
Some of the new items may require extra effort on the part of the tester – when we know for sure what that is we’ll be talking again with our trade and DfT colleagues to work out what the impact will be.
The common EU test certificate should be relatively easy to achieve – the only data that the Directive expects and that we don’t currently provide is the symbol for the vehicle’s country of origin. Probably 99% of vehicles tested will have
‘UK’ entered here, but if you do test vehicles with a foreign plate, you will need to enter the correct country symbol. We may even be able to make this change earlier if there is a convenient opportunity.
The MOT trade can rest assured that VOSA is working closely with you to introduce any new elements as efficiently and effectively as possible, with the minimum of fuss. Just as importantly, we are also working closely with Siemens to ensure that any system changes due on New Year’s Eve 2011 go smoothly! We should know more by the time the MOT seminars take place – come along and ask the experts.
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Not sure on the chipping issue but at least this will hopefully kill off all the dim wits adding HID's to car's which aren't designed to run them.
Nick
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What is classed as "illegal engine chipping" though?
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What is classed as "illegal engine chipping" though?
I suspect anything that changes the map on the standard ECU as this is deviating from what passed type approval.
That's a guess though so we'll have to wait and see what falls out of the consultation process with VOSA nd the MOT testers groups.
Nick
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what new equipment are they proposing to use to detect a re-map, surely the main problem they could detect of a bad re-map would be emissions a good re-map would probably reduce emissions, they are thinking of having mots done on a 2 yearly basis this is stupid as repmobiles can rack up huge mileages in 2 years with the state of our roads imagine the wear and tear on suspension items in 2 years
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Looks like bluefin and such systems are going to make a killing off this news, as everyone will need an instantly switchable map. :undecided:
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Looks like bluefin and such systems are going to make a killing off this news, as everyone will need an instantly switchable map. :undecided:
Could be that everyone will need to go this route as a supplier.
Not sure where peeps like me stand who have standalone or piggy back management. Although I expect cars pre 2001 will be exempt.
Nick
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Strange how they use the term chipping?
The yanks have had this for a few years now, they check all the rediness setting in the ecu via the obd port.
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Its good that checking bulb compatibility with the units is going to start, there are far too many people running HID's without making any other modifications.
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Sorry I thought Id put a link up :laugh:
http://wrecks2riches.co.uk/2010/10/2011-changes-to-mot/
Will this affect people who have had there cars remapped by the likes of R-Tech?
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Note to Nick
2nd company: Rtech MOT services ltd and jobs a good one!? :grin:
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http://wrecks2riches.co.uk/2010/10/2011-changes-to-mot/
Interesting, about time they sorted HID's out, not sure on the ecu / chipping, wiring harness is very strange why on earth do they want to check that.
HID lights – Specifically those aftermarket kits that give the very bright headlight beams. Any cars found with these kits will be an automatic MOT failure. Testers are able to easily spot the difference between HID kits, and manufacturer fitted Xenon’s. Easy to spot as Xenon cars have suspension level sensors, in car beam adjuster, and usually headlight washers.
Chipped ECU’s - Unsure of just how/if this one will realistically be enforced, but any cars with chipped ECU’s will in theory be an MOT failure. I can only assume VOSA have found an easy way of checking ECU software through the cars OBD port (diagnostic plug).
Wiring harness – The general condition of he wiring harness will be checked to make sure there is no rubbing or chaffing, and that the harnesses are in generally good condition. If unsecure, or damaged again MOT failure.
Airbag warning lights - If any warning lights are illuminated, it will again be an MOT failure.
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Note to Nick
2nd company: Rtech MOT services ltd and jobs a good one!? :grin:
Already got that company..lol just waiting for my old man to hand the company to me.
Nick
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How can a remap make the car not worthy of passing an MOT? It's just extra performace. So long as emissions pass, what could the issue be? What's the difference between mapping a 150bhp and having a 180bhp that's essentially the same but with a different map to have that extra power in the first place? Something doesn't seem right.
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So remap off.. Then m.o.t... Then map back on :laugh:
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i'll keep an ear out as I work in a motor factors with our own garage/MOT test station...
any news and i'll post here :nerd:
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This (ECU mods failure) seems more than unfeasable. I dont understand the proposed reasons behind thefailure?
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This (ECU mods failure) seems more than unfeasable. I dont understand the proposed reasons behind thefailure?
How does it effect safety other than the temptation to boot it.
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Before there were ECU's controlling inition, timing, boost if turbo, there were carbs right???!! Take a old austin mini 1275cc. take to tuners.... bigger bore/ 1293/1340/1380/ single 40 carb or twins.... surely that would be still worse on emmisions and no where as efficient as a injection car thats ecu controlled/modded via the obd port!? I guess if this goes ahead then as mentioned before. Go to tuner before mot. back to standard..... mot and back up to the modded map!! :evil:
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bluefin :smiley:
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Only just read through this and as someone who is in the motor industry i am intrested to see what will be going to change. I over heard as well that they are clamping down on exhausts too? someone told me that they will fail a car on its mot if the exhaust is louder then the standard one :shocked:, think this was wrong though as there will be a lot of people failing mot's. Also what about the people out there who have there cars mapped to run under the standard performance to try and save fuel and boost their mpg, what will happen to these guys, surely if this is the way forward they will be failing mot's.
By the sound of it the guys doing remaps will either be making loads from taking maps off and putting them back on or this will put people off from having a remap in the first place meaning the remappers will be losing money?
Will be watching this space.
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Do people remap there cars to have less poke for extra MPG?
I have been educated by this forum that the extra poke means the car has to work less hard which in turn gives better MPG, is this not right?
I don;t see why a remap should fail an MOT just as long as the insurance company is aware that you got more poke which in turn could make you a possibly higher risk driver with the temptation to use the extra poke you never had before the map.
MOT's are gonna get strange, alot of fannying about before going for your test then wack it all back on that is all that will happen, like the HIDS, it won't stop the numpties that have HIDS without having a projection ball to focus the light.
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Do people remap there cars to have less poke for extra MPG?
I have been educated by this forum that the extra poke means the car has to work less hard which in turn gives better MPG, is this not right?
I don;t see why a remap should fail an MOT just as long as the insurance company is aware that you got more poke which in turn could make you a possibly higher risk driver with the temptation to use the extra poke you never had before the map.
MOT's are gonna get strange, alot of fannying about before going for your test then wack it all back on that is all that will happen, like the HIDS, it won't stop the numpties that have HIDS without having a projection ball to focus the light.
some remap out there are very poor, some compromise emission control for performace under cruise or part throttle conditions, there only should be fuel changes when under load, there should be a body to govern remap and what calibrations should be kept the same,
You can also look at it this way, a stock AUQ 180bhp remap with flash direct to an AUM 150bph ecu, you could class this as a remap? but the AUQ mapping has far better emission controls.
There is NO way an MOT tester could see if an ecu is mapped, the only way to find out is to have a copy of every stock factory map checksum, then read the ecu and compare the checksumms. The easy way around this is change ecu login codes, inplant no read tags, and/or run remove the ecus runtime checksumm and leave the stock checksum in place.
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Do people remap there cars to have less poke for extra MPG?
I have been educated by this forum that the extra poke means the car has to work less hard which in turn gives better MPG, is this not right?
I don;t see why a remap should fail an MOT just as long as the insurance company is aware that you got more poke which in turn could make you a possibly higher risk driver with the temptation to use the extra poke you never had before the map.
MOT's are gonna get strange, alot of fannying about before going for your test then wack it all back on that is all that will happen, like the HIDS, it won't stop the numpties that have HIDS without having a projection ball to focus the light.
sounds like you got that one covered then :grin:
some remap out there are very poor, some compromise emission control for performace under cruise or part throttle conditions, there only should be fuel changes when under load, there should be a body to govern remap and what calibrations should be kept the same,
You can also look at it this way, a stock AUQ 180bhp remap with flash direct to an AUM 150bph ecu, you could class this as a remap? but the AUQ mapping has far better emission controls.
There is NO way an MOT tester could see if an ecu is mapped, the only way to find out is to have a copy of every stock factory map checksum, then read the ecu and compare the checksumms. The easy way around this is change ecu login codes, inplant no read tags, and/or run remove the ecus runtime checksumm and leave the stock checksum in place.
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Would it be possible to put a switch in somewhere hidden that restricts assess to the ecu. So it can't be checked or throws up a false map.
I suppose there is always "looseing" the plug inside the dash :tongue:
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Would it be possible to put a switch in somewhere hidden that restricts assess to the ecu. So it can't be checked or throws up a false map.
I suppose there is always "looseing" the plug inside the dash :tongue:
yes and it's very simple to do, however i believe the intention is that if the ecu can't be accessed they will assume it's locked out and you'll fail the mot.
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Can hardly see this being enforced ... it is impractical - just another idea that the tofs at the top devised over a round of fox hunting.
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Would it be possible to put a switch in somewhere hidden that restricts assess to the ecu. So it can't be checked or throws up a false map.
I suppose there is always "looseing" the plug inside the dash :tongue:
yes and it's very simple to do, however i believe the intention is that if the ecu can't be accessed they will assume it's locked out and you'll fail the mot.
So all tricore ecus will fail the MOT in 3 years time?
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Can hardly see this being enforced ... it is impractical - just another idea that the tofs at the top devised over a round of fox hunting.
It cannot not be enforced full stop on current ecus, the only way they can do it is implant a brand new EOBD2 protocol on cars 2011> which the MOT tested can ID part of the ecus data which will be the software version and final checksumm, the tested will have a database to cross ref with and if the checksumm dont match then its a sign that there car is not running EU approved software code = epic fail x. but if they can crack RSA keys I am sure there are hackers that could produce a patch to get around this.
The yanks use the current rediness which can be seen on vagcom, if one of the rediness setting fail then the wont pass the car, but a good tuner can patch the ecu to change the rediness setting to get a pass.
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I have just read through this as I am considering a remap after Christmas, but I too see that this will be nigh on impossible to enforce. If it is how are small garages going to afford the equipment, more business disappearing, tuners are either going to make a killing or again disappear. It seems to me as always the honest of us will be penalised and financially hammered while the others that don't give a f**k will drive there un mot'd sheds around anyway regardless of what new regulations there are and as the government won't spend money on police who's ever going to catch them, but will waste it on pointless checks on the mot. It needs to be focused more on brakes, suspension, tyres and structural interegity as these are what affects everyone's safety. All the power in the world aint woth s**t if you cant stop or stay on the road.
Thankyou rant over.
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It needs to be focused more on brakes, suspension, tyres and structural interegity as these are what affects everyone's safety. All the power in the world aint woth s**t if you cant stop or stay on the road.
Thankyou rant over.
+1
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be interesting to see how many ecu mapping failures have occured to warrant such a thing! as slick says bluefin and revo will be selling alot of selector+ switches to change between maps but i didnt realise that mapping stopped you accessing the ecu :undecided:
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if they ban remapping undetectable rempas will appear quite quickly the market is worth to much $$$ to just disapear
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i have read somewhere but cant find it that engine conversions will be banned aswell aswell, was in performance bmw I think. (i know I feel dirty)
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i have read performance bmw . (i know I feel dirty)
GTFO :angry:
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i have read performance bmw . (i know I feel dirty)
GTFO :angry:
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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This is a load of bolllocks that wont ever see the light of day.
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This is a load of bolllocks that wont ever see the light of day.
++++++11111111 :grin: