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Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: am1w on 01 July 2010, 10:16

Title: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 01 July 2010, 10:16
Well .. I had to post this as you will agree.
Yesterday evening my cousin came over in his white 3 door Mk6 GTi, DSG, 18" M Shadows, ACC, his mileage 2956 miles, mine 1659 miles.
We got chatting and I suggested we go for a fast spin in our respective cars to see who could accelerate faster from near standstill. We checked tyre pressures, filled our tanks to the brim with BP ultimate, our body weights are the same, no crap in the cars etc .. you get the picture.
We found a stretch of very clear road where the speed limit is 70 mph, put the ACC into sport mode, he did what he had to with the DSG and off we went.
By 60 mph I was a car's length ahead of him and by 70 mph I was at least 1.5 car's length ahead.
He was not pleased. So we had a re-run. Again the same result.
We did not exceed the 70 mph speed limit.
He then wanted to swap cars and repeat the excercise. I politely declined.
By this time we felt like very naughty school boy's in total delight for not having been caught. :cool:
Result: Red is the faster colour, manual in this case faster than DSG! :wink:
I'll give clever Wolfgang a treat this weekend! :smiley:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: sundaydriver on 01 July 2010, 11:14
You should have swapped cars to see if it was the car or just his driving! :grin:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 01 July 2010, 11:41
You should have swapped cars to see if it was the car or just his driving! :grin:

I was waiting patiently and knew someone would say this. :grin:
He is a very good driver and is 10 years my junior. He himself felt my car had more ooomph and so did I. :cool:
Wolfgang is a one man band! :laugh:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: sundaydriver on 01 July 2010, 11:53
You should have swapped cars to see if it was the car or just his driving! :grin:

I was waiting patiently and knew someone would say this. :grin:
He is a very good driver and is 10 years my junior. He himself felt my car had more ooomph and so did I. :cool:
Wolfgang is a one man band! :laugh:

Dont blame you, i dont let anyone else touch mine let alone drive it.
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: herbie911 on 01 July 2010, 14:40
Provided the gear ratio and options from both cars are similar or identical, the manual car will be slightly quicker in gear cause the DSG weigh more.

However, the difference can simply be due to variation in bhp between one car to another!

I know I got a decent one. Not a single drop of engine oil been consume despite the hot weather! The car also loosen up nicely after passing 4000miles! Will start adding a few BHP after my 1st service and before VAT inc. next year!
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: PenguinGTI on 01 July 2010, 14:45
Is this before your car got mapped?

If so then that is very impressive. If it was anyone else then I would argue with them about the impossibility of a manual winning but you are a true man and so I am satisfied to take you at your word.

Unless he was a bit of a muppet and left his DSG in 'd' mode. In my car at least the 'd' mode is a good bit slower than 's' or manual mode. I don't know if there is any difference in actual shift time but the fact that 'd' mode shifts up early (at like 4500rpm) does not help one accelerate speedily enough sometimes.
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: sundaydriver on 01 July 2010, 14:57
Is this before your car got mapped?

I dont think AMW1 has remapped his car, sure he will tell us
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 01 July 2010, 15:37
Penguin, Sundaydriver.
No I have not re-mapped my car. My cousin is a very good driver, far better than I am IMO. His DSG was in sport mode. He tried his best twice to beat me, but Wolfgang held sway!
We will have a re-run soon once he gets his car checked by VW! :rolleyes:
However, I don't hold much hope for him! :evil:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: PenguinGTI on 01 July 2010, 16:06
Well I must say congrats to you... I would have not thought this possible but you seem to have done it

(quite apart from that I have started falling out of love with my DSG... the direct drive nature of the gearbox means it can be quite jerky)
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 01 July 2010, 16:25
Well I must say congrats to you... I would have not thought this possible but you seem to have done it
(quite apart from that I have started falling out of love with my DSG... the direct drive nature of the gearbox means it can be quite jerky)

Thank you for your partial support. :grin:
My cousin lives in hope that he can beat me on a re-run.
He did not seem too pleased when I spoke to him taday. I was very considerate and did not rub salt into his wound.
I'll make sure that we fill our tanks from empty to full at the same time so there is no hanky panky etc etc.
I think Wolfgang is a good hound!
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: Sam on 01 July 2010, 17:12
Will you stop with the wolfgang thing  :grin:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: R32UK on 01 July 2010, 17:44
Is your cousins car a GTD in disguise  :lipsrsealed: :laugh:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: gizzywizzy on 01 July 2010, 17:48
Hi Asker

Surprised you were able to find roads anywhere round the capital where you were able to rack the cars up to 70mph.

Well done tho it is so nice to know what we manual owners have been saying all along "manual is definitely quicker" :laugh: :laugh:

Gizzy
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 01 July 2010, 18:41
Is your cousins car a GTD in disguise  :lipsrsealed: :laugh:

Please don't ruin my/our friend Steve's holiday. :lipsrsealed: :laugh:
Steve: Forget us for a few weeks and come back refreshed for more b!tchiness! :smiley:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: mike. on 01 July 2010, 18:46
Was he using "Launch Control" on the DSG?
If not you loose some time compared to a fast start slipping the clutch in a manual.

Like this video DSG vs Manual (http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/249676/) on an R
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 01 July 2010, 18:54
Hi Asker
Surprised you were able to find roads anywhere round the capital where you were able to rack the cars up to 70mph.
Well done tho it is so nice to know what we manual owners have been saying all along "manual is definitely quicker" :laugh: :laugh:
Gizzy

My cousin just popped in to say Hi!
He's just about recovered from the shock!
He's getting has car checked tomorrow and is adamant for a re-run. :rolleyes:
I told him I'll think about it if he makes it worth my while. :evil: :grin:
I told him at best we would be equals, at worst I'll beat him again. :evil: :laugh:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 01 July 2010, 18:56
Was he using "Launch Control" on the DSG?
If not you loose some time compared to a fast start slipping the clutch in a manual.
Like this video DSG vs Manual (http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/249676/) on an R

He garbled something after he lost the second time, but I paid little or no attention! :laugh:

PS: Whether I win or lose, I've booked an expensive French Resturant for him to wine and dine me on a Sunday! We'll  have another go on the Saturday before, very late! :cool:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: Saint Steve on 01 July 2010, 20:42
Hi Asker

Surprised you were able to find roads anywhere round the capital where you were able to rack the cars up to 70mph.

Well done tho it is so nice to know what we manual owners have been saying all along "manual is definitely quicker" :laugh: :laugh:

Gizzy
Dear god, what ever other interesting things am i gonna read in this forum tonight.

To believe a Human can shift a manual car quicker the 50 milliseconds,smoother without bogging down then a computer, ive gota see that :laugh:


Sorry i did laugh abit.Perhaps have Steve Sutcliff's job, cus he cant obviously cant launch a manual car

Your mate is right taking his car in to find out why its done on power  :smiley:

Perhaps he was suffering with Heat soak more then yours??

R video is a fair reflection on the differences.

Saw a mk6 GTi, Manual gearbox at inters couldnt get under 15 second quarter mile. Poor chap

Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: Steve30 on 01 July 2010, 20:47
Is your cousins car a GTD in disguise  :lipsrsealed: :laugh:

Brilliant gilly :laugh:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 01 July 2010, 21:19
Dear god (that's me!), what ever other interesting things am i gonna read in this forum tonight.
To believe a Human can shift a manual car quicker the 50 milliseconds,smoother without bogging down then a computer, ive gota see that (I did and it's not possible. I agree)  :laugh:
Sorry i did laugh abit.Perhaps have Steve Sutcliff's (He's got too much inertia and will be naturally slow) job, cus he cant obviously cant launch a manual car
Your mate is right taking his car in to find out why its done on power  :smiley:
Perhaps he was suffering with Heat soak more then yours??
R video is a fair reflection on the differences (Absolutely).
Saw a mk6 GTi, Manual gearbox at inters couldnt get under 15 second quarter mile. Poor chap (Don't feel sorry for us stick shifters. We love left wrist action!).

Reaction in red.
Just had a quick spin in cousin's DSG car. Rough engine. He'll get it sorted tomorrow.
Drove it myself. DSG not for me. I've got 2 legs and I like to use them as much as possible. I'm with Kev on this! :laugh:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 01 July 2010, 22:06
Will you stop with the wolfgang thing  :grin:

 ......'one man and his dog' ......... you b!tch! :grin:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: MAW73 on 02 July 2010, 12:17
Gears are soooooooooo yesterday. Got to be DSG for me everytime (there's nothing worse than sitting in a traffic and being constantly on and off the clutch and in and out of gear every second).

p.s. did you remind your cousin to put the DSG in in sport mode. He was probably just playing with ya  :evil:

aw1m - You've got a nice 'GEAR' knob though...!
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 02 July 2010, 13:44
Gears are soooooooooo yesterday. Got to be DSG for me everytime (there's nothing worse than sitting in a traffic and being constantly on and off the clutch and in and out of gear every second).
p.s. did you remind your cousin to put the DSG in in sport mode. He was probably just playing with ya  :evil:
aw1m - You've got a nice 'GEAR' knob though...!

Ha ha. Being a yesterday's man, I am in sync with my knob and love touching it constantly.
Yes, my cousin did have it in Sport mode. His car is being checked today by VW. Was not quite right when I drove it.
BTW: You can also get an Ed30 knob for your DSG shift. :smiley:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: MAW73 on 02 July 2010, 14:25
Gears are soooooooooo yesterday. Got to be DSG for me everytime (there's nothing worse than sitting in a traffic and being constantly on and off the clutch and in and out of gear every second).
p.s. did you remind your cousin to put the DSG in in sport mode. He was probably just playing with ya  :evil:
aw1m - You've got a nice 'GEAR' knob though...!

Ha ha. Being a yesterday's man, I am in sync with my knob and love touching it constantly.
Yes, my cousin did have it in Sport mode. His car is being checked today by VW. Was not quite right when I drove it.
BTW: You can also get an Ed30 knob for your DSG shift. :smiley:


ummm maybe then DSG actually stands for 'Dead Slow Gearshift'  :smiley:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: mac7 on 02 July 2010, 19:29
Gears are soooooooooo yesterday. Got to be DSG for me everytime (there's nothing worse than sitting in a traffic and being constantly on and off the clutch and in and out of gear every second).

Real GTI's don't sit in traffic - they live out on the open road with a keen driver, er, gripping his knob...  :grin:

I know DSG changes gear faster than I do, but in a front wheel drive car can it get off the line quicker than a good driver with a manual? This is where a lot of time can be lost.
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: Snoopy on 02 July 2010, 19:44
Oh dear DSG v Manual again.   :sad:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 02 July 2010, 20:27
Oh dear DSG v Manual again.   :sad:

I hope not! Oh noooooooo! :sad:+

More like, I hope:
A bit of family fun. :cool:
Red versus White. :grin:
Older versus Younger. :wink:
5 door versus 3 door. :rolleyes:

Roll on a Saturday/Sunday. :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: ErikGTI on 03 July 2010, 08:14
It is funny that people can still make discussions out of proven technological breakthroughs...
It is 2010 for godsake so we are actcually no longer supposed to drive manual we have DSG and PDK for it....give it another 10 years (yes we are hardheaded) and all cars have this advanced technical improvement...and if you want control than leave the automatic STIG and flipper yourself  :cool:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 03 July 2010, 10:02
It's going to happen again 'possibly' tonight. :rolleyes: 
My cousin says his car is a peach now! Air filter was changed and checked thoroughly by VW.
..... hmmmmm.......
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: mac7 on 03 July 2010, 11:49
It is funny that people can still make discussions out of proven technological breakthroughs...

I'm just interested because I keep coming across instances where a manual box has out-run a DSG in a sprint.

Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: Snoopy on 03 July 2010, 12:04
I did find it funny when years ago VWde got VWoz to remove there original youtube videos of when they got the first batch of DSG mk5 cars and sprinted them against the manuals as it contradicted all the previous videos and promotions. :grin:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 03 July 2010, 14:08
What really tickles me pink is that win or lose, it will cost my cousin £100 per head for dinner tomorrow! :evil: :laugh:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: R32UK on 03 July 2010, 18:29
It is funny that people can still make discussions out of proven technological breakthroughs...
It is 2010 for godsake so we are actcually no longer supposed to drive manual we have DSG and PDK for it....give it another 10 years (yes we are hardheaded) and all cars have this advanced technical improvement...and if you want control than leave the automatic STIG and flipper yourself  :cool:

Some people like to have internet sex thanks to technological break throughs... wont stop you wanting to do the real thing now will it?? :wink:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 03 July 2010, 19:55
It is funny that people can still make discussions out of proven technological breakthroughs...
It is 2010 for godsake so we are actcually no longer supposed to drive manual we have DSG and PDK for it....give it another 10 years (yes we are hardheaded) and all cars have this advanced technical improvement...and if you want control than leave the automatic STIG and flipper yourself  :cool:
Some people like to have internet sex thanks to technological break throughs... wont stop you wanting to do the real thing now will it?? :wink:

LOL!
The sleep before you come lazy sex brigade is here. :laugh:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 04 July 2010, 09:06
.... and here are the results of the second head to head ......

Red manual GTi 5 door versus White DSG GTi 3 door - 0-60 mph acceleration ....Result = neck and neck after three goes.

....but I had more fun as I held my knob throughout. :grin:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: Snoopy on 04 July 2010, 10:54
....but I had more fun as I held my knob throughout. :grin:
He probably did his too and worked it vigorously  :evil: Well DSG owners have to do something to relieve the boredom of driving steering an auto  :evil: :grin: :wink: :tongue:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 04 July 2010, 11:32
....but I had more fun as I held my knob throughout. :grin:
He probably did his too and worked it vigorously  :evil: Well DSG owners have to do something to relieve the boredom of driving steering an auto  :evil: :grin: :wink: :tongue:

LOL!
 .... and I'll leave the best for last ......
He's just called me and said that he wished he'd bought a manual instead! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: Snoopy on 04 July 2010, 11:47
Maybe Red is just faster than white  :evil:


Your a GTI driver not a GTE driver :grin:
Just been reading this on another forum

Adverts i remember was for the Mk2 Golf GTI. It's just a simple photo of a red Golf GTI and a white Astra GTE next to it at traffic lights on red with the GTE driver looking at the lights waiting for them to change, meanwhile the GTI driver is just looking ahead without a care. For me that summed up the GTI model, as the driver had nothing to prove and wasn't interested in racing off at the lights. It was the benchmark people compared to!

My first experience of a Volkswagen was as a child of 8 or 9 years old when my brother bought a 1982 Volkswagen Golf GTI Mk1. The car was silver and had an unmistakable look about it. It looked sporty but at the same time very simple, probably because it didn't have big bumpers and spoilers unlike rival cars like the GTE or the XR3i. As a passenger in the car it felt very solid and safe, even at higher speeds. This car had such an influence on me it's made me into the VW enthuisiast i am today 20 years later.

My favourite advert of all time has to be 'GTi Forever' (see below), very clever advert.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kENnmEGodzo
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: ErikGTI on 05 July 2010, 12:04
You can ask yourself what criterium they take getting the manual figures.... :huh:

It cannot be a coincident that ALL the DSG and PDK figures are more favorable with an average of 0.3 seconds (although that in itself is actually not much)...0-60
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 05 July 2010, 15:13
It is of moot importance whether a DCG equipped car is a few tenths of a second faster.
Driving a DSG equipped car is equivalent to having penetrative sex without touching the recipient. I'm being kind! :rolleyes:

R32UK mentioned earlier: Some people like to have internet sex thanks to technological break throughs... wont stop you wanting to do the real thing now will it??

Gilly (R32UK): Just realised that the poor sods don't want the real thing! :sad:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: PenguinGTI on 05 July 2010, 16:17
To be fair it requires certain criteria:

1. both engines be equally strong (ie same torque and hp levels throughout the rev range)
2. both engines be shifted at the same rev
3. same fuel
4. same tyres, tyre pressures etc,
5. same weight (although in this case it was the 5door that was quicker)

In those situations I believe a DSG must be quicker. I believe people can shift fast, but doing so will wear the clutch. And if you don't destroy your clutch then you inevitably allow the turbo to spool down and so you get a little lag.

Don't get me wrong, I still think the DSG is flawed, but I do honestly believe that for combining the fastest gearchanges with preserving the clutch, the DSG wins.

But then again... am1w can do amazing things with a knob  :laugh:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 05 July 2010, 16:43
Penguin:
On the re-run we were neck and neck. :smiley:
I think our weights were pretty much the same as he is 3 door, leather, DSG and I am cloth, manual, 5 door.
Our body weights are also the same: I am tall and slim :rolleyes:, he is slightly shorter and stouter :evil:.
Yes, I can do amazing things with my Ed30 knob, IMO and yours! :drool: :laugh:

But I can assure you I had/have more fun. Man and machine are one.

I will be preserving my clutch, I can assure you, always! :smiley:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: ErikGTI on 05 July 2010, 16:54

Driving a DSG equipped car is equivalent to having penetrative sex without touching the recipient. I'm being kind! :rolleyes:


Frankly that is rather a poor comparison since SHIFTING resembles wanking while DSG is more like just lie down and I will do everything for you...you will have the ride of your life......while I am not being kind...  :evil:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 05 July 2010, 16:56
Frankly that is rather a poor comparison since SHIFTING resembles wanking while DSG is more like just lie down and I will do everything for you...you will have the ride of your life......while I am not being kind...  :evil:

O deary, deary me! :huh: :laugh: :cry: :rolleyes: :shocked: :tongue: :embarassed: :sick:

O ......   :wink: :smiley:!
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: ErikGTI on 05 July 2010, 17:08
..Okay back to square one..it is what you like... :lipsrsealed:

Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: PenguinGTI on 05 July 2010, 17:36
Penguin:
On the re-run we were neck and neck. :smiley:
I think our weights were pretty much the same as he is 3 door, leather, DSG and I am cloth, manual, 5 door.
Our body weights are also the same: I am tall and slim :rolleyes:, he is slightly shorter and stouter :evil:.
Yes, I can do amazing things with my Ed30 knob, IMO and yours! :drool: :laugh:

But I can assure you I had/have more fun. Man and machine are one.

I will be preserving my clutch, I can assure you, always! :smiley:

Glad to hear it about your clutch.

I will agree that manual is more fun.

Are you still coming up sometime soon? Be nice for Dom to meet Wolfgang
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 05 July 2010, 19:07
..Okay back to square one..it is what you like... :lipsrsealed:

Your understanding is most appreciated. :smiley:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 05 July 2010, 19:18
Penguin:
On the re-run we were neck and neck. :smiley:
I think our weights were pretty much the same as he is 3 door, leather, DSG and I am cloth, manual, 5 door.
Our body weights are also the same: I am tall and slim :rolleyes:, he is slightly shorter and stouter :evil:.
Yes, I can do amazing things with my Ed30 knob, IMO and yours! :drool: :laugh:
But I can assure you I had/have more fun. Man and machine are one.
I will be preserving my clutch, I can assure you, always! :smiley:
Glad to hear it about your clutch.
I will agree that manual is more fun.
Are you still coming up sometime soon? Be nice for Dom to meet Wolfgang

I very much wanted to take a trip your way before I go on a road trip to France at the end of this month. Hence the Sat Nav! This trip is the delayed trip which was to include Le Mans in June. The reasons this did not take place is because, unfortunately, I have been having some awful neck problems which seemed to have nearly disappeared until yesterday. Thankfully, recovery is taking place rapidly even without the use of painkillers.
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: ErikGTI on 05 July 2010, 19:18
Totally off topic but next week we are going on a vacation to......Germany... :evil:
We will be going out for a lot of spins.......bothering them.....even if they (are gonna) loose the championship...I will be without mercy.... :smiley:..

The 555 Schwarzwalder Hochstrasse will be mine.... :evil:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 05 July 2010, 19:29
Totally off topic but next week we are going on a vacation to......Germany... :evil:
We will be going out for a lot of spins.......bothering them.....even if they (are gonna) loose the championship...I will be without mercy.... :smiley:..
The 555 Schwarzwalder Hochstrasse will be mine.... :evil:

Erik: I worry for you.
Holland are def in the final IMO. Germany will beat Spain. This would mean a final between you two very loving neighbours. Are you not worried that you might get physically invaded when you are in 'The Fatherland?' They will show no mercy. :evil: :laugh:
The British Army (+our footballers) is at present very stretched fighting in Afghanistan and we will be unable to help. :sad:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: ErikGTI on 05 July 2010, 19:54
Time to be honest... :embarassed:....Loosing so may times in the past...I must admit I am in doubt if we win this time......however...me next week facing the BMW's and Audis overthere is a different matter..."Heil Remap"  :evil:
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: am1w on 05 July 2010, 19:59
Time to be honest... :embarassed:....Loosing so may times in the past...I must admit I am in doubt if we win this time......however...me next week facing the BMW's and Audis overthere is a different matter..."Heil Remap"  :evil:

Have faith. Lots and lots of it :lipsrsealed:!
This German team is quite superb being young, fast and powerful just like your car! :cool: 
Title: Re: Sooo... I went out for a little spin!
Post by: ErikGTI on 05 July 2010, 20:16
....now there is a good comparison 1-1 for us  :smiley: