GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: fishnchipsx2 on 28 June 2010, 21:23
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This is where all the ABF conversion junkies hang out, so I hope nobody minds me posting in this section (http://www.clubgti.com/forum/images/smilies/smiley9.gif)
Got an ABF from an M-reg mk3, to be going into a 1990 G-reg Mk1 Caddy :wink:
Have been stripping down my ABF loom, great fun :grin: But 99% of it makes sense now and is all labelled up... (Thanks to www.dannyp.info (http://www.dannyp.info), cheers! (http://www.clubgti.com/forum/images/smilies/smiley20.gif))
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P3180099.jpg)
I returned to the mk3 that I ripped the engine out of to grab the transponder box etc. (Before he didn't want me to take the key as he will have to steer it out of the barn, but today we came up with the obvious genius idea of snapping the key off in the lock.)
Here is a pic of the box and key:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P3180098.jpg)
The round space in the middle of the key... do I need the cell-looking round metal thing that should be in there? Or does the inductive loop pick up off the grey rectangular part? If I need the round bit, will a VW dealer supply and code it for me for a less-than-extortionate price?
The data-link from pin 43 of the ECU is Grey+White on mine, I assume I need to join this to the Grey+White colour on the transponder box... but what are the grey and black wires for?
Thanks in advance,
Calum
PS: DannyP, I have written down all the wire colours that were different on my loom compared to your tables (not many, just a few), would you like me to send you them?
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there seem to be two diffrent sets of colours used in the ABF looms easyest way to tell is the wire colours going to the immob box
there ether brown, brown, black, green, red or as you have brown, brown, black, grey white, grey. TBH i havent done anythign with the site for a while now, proably should find some motivation to get round to doing something with it
on yours iirc the colours are as follows.
Brown, brown = ground
grey white = data link
black = + volts ignition live
grey = OBD port signal
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Sweet, cheers man - forgot about the OBD wire, I can sack that off then :smiley:
What is your preferred method of splicing looms - crimps, or solder, or both, or something completely different?
And any ideas about the round metal bit? (http://www.japan-legend.com/emoticons/simple/shrugs.gif)
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the small rectangular thing is the RFID chip thats the only bit you need. stick the key body to the inductive loop an your sorted.
as for joining looms i use meany methods depending on what i'm joining.
for the new stuff the only accseptable way to joing the 0.35mm signal wires is crimping ( but not the sh!tty motorfactor crimps ) I use unisulated gold plated crimps desinged for .25mm - .5 mm then cover with a clear adhesive heatshrink. it's the proper way but the crimps arn't cheep and the crimping tool is expensive.
the rest of wires will ether get crimped with standard bare crimps and heatshrinked or soldered and heatshrinked. on the older stuff std bare crimps or solering will do.
tho crimping with proper crimpers and decent quality crimps is about the best way of joining wires tho the only thing worse than crap crap crimps is scotch locks. you are much better off solering than useing motorfactor crimps, just scrub the join with some alcohol to remove the flux before heatshrinking. on the ABF solering works just fine for all the connections needed to splice the loom in.
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the small rectangular thing is the RFID chip thats the only bit you need. stick the key body to the inductive loop an your sorted.
Yaaaaay, that saves a lot of hassle :smiley:
Solder and heatshrinking it is then...
Thanks for the help, I'm sure I'll be asking for more when I hopefully drop it in next weekend!
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Question: Will a mk1 gti fuel pump be fine, or will it kick out too much pressure? (I have heard that K-Jet is very high pressure, even for an injection system?)
The mk3 pump seems to be in the tank, so don't really wanna cut a larger hole in my tank to make it fit if I can just bolt a mk1 gti pump under the bed...
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fuel pressure is controlled by the fuel pressure reg in the rail,
no matter what pump it won't be abel to make any more pressure than 3 bar as the reg just returns the fuel to the tank.
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Good stuff, cheers!
Ripped the diseasel motor out today :smiley:
The coolant (yes, pure coolant straight outta the rad - head gasket has been blowing for a while!)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs064.snc4/34584_10150223336940438_569395437_13362161_2351817_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs064.snc4/34584_10150223336930438_569395437_13362160_6150706_n.jpg)
Who needs engine cranes?
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs077.snc4/35211_10150216684625117_633345116_13252879_2013341_n.jpg)
Obligatory sat-in-bay photo
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs024.ash2/34584_10150223336950438_569395437_13362163_1215724_n.jpg)
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Obligatory sat-in-bay photo
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs024.ash2/34584_10150223336950438_569395437_13362163_1215724_n.jpg)
i like your new engine!
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why didnt you remove the front end?
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why didnt you remove the front end?
that would be too easy :cool:
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i like your new engine!
Why thank you! :kiss:
why didnt you remove the front end?
On Mk1's, that would require getting the angle grinder out. :wink:
Plus, it wouldn't be so much fun sitting in the bay making noises like Vroom, Vroooooooom, VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!
:grin: :grin:
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thats 1 way fo sho! on my cabby i lifted car up in the air with crane and slid engine in from underneath :grin:
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Ah Rubjonny I'm glad you popped in, just the person I need to speak to! :grin:
I've just dropped my diesel tank out, and it's nice and spangley and shiny and clean inside :smiley:
It a quick rinse-out with petrol going to be satisfactory, or have you any other suggestions?
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Give it a GOOD rinse with some petrol that is destined for a mower.
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It was real hot today, so not a huge amount of progress (my mind and body slows down in the heat... and I think the large quantities of diesel fumes inhaled probably didn't help much, kept me happy tho! :grin: )
Tank is now rinsed out with petrol and nice and clean, and my old man has some free diesel for his motor.
Have removed everything of value off the diesel motor, some of it to sell/swap for parts and some of it to keep as spares.
Put a brand spanking new KR clutch on the ABF (to match the mk2 16v gearbox I'll be using, nice short ratios :wink: ). Also swapped over a couple of CV joints - had a couple of old mk2 ones lying around which were in better condition than the ones on the Scirocco driveshafts I bough off ebay. (Clutch and driveshafts have been the biggest expense of this conversion so far).
Removed bits like P/S pump off the ABF, attached mk1 driver's side mount (trimmed lower cambelt cover to fit), will be swapping the alloy sump for the reinforced steel diesel one and attaching gearbox tomorrow.
Fuel tank will be going back on tomorrow (with a different level sender, old one doesn't work), and I'll plumb up the GTi fuel pump, accumulator and filter.
Probably won't be lifting the engine in until Saturday afternoon due to work (being a chef means I work oddly-timed shifts), still gotta chop up the mk1 4-branch and get a 16v flange welded onto it... (have already had a flange plasma-cut out for me).
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nice work. keep the pics coming :D
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Fuel tank is back on... now I gotta bolt and plumb up the mk1 gti pump. So here's my next questions:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010001.jpg)
Which way does the fuel flow?
Also, should I use the mk1 gti accumulator? And again, which way does the fuel flow through it?
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010002.jpg)
Also got the filter to plumb in. What order does everything need to go in?
The plastic diesel lines don't really seem to be up to the job, so I think I'll just use rubber hose (rated for high pressure of course), possibly run through the cab, unless anyone has any better ideas...
Thanks in advance...
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You don't need the accumulator.
The banjo end is the pressure side IIRC.
Where's the lift pump?
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You don't need the accumulator.
So you think it will only benefit a K-jet system, not Digifant? It's not like I don't have space under the bed for it!
The banjo end is the pressure side IIRC.
Cool, that's what I'd have thought.
Where's the lift pump?
The tank doesn't have one, the feed just comes out the side of the tank (which I've now washed out with petrol and strapped back in place)
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100011.jpg)
I believe most UK mk1 GTi's didn't have a lift pump either (can't find any lift-pumps on them on Vagcat either) , so I think I should be fine.
I'm not one of those people who tends to drive around all the time with 1 litre of fuel in the tank, but if fuel starvation does become a problem, it looks like lift pumps are available from mk1 Cabrios, Vagcat shows this too (pic stolen from random site):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/JOCONNELL100/Fuel_Sender-1.jpg)
Update coming soon with loads of pics (even though I haven't done much since the last ones)
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As promised...
I haven't done much since the last update, but I just took a sh*tload of pics, so here they are. :smiley:
"Before" shot of the engine bay...
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100025.jpg)
..."After" shot will come later if I actually bother to clean it :smiley:
Bagz sold me his 8v 4-branch today (even tho he needs it to replace his cracked manifold :grin:), this is it placed on top of the diesel downpipe.
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100004.jpg)
Need to cut off the flange, get Mr Coltech the welder to bend 2 pipes and weld on a plasma-cut 16v flange. Works out cheaper than buying a 16v conversion 4-branch, and it will actually fit without fouling the steering rack (hopefully :lipsrsealed:)
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100005.jpg)
It also has a gash bit of 2.5" flexi welded onto the end [xx(], think I'll cut it off and get a proper braided flexi welded on.
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100009.jpg)
Also needs a reducer to the standard 1.5" exhaust. Restrictive I know, but it'll do for now!
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100007.jpg)
Manifold came with heat-wrap too :cool:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100022.jpg)
Drained diesel out of tank, took it off and rinsed it out with petrol, then put it back on:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100011.jpg)
Put a brand spanking new mk2 16v clutch on the ABF to match the KR gearbox I'll be using:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100014.jpg)
Bolted up the mk1 driver's side engine mount. Trimmed the lower cambelt cover so it would fit, will probably need a bit more taking off to clear the body mount:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100015.jpg)
Metal oil cap FTW:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100020.jpg)
Found that the fitting for feed to the fuel rail has been snapped, found part no. on Vagcat so will find out if the Stealers have any on Monday:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100016.jpg)
Although there is a blocked-off nipple further down the rail, maybe I could use that if needed...? (http://www.japan-legend.com/emoticons/simple/shrugs.gif) ...hopefully won't need to consider that option tho!
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100017.jpg)
This is the diesel sump, Animal (previous owner of the truck) put a nice hardcore plate on it, so I'll be using it instead of the ABF's pussy ali sump. (Oh and there's Muttley making another appearance, cheeky!)
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100013.jpg)
That's all for now, I plan to bolt the engine in tomorrow :tongue:
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Been thinking a bit harder about the fuel pump situation. I've come to the conclusion that seeing as I don't have a lift pump, I SHOULD use the accumulator? :huh:
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accumilator has no purpose with digi, but you do need lift pump
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Pumps either push or pull, not both.
The lift pump pulls, the pressure pump, pushes. You need both.
Don't ask the push pump to pull, it'll expire rather fast.
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Still haven't got my head round this fuel pump thing... in my mind, the K-Jet pump was designed to be fed by gravity straight from the tank as in all mk1 gti's, so I don't see the problem here. However, the words of DH and DannyP tend to be wise words, so I will buy a lift pump asap :grin:
More progress today, I'll post when the photof**ket upload finishes... :smiley:
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Started this morning with this:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100025.jpg)
Removed ali sump, fitted plated steel sump with new gasket:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010120.jpg)
Had a few mates coming and going to lend helping hands throughout the day, mk2 KR gearbox going on here: (Also set up a sunshade, today was HOT! :cool:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010126.jpg)
Engine going in:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010127.jpg)
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010128.jpg)
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010129.jpg)
The tensioner on the ridiculously large ABF alternator bracket fouled the chassis leg. Apparently a 2.0 8v alternator setup will fit, but I opted for the "if there's no space, make some" method:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010130.jpg)
Bagz hard at work:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010131.jpg)
A reasonably large dent was made, protected from rust with spray-on underseal. It's never going to be a shiny show-bay!
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010138.jpg)
Then I jacked up the front for better access to mounts etc:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010135.jpg)
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010136.jpg)
Doing rear gearbox mount here I think, putting the carpet down on the gravel drive was a goooood idea, saves dropped nuts and bolts from getting buried too:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010133.jpg)
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010134.jpg)
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010137.jpg)
Front mount has too much space, although this is common on Mk1s. I pikeyed a spacer plate a mate made up out of thick ali for his mk1, which he no longer uses as the gap closed up when we raised his engine 2 inches a couple of weeks ago.
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010141.jpg)
But the important thing is, she's in!
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010140.jpg)
Put the upper inlet manifold on right away, don't want any rogue nuts falling down the ports!
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010144.jpg)
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010142.jpg)
Got a list of bits and bobs to get tomorrow like fuel hose, clips, dizzy cap+rotor arm, brake fluid resevoir (mate dropped the engine onto the old one! :grin: ), oil filter, alternator belt etc. Then it's time to get stuck in with the wiring :cool:
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you may get away with gravity feeding the pump, it worked for some audi's and t25'.
i've had problems with gravity fed injection pumps before tho caused menay hours of headbanging on the mg
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you might get away without the lift pump on this tank as the outlet is at the bottom, mk1 GTIs had the outlet on the bottom of the tank and this was plumbed in direct to the main pump. However, they also had a swirl pot built into the tank to prevent fuel starvation, if the diesel tank doesnt have one you may suffer from fuel starvation as the fuel sloshes about in the tank. If you remove the level sender from your tank and shine a torch in you should see the swirl pot sat in there if fitted, its like a round pot sat in the lowest part of the tank, the oputlet on the base of the tank is fed from this pot.
If you can just see the tank is empty and the outlets are just sat in the side of the tank, you need a lift pump. the later cabrio and scirocco used a lift pump, this didn't have a swirl pot. to prevent fuel starvation issues there was a plastic reservoir fitted under the car in front of the main pump. The MK2 GTI doesn't have a swirl pot either, the main pump is sat inside a plastic tank which performs the same job as the separate plastic tank on the MK1 cabrio/scirocco.
you can get the lift pump and tank from MK3 Polos as well as later cabrio/scirocco. Any MK3 Polo will do as they're all fuel injected (think Polo G40 shape) Also they have a handy braket which holds the reservoir, main pump and fuel filter under the car in a line which may be useful to you.
The main pump setup from a GT or G40 will be fine on the ABF engine as well, but you already have a k-jet pump so I would use that. You can hack the ruber pipe off the banjo bolt on the end of the pump and pop on your rubber pipe to there, or alternativly you can get new banjo fittings designed for push fit rubber fuel injection hose on ebay.
as above either way you go about it, you dont need the accumulator its only needed on k-jet models.
edit: oh and MK2 lift pumps wont fit a MK1 tank, but I'm not sure what the fitting is like on a caddy tank, can you get pics?
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Good stuff, that makes more sense to me now. :smiley: I'll be down the scrappies sometime this week hopefully, should be able to find one then, plus some vauxhall calipers which are supposed to bolt right up to mk1s with some shoulder bolts I already have.
I plan to use the calipers with 280mm 5-stud Mk3 discs. :cool: However, I'm not actually sure this is going to work: I've only seen this done with 4-stud discs, and I believe they have a slightly different offset to 5-stud discs? :huh: I think that what I need is 'narrow-track 5-stud discs'... maybe off some sort of Seat? Would be nice to buy some discs off the shelf and not have to re-drill G60 discs.
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howe have you converted it to 5 stud chap? cant see any reference in this thread?
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howe have you converted it to 5 stud chap? cant see any reference in this thread?
Re-drilled discs and drums to fit the new beetle 5x100 steel wheels :cool:
(Done with pillar drill and a jig)
PS: The front setup is mk1 gti vented (re-drilled), so stopping power isn't too bad already.
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Sorry, but I've got to ask......
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P1010126.jpg)
Shouldn't you guys have an adult supervising you on this work? :grin:
This:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/P7100017.jpg)
I think is an air-bleed.
PS: The front setup is mk1 gti vented (re-drilled), so stopping power isn't too bad already.
239mm vented + ABF is going to = hedge in pretty short shrift.
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:grin: The baby-faced assassins helping out there!
Good shout on the air-bleed. Just rang up TPS and they will have the clip/fitting I need in a day or two anyway :smiley:
I think 280mm discs with Vauxhall calipers and a 22mm m/c should do the job pretty well for a dinky little mk1! Still not sure whether or not I'm gonna ditch the horrible sloppy linkage bar running across the bulkhead and re-locate the m/c in front of the pedal (means running no servo), did it to a mate's 1.3 mk1 and he loves the extra control, although I somehow think an ABF may require a little more leg muscle at times! Will have to take his for a test drive to judge for myself.
Also need to source some brackets for attaching my anti-rollbar to the body to help avoid those hedges.
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that clip on fuel rail is for attaching a fuel pressure gauge, so you can test pump and fpr function.
so you redrilled the MK1 hubs to 5x100? if so you might be able to use early Passat VR6 discs, they are 5 stud but use the same hub offset as G60 4 stud discs. VW only though:
357 615 301 A - 280 brake disc, 5x100 - 38.83+VAT
also you can get adaptor brackets that allow you to fit G60 calipers & carriers to a MK1, or as you say you could go the vaux route. If you have a random 4 stud 280mm disc sat about test fit it to your setup, if it fits fine the passat disc above will bolt right on :)
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Awesome! Yeah mk1 hubs are drilled. I knew there'd be something out there for my needs, and I knew you'd be the man to tell me what it is :grin:
Although saying that, G60 discs are only £25 from GSF, so I might go down the re-drill route anyway :tongue:
I'll have to try and borrow some discs off someone to have a test-fit...
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yeah if you can do hubs you can do discs! mattneck might be able to get you a better price since he works for TPS :)
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Good job on the build, that'll be a weapon when it's built :cool:
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Good job on the build, that'll be a weapon when it's built :cool:
Like a hedge-seeking missile?
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Good job on the build, that'll be a weapon when it's built :cool:
Like a hedge-seeking missile?
:smiley:
Could be, if the whole ropey brakes issue isn't sorted out. But ABF in lightweight Caddy shell should make for quite a quick wee car.
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Good job on the build, that'll be a weapon when it's built :cool:
Like a hedge-seeking missile?
:grin:
I'm not worried about hedges so much as more stubborn things like trees and lamp-posts!
Gave my 4-branch to my welder tonight to weld up. I would rather like to drive this to BugJam next weekend, so the blue sunshade will be making another appearance tomorrow to fend off the rain whilst I make a start on wiring in the ECU.
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Gave my 4-branch to my welder tonight to weld up.
Make sure it's braced so the flange won't 'curl' when it cools off after welding, or it'll never seal until it's put across a surface grinder. I bolted my tubular manifold down and then welded flats between the runners to prevent it from curling when I did mine.
Good luck with the deadline :shocked:
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He showed me the flange last night, it's pretty thick. He did this for a mate (one of the 8-yr-olds in some of the earlier pics) for his mk1 KR conversion, worked really well. I'll suggest bracing to him, but he is a reputable welder who's spent his life building hotrod frames and doing roof-chops, so he's pretty clued up!
He's only tacking it together for now, so I can offer it up to the engine and see if it'll fit, tall blocks in mk1s have a reputation of 4-branch/steering rack clearance issues.
I guess that if I wanna drive this to BugJam, I really should go out there and get cracking right now! :laugh:
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if he's good it won't be a problem - he should be able to keep the temps down.
I'm a bodging c*nt who'd rather ensure there's good penetration, even if it burns a touch (matron!). :grin:
Risk is that is does curl and then you need to get it flatted back.
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That reminds me, I need at least 1 new exhaust gasket.
Wiring is going well so far, I'm sure questions will come later...
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Here's a bit of info (if anyone's interested) on the blue/white wire from ECU for vehicle speed sensor (VSS), apparently for cruise control and automatic Corrado spoilers and the like. I've read this from an American site (http://www.rabbitgtipage.com/Swaps/engineswaps.html): (Albeit for an ABA 8v)
The VSS sends a signal to the cluster which is then converted into a signal that continues onto the ECU. If the ECU sees you accellerating in 4th or 5th gears and sees nothing coming in from the VSS, it cuts the the engine off. The main issue is to get around this speed limiter/engine cut in fourth and fifth gear if the ECU is not provided with a proper speed signal.
...
If you are pursuing the splicing method, you can use a mechanical speedometer cable driven cluster from a Mk1 or Mk2 that had cruise control or an MFA computer. You must splice a wire into the hall effect sender and run that to the ECU speed input from the cluster.
Exactly how the ECU knows what gear I'm in beats me. Luckily, I did source some mk1 gti clocks with a rev counter, which just so happens to have an MFA, so if I want over 6000rpm in 4th+5th, I can have it :grin:
Anyway, here come the questions...
* Lambda sensor -ECU pins 28, 20 and 42 - which are heater, and which are signal wires? (Bearing in mind that my pin28 is non-existent, due to model variation I believe. Is there a different wire from ECU I need to use?) Still not really sure on relay pin numbers either. Please don't tell me I need to return my cheapo 4-wire sensor and buy a 3-wire one! :grin:
Edit: Just been looking thru the wiring diagrams, pin65 seems to be relevant too, although not sure if I have that? Will check tomorrow...
* Oil sensors - there's 3 on top of the oil filter, I think I've got em figured out, but just to double-check, can anyone tell me what they are from left to right? :rolleyes:
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sounds like crap to me, I've done plenty of accellerating in 4th & 5th and theres never been a problem on mine and VSS feed has never been connected. as you say, how will it know its in 4th & 5th anyway? My thoughts were it was to limit the top speed, but only a guess.
28 - lambda heater relay trigger, only present on early models. later models the lambda just gets power direct from fuel pump relay. if you have a relay and no pin 28, the last pin on relay will be an earth
20 - lambda sensor live (black wire on lambda)
42 - lambda sensor earth (grey wire on lambda)
65 - shield for lambda sensor wires
all abfs use a 4 wire lambda sensor :)
large brown/blue sensor -> low oil pressure switch, blue/black wire
large white sensor -> high oil pressure switch, yellow wire
small white sensor -> mfa oil temp, green/black wire
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She's all wired up. Just need to get myself to TPS tomorrow for a fuel-rail fitting, and then wait for a couple of 6mm-8mm fuel line reducers to come thru from ebay, and I'll be able to fire her up! (Albeit without a manifold :laugh: )
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Just to double check my lambda wiring, because this is the only bit that isn't making sense to me (http://www.clubgti.com/forum/images/smilies/smiley5.gif)
It's a cheapo 4-wire sensor, and my ECU doesn't have anything from pins 28 or 65.
Lambda Black wire: ECU pin20
Lambda Grey wire: ECU pin42
Lambda White wire: Relay pin87
Lambda White wire: Earth
Relay pin86: Fuel pump live
Relay pin30: Fuel pump live
Relay pin85: Earth
If you want me to draw a diagram, just gimme a shout :smiley:
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not all ABF looms have proveision for a dedicated relay for the heated lambda, if yours is such a loom th power for it comes from the fuel pump relay
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yeah that sounds right, here is an abf wiring diagram:
http://vwtech.no-ip.info/downloads/g3abfecu.pdf
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Good work on the build so far :cool:
Quick question as I haven't gone back and re read the thread but what g/box are you using?
Cheers, watching with interest.
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Ah, makes a lot more sense now. I thought lambda heater was only triggered when engine was cold rather than being on all the time. :rolleyes:
Using a mk2 16v gearbox (which was given to me for free :cool: ). Means nice short raggable ratios to make up for my 16" wheels. Also means I needed to get 100mm driveshafts, which I'll fit tomorrow (just got a CV joint off the donor mk3 to replace a dodgy one on my new shafts).
Gonna delay the key turning till Weds night when I will get my original cast ABF manifold back, so I will at least have a bit of pipe on there!
Unfortunately my welder is very busy (as always), so 4-branch is unlikely to be on before BugJam... still hoping though!
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It's all so exciting :smiley:
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Came home from work today to find an envelope of fuel fittings at the door, also got the cast abf manifold back from my welder
So me and a mate finished off bodging together the fuel, coolant and vacuum lines, and then turned the key :shocked:
Spent a while cranking it over before I remembered about the kill-switch I had wired into ECU/fuel-pump relays, doh! :lipsrsealed:
Then diagnosed that the ECU still wasn't powered up, altho ECU relay was kicking out a voltage.
Then found a couple of earths that must have been ripped off when we were maneuvering the manifold in :undecided: :lipsrsealed:
Then it got dark! Will resume tomorrow
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No firing yet :sad:
ECU relay is definitely kicking out 12v
ECU earths are definitely earthed
But the ECU does not seem to be 'turning on' with the ignition - can't find any voltages coming 'out' of the ECU at all :undecided:
The fuel pump relay is not switching - the wire from ECU to fuel pump relay is 0v, whether ignition is on or off.
Edit: I have spark...
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Is it immobiliser or non-immobiliser?
BE suffix on part number = immob.
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Oops, didn't see your reply there!
It is immobliser, I have the loop/box/key etc, key taped to loop of course!
Just pulled a lead, and I have spark... going to investigate the fuel pump relay now
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Think I've found the problem... I have pin86 of fuel pump relay connected to earth instead of ignition - Doh! Will report back soon
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Changed the rogue relay wire, could hear the pump priming for 2 secs with ignition, so that was a good sign. Engine fired for just 1 second on each attempt. So I taped my mk3 key to the loop at a different angle and...
She runs! :cool: :drool:
Problem is... it didn't wanna stop! :grin: Key out, relay trigger switch off (I used this mainly because I couldn't be bothered to find a working ignition live), battery killed.... must have still been running off the alternator's power!
Had to disconnect the fuel pump from the relay in the end! :grin:
Still, the sound of an ABF between 2 brick walls with just a bare manifold put a grin on my face :laugh:
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This is how I've wired up my 'ignition' switch... the +12v is direct to battery basically.
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/killswitch.jpg)
So switching it is the equivalent of turning the key to ignition.
Just been experimenting, and even putting pin86 to earth doesn't make the relay cut out.
Hmmmm.....
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i think ign switch is playing up, or the wiring isnt quite right. the coil should be on an ignition live feed so when you switch off the ignition there shouldn't be any spark!
ecu relay should be wired up like so:
86 - ign live
30 - live
85 - earth
87 - ecu pin 23
86A - ecu pin 9
black wires should generally be ignition live. ecu should see ign live to pin 38 as well. oh and the red wire to pin 7 should see a starter motor live. fuel pump relay pin 85 should be connected to pin 6 on the ecu, and thats about it for the ecu fusebox connections :)
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Hmmmm... have just been out to triple-check, and everything is as you say it should be. I have checked the switch with a multimeter, and it operates as it should.
From the ECU relay:
Disconnecting pin86 doesn't stop it.
Even earthing pn86 doesn't stop it.
Disconnecting pin87 DOES stop it.
All of my black ignition wires (coil etc) and fuel pump relay trigger tap their power off pin87.
I'm confused as to why the ECU relay doesn't cut power from pin87 when pin86 is disconnected! However, it DOES cut power when the engine isn't running, it's only when the engine IS running that this weird behaviour occurs.
My suspicions lie with pin86A (to ECU pin9). What exactly does this do? Maybe when the engine is running, this keeps the relay energised, regardless of pin86's status?
Of course I could install a heavy-duty killswitch in a main power cable, but that's not exactly the most elegant option!
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OK, think I've got it figured. The engine will turn off if I kill the switch AND disconnect pin86a.
Here's my theory:
The relay only needs +12v from either 86, 86a, or both to be energised.
When the engine is running, the ECU gives 86a +12v.
In a normal car, turning off at the key will put ECU pin38 to 0v.
The ECU senses that pin38 has lost power, so it puts 0v to 86a, thereby turning itself off.
Problem is, in my car, pin38 won't lose power until ECU relay is de-energised (and ECU relay won't de-energise until pin38 loses power)
So what I'll do is put pin38 to my switch, I'll let you know how it goes!
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the pin 86a on the relay is kinda an ign live 'bypass' thru the relay, it is connected internally to pin 86. so when 86 is live, so is 86a.
you dont really need 86a on the relay, you could splice pin 9 on the ecu direct to an ign live feed if you wanted. I have done it this way on a CE1 digifant ABF conversion, because there is no pin on the ecu socket for 86a on the CE1 fusebox.
if disconnecting pin 86 doesnt switch off the ecu relay, i think something isnt quite right with the relay wiring, or the relay is bust (you are using a 30 relay right?) what happens if you pull the relay out? does the relay click when the ignition is switched on and off?
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Right, my theory wasn't quite right... but I've sorted it now anyway.
Now that you say it, splicing pin9 direct to an ignition live would work - I wasn't sure how vital the pin86a is tho, so I've just wired another switch between pin9 and pin86a.
And hey, b!tches like switches, don't they? :smug:
Now just gotta wait for my 4-branch to be welded, swap the driveshafts, and tidy up a few bodged fuel/vacuum/coolant lines :cool:
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yeah in the long term just splice 86a wire to an ign live feed, should sort you out. then you could use a mk2 digifant 32 relay rather than 30 if you wanted/needed to
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After a couple of weeks of little to no work on the truck, I finally got my manifold back, so I spent all day today in the pissing rain bolting up the manifold, driveshafts, etc
Took her out for a spin :drool: :laugh:
:shocked: :shocked: I need f*cking bigger brakes :grin: :grin:
It's way too much fun :laugh:
Problem is, after a few outings, she now won't start :sad: Just makes a 1-second attempt to fire then gives up. I know this will scream 'IMMOBILISER' to most of you, but I can't see anything wrong. However, it's dark, so I will be surer tomorrow.
Possibly-related question: there is a small vacuum next to where the ISV plugs in that I found (hadn't blocked it off, altho didn't seem to affect driving at all!) What is the normal purpose for this? In fact the only vacuums I'm using are for brake servo and ECU as well as fuel-pressure regulator thingy, leaving a small vacuum and a large vacuum next to the throttle body blocked off in addition to the one by the ISV.
NB: I have no airbox or filter yet, just the main rubber pipe and ISV pipe left open (makes a good noise tho :rolleyes: )
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:shocked: :shocked: I need f*cking bigger brakes :grin: :grin:
Ahem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCQ7VLoY7bQ
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:shocked: :shocked: I need f*cking bigger brakes :grin: :grin:
Ahem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCQ7VLoY7bQ
:grin:
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:grin:
Well now that I have transport, I can get down to the scrappies on my next day off to rob an unsuspecting Vauxhall of its brakes! I also already have a mk2 22mm master+servo waiting to be picked up by me. :cool:
Someone I know will be cutting up a cabby soon, so I can rob the anti-rollbar brackets off that, and teamed up with my lower strutbrace (front a-arm mounts on mk1s wobble all over the place :sick:) I should be slightly safer :wink:
Oh... also a pair of new (well, 2nd-hand) tyres on the way to be fitted when I get tracking done.
Anyone got thoughts on the non-starting? I'm looking forward to putting the truck to use again :grin: http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150216275895438 (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150216275895438)
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Starting problems are sorted - got a proper look in the light and it was a blown fuse I had wired behind the immobiliser box.
I have a constant flashing oil light, I believe this may be due to my alternator wiring? In addition to the main charging strap, the mk1 loom has a blue and a red/black wire, but the mk3 only has the blue one. Anyone know how best to wire this up?