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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Harooshum on 17 July 2010, 23:37

Title: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Harooshum on 17 July 2010, 23:37
Ok so i bought my ABF, looks ok, and before anyone asks yes i have been searching this forum.  The bloke went over a few pointers for me to note when doing the job.

Conflicting statements:  He has assured me the original KR inlet manifold, fuel system, ECU, loom will be fine for me to put this ABF lump in.  Only things to take of the KR and put onto the ABF are the crank pulley, and a round thing on the right side (gearbox side) where a brown-colored plug will plug into, and also that i dont need modified engine mounts - KR ones are fine BUT the exhaust manifold will be higher and pull the downpipe too high and might touch the bulkhead at the bottom.  He said there is a way to extend this to reach properly and avoid an expensive new manifold.

Can I confirm this with you guys as my research is giving me mixed responses.  Original car is an oak green 16v 1990.

Much appreciated guys.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 17 July 2010, 23:42
Only a complete kn0b would fit an ABF with k-Jet mechanical injection.

An ABF comes with electronic management, which should stay on it to provide protection and reliable running.

Your vendor appears to have suggested fitting an ABF with KR mechanical injection (or 'fuel misting' as it should really be referred to as)

Ergo your vendor was a kn0b.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Harooshum on 18 July 2010, 00:12
B0ll0cks! Don't tell me that, coz I don't have it! Now where am i gone find an ABF fuel system on a budget?

Thanks for your reply, what about the other things he's told me?
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: oakgreengolf on 18 July 2010, 08:00
When I did this job I bought the entire car much easier this way. You are going to need the ecu, wiring loom and transponder for the imobiliser. Being a 90 spec the wiring is plug and play so not a major job to fit either. As DH said the whole point of an abf is to run it on proper digi management so you don't have the anoying KR fueling issues.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Harooshum on 18 July 2010, 09:48
I am not very happy. I assumed it will be ok. Typing mk2 abf k-jet into YouTube brings up a few vids. I might just sell this abf an hunt down a 9a
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: tony_ack on 18 July 2010, 10:24
I am not very happy. I assumed it will be ok. Typing mk2 abf k-jet into YouTube brings up a few vids. I might just sell this abf an hunt down a 9a

You can still use the k-jet with an ABF, it's just as already mentioned it's not the best option. The k-jet is a pig to get running right a the best of times, and electronic management would make things so much easier.

I don't really see a lot of point of selling the ABF to get a 9a just so you can run it on k-jet - other than to give someone else a chance to run that ABF engine on Digi3.

Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: cняis on 18 July 2010, 13:09
I am not very happy. I assumed it will be ok. Typing mk2 abf k-jet into YouTube brings up a few vids. I might just sell this abf an hunt down a 9a

You can still use the k-jet with an ABF, it's just as already mentioned it's not the best option. The k-jet is a pig to get running right a the best of times, and electronic management would make things so much easier.

I don't really see a lot of point of selling the ABF to get a 9a just so you can run it on k-jet - other than to give someone else a chance to run that ABF engine on Digi3.



this guys wants an ABF lump

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=160856.0
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Wayne on 18 July 2010, 15:03
I am not very happy. I assumed it will be ok. Typing mk2 abf k-jet into YouTube brings up a few vids. I might just sell this abf an hunt down a 9a

You can still use the k-jet with an ABF, it's just as already mentioned it's not the best option. The k-jet is a pig to get running right a the best of times, and electronic management would make things so much easier.

I don't really see a lot of point of selling the ABF to get a 9a just so you can run it on k-jet - other than to give someone else a chance to run that ABF engine on Digi3.



+1 k jet will work but it is not the best option.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 19 July 2010, 10:14
see, this is what happens if you shout the same crap over and over again, people start to believe you  :rolleyes:

Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Harooshum on 19 July 2010, 13:27
see, this is what happens if you shout the same crap over and over again, people start to believe you  :rolleyes:



what do u mean?

Hi lads I have been thinking about this hard, and I even spoke to TSR for advice, it would appear that apart from setting up the k-jet to work on ABF (to my suprise on the internet there are many guides and how-to's) and setting it uip initially, it would actually be ok as I dont think I can get and properly install ABF electronic management within my budget.  TSR also say that when they do this SAME conversion they keep the k-jet intact.

I hear about the k-jet needing re-tuning after time - but isnt that ok live with?

When I get started on this project I will put up pics etc (maybe start a thread in the projects section).  Can I confirm that with regards to servicing etc everything is the same as KR like coolant, oil, gaskets, belts?  I am compiling a list of parts such as inlet & exhaust gaskets, timing belt (maybe different as taller block?) etc...

Can anyone name me a good engineering company because I want to have the flywheel lightened and balanced.

Thanks so much again for your input, again.  h.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Simeon on 19 July 2010, 13:41
Running it on K-jet will be fine. Cheapest way to lighten balance a flywheel is through 'hotgolf' on clubgti forum I believe.

Dunno where you're based, but a guy in Leeds called John Langdale is very good at setting up K-jet :)
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 19 July 2010, 14:01
Running it on K-jet will be fine.

Unless you actually rev it, because K-jet tends to lean out at the top of the rev range and adding another 200cc of capacity will antagonise that.

Look for NigeP's Golf Project on CGTI.

See his honeycomb pistons.  Feel his pain.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: fishnchipsx2 on 19 July 2010, 14:32
What gearbox are you using?  I'm using an 020 on mine with 210mm mk1 diesel flywheel, which according to my bathroom scales (I know, not the most accurate equipment) weighs just under 5kg - which is already a LOT lighter than an 02A flywheel, which is apparently 9.5kg.  :cool:

I doubt there's much difference between pressure plate+clutch assembly weights, which is why I haven't bothered lightening.  Would still be nice tho...

K-Jet ABFs are such a common conversion because it works, and if you already have K-Jet in your mk2, it's easy.  WUR mod is recommended. 

People like Digifant 3.x because it has nice things like knock control, and is supposedly low-maintenance compared to a rusty K-Jet system.

If I were in your situation, I'd bang it in on K-Jet, then get thinking about Megasquirt and ITBs (there's a-whole-nother topic for discussion!)
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Wayne on 19 July 2010, 15:23
DH is spot on, K jet tends to run lean at the top end.

Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 19 July 2010, 15:58
if you are too stupid to know how to set it up then yes, it will indeed run lean at the top end
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 19 July 2010, 23:37
Or if you have a duff batch of fuel.....

Or it's funny weather......

Or if the metering head gets clouted.....

Or if the dizzi moves......

Hell, why not just run a set of carbs and be done with it, eh?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Khare on 19 July 2010, 23:48
Swapping Digi for K-jet is a big step backwards. Why don't you want to run Digi?
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Wayne on 19 July 2010, 23:51
Swapping Digi for K-jet is a big step backwards. Why don't you want to run Digi?

Because he never got ecu / loom  :smiley:
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: danny_p on 20 July 2010, 00:34
think i'd prefer carbs to KJet on a toy.

just seen and heard of to meany ABF's that have been running on Kjet all die of the same cause and when you lift the head you see the same thing every time.    and the same pre fail symptoms over and over again.

driver will allways say that "it din't feel as keen as usual."  then the next line is,,,,   "i was comeing down the straight and it just went flat and then i saw blue smoke"

at that point you just know when you lift the head your going to see the top ring on the piston exposed.   to be fair to the motors they take it quite well and often it hasent actualy done to much damage to the bore and with  a quick hone and a new set of rings you can drop anther piston in and it'll go again.   as usual with vw I4 motors it's normaly number 3 that goes first

also the ABF is a bit more vunerable to death by k jet than the 9a or kr.

Kjet was desinged for the 1.8   but the ABF is 2.0   and as it pulls more air it needs more fuel.kjet lovers will say that bolloks because it can supply enough Fuel and the 9A is fine,  this is true but it is working on it's upper limutes.

the exact diffrences in CR between the 9A and ABF have been debated a lot but the genral outcome seems to be that the ABF has a slightly higher compression ratio so the engine will be slight more likely to suffer detonation than a simaler engine with a slightly lower cr running the same spark advance and AFR.

the ABF is a tall block,  meaning it has longer rods 159mm as oposed to 144mm this gives a better rod/stroke  meaning the piston experiances lower rates of accseloration and deceloration as it aproches TDC and BDC for any given RPM and less force thrusting it into the side of the bore.   this also means the pistons stays close for TDC for longer compared to an enigne with shorter rods giveing a larger time window for detonation to occur.

my theory is that this gives the 9A an advantage over the ABF when it comes to K jet.   that is that at a given load and spark advance you can run the 9A leaner before detonation occurs so your more likely to get away with it where and ABF is runnign closer to the line so a less developed gremlin in the fuel system can do quite a lot more damage

rigth there you go i botherd to type out my argument and why... discuss

Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: fishnchipsx2 on 20 July 2010, 01:54
Well if you wanna go into 9A vs ABF territory... 

(http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/43/wtf-dog.jpg)


A fairly recent CGTi thread got me thinking on the rod lengths of 9As and ABFs, so I knocked up a simulation in Matlab to produce these graphs:

In the first three, the blue lines represent a 144 rod and the red lines represent a 159 rod, both with a stroke of 92.8.

(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/disp.jpg)  (http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/velo.jpg)  (http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/acce.jpg)

The displacement is the vertical distance from the top of the rod to the centreline of the crank.  However, I have shifted the curve for the long-rod down the graph by the difference between the 2 rod lengths.  (Sorry if I'm being confusing, but I did it to focus on how long the piston takes to travel over TDC, rather than height of block.)

These next three graphs still have a stroke of 92.8, but rod lengths of 100 (blue) and 300 (red), just to exaggerate (massively) the differences in vertical motion of the piston.

(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/disp-exag.jpg)  (http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/velo-exag.jpg)  (http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/acce-exag.jpg)

So as Danny said, ABF pistons have slower accelerations, and spend more time at TDC.

(http://senorrivera.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/nerd3.jpg)
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: fishnchipsx2 on 20 July 2010, 02:09
...So given that 9As are less vulnerable to detonation... wouldn't it be nice to heavily skim one, running on standalone, for some nice high-compression action? (http://fc07.deviantart.com/images/i/2003/3/0/c/XC_-_Emoticon_-_Stroke_Chin.gif)
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 20 July 2010, 08:39
Or if you have a duff batch of fuel.....

Or it's funny weather......

Or if the metering head gets clouted.....

Or if the dizzi moves......

Hell, why not just run a set of carbs and be done with it, eh?  :rolleyes:

clutching at straws there aren't you

what if you fart whilst filling the fuel up and contaminate it? will that make it run lean as well?  :rolleyes:

its not for everyone, you do need an understanding of how to turn an allen key, sometimes you even need to turn said allen key ANTI clockwise  :shocked: its a tough skill

p.s. calling it a fuel misting system is actually a compliment    :wink:
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 20 July 2010, 13:17
I notice you're ignoring all the rest of the intelligent discussion, which is something you struggle to involve yourself in for obvious reasons.

And I fail to see how I'm clutching at straws - those are valid changing parameters that can cause the K-Jet system to knacker an engine.

The Digi3 system would protect the engine under these circumstances.  K-jet would not.  It would fail, as outlined previously.

Crawl back to your cave, luddite.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: emery1990 on 20 July 2010, 13:27
How much have you got too spend then?

K-jet is dog ( thats why im swapping mine!!) swap it to digi or ms if you've got the money.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 20 July 2010, 13:36
I notice you're ignoring all the rest of the intelligent discussion, which is something you struggle to involve yourself in for obvious reasons.

And I fail to see how I'm clutching at straws - those are valid changing parameters that can cause the K-Jet system to knacker an engine.

The Digi3 system would protect the engine under these circumstances.  K-jet would not.  It would fail, as outlined previously.

Crawl back to your cave, luddite.


i'm focusing on you because i object to your sh!tty attitude and it irritates me. kjet is a viable option and just because your too thick to know how it works you shouldn't spout your crap 24/7 on here. your viable options btw-

duff fuel - will affect any car (remember tescos fiasco?)

funny weather - i assume you mean hot weather, i had no problem at combe when it was 27degrees

metering head gets clouted - if you clout a number of engine components you will have issues idiot

dizzy moves - why would the dizzy move? or does this relate to your inability to use an allen key?

Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 20 July 2010, 14:00
Possibly the issue is that I know how K-jet works and how Digi3 works.

You don't have alot of knowledge outside K-jet, do you?

duff fuel - Digi pulls the timing back and protects the engine

funny weather - hot or cold.  K-jet has no way of protecting the engine again and will need adjusting summer vs winter.  A single example of you being OK is purely annecdotal evidence. 

metering head gets clouted - mechanical components are far more prone to fail than solid state items. K-jet is full of mechanical stuff that will go wrong and wear out before solid state electronic items.

dizzy moves - The dizzi has the capacity to move on a K-jet motor, so it can move through vibration/bolts not being done up tight enough - there are many options.  It does not on digi3, as the sparks are controlled electronically.  On some K-jet set ups there is a vacuum diaphragm (mechanical again).  If this fails the spark won't advance so the motor won't perform.

Here are the options I've come across that can lead an ABF on Digi3 to fail destructively:

An injector fails and a cylinder runs lean.

Obviously there will be other circumstances under which an ABF could fail, but none that I or others I know have experienced.  This is because of the protection afforded to the engine by the Digi3 system.

There are a number of other circumstances under which the motor can fail to run, but these are all non-destructive - as an example - failure of crank sensor - the engine stops running.

K-jet on the other hand - in 10 years I've seen quite a number of engines fail destructively for a variety of reasons, mostly mechanical failure caused by fueling problems.  Because there isn't in-built protection the unit continues in the destructive condition until it fails.

I suspect this sort of rational explanation and reasoning is just going to irritate you more.  Maybe you should try driving a Digi3 ABF?
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 20 July 2010, 14:12
yes i do actually, stop assuming things, it may even be more knowledge than someone as important as yourself has (though i doubt such a person exists in your head)

its not annecdotal evidence, its one example of many. just like the NigeP example is that you use so often.

the metering head getting hit and the dizzy moving are not reasons not to own kjet to anyone with common sense, and duff fuel is a very rare occurence, one that i have not experienced in 10 yrs of driving, so that can also be ignored. the settings can be tweaked like you say for hot and cold weather.

digi may be a better option but thats not the argument, kjet is a viable option so change the record
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 20 July 2010, 14:22
K-jet will run the car, but won't run it as well or as consistently or as protectively as Digi3.

It is a poor option.

If you like the poor option, you go for it, but when faced with the considerably superior alternative why would you promote the less reliable, more likely to fail option?  Digi3 isn't hard to get hooked up.  It's only a few wires.

Promoting the inferior alternative for some reason like 'wiring's a bit hard' would make you a luddite.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: fishnchipsx2 on 20 July 2010, 14:28
digi may be a better option..... kjet is a viable option

(http://lowdownvw.com/Smileys/citi/icon_hug.gif)
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 20 July 2010, 14:58
K-jet will run the car, but won't run it as well or as consistently or as protectively as Digi3.

It is a poor option.

If you like the poor option, you go for it, but when faced with the considerably superior alternative why would you promote the less reliable, more likely to fail option?  Digi3 isn't hard to get hooked up.  It's only a few wires.

Promoting the inferior alternative for some reason like 'wiring's a bit hard' would make you a luddite.

its a good job thats not my reasoning then, isn't it.

if you still think digi is vastly superior, after all that has been said then you are retarded, simple as that.

remember you didn't even need the help of kjet to blow one of your motors up, so i would argue the ability of the mechanic is more important than the injection system in keeping an engine alive
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: danny_p on 20 July 2010, 19:55
if you can call what happend to the crossflow blowing up then technicaly i blew it up.  but you have to rember that at the time it was in the prosses of been developed and we were poking it with quite big sticks and it poked back.

problem is the old k jet can be setup cock on by whoever the hell you want it can still get pissy as and when it chooses without much warning.

IMO digi3 is actualy cheeper than Kjet   
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 20 July 2010, 20:50
As well as empirically better.

This is why I was happy to put down the MS and install the ABF and Digi3 - someone else has done all of the dev work and digi3 has all of the key features all ready built in.  These are missing in base MS and the key bit missing at the time of the blow up was the knock sensing.  That's what caused the blow up and is the reason I won't be playing with MS again unless I have the full set of sensors to manage the motor properly.

Why am I retarded if I think Digi3 is better than K-Jet.  I'm all ears.

Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: emery1990 on 20 July 2010, 21:13
Dh, are you saying youd rather digi 3 your abf than put ms on it?

Or just saying youd only have ms if you had all the correct sensors?
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 20 July 2010, 21:23
MS offers a lot of scope to tune.

It offers a lot of scope to f**k up, unless you have closed loop control.

With the correct sensors I'd go MS, because I can do stuff like put ITBs on it etc and it'll just suck it up.

Until I've got those sensors and that control (from whatever box) I'll stick to Digi3.

Right now I'm a bit outta time to handle the development of my own management and maps - two kids etc.  I have every intention of enjoying the hell out of the ABF as it is..... and I want to make sure it lasts.  Digi3 is the best way of ensuring that.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: emery1990 on 20 July 2010, 21:29
Yer true, I was in two minds and still am whether to map the MS myself, just too much too take in and i want it at its best so may as well get it tuned professionally, id probably end up detuning it if i was playing around with it!

Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: fishnchipsx2 on 20 July 2010, 21:31
I personally haven't heard of any success stories of MS with knock control (yet)  :sad: .  However, I am fully prepared to sacrifice knock control for the roar of ITBs!  :grin:

I may have a play with KnockSense when the time comes
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 20 July 2010, 22:27
If I was doing it again I'd probably be running something like this:

http://www.syvecs.com/

Which would handle things properly.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: *tell* on 20 July 2010, 22:54
i allways want a mk2 abf and this is a interesting read.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: danny_p on 20 July 2010, 23:00
Knock control on MS is easaly inplimented the problem is filtering cleaning and amplifying the signal from the sensor.  i got basic bandpass filters working but they wernt really as good enough imo so decided to do it digitaly with pic's but deloping it got rather more expensive than i thought it would so doing it because i chould and for the hell of it  very quickly started to look like a stupid idea.   theer are very nice PIC based knock monitors on the market for around £200.

another very usefull thing to monitor during mapping is EGT   tho it is ion senseing FTW  only problem with ion sensing is  the amount of prossesing GRUNT the ecu needs
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 21 July 2010, 08:15
Why am I retarded if I think Digi3 is better than K-Jet.  I'm all ears.

well now you are also retarded for not being able to read as thats not what i said. kind of a common theme in our arguments.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 21 July 2010, 11:24
This is now getting more confusing.  I'm retarded because I can't read, according to your last post, which said:

well now you are also retarded for not being able to read as thats not what i said.

This is after you said:

if you still think digi is vastly superior, after all that has been said then you are retarded, simple as that.

From what I'm reading with my minute little brain, you're saying that if I think digi3 is vastly superior to K-Jet then I'm retarded.

The inference from that is that you think K-jet is better.  The two are clearly not level-pegged, as one tends to kill engines and block the intake with a big stupid flappy meter, while the other protects engines and doesn't restrict the intake (among other benefits). 

Unless you can explain why digi isn't vastly superior (which is the bit I'm waiting on here) then as normal, you're just making noise.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 21 July 2010, 12:42
Quote from: Diamond Hell
The inference from that is that you think K-jet is better

Veedubgti16v didn't say that k-jet is better, he said it is workable.
I think there is a difference there.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: emery1990 on 21 July 2010, 19:35
LOl yer that looks like the top dog in ecu! £2500 though, ill stick with my £350 ms :D
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 22 July 2010, 09:09
Quote from: Diamond Hell
The inference from that is that you think K-jet is better

Veedubgti16v didn't say that k-jet is better, he said it is workable.
I think there is a difference there.

see dh, others understand. its not your theory people have a problem with (generally), its your sh!tty attitude of 'i have fitted these bits, therefore every other solution is sh!t' when its simply not the case.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 22 July 2010, 13:03
Except with K-jet, when it is.  :kiss:
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Harooshum on 23 July 2010, 19:14
Ok lads nice read! So if I can't find a digi abf system I will continue to use kjet anyway and if can anyone give me an estimate on how long it will last before it does cock up? I just feel it's a daunting task of changing this to digi, but after some research I will crack it anyway.

So as for the list of things to get before starting, belt is abf-spec (taller block) and everything else like inlet/exhaust manifold gaskets, oil, oil filter, water pump etc is the same as mk2 kr-spec. Is that right?
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Wayne on 23 July 2010, 19:36
Ok lads nice read! So if I can't find a digi abf system I will continue to use kjet anyway and if can anyone give me an estimate on how long it will last before it does cock up? I just feel it's a daunting task of changing this to digi, but after some research I will crack it anyway.

So as for the list of things to get before starting, belt is abf-spec (taller block) and everything else like inlet/exhaust manifold gaskets, oil, oil filter, water pump etc is the same as mk2 kr-spec. Is that right?

Better with the ABF inlet as I believe it is bigger.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Harooshum on 23 July 2010, 20:42
I only got the bare abf engine. Absolutely everything else will come from the old kr!! I have also heard of people preferring the kr head on an abf bottom end. So am i right about the parts?
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Wayne on 23 July 2010, 20:56
I only got the bare abf engine. Absolutely everything else will come from the old kr!! I have also heard of people preferring the kr head on an abf bottom end. So am i right about the parts?

Will be fine.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Harooshum on 23 July 2010, 22:24
Yay! So the belt is the only abf-specific part and I can make it all work from kr parts. So if the engine runs lean at high rpms the kjet will eventually kill my engine as long as I don't rev it too high all the time. So can anyone advise on how long i can expect it to last before jet kills it?

Sorry to keep asking but it will be my 1st engine transplant!
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Wayne on 23 July 2010, 23:18
Yay! So the belt is the only abf-specific part and I can make it all work from kr parts. So if the engine runs lean at high rpms the kjet will eventually kill my engine as long as I don't rev it too high all the time. So can anyone advise on how long i can expect it to last before jet kills it?

Sorry to keep asking but it will be my 1st engine transplant!

Get it set up on a rolling road and it should be ok.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: mk2bal on 23 July 2010, 23:19
make sure the engine has the crank sensor in the bottom right corner of the block next to the oil filter,you wont need to use it but you will need it as a plug to stop oil escaping and the kjet engine you have doesnt have 1. i recently converted my kr setup to an abf engine, about 6-8weeks ago. its been rolling road setup, has been fine, and fast, but i have suffered det temporarily a week ago. im putting it down to fuel cos it only did it for 1 day, but basically you should be alrite for at least a couple of months!! i said to my rr man about every1 saying run it on digi and he disagreed-if you know how to setup kjet safely (and every component works) its fine was his response,and hes seen a few..
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: danny_p on 24 July 2010, 03:15
if you know how to setup kjet safely (and every component works) its fine was his response,and hes seen a few..

and as ong as said components stay working .......
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: 60fast on 24 July 2010, 06:07
nowt wrong with kjet ive ran 2.0 kjet for years with no probs and if i can hold my own against a r32 cant be that bad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpBZW6kOQDE&feature=related
some peeps are just too narrow minded
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 24 July 2010, 08:02
Maybe you're just not comfortable mixing with visionaries.

 :grin:
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: emery1990 on 24 July 2010, 10:51
Is that a standard 2l? Got to be close to 180bhp to keep up with an r32, dont they have bhp/weight of around 180bhp ?
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Harooshum on 24 July 2010, 12:08
Back in late '04 my friend bought a 6 month old '04 reg BMW 330ci cabriolet at £37k and even with his fancy smg gearbox in sport mode couldn't beat my standard mk2 16v 1.8 off the lights. I was ahead of him, but approaching 70-80mph I had no chance. Even with his 240bhp or so that bm still weighs around 1.6t or more compared to my 950kg-odd mk2!! He was sooo pissed off that he couldn't beat me coz coming close to 80mph we had to back off as we were on public roads! We did this twice with the same result. I imagine that r32 would have pulled ahead and won after 70mph in that vid.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Gti-Grimes on 28 July 2010, 21:22
For the last year i have had a mk2 golf running abf with kjet. Now im am swapping to a mk2 abf with abf management, as the engine with kjet is burning so much oil its a joke, car absolute reeks, have to drive with the window open non stop  :huh:... Performance wise the kjet model is fast, a 40-130 sprint in 4th gear with a focus st , i was ahead until i started to run out of steam at 130.  Havent had a go in the other one yet, as its in the process of an overhaul, but it will be interesting to see whether the kjet, or the digi/abf management car is faster.

I realise this wee paragraph may be of no help at all.  :smiley:
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 28 July 2010, 22:52
Heh, a Focus ST you say?

You've not been using the seat of your pants in the real world, against an ST have you?

Have you done a compression test on the motor - if it's burning oil it sounds like it's had most of the mechanical goodness extracted from it....
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 28 July 2010, 23:06
Quote from: diamond hell
You've not been using the seat of your pants in the real world, against an ST have you?

Are you ever going to stop going on about that?  :tongue:

Quote
Heh, a Focus ST you say?

Interesting that a seat ibiza with an ABF unit isn't as quick. The ibiza is effectively a polo, so maybe putting an ABF in a golf 2 makes it faster?
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Gti-Grimes on 28 July 2010, 23:47
Heh, a Focus ST you say?

You've not been using the seat of your pants in the real world, against an ST have you?

Have you done a compression test on the motor - if it's burning oil it sounds like it's had most of the mechanical goodness extracted from it....

Sorry mate, what do you mean by that second sentence? ..... Not done a compression test as the car has other issues, so swapping to the other car as the bodywork is not far off mint. Engine and car will be for sale shortly for anyone who is interested. Think the engine has had a hard life previous to me having it. Is puttin out a confirmed 178bhp, so is fairly nimple for a mk2 golf. Few other cars under the belt on a nice day, not the place to discuss such things though.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 29 July 2010, 14:35
Are you ever going to stop going on about that?  :tongue:

Yes, when Andywash is no longer mentioned.
Interesting that a seat ibiza with an ABF unit isn't as quick. The ibiza is effectively a polo, so maybe putting an ABF in a golf 2 makes it faster?

Yes, given that most of the Golfs in question have been stripped out, maybe had a tubular exhaust manifold put on them and aren't running a cat.  Those minor mods *might* make them faster than an Aybeefa. Parkers state the weight of an Aybeefa at 1100kg.  Even my Syncro's under that and odds on that's a dry weight, too.

So, remove 100kg, add 10-20bhp..... will it be faster?  You tell me.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 29 July 2010, 21:13
I must admit that I would be surprised if a golf 2 weighed less than an Ibiza.
The st argument was about a golf 2 complete with trim with a standard abf lump.
Would that be faster than an Ibiza fitted with an abf.
Probably not.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: emery1990 on 29 July 2010, 21:53
whats the 0-60 of an abf ibiza, a 1.8 16v golf with run in engine done it in 7 secs on that top gear video.

I rekon it would be faster, no cat and probally a little bit lighter.

7.9 secondsfor a seat ibiza abf
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 29 July 2010, 22:05
Cupra 16v book time is 7.8 seconds, book time on a mk2 16v is about 8 seconds. It's hard to find any decent info on mk2s as they are so old.
After doing some searching, the curb weight of a mk2 16v is about 1100 kg, the same as an early Ibiza.
This may not be correct, I will have to check mr.Haynes.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 29 July 2010, 22:42
Check a weighbridge instead - it's actually worth something.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 29 July 2010, 22:53
Check a weighbridge instead - it's actually worth something.

Does an Ibiza cupra 16v weigh more than a mk2 golf 16v, yes or no?
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: The Mighty Elvi on 29 July 2010, 22:56
1990 Volkswagen Golf GTi 16v    See all Volkswagen models


Wheelbase    2475 mm    97.4 in    
Track    front    1425 mm    56.1 in    
rear           1420 mm    55.9 in    
Length    3985 mm    156.9 in    
Width    1680 mm    66.1 in    
Height    1395 mm    54.9 in    
Length:wheelbase ratio    1.61
Ground clearance    105 mm    4.1 in    
Kerb weight            960 kg      2116 lb    
Weight distribution
(Front)    
Fuel capacity    55 litres    12.1 UK Gal    14.5 US Gal


http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=101530

Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: The Mighty Elvi on 29 July 2010, 22:59
They dont have an early Ibiza 16, only Toledo

http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/?man=5761

Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 29 July 2010, 23:08
 :rolleyes:

I have neither a weighbridge, a Seat Ibiza or a Golf2 GTI 16V in my front room and I suspect you don't either.

I'm sure your buddy Mark will be along to gee this up shortly.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Mew on 29 July 2010, 23:17
I'll take one for the team and put my 16v on the weighbridge next week
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 29 July 2010, 23:19
Can you do an Aybeefa afterwards plz thx.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Mew on 29 July 2010, 23:22
Can you do an Aybeefa afterwards plz thx.

no
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 29 July 2010, 23:41
Quote from: diamond hell
I'm sure your buddy Mark will be along to gee this up shortly.

I think you need to go and have a fag mate  :rolleyes: :grin:
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 30 July 2010, 08:47
:rolleyes:

I have neither a weighbridge, a Seat Ibiza or a Golf2 GTI 16V in my front room and I suspect you don't either.

I'm sure your buddy Mark will be along to gee this up shortly.

what are you on about this time you inbred cu nt?
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Diamond Hell on 30 July 2010, 09:15
Team sports, nipper.
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 30 July 2010, 23:04
Always got to get the last word  :grin:
Title: Re: ABF 2.0 woohoo!
Post by: Wayne on 30 July 2010, 23:19
Always got to get the last word  :grin:

Is that by the seat of his pants  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: