GolfGTIforum.co.uk

Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: RandomJord on 01 April 2010, 12:19

Title: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: RandomJord on 01 April 2010, 12:19
Well not quite no problem, ive been asking various tuners to shoot the sh!t with me about achieving this figure, but most seem to be completely uninterested in actually supplying any costs, probably think im a pie in the sky dreamer....little do they f**king know! so they can f**k themselves

So anyway, my cars with Autobarn at the mo an iv had a chat with the very helpful Roy (and craig) an hes up for building the engine..... all i have to do is start collecting parts!

Heres my list so far... and if you can think of anything iv missed or is obviously required then feel free to chip in


Garret GT2860RS
550cc Injectors
Forged Rods


Short list so far eh? i have actually attempted to do a bit of research over on ukmkivs and seatcupra, but everyone contradicts everyone else an my head f**king spins!

so yeah, help a brother out!
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: topher on 01 April 2010, 12:25
if you want 400+ from that turbo you'll need to rev high, so do something about the valve train because the standard setup isn't tough enough. If you're changing the rods anyway and have the cash it'd be rude not to get lower comp pistons too. Big intercooler too!

have you looked at the other bits like clutch/diff/brakes yet?

Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Horney on 01 April 2010, 12:26
I can't provide links right now but looking up the specs of the 1.8T in the reeves MKI might be a place to start. Also worth seeing what spec the VW Cup guys run their 1.8t's at.

The plan sounds immense mate.

Nick
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: RandomJord on 01 April 2010, 12:38
Brakes........Big.....id like to be able to stop!

Diff........ Mate works for Quaife/queef/whatever!

Clutch, yeah, new!

so turbo, i mught want to go up a bit?

an im lookinh up that mk1. its nuts!
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Hulmie on 01 April 2010, 12:38
As Topher said, Forged pistons are worth while and maybe get the chambers bored out abit of go with forged oversized pistons, you'll also want to upgrade Rod bolts, maybe have the crank reground and then all balanced up.

If you want 400bhp then i would ditch the GT2860RS and go bigger. Speak with the boys at Backdraft Motorsport, i know they have produced cars around this figure.

You'll also need a good exhaust manifold thats stronger enough to deal with the temperatures and not going to crack. Also look at upgrade the Inlet Manifold and Throttle body.

Depending how far you want to go then standalone management may be an option.

Fueling side of things will need to be changed, a good inline pump to supply the bigger injectors and keep them flowing.
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Hulmie on 01 April 2010, 12:42
Brakes........Big.....id like to be able to stop!

Diff........ Mate works for Quaife/queef/whatever!

Clutch, yeah, new!

so turbo, i mught want to go up a bit?

an im lookinh up that mk1. its nuts!

for 400bhp then you may want to go for a GT2871DC turbo kit.

Have a look at this spec on Backdrafts Audi TT race car http://www.backdraftmotorsport.com/backdraft-audi-tt-race-car.html

Also this is worth a read

http://www.backdraftmotorsport.com/shop-vag/bdm-1.8t-engine-internal-upgrade/flypage.tpl.html
&
http://www.backdraftmotorsport.com/shop-vag/1.8t-210/225-to-400-bhp-big-turbo-kit/flypage.tpl.html?pop=0
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: jv on 01 April 2010, 12:51
just buy this instead, pfft to 400:

http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/341646.aspx

then when you are bored with it, i'l swap you the rallye for it.
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Purely VAG on 01 April 2010, 12:56
That R32 is immense.
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: raptorSE on 01 April 2010, 13:03
When you hoping to have this done mate? Will be serious fun  :cool:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: RandomJord on 01 April 2010, 13:08
ASAP before i spend all my money on a boat and matching nautical themed pashmina afghans.

Like to have it done in time for GTI Festival at ze poddington
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: topher on 01 April 2010, 13:10
summer one i assume? 10 days is a bit of a challenge to get all those parts in for spring fest :laugh:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: RandomJord on 01 April 2010, 13:14
Obv, otherwise id have said spring fest!

and i would be bankrupt in 10 days if i did that as in that period i will be ........Completing on a new house, Completing on a New Warehouse/Office, paying the wage bill (f**king workers always wanting something for their hard work!) and finally buying sh!t loads of easter eggs
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Hulmie on 01 April 2010, 13:16
Obv, otherwise id have said spring fest!

and i would be bankrupt in 10 days if i did that as in that period i will be ........Completing on a new house, Completing on a New Warehouse/Office, paying the wage bill (f**king workers always wanting something for their hard work!) and finally buying sh!t loads of easter eggs

You sound like one happy Bunny  :laugh:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: RandomJord on 01 April 2010, 13:18
I will be when the easter eggs kick in! oh an i get to collect my car tommorow complete with uprated bushes allround, new brakes, coilovers and front an Rear ARB's....CORNER TIIIMMMEE!!!!
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: raptorSE on 01 April 2010, 13:25
Always nice spending money on new shiny bits. You need to start a project thread mate.  :cool:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: raptorSE on 01 April 2010, 14:21
just buy this instead, pfft to 400:

http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/341646.aspx

then when you are bored with it, i'l swap you the rallye for it.

I want it  :cool: :cool: :cool:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: tg1 on 01 April 2010, 14:26
what about a 3inch maf or bigger.

wont you need some kind of custom tip if you get a turbo with too big a inlet/outlet?

the inlet manifold looks a bit restrictive imo,

bigger tb?

heatwrap everything

better oil and water pump?

headwork

cams

Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: raptorSE on 01 April 2010, 14:30
Swirl pot upratted engine mounts  :cool:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Hulmie on 01 April 2010, 14:31
i think with the backdraft kit they upgrade the MAF housing to the bigger 3 inch MAF housing
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Mk1Macca on 01 April 2010, 14:37
You're going to need LOADS of stickers if you want to get up to that power figure. You might want to consider putting them down your doors like a shopping list.
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: RandomJord on 01 April 2010, 15:02
I'm sorry you do appear to have confused with the common rice burner, anyone who knows me knows I'm all go no show  :wink:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: tg1 on 01 April 2010, 15:12
most of the mk4's here have more stickers than my civic did  :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Purely VAG on 01 April 2010, 15:13
I think 400bhp is excessive for a FWD car, needs to be 4 motion = But that comes from someone with no experience driving a FWD car of that power or using an LSD so ....
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: RandomJord on 01 April 2010, 15:29
It's tempting to go 4wd but we shall see, I mean my LCR was 330 and that was fine
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Hulmie on 01 April 2010, 15:33
its all down to the person driving the car, what they want to achieve.

if you have a good allround set up i.e engine, drivetrain, brakes and suspension then i cant see it being a massive problem.

Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Phil_M on 01 April 2010, 15:43
Just out of interest whats your budget to acheive 400hp?
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Horney on 01 April 2010, 16:03
Obv, otherwise id have said spring fest!

and i would be bankrupt in 10 days if i did that as in that period i will be ........Completing on a new house, Completing on a New Warehouse/Office, paying the wage bill (f**king workers always wanting something for their hard work!) and finally buying sh!t loads of easter eggs

Both those are right up my street :grin:

nick
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: RandomJord on 01 April 2010, 17:27
Just out of interest whats your budget to acheive 400hp?

Enough  :wink:

but I'm guessing youre the chap who could give me a better idea of how to achieve it looking at your sig!
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Mk1Macca on 01 April 2010, 20:09
I'm sorry you do appear to have confused with the common rice burner, anyone who knows me knows I'm all go no show  :wink:

I'm just joking dude  :grin:

Good luck with the project.  :nerd:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: RandomJord on 01 April 2010, 20:18
Cheers, I get the feeling I'll need it!

First purchase made..... Rods!
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Phil_M on 01 April 2010, 20:26
For 400hp Budget around 6K+ for Engine and turbo conversion and then you can start on getting the power to the ground, Lsd, semi slicks, traction/launch control, strenghened gear box if your on 5 speed, Clutch and flywheel, suspension etc, decent brakes if you have not all ready got them.

You really need to speak to who ever is going to map the the car for fuel requirements.

Turbo's your looking at something like Owens IHI/Garret or Garret Gt3071R more choice of manifolds for the Garret, Both will be fairly laggy though.

Oh and last but not least a endless pit of money  :tongue:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: RandomJord on 01 April 2010, 20:47
Yeah man.....  Won't disclose what I'm prepared to spend on the forum incase any of the tuners I'm waiting on suddenly come up with a figure after Reading it!

But yeah, a few things I'm going to be quite lucky with, such as LSD, gearbox, clutch and the like, met some useful people purely by fluke which will help with budget considerably!
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: GOLF_STU on 01 April 2010, 23:16
Yeah man.....  Won't disclose what I'm prepared to spend on the forum incase any of the tuners I'm waiting on suddenly come up with a figure after Reading it!

But yeah, a few things I'm going to be quite lucky with, such as LSD, gearbox, clutch and the like, met some useful people purely by fluke which will help with budget considerably!


the lsd is definatly worth it its transformed the car and how the power gets put down  :cool: :grin:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: TJJONESVDUB on 01 April 2010, 23:29
Jordan as I sold you the car I want first dibs on the passenger seat lol I just showed the mrs the thread and she hates you as of now for doing this to her car lol sounds good though, please bare in mind my mrs is the last person you want to justifi spending money on a car it's ok for her she now drives a clk 320 so she doesnt need anymore power but watch when she comes crawling with the service bill! Anyway I can't wait and mite have to steal a few of your ideas for my golf that is still sat there. However 400bhp is far more I'm aiming for lol keep us updated.
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Hulmie on 02 April 2010, 10:59
Jord - this may be of interest to you mate. Engine already built to spec, just need to add the turbo, lsd etc

http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=296762

Phil_M - I think you need to get a project thread in the mk4 section so we can all have a good drool at ya motor
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: RandomJord on 02 April 2010, 12:17
Hulmie I could pretty much bum youright now!

An I agree, project thread from phil m please!
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: Hulmie on 02 April 2010, 12:25
Hulmie I could pretty much bum youright now!


Erm, No thank you. Just stick to saying thanks
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: AaronGS on 02 April 2010, 15:06
Dude have you spoken to Bill brockbank? His ibiza Cupra is running >500bhp and he has done several very successful big power conversions. Very decent chap and offers very good advise. He's not that far from you either.
http://seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=151723 (http://seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=151723)
http://www.badger-5.com/ (http://www.badger-5.com/)

Good luck with it mate. I can spin mine (350bhp) in third in the dry but its all down to driving it properly. 400bhp FWD will be a handful but will bring on big smiles! Good luck.
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........no problem!
Post by: RandomJord on 02 April 2010, 17:31
can you say.......MINE!









(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/randomjord/100_3794.jpg)
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: ashw831 on 02 April 2010, 18:59
i saw o that on edition and if only i had that ammount of money! congratulations matey that has had some PROPER work done to it!!! GOOD LUCK!!
Does it just need wiring loom and will fall in?
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: topher on 02 April 2010, 19:15
Good move jord :afro:

Saves a sh!t load of hassle and money.

Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: RandomJord on 02 April 2010, 19:33
Dude im getting it from lives in tamworth man, just sold a MK2 syncro running a similar engine, ever seen it about?
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: topher on 02 April 2010, 19:36
Yeah i know of dale, just down the road. He had mad coloured porsche fuchs wheels on his syncro the only time i saw it on the road. His matey who built the engine (i think) lives in the same village as me.
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: RandomJord on 02 April 2010, 19:41
As long as his mates not the village idiot im happy
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: Hulmie on 02 April 2010, 19:49
nice purchase mate. Big thanks to Hulmie.lol.

I'll keep an eye out for other bits mate.
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: RandomJord on 03 April 2010, 10:40
Well then......now its Just a Turbo, Genesis injectors, gearbox and a magic tree you need to look out for!
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: T_J_G on 03 April 2010, 10:53
What brakes you gone for?
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: Hulmie on 03 April 2010, 11:04
Well then......now its Just a Turbo, Genesis injectors, gearbox and a magic tree you need to look out for!

Genesis injectors from Backdraft Motorsport, no point buying second hand units.

Ive been struggling to find that magic tree myself mate.
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: RandomJord on 03 April 2010, 12:17
What brakes you gone for?

At the moment just EBC grooved an drilled with redstuff pads, but obviously that will all change when the engine goes in!
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: topher on 03 April 2010, 12:18
valves! thats the only thing not done to that engine iirc and pretty essential for reliable big power.
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: Hulmie on 03 April 2010, 18:20
wouldnt the head of a A6 have larger ports and valves already to withstand the 400bhp mark?
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: RandomJord on 03 April 2010, 19:29
Yeah it can handle up to about 450-500 but i might change it up, just incase i feel the need for more than that!
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: Horney on 09 April 2010, 12:30
I just soiled myself.

nick
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: Hulmie on 09 April 2010, 12:59
I just soiled myself.

nick

Bad curry last night?
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: Organisys on 09 April 2010, 13:13
Well then......now its Just a Turbo, Genesis injectors, gearbox and a magic tree you need to look out for!

Jord, I have an old magic tree you can have, it is now stale though..... Not sure if the fitment is correct for turbos though, it has been used on a normally aspirated car.  :undecided:

Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: jake on 09 April 2010, 13:32
This is an awesome thread, as not many people seem to be wanting to go down the power route with the mk4 these days! Of course you get people pissing around with KKK turbo,s but to honest this is only speaking around 250-260bhp.

Until i see the words "GT" and then a large number behind it, it does not interest me, so when i saw this thread with the words "gt28rs", it certainly grabbed my attention. I love to see people take on a massive challenge, and do it themselves to a level that they want it to.

so sorry to go against the flow here, but this thread does not deliver in my opinion. This was a pretty easy way out to a big project in my opinion. Buying an engine that has been made and crafted by someone else does not mean that you have made a car that has 450bhp, because you might aswell have gone out and bought a car thats 450bhp. People who own nissan sklyline GTRs dont take the credit for "making" there cars 500bhp, as they did not make it, they bought it!

So in my eyes i think this is in some ways "an easy way out" . I know some people will disagree with this opinion, but hey its a forum! I like debates. I am starting some major major major work on my car in this next 2 years! So major the car might not look like a mk4 anymore,and of course that includes engine! But this is something that i want to say " bloody hell, i actually did it, i have achieved what i set out to do" , and when this day comes i will be one proud  guy.

I know some people have written good decision on buying the engine as alot of time saved, alot of hassle saved, alot of money saved etc etc etc. But thats not what modifying is about! These things should take time, they should take hassle and of course money! As thats what tuning to me is about! I could have quite easily taken my car to the garage every time i wanted something doing, but no. whats the point! I would much rather lie on the floor of my garage covered in sh!t, through the night, working and resolving through a problem! As cars should be hassle! As when you resolve the issue, it's all worth while!

Sorry to ramble, but just thought i would give out my opinion on this. as to be honest if i had that engine! I would feel like i was cheating the project, myself and the car!
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: AlanD on 09 April 2010, 13:54
As you said Jake, everyone to their own but I've got to say, your talking crap :D :D

Its brilliant what he has done. So what he didn tune it up all himself and bought a new engine. . .? You are contradicting yourself as you have just got some NOS thrown in the back to give you more power . . . (I know you have done a bit more than just that, but same principle). If anything I would say buying NOS is "cheating".

This isnt meant as a personal attack, like you said its a forum, just saying what I think.
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: jake on 09 April 2010, 14:28
You have completely missed the point of what i was saying if you have thrown nos into the equation?

Nos is cheating? But i have never said at one point that it isn't? So saying im talking crap doesn't really come across to mature mate to be honest? Nos was something i wanted to experiment with, as we are were always doing turbo conversions through the night on a number of cars, such as saxo vts turbos etc etc. Nos was something i invested money into over a year ago! It was cheap ,quick power! I say cheap, yet i have spent of 2k on the system so i dont know how that is classed as cheap?

To be honest, I dont think im talking crap at all? And can you justify what is "brilliant" about what he has done? My dad owns a mercedes sl500, is he brilliant aswell as he has gone out and bought power? No he's not, Mercedes are brilliant for what they have engineered?

So please enlighten me on what is brilliant?

In regards to just throwing NOS in the back of my car? I have invested my life into that car, and i have invested plans that you have no knowledge about? The fact that i have a GT28rs and a GT35 sat in my front room next a set of rods and pistons? So dont come across with the i have taken a cheap route? This thread is not about me, or my car? This is about personal preference?

Nos to me, is not an answer to power! Its there to reduce the lag im going to have! The golf is going to be eventually touching around 500bhp! As thats the figure were going for! There is a budget of 25k going into the engine! so please dont talk to me about contradicting myself!

As ive said this thread is not about my car! This is my opinion...

Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 09 April 2010, 14:40
what if jord takes the engine apart, then puts it back together again. would his project be ok for you then?
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: Horney on 09 April 2010, 14:52
Trust me, if you had seen Jord use a spanner you'd understand why buying the engine is a good idea. The original plan I believe was to source the bits and then hand it all to Roy @ Autobahn to put it all together, this way the engine is just pore assembled. Not all of us are able or willing to tinker ourselves, Jord is one of those but certainly no less of a dubber because of it.

Nick
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: Steve_PD on 09 April 2010, 14:55
here's a picture of Alan a few minutes ago

(http://www.fish-killgore.com/tarpon_fishing_001-1a.jpg)


 :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: AlanD on 09 April 2010, 15:10
You brought into the fact he bought the engine, so I brought in the fact that you put NOS in yours, its valid point to make.

You said you said you would feel cheated by just buying an engine. Can you really not see the contradiction in what you say when you have thrown a sh!t load of NOS in your boot to give you more power? What you have in your living room is irrelevant.

Its brilliant because he has loads of power, simple as really (in my book anyway).

I take it your dad put his V8 into his SL then did he? Mercedes just supplied him a car with nothing under the bonnet?

Im trying not to come across as having a pop at you, but what your saying is making it hard not to.
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: jake on 09 April 2010, 15:17
your trying to come across as not having a pop at me? Mate 5 seconds ago you said i was talking crap?

What i have bought in regards to the turbos is completely relevant? As im agreeing with what your saying you tit? I have agreed nos is cheating? I have said if you read back, i have never said it isn't?

And the comment regarding the mercedes does not seem to make sense? I think you should reword that?

And if its coming down to the point of whose having a pop at who! I have come out with my own personal opinion! I have not critiisized him or his car! If anything i have said fantastic thread etc etc. Just in my opinion i would have done it differently!  People are allowed to have a diference of opinion!

For example i feel people who drink drive should never be allowed on the road again! but hey, just my opinion! Im sure its not yours!  :wink:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: AlanD on 09 April 2010, 15:25
If anything i have said fantastic thread

but this thread does not deliver in my opinion. 

Im not going to waste any more space on this thread now as its abouts Jords project.

We are trying to have a chat about what our views are on modding and you throw your toys out the pram and start coming out with personal attacks like that. . . . ? Nice one :rolleyes:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: Omega on 09 April 2010, 15:29
Are you american jake? The amount of question marks you used was huge!

Didnt alan get stopped the day after?, as in his blood level was higher than the legal limit? but he wasnt actually under the influence? i.e. drunk?
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: JC on 09 April 2010, 15:34
alan is still a tw4t  :wink:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: jake on 09 April 2010, 15:35
No... now your throwing your toys out the pram? As you have now noticed the thread has gone away from what the original post was about?
I simply passed comment? Then apparently im chatting crap? And my car somehow comes into the equation?

I am simply stating the differences of opinion! My little sister died when she 4 as a guy in a car hit her when he was drunk! So you know what omega, i could not give 2 hoots if he was drunk a week later and his blood was high, or if he was smashed that night! If i saw that guy again i would literally rip his kneck off his shoulders! It wounded me and is something that has taken me a long time to get over!

Drink driving is drink driving! And if i catch anyone doing it! You know what, i will give them my f**kin opinion! As this will live with me for the rest of my life! so having some nob ed say to me im chatting crap? who doesnt even have his own perspectives in the right place? Really bugs me? This started as an opinion? i.e. i passed my opinion on the whole engine situation, now im being told i have thrown my toys out the pram.

Personal attack this is not! You just need to realise your actions actually effect some people more than you know!!!
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: AlanD on 09 April 2010, 15:49
alan is still a tw4t  :wink:

Careful, you NEED my company from Didcot to Bristol, dont tempt me :D

Jake, sorry to hear that story about your sister :(
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: Steve_PD on 09 April 2010, 16:56
Jake I hope that after reading this your building your own engine and not buying parts then handing it all over to a tuning company?
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 09 April 2010, 17:16
This is an awesome thread, as not many people seem to be wanting to go down the power route with the mk4 these days! Of course you get people pissing around with KKK turbo,s but to honest this is only speaking around 250-260bhp.

Until i see the words "GT" and then a large number behind it, it does not interest me, so when i saw this thread with the words "gt28rs", it certainly grabbed my attention. I love to see people take on a massive challenge, and do it themselves to a level that they want it to.

so sorry to go against the flow here, but this thread does not deliver in my opinion. This was a pretty easy way out to a big project in my opinion. Buying an engine that has been made and crafted by someone else does not mean that you have made a car that has 450bhp, because you might aswell have gone out and bought a car thats 450bhp. People who own nissan sklyline GTRs dont take the credit for "making" there cars 500bhp, as they did not make it, they bought it!

So in my eyes i think this is in some ways "an easy way out" . I know some people will disagree with this opinion, but hey its a forum! I like debates. I am starting some major major major work on my car in this next 2 years! So major the car might not look like a mk4 anymore,and of course that includes engine! But this is something that i want to say " bloody hell, i actually did it, i have achieved what i set out to do" , and when this day comes i will be one proud  guy.

I know some people have written good decision on buying the engine as alot of time saved, alot of hassle saved, alot of money saved etc etc etc. But thats not what modifying is about! These things should take time, they should take hassle and of course money! As thats what tuning to me is about! I could have quite easily taken my car to the garage every time i wanted something doing, but no. whats the point! I would much rather lie on the floor of my garage covered in sh!t, through the night, working and resolving through a problem! As cars should be hassle! As when you resolve the issue, it's all worth while!

Sorry to ramble, but just thought i would give out my opinion on this. as to be honest if i had that engine! I would feel like i was cheating the project, myself and the car!


Jake, you went ballistic when some people slated YOU for taking the easy way out to 250+ (or whatever it was) bhp on YOUR car by installing the NOS, so why try & get somebody else's goat up by saying they're taking the easy way out??  :undecided:

I couldn't care how people get to the awesome car stage (although, yes, you would respect a full DIY job, more), just as long as they're happy with the end result, that's what counts, in my opinion.  ;)

Surely, you have to acknowledge that not everybody has the same mechanical knowledge, time, work space etc. as yourself??  ;)  :afro:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: tg1 on 09 April 2010, 18:52
well just to throw my 2p in

i'd build a engine, spray it, retrim it and fit all the gubbins but by rough estimation, the tools and space required to do so would outweigh the benefits, sorry jake but fudge spending 25k on a golf, especially when you factor in, tools, space, time, learning new skills on top. unless you're blessed and have all of these already. i guess you're lots richer than me, live on your own and don't have anything better to spend it on. and have enough tools and what not to do it (i'm a jealous fudge if you can answer yes to all the above)

this isn't a dig at you personally jake, because i'd do bad bad things to own your car and respect the work that has gone into it, which i guess is lots. but i doubt i'll ever take a project on as big as yours till after the loan for the last one is paid off

and to want to build an engine for more than buying one worth more than you pay for it, built by a dude who apparently knows his stuff quite well. guess you must be bad at maths  :kiss: granted the satisfaction is there but you can always go have a tommy tank with all the time you've got spare from not having to build an engine

but either way, sure you'll both have pretty fancy cars to drool over at the end of it, one way or another. it takes all sorts, if people dont pay the tuning shops, who'll develop the parts and procedures for tuning. not everyone has a lathe, welding gear etc.

and nos isn't cheating. there isn't rules to tuning really

Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: richw911 on 09 April 2010, 19:11
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t318/richw911/forum/Thread-I_like_where_this_thread_is_.jpg)

Can we get back on topic?

(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp359/chuffs69/popcorn.gif)
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: JC on 09 April 2010, 19:18
(http://www.sspvinyl.com/images/builtnotbought_popup.jpg)


 :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:


but in fairness, as horney said, Jord is doing it the RIGHT way knowing his Meckeknik skillz  :wink:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: inivid on 09 April 2010, 20:09
My input for 400bhp: 

Opt for no less than a GT3071r 63ar and 830cc injectors.  I'm not so familiar with UK tuners, as I haven't lived in Europe long.  However, Eurodyne (from Canada) has been having excellent success in North America, with their Maestro tuning suite program.

VW was screwy with how many different cylinder heads they released for the 1.8T over the years, AGU and AEB cylinder heads being the only "large-port" cylinder heads.  I'm actually looking for one of the two to further progress with my own build.  For a turbo that pushes as much as the GT3071r, I strongly recommend obtaining one of the larger cylinder heads, if you do not already have one.  In conjunction with the cylinder head, I also strongly recommend a SEM intake manifold with 70mm throttle-body, as it is proper in supporting the flow of the GT3071r.

The factory crank is sturdy enough.  No worries about breaking that.  Connecting rods, on the other hand, are essential and easy to swap out...as well as pistons.  To sum it up:  drop the oil pan, remove the cylinder head, undo the connecting rod fasteners, push the piston and connecting rods up through the top of the block, carefully re-hone the cylinder walls, properly gap the piston rings, assemble new rods and pistons, drop assembled units down into the cylinders, check clearances and reassemble the motor.  It's more in-depth than that, but it's incredibly easy.  It only requires attention to detail.

Regarding the transmission, performance differentials are awesome and I love my Quaife ATB, but it's not essential.  Drive-shafts and clutches, on the other hand, will fail if you're consistently giving it the beans.

Earlier, Bill, from Badger 5 was mentioned.  He's a good guy and knows a thing or two.

In all, I'm interested to see how your project goes. 



Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: jake on 09 April 2010, 21:15
Now this is what i call a debate! This to me is one of the best discussions there has been on this forum in months!

Ivor nice to hear from you mate, i agree with everything that your saying! But again missing my point to a degree. I am not slating the engine by the guy who built it , as i have read up on alot of his stuff before and he really does know his sh!t! Nor am i slating the guy whose bought it!

As the post a few threads upwards suggests, its just my mind set. Built not bought! Thats just me! I am not slating that this guy has gone out and bought it as hes spent alot of money there! And it will perform like a monster! I am just simply stating in my eyes i dont see that as a project! Its more of a good buy if you will.

I love how people keep bringing up NOS. Yet to be honest i dont even think highly of NOS, it was a test, an experiment. And it also very very rarely been done a mk4 golf! which again is why i did it! To get the mk4's out there! The car got a feature in Banzai just for having it!

But im not trying to annoy Jord with my threads. if anything compliment him on a superb buy! Its just if you imagine the build thread for this.it would be 'bought the engine', 'fitted the engine' and thats it!

But to me , i like to see the whole lot! Late nights working out why thats not working, getting parts in you thought you would never need! getting 5 mates to help you get the gearbox in, bottom end out! to me thats motorsport! but i stress! that is me! It might not be everyone!

Jake
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: RandomJord on 09 April 2010, 21:31
Well that escalated quickly didn't it?  :laugh:



Anyway jake, yeah, I take inboard what you're saying, yes we are going about things very differently.
If I had the knowledge I'd love to build a car from ground up, but as anyone who has witnessed me trying to change a bulb will tell you, that aint gonna happen! Also I don't have the time to do any of that, I'm running my own business, looking after my family and extended family which leaves bugger all time for much. 

So I will pay professionals to do it, I will buy parts and give them to autobarn, if someone is selling a fully specced out engine which will save me ££££ il buy it. All this will lead to the same end result you're aiming for,

Il be hooning it about with a massive smile on my face!

Oh an there's a bit more going into it than the engine.... But il keep that under my hat (sorry I didn't knit it) for now
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: kcolevol on 09 April 2010, 21:59
Imagine if i said that your all wrong and that the golf should just be left as its standard self? lol  :sick:
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: BaV on 09 April 2010, 22:02
Havent read all the last few posts but all i can say is Jord you have 100% made the right choice. 

Unless you are hand crafting your rods and putting every nut and bolt together yourself you have never built you own engine so to speak so what is the point in spending un needed money on buying parts brand new and getting them all put into your engine ect when you could have bought the engine you have.

Keep this nice and updated mate, need my MK4 power fix now mine has gone!
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: Steve_PD on 09 April 2010, 22:15
I agree with Bav

lol at the new topic title
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: jamie16v on 09 April 2010, 22:19
not sure if i am going off subject here, but i read somewhere that the 2.0 fsi crank will fit into the 1.8t block as long as you press on the oil pump gear. this will take you up to 2008cc.. im not sure what else you need for this set up though.. perhaps a rebore and bigger pistons for more im not sure. but with all the other gubbins im sure this will make a huge benifit..  only thing is i cant remember where i heared it.. im sure it was some american company selling a stoker kit for the 1.8t but i think they gave too much info away whoever they were.. perhaps i am doing the same..lol  :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: inivid on 09 April 2010, 22:31
not sure if i am going off subject here, but i read somewhere that the 2.0 fsi crank will fit into the 1.8t block as long as you press on the oil pump gear. this will take you up to 2008cc.. im not sure what else you need for this set up though.. perhaps a rebore and bigger pistons for more im not sure. but with all the other gubbins im sure this will make a huge benifit..  only thing is i cant remember where i heared it.. im sure it was some american company selling a stoker kit for the 1.8t but i think they gave too much info away whoever they were.. perhaps i am doing the same..lol  :lipsrsealed:

You are correct. However, you will need different specification pistons and connecting rods.  Usually, when stroking the 1.8T, a re-bore of the block is involved.  Low-end torques are vastly improved, but the most notable improvement is power and torque "out" of boost; meaning, accelerating when not at full boost.

American companies, 034 Motorsport and INA Engineering both sell "stroker" kits that utilize the FSI crank.  For more info, head over to www.vwvortex.com and search the 1.8t technical forum archives for the keyword "stroker". 
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: Horney on 09 April 2010, 22:33
You said stroker, ha ha.

nick
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: inivid on 09 April 2010, 22:35
lol @ your username.  :grin: 
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: Horney on 09 April 2010, 22:37
It's been a blessing and a curse. :grin:

Nick
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: jamie16v on 09 April 2010, 22:55
You said stroker, ha ha.

nick
lmao..  you sounded yank yourself then.. bit like nelson off simpsons..lol
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: inivid on 09 April 2010, 23:00
Forgive my American English.  I'm sure it will go away with time.  I just moved, mind you. 
Thanks to Jeremy Clarkson, I had a slightly better understanding of the English language, before I moved.  lol   ....I'll learn.   :wink:
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: jamie16v on 09 April 2010, 23:16
don`t worry yourself mate, i`m sure it wasnt a dig at you.. perhaps its the way i introduced nelson into it.. my bad really...
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 10 April 2010, 12:01
Now this is what i call a debate! This to me is one of the best discussions there has been on this forum in months!

Ivor nice to hear from you mate, i agree with everything that your saying! But again missing my point to a degree. I am not slating the engine by the guy who built it , as i have read up on alot of his stuff before and he really does know his sh!t! Nor am i slating the guy whose bought it!

As the post a few threads upwards suggests, its just my mind set. Built not bought! Thats just me! I am not slating that this guy has gone out and bought it as hes spent alot of money there! And it will perform like a monster! I am just simply stating in my eyes i dont see that as a project! Its more of a good buy if you will.

I love how people keep bringing up NOS. Yet to be honest i dont even think highly of NOS, it was a test, an experiment. And it also very very rarely been done a mk4 golf! which again is why i did it! To get the mk4's out there! The car got a feature in Banzai just for having it!

But im not trying to annoy Jord with my threads. if anything compliment him on a superb buy! Its just if you imagine the build thread for this.it would be 'bought the engine', 'fitted the engine' and thats it!

But to me , i like to see the whole lot! Late nights working out why thats not working, getting parts in you thought you would never need! getting 5 mates to help you get the gearbox in, bottom end out! to me thats motorsport! but i stress! that is me! It might not be everyone!

Jake


Fair enough. :afro:
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 10 April 2010, 12:03
Imagine if i said that your all wrong and that the golf should just be left as its standard self? lol  :sick:


Then with a signature like that, you've got a lot of explaining to do!  :laugh:
Title: Re: 400bhp? ...........just got a sh!t load closer....pg4
Post by: RandomJord on 10 April 2010, 12:06

1. I love to see people take on a massive challenge, and do it themselves to a level that they want it to.

2. this thread does not deliver in my opinion. This was a pretty easy way out to a big project in my opinion. Buying an engine that has been made and crafted by someone else does not mean that you have made a car that has 450bhp, because you might aswell have gone out and bought a car thats 450bhp.

3. People who own nissan sklyline GTRs dont take the credit for "making" there cars 500bhp, as they did not make it, they bought it!

4. But this is something that i want to say " bloody hell, i actually did it, i have achieved what i set out to do" , and when this day comes i will be one proud  guy.

5. I know some people have written good decision on buying the engine as alot of time saved, alot of hassle saved, alot of money saved etc etc etc. But thats not what modifying is about! These things should take time, they should take hassle and of course money! As thats what tuning to me is about!

6. Sorry to ramble, but just thought i would give out my opinion on this. as to be honest if i had that engine! I would feel like i was cheating the project, myself and the car!

f**k, just read back through this thread and have seen that modgod has writtend new rules on tuning....so heres a response

1. Cheers

2. Well your opinions wrong, clearly you have unrealistic expectations of the thread, i say in the first post that tuners will do all the work.

3. Thats because they came out the factory that way, this car will only be running more than that because i have decided i want it to, i want a very powerful mk4 golf gti to drive and enjoy. show me a factory built 450 bhp mk4......

4. Me to, it will probably just come sooner

5. Didnt realise there are rules in tuning, please forward me a PDF of the guidelines.

6. Yeah i definately wont have that feeling because im setting out to do something ive wanted to do for a long time in a way that means i can achieve that with the constraints i have.


To be honest dude, i know its an opinion, but it really does seem to me like you just want to piss on my chips an thats not on at all. Im a dubber, you are too, i dont judge anyone on how their cars built, an neither do most people on here, i just like to see an enjoy the end product, however it came to be.

Anyway cheers to everyone else for the encouraging words, take turns razzing it up the strip soon!



Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: JC on 10 April 2010, 12:09
It's been a blessing and a curse. :grin:

Nick

espeically when you tell you wife

I am off to meet horny in a layby at 7am  :grin:
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: RandomJord on 10 April 2010, 12:13
Imagine if i said that your all wrong and that the golf should just be left as its standard self? lol  :sick:


Then with a signature like that, you've got a lot of explaining to do!  :laugh:

 :laugh: few accusations of hypocrocy might fly about!
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: Hulmie on 10 April 2010, 12:56
pmsl at this thread. Jord no one is interested in what other people think. Keep up the good work.

Just to through a spanner in the works. Unless you are a mechanic, engineer and a whole load of other things the no one will ever build there own car, it will always have the aspect of being bought somewhere in there. So will the people just coming in here to voice there opinions and think there better than everyone else knob off. Who gives a tosh what you think.

This is Jord's thread, he is aiming for something and can go about it which way he wants.
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: inivid on 10 April 2010, 13:37
Enough pissing about.

How about an update on the build or parts-shopping?
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: RandomJord on 10 April 2010, 14:14
Enough pissing about.

How about an update on the build or parts-shopping?

yep, this week... Quaife stuff!
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: inivid on 10 April 2010, 14:30
You're going to love it!  I love mine!   :cool:
Title: Re: 450+ ...........The eaaaasssy way
Post by: T_J_G on 10 April 2010, 20:47
Hope this all goes to plan Jord, should be a cracking car!