GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: leigh_harty on 29 March 2010, 21:31
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My 16v is my daily driver and my commute it 95% carriage way and motorway so the traffic light issue/kangaroo'in isn't that much of a concern. So I'm going for safe performance...
1, what's a safe weight to be taken down to?
2, any special requirements when fitting? Longer or shorter bolts? Spacers needed? Or just a simple swap around.
3, the place I'm taking the flywheel too are recommended by awesome gti so I presume they know what there doin, but what parts of the flywheel get butchered?
4, I'm putting a new crank seal in and a new oem clutch and again, this should just be replaced as normal and fit correctly to fly?
I've read up about the changed affect in inertia, how does everyone else rate this mod?
I'm all about learning new things so please share your wisdom people.
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1. About 5kgs is a safe weight for the 02A lightenend flywheel.
2. It would be wise to fit new VW flywheel bolts and these come with thread lock on them. Only a couple of quid.
3. Read this club gti thread, he did mine and has done lots of others
http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=200146 (http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=200146)
4. Yes the standard clutch fits exactly as it does on a standard flywheel.
I've not noticed any traffic light issue / kangaroo in mine. The only issue I've noticed is that the tickover is slightly higher. If you have aircon it will get higher still with the aircon on.
Pick up is a lot quicker and really noticeable in first and second, engine braking is less pronounced with the lightened flywheel but then again you should be using your brakes for that.
I would say this has been the most noticeable performance mod I've made to my car.
Paul
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I've not noticed any traffic light issue / kangaroo in mine. The only issue I've noticed is that the tickover is slightly higher. If you have aircon it will get higher still with the aircon on.
You can cut the wire from the switch to the ECU that tells the ECU to select a higher idle speed - then the idle is spot on with a light flywheel. :smiley:
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I've not noticed any traffic light issue / kangaroo in mine. The only issue I've noticed is that the tickover is slightly higher. If you have aircon it will get higher still with the aircon on.
You can cut the wire from the switch to the ECU that tells the ECU to select a higher idle speed - then the idle is spot on with a light flywheel. :smiley:
I have aircon but never on.... and cutting wires? me or the engine will end up dead!
Cheers guys :smiley:
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light flywheel for a road car, i wouldnt bother with the hassel IMO.
if the engine is already out then yeh maybe.
and i was always told you shouldnt skim a standard flywheel as they are cast and the material inside might not be brilliant.
also are you going to get it all ballanced right with the crank once skimmed. as i dont fancy a 5kg lump on metal spinning at 6k and wobbling its way off. or tearing its way off.
my mate saw a westerfield chopping in half by a exiting flywheel
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gearbox coming off. replacing the crankseal so im putting a new clutch in a lightened flywheel.... ank 6k?... pffft i carry on till 7k :wink:
thanks for your concern though :kiss:
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and i was always told you shouldnt skim a standard flywheel as they are cast and the material inside might not be brilliant.
Why? Because the cast iron may be liquid inside still?
The flywheel is machined cast iron...so the inside will be just the same as the bit that VW has already machined.
It's perfectly fine to lighten the flywheel - as long as you don't go silly.
also are you going to get it all ballanced right with the crank once skimmed. as i dont fancy a 5kg lump on metal spinning at 6k and wobbling its way off. or tearing its way off.
Do you think VW balance the crank along with the flywheel?
No.
You balance the flywheel...and you are good to go.
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Hotgolf who lightened and balanced mine said he checked a few standard flywheels and they all were well out of balance.
I can't see why you wouldn't bother on a road car.
I presume you are worried about flaws in poor castings but if the casting you are lightening is crap then its just as likely to fail before it is lightened.
Paul
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Hotgolf who lightened and balanced mine said he checked a few standard flywheels and they all were well out of balance.
He also says that every ABF flywheel he's looked at have the drillings in the same place...which means they aren't dynamically balanced by VW - no surprise there, neither are the cranks.
So if the standard weight flywheel isn't too well balanced, then lightening one and not balancing that wouldn't be any worse, and lightening one and then balancing it would make it better.
I can't see why you wouldn't bother on a road car.
Unless it was for traffic manners...or for someone who has no idea how to modulate a throttle and clutch?
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Nothing wrong with a lightened flywheel if done correctly. :afro:
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I really wanna get mine done!
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I really wanna get mine done!
If I were you, I'd get another flywheel, get it lightened and stick it in when you have the engine out....
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You can have the one I'm taking out of mine for pennies? My replacement just arrived so even have packaging ready.
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do you still have flywheel for sale mate?
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I really wanna get mine done!
If I were you, I'd get another flywheel, get it lightened and stick it in when you have the engine out....
It's an idea dude, but DH< danny_p and myself want to get as much time as possible making sure the engine will be reliable and well converted, rather than spending time separating the box and swapping bits over.
Will do it when the box is off next though!
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do you still have flywheel for sale mate?
Its coming out of the car tomorrow. featherwieght one going in along with a new clutch and crank seal... no more bloody oil top ups!
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It's an idea dude, but DH< danny_p and myself want to get as much time as possible making sure the engine will be reliable and well converted, rather than spending time separating the box and swapping bits over.
Will do it when the box is off next though!
Do it while the motor and 'box are out.
Might be worth getting a crank seal and doing that too.
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Definately easier to do with the engine out of the car.
Do it before you put it in and you won't regret it.
Paul
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UPDATE:
Flywheel in with no probs - mates vr doesnt lose me as much as he used to up until im in 4th then his car just keeps pulling far better. DEFINATE upgrade, wish i had a longer 1st and 2nd gear
Clutch feels awesome, wasnt exactly heavy before but now just feather light.
Crank oil seal - never needed doing, turns out it was the sump gasket just beneath. So i have to put up with a semi - bad leak for another week, sump gasket easy enough to do though
Cost me £52.88 to lighten and balance the flywheel to just over 6kilo. Idles spot on hot or cold.
Need to get some cams/ or just the 1.. undecided yet just need do more research. Either way watch this space :cool:
Leigh
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I was wondering if you or someone could explain where im going wrong. you say that the flywheel has been taken down to 6kg but one on ebay is being sold as 1.2lbs which is 0.5kg so is this one to be avoided? is there a minimum weight of 5-6kgs or is that if you drill an OEM part? confused? I fookin am. :laugh:
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It's an idea dude, but DH< danny_p and myself want to get as much time as possible making sure the engine will be reliable and well converted, rather than spending time separating the box and swapping bits over.
Will do it when the box is off next though!
Do it while the motor and 'box are out.
Might be worth getting a crank seal and doing that too.
Still got to buy oil, filter, coolant, PAS fluid, brake fluid and the rear axle bushes. Wish I could do the flywheel, but I just don't have the £52 needed to lighten it or whatever else to buy another one.
If I manage to find money I'll let you know :smiley:
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I was wondering if you or someone could explain where im going wrong. you say that the flywheel has been taken down to 6kg but one on ebay is being sold as 1.2lbs which is 0.5kg so is this one to be avoided? is there a minimum weight of 5-6kgs or is that if you drill an OEM part? confused? I fookin am. :laugh:
Origional flywheel in the mk3 16v weighs in around 9-10 kilos. Im not sure on the exact weight. What flywheel you been looking at?
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I was wondering if you or someone could explain where im going wrong. you say that the flywheel has been taken down to 6kg but one on ebay is being sold as 1.2lbs which is 0.5kg so is this one to be avoided? is there a minimum weight of 5-6kgs or is that if you drill an OEM part? confused? I fookin am. :laugh:
Origional flywheel in the mk3 16v weighs in around 9-10 kilos. Im not sure on the exact weight. What flywheel you been looking at?
Lightened Fly wheel on ebay 350332871891
Mine is an 8v would this be OK
Cheers
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[/quote]
Lightened Fly wheel on ebay 350332871891
Mine is an 8v would this be OK
Cheers
[/quote]
Thats not a flywheel pal, its a pulley wheel.
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Lightened Fly wheel on ebay 350332871891
Mine is an 8v would this be OK
Cheers
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Thats not a flywheel pal, its a pulley wheel.
[/quote]
Yep that goes where your belts are at the other end of the engine
Flywheel has a ring of teeth round it to help you look for one :smiley:
Leigh
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D'oh, dumbass.. Thanks for the 101.
So would it be a good replacment part for what it is or is it all show and no go?
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Hmm yeah im interested to hear on whether those lightened pulley wheels are worthwhile as well seeing as il be changing my belts soon anyway.
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in theory, they should be a decent mod. They reduce momentum, so more response, like lightening a flywheel, but obviously not as dramatic!
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Origional flywheel in the mk3 16v weighs in around 9-10 kilos. Im not sure on the exact weight. What flywheel you been looking at?
9.65 kg on my scales.
You can go down to approx 6kg with no issues - any more and you really have to know what you are doing.
I have one in now at about 6.5kg...but a very special one waiting to go in - at 5.1kg.
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Origional flywheel in the mk3 16v weighs in around 9-10 kilos. Im not sure on the exact weight. What flywheel you been looking at?
9.65 kg on my scales.
You can go down to approx 6kg with no issues - any more and you really have to know what you are doing.
I have one in now at about 6.5kg...but a very special one waiting to go in - at 5.1kg.
Mines a few grams over 6kilo. no problems for me just my mates vr who im slowly catching :evil:
Just have to do some mega research into cams now, think ill leave the exhaust cam as there known not to work well with the inlet cam?
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Origional flywheel in the mk3 16v weighs in around 9-10 kilos. Im not sure on the exact weight. What flywheel you been looking at?
9.65 kg on my scales.
You can go down to approx 6kg with no issues - any more and you really have to know what you are doing.
I have one in now at about 6.5kg...but a very special one waiting to go in - at 5.1kg.
The one I put in mine weighs a tad over 5kgs and runs fine.
Paul
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Origional flywheel in the mk3 16v weighs in around 9-10 kilos. Im not sure on the exact weight. What flywheel you been looking at?
9.65 kg on my scales.
You can go down to approx 6kg with no issues - any more and you really have to know what you are doing.
I have one in now at about 6.5kg...but a very special one waiting to go in - at 5.1kg.
Why not change the 3.68 final drive for a 3.94 and then you can at least match your friends VR? Glen will confirm as I've yet to finish my box... almost there....
Mines a few grams over 6kilo. no problems for me just my mates vr who im slowly catching :evil:
Just have to do some mega research into cams now, think ill leave the exhaust cam as there known not to work well with the inlet cam?
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Is it a difficult job to get out the flywheel with the engine still in, or is it an engine out job. This sounds like a mod i want to do, but ill never have a reason to take out the engine, unless just for the sake of it and to learn etc. What type of flywheel will i have 020 or 02a? i have an 88 gti 16v, but with a 9a bottem end.?
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Is it a difficult job to get out the flywheel with the engine still in, or is it an engine out job. This sounds like a mod i want to do, but ill never have a reason to take out the engine, unless just for the sake of it and to learn etc. What type of flywheel will i have 020 or 02a? i have an 88 gti 16v, but with a 9a bottem end.?
Its not an engine out job, but it is a gearbox off job. Should be the 020 rod change box.
Paul
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What's the traffic light issue?
I can kind of guess what Kangarooing is.
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apparently it was sposed to be jerky in traffic or at lights.. but i had not 1 running issue only a good outcome :smiley:
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So... does a lightened flywheel reduce torque?
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Ok that's maybe something i can do myself then, reading through hotgolf's thread no one had any drop in torque.
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worth doin 2 a vr dude????
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worth doin 2 a vr dude????
Yup.
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worth doin 2 a vr dude????
Yup.
Yes, makes a lot of difference.
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By kangerooing what do people mean? when its out of gear or when on take off?
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i presume it means there isnt much feel to the clutch on take of and you may occur 'jerkyness'
..im welcome to be corrected though.
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ok i know im digging up an old topic. but i was thikning the same! but can anyone recommend me any places in birmingham that i can take 1 to? mine is the 8v gti mk3 AGG engine code
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bump :undecided:
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Hotgolf on CGTI
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that means posting my flywheel to??
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Won't cost much if you use parcel2go.
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or Interparcel. Both really cheap.
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found a guy in birm area auto sprint. :smiley: gna go down tommorrow and see what he says.
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Look in yellow pages for a machine shop, they should not charge a lot.
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well auto print got back intouch and said that he needs the rank shaft and the fly wheel to balance it properly. is it realy worth it?
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You can do it without pulling the crankshaft out as well, obviously if money isn't a problem or you're about rebuild the lower end of your engine then this route will be better but not essential.
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well the guy says that he cant do it without the crank and to balance both its £150 is that expensive?
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well the guy says that he cant do it without the crank and to balance both its £150 is that expensive?
Utter crap.
Flywheels and cranks are balanced independantly from the factory...you can buy either individually from VW.
You only need the flywheel done if you aren't planning on going much over 7500 RPM.
I have a standard bottom end, and lightened flywheel, and it'll spin at 7600 all day, perfectly happily.
Join Club GTI, and use Hotgolf...he's the man.
Is yours a 8v or 16v?
I have a spare lightened and balanced 16v (O2A) flywheel sat in my garage doing nothing.
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How much do you want for the flywheel, Glen?
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How much do you want for the flywheel, Glen?
Dunno. It's doing nothing wrapped in a bin bag, on a shelf in my garage!
You interested? :smiley:
It's 02A for a 16v, and I ran it for 5 years or so before getting a special ultra-light hotgolf special recently, to go with my Gemini 'box.
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mine is the 8v gti so that aint good to me. What if i got a crankshaft and flywheel of next engine and got them both lightened and then stuck it on my car? Will i need anything else like bearings and all that? Also how much diffrence will it make? Only reason is im asking is that my gearbox is packed in and got a new1 (cheers andy) so as i will be taking the gbox of i thought i might aswel get the flywheel done then my mate said get the crank done aswell.
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As said before mate you dont need to balance both together, try someone else. Its worth doing if the box is out i had one on my Vectra years ago, 15kg down to 7.5kg or 5kg cant remember exactly and was bought off the shelf from courtney so it wasnt balanced with the crank.
It made a noticeable difference, revved so much more freely and quicker.
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ok neil.
say i get fly wheel lightened right? what if i get both lightened. what will the diffrence be between them?
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As said before mate you dont need to balance both together, try someone else. Its worth doing if the box is out i had one on my Vectra years ago, 15kg down to 7.5kg or 5kg cant remember exactly and was bought off the shelf from courtney so it wasnt balanced with the crank.
It made a noticeable difference, revved so much more freely and quicker.
He was asking what the difference would be if he had the crank done too. basically it's just the same as lightening the flywheel. it will be even more responsive.
But to see the real gains of lighten flywheel and crank you need the head to be able to rev 7500+rpm.
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Im not sure as i only had the flywheel. But ask yourself this, is it worth the expence of a bottom end rebuild for a lightend crank if you may not notice any difference, when you only need to change the gearbox?
I could see the point if you were rebuilding to a high spec, but i wouldnt bother if your not.
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ok neil.
say i get fly wheel lightened right? what if i get both lightened. what will the diffrence be between them?
On an 8v, with an otherwise standard engine, lightening the crank will be a waste of time and money, in my view.
The flywheel you will notice...the crank, you won't.
Lightened and balalnced cranks are great for high revving, high CR 16vs going to 8500 RPM (or mental spec 8vs)...not 8vs revving to 6500 RPM. No point.
It's a decent level of re-build to have the crank down...for little or no gain on an otherwise standard engine.
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ok il get the fly wheel done only then as i thought that there might be a bigger diffrence in having the crank done too. thing is that i dont want to be sendng the flywheel away as i rather have it done locally, but i dont know what to look for on google :huh:
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ok il get the fly wheel done only then as i thought that there might be a bigger diffrence in having the crank done too. thing is that i dont want to be sendng the flywheel away as i rather have it done locally, but i dont know what to look for on google :huh:
Seriously, buy yourself a spare O2O flywheel from a breakers for £20ish...and send it off to Hotgolf on GCTI. He's the man...you'll get a proper job done there from the expert....and at least you know it's done properly, by someone that knows what to take off, and from where.
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ess_three: how much did you have taken off and what is it like?
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ess_three: how much did you have taken off and what is it like?
Not sure how much comes off...approx half the weight I'd imagine.
Feels similar to adding 30 BHP or so.
It's a big difference, in anyones language.
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ess_three: how much did you have taken off and what is it like?
Not sure how much comes off...approx half the weight I'd imagine.
Feels similar to adding 30 BHP or so.
It's a big difference, in anyones language.
Do think it's worth doing on a vr if I want more torque? I'm temped to get the schrick manifold and some cams to increase the torque just as much has hp
I know it will be beneficial regardless, but would like to hear your input, since you just about know everything to know lol
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Definitely worth doing on a VR6
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Do think it's worth doing on a vr if I want more torque? I'm temped to get the schrick manifold and some cams to increase the torque just as much has hp
I know it will be beneficial regardless, but would like to hear your input, since you just about know everything to know lol
I only know about what I've done...and a VR6 with a light flywheel, Schrick VRS and a pair of Schrick 268 came is a very quick revving, torquey, powerful engine.
A huge step on from the lazy revving, standard VR6.
The only other move I'd make it to better make use of the revs of the light flywheel/cammed VR6..so I'd fit a 3.67 FD from a 16v, and replace the awful standard final drive...to make it go even better.
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Wow...
what a V.interesting read, i will have to make sure ive got some reddies avalible to do this when my clutch needs to be done...
i like the idea of having everything 'light'...
has hotgolf got a website, or is he just a forum member that knows his stuff??
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has hotgolf got a website, or is he just a forum member that knows his stuff??
Just a CGTI user that knows his stuff, is a machinist by trade, and has a healthy interest in all things VW.
He's a top bloke...can't recommend him enough.
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has hotgolf got a website, or is he just a forum member that knows his stuff??
Just a CGTI user that knows his stuff, is a machinist by trade, and has a healthy interest in all things VW.
He's a top bloke...can't recommend him enough.
Nice one!
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Do think it's worth doing on a vr if I want more torque? I'm temped to get the schrick manifold and some cams to increase the torque just as much has hp
I know it will be beneficial regardless, but would like to hear your input, since you just about know everything to know lol
Someone on CGTI Proved the increase in torque on the dyno on a vr6. Plus i've been in the car and it definitely likes to rev.
02A hotgolf flywheel looks like this.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/tshirt2k/16vt%20project/SDC10329.jpg)
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Top job done in the photo, its not that hard to do just need the right tools in your machine shop :smiley:
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Do think it's worth doing on a vr if I want more torque? I'm temped to get the schrick manifold and some cams to increase the torque just as much has hp
I know it will be beneficial regardless, but would like to hear your input, since you just about know everything to know lol
I only know about what I've done...and a VR6 with a light flywheel, Schrick VRS and a pair of Schrick 268 came is a very quick revving, torquey, powerful engine.
A huge step on from the lazy revving, standard VR6.
The only other move I'd make it to better make use of the revs of the light flywheel/cammed VR6..so I'd fit a 3.67 FD from a 16v, and replace the awful standard final drive...to make it go even better.
Perfect!! your a top bloke Ess Three
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Perfect!! your a top bloke Ess Three
My pleasure...
Now, in return, you must send me your wheels. :grin:
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Perfect!! your a top bloke Ess Three
My pleasure...
Now, in return, you must send me a pic of your wheels. :grin:
Yeah sure I will do that for ya :wink:
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With free postage, obviously.
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ok so i sent my flywheel off and hotgolf lightened it and sent it back yesterday so will recieve it today at some point. one question i wanted to ask was will i need shorter bolts for the flywheel? or get the same size bolts?
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Just use a new set of standard flywheel bolts afaik.
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can somebody give me the contact deets for the dude on CCGT and how much it costs to do ?
i am using a 16v box and flywheel in my conversion, which is a BAM engine.. im guessing this is worth doing ??
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Just use a new set of standard flywheel bolts afaik.
yep but use a little loctite on them.
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can somebody give me the contact deets for the dude on CCGT and how much it costs to do ?
i am using a 16v box and flywheel in my conversion, which is a BAM engine.. im guessing this is worth doing ??
Contact 'Hotgolf' over on CGTI. I think he charges £69 to lighten and balance an ABF flywheel which you'd have to supply.
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can somebody give me the contact deets for the dude on CCGT and how much it costs to do ?
i am using a 16v box and flywheel in my conversion, which is a BAM engine.. im guessing this is worth doing ??
PM'ed
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When i had mine done it cost £45 iirc for lightening and balancing from a machine shop...
But they would only do it whilst bolted to a crank!
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When i had mine done it cost £45 iirc for lightening and balancing from a machine shop...
But they would only do it whilst bolted to a crank!
Hardly a fair comparison then, is it?
Marts price includes return postage, and quick turn around.
If you don't want your crank doing...it's a perfect option.
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My point is, it may be worth going to your local machine shop... I could pop down on my work breaks
Plus when i had mine done i never knew about this guy... and I probably would have used him.
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I don't think id be happy having some random machine shop playing around with my flywheel because if it isn't done correctly you're looking at some serious engine and gearbox damage.
Id much rather pay a few quid more and give it to someone that has experience with flywheels on a daily basis.
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easy enough to machine down on a lathe but you also need balancing equipment to re balance it after cutting :)
I had an 020 flywheel done by hotgolf for my mk1, top bloke and quality job. When I need to do the clutch on the mk3 I'll be sending an 02A one to be done :)
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Likewise, il certainty be getting one sent over to him once mine goes to.
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Does lightening a flywheel kill torque?
Considering this for the derv.
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No, it simply allows the revs to pick up / drop faster.
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Is it also worth doing to an 8v?
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Apparently so.
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Is it also worth doing to an 8v?
Yep :afro: makes a difference.
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How much would a new flywheel cost?
i would have to have a new one lightened and ready to replace the excisting one.
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Buy a second hand one seeing as it's going to be machined anyway.
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Yeah, I couldnt find one but asked a guy off ebay to split one of an engine he was selling. Got it for £46 delivered. Had that lightened - balanced - fitted. Sold of my origional one to recoup some wonga. Best way of doing it if you cant afford to have your car off the road for awhile. Also put a new clutch in whilst i was at it for good measure.
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which is what i have done. i should have made a vid of before and after fitting the flywheel but i forgot. anyway the car will be back on the road either tonight to 2moz.
will update
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Take a vid of it revving. I want to see it bark like a dog :grin:
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Take a vid of it revving. I want to see it bark like a dog :grin:
:evil: im well excited i realy cant wait, helped (abdul) fit the gearbox in at 7.30. its gone matt black with red bits :smug: looks kool to me. im just gonna get you guys dribbling (not as good as kells polished bits) well his is on for sale. but i was aiming at the anniversary scene in the engine bay :laugh:
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Yeah, I couldnt find one but asked a guy off ebay to split one of an engine he was selling. Got it for £46 delivered. Had that lightened - balanced - fitted. Sold of my origional one to recoup some wonga. Best way of doing it if you cant afford to have your car off the road for awhile. Also put a new clutch in whilst i was at it for good measure.
that was the plan. :smiley:
cheers :wink: