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Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: Grand Master Patch on 09 December 2009, 20:51

Title: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Grand Master Patch on 09 December 2009, 20:51
Torque V's Bhp

Discuss........
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: bobbarley on 09 December 2009, 20:52
/waits for Rhys to regurgitate everything he knows about torque  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Jkctr on 09 December 2009, 20:54
F1 cars have about 240lb/ft of torque (takes till 8000rpm to get to 200lb/ft) and they are the fastest cars on the planet; because they have lots of BHP

Nuff said!
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Rhyso on 09 December 2009, 20:58
F1 cars have about 240lb/ft of torque (takes till 8000rpm to get to 200lb/ft) and they are the fastest cars on the planet; because they have lots of BHP

Nuff said!

they are also extremely light weight and designed to cut through the air.  Try using one on the road  :tongue:  Also I do believe they top out at 240mph so a Veyron would be the 'fastest' car on the planet  :tongue:

Ideally you need a good combination of both.  Its how the power and torque is delivered is what's crucial to making a quick car. 
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: tonyg on 09 December 2009, 21:04
bhp is a derivative of torque as in one is mathematically related to the other but torque is the true measure of an engines turning force...
I personally like revvy petrol engines but it's torque blasts you through the finish line, bhp is known as pub talk isn't it?  :grin:
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Jkctr on 09 December 2009, 21:08
bhp is a derivative of torque as in one is mathematically related to the other but torque is the true measure of an engines turning force...
I personally like revvy petrol engines but it's torque blasts you through the finish line, bhp is known as pub talk isn't it?  :grin:


Torque may show how much turning force you have for one crankshaft rotation but not how quickly it turns.

BHP is how much torque you have in one second - 1bhp is the equivalent of 550lb/ft being applied in one second  :smug:
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Grand Master Patch on 09 December 2009, 21:10
Would two cars with very similar bhp be around the same speed up a hill if one had an 80 lbs/ft of torque,or would one be faster than the other?
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Jkctr on 09 December 2009, 21:13
Would two cars with very similar bhp be around the same speed up a hill if one had an 80 lbs/ft of torque,or would one be faster than the other?

Huh? What does the other have? Are they identical?

Still a usless question as one will have less of something so be slower, if both cars had the same torque but one had more bhp that would be quicker.
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Grand Master Patch on 09 December 2009, 21:14
Both 225 bhp,one has 80 more ft/lbs torque(diesel) which do you think would be quicker?
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: tonyg on 09 December 2009, 21:16
Would two cars with very similar bhp be around the same speed up a hill if one had an 80 lbs/ft of torque,or would one be faster than the other?

Huh? What does the other have? Are they identical?

Still a usless question as one will have less of something so be slower, if both cars had the same torque but one had more bhp that would be quicker.

The car with identical bhp but more torque would theoretically be quicker up the hill because the engine has more turning force (providing both cars identical/weight etc..)
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Jkctr on 09 December 2009, 21:16
Depends on the weight and gearing. My type r pissed all over remapped diesels if i was using the gears properly but would struggle if they caught me out.
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Rhyso on 09 December 2009, 21:17
Both 225 bhp,one has 80 more ft/lbs torque(diesel) which do you think would be quicker?

this doesn't happen to relate to that video you posted a few weeks back  :tongue:
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Grand Master Patch on 09 December 2009, 21:19
Both 225 bhp,one has 80 more ft/lbs torque(diesel) which do you think would be quicker?

this doesn't happen to relate to that video you posted a few weeks back  :tongue:

Sort of,but not as much as a diesel bashing as you think.A friend of mine seems to think the diesel isn't running right due to the amount of smoke that it chucks out.
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: bobbarley on 09 December 2009, 21:19
Both 225 bhp,one has 80 more ft/lbs torque(diesel) which do you think would be quicker?

this doesn't happen to relate to that video you posted a few weeks back  :tongue:

Sort of,but not as much as a diesel bashing as you think.A friend of mine seems to think the diesel isn't running right due to the amount of smoke that it chucks out.

Rhys is your expert on that then!  :grin: :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: topher on 09 December 2009, 21:20
jules you're such a vtec fanboy, you're well practiced at defending the civic's lack of torque :grin:

elaborate anyway GMP.. are you talking styles of tuning on the same engine, or petrol vs diseasel?
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Jkctr on 09 December 2009, 21:22
Remember as well its also the amount of torque/bhp throughout the rev range. Most diesels have higher peak torque figures than petrols but wank power bands, peaking early over a few rpm's where as cars with lower peak figures have more torque throughout the rev range.

So many variables involved in a car vs car debate. My car isnt quicker than an M3 (e46) but i murdered one the other day as i had a variable in my favor in the rain (traction) doesnt mean my car is quicker.

jules you're such a vtec fanboy, you're well practiced at defending the civic's lack of torque :grin:

elaborate anyway GMP.. are you talking styles of tuning on the same engine, or petrol vs diseasel?

The N/A vtec engine is the perfect example of how a lack of peak torque but good bhp figure and well spread power band and gearing can make a quick car.
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Rhyso on 09 December 2009, 21:22
Both 225 bhp,one has 80 more ft/lbs torque(diesel) which do you think would be quicker?

this doesn't happen to relate to that video you posted a few weeks back  :tongue:

Sort of,but not as much as a diesel bashing as you think.A friend of mine seems to think the diesel isn't running right due to the amount of smoke that it chucks out.

Could be over fuelling  :undecided:  mine chucks out hardly any smoke since fitting a nice clean intercooler.  Has he got a catch tank fitted?
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: bobbarley on 09 December 2009, 21:23
I thought I'd throw the Mazda RX8 into the mix as well. It's seriously lacking in torque, has about 237bhp.  Goes DAMN fast, but requires one to rev the nuts off it!!
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: tonyg on 09 December 2009, 21:25


The N/A vtec engine is the perfect example of how a lack of peak torque but good bhp figure and well spread power band and gearing can make a quick car.

[/quote]

Once you've wound it up! I notice you swapped it for a,erm torquey V6 :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Grand Master Patch on 09 December 2009, 21:26
Both 225 bhp,one has 80 more ft/lbs torque(diesel) which do you think would be quicker?

this doesn't happen to relate to that video you posted a few weeks back  :tongue:

Sort of,but not as much as a diesel bashing as you think.A friend of mine seems to think the diesel isn't running right due to the amount of smoke that it chucks out.

Could be over fuelling  :undecided:  mine chucks out hardly any smoke since fitting a nice clean intercooler.  Has he got a catch tank fitted?

No catch tank as yet,does over fuelling cause that massive plume of smoke?
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Jkctr on 09 December 2009, 21:27
I thought I'd throw the Mazda RX8 into the mix as well. It's seriously lacking in torque, has about 237bhp.  Goes DAMN fast, but requires one to rev the nuts off it!!

Yep, a good example.

Torque makes driving easier, not necessarily faster. BHP will make your car faster.


The N/A vtec engine is the perfect example of how a lack of peak torque but good bhp figure and well spread power band and gearing can make a quick car.


Once you've wound it up! I notice you swapped it for a,erm torquey V6 :lipsrsealed:

Indeed, as its easier. My old ctr would pull my pants down rolling from 30-70, even with its lack of torque!
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: tonyg on 09 December 2009, 21:29
I thought I'd throw the Mazda RX8 into the mix as well. It's seriously lacking in torque, has about 237bhp.  Goes DAMN fast, but requires one to rev the nuts off it!!

RX8 = slow, my mate had one, spent good money on tuning it and then sold it to buy and Evo 9 360 when he couldn't keep up with my old supercharged Mr2  :grin:
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: bobbarley on 09 December 2009, 21:29
I drove my mates it was pretty rapid.
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Rhyso on 09 December 2009, 21:30
Both 225 bhp,one has 80 more ft/lbs torque(diesel) which do you think would be quicker?

this doesn't happen to relate to that video you posted a few weeks back  :tongue:

Sort of,but not as much as a diesel bashing as you think.A friend of mine seems to think the diesel isn't running right due to the amount of smoke that it chucks out.

Could be over fuelling  :undecided:  mine chucks out hardly any smoke since fitting a nice clean intercooler.  Has he got a catch tank fitted?

No catch tank as yet,does over fuelling cause that massive plume of smoke?

yeah it can do - Nick has explained it somewhere about how you use the turbo to 'clean' the burn so to speak

Quote
I dont like pre boost black smoke, only a rich burn while the turbo is on full song.  I need to read up on the TDI hybrid threads and see what peeps are doing.  400lbft  sounds like fun and I am missing out on the action.

taken from this thread
http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/286709.aspx?PageIndex=9
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Grand Master Patch on 09 December 2009, 21:31
What have i started :grin:



(http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/data/500/can_of_worms.jpg)

Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Jkctr on 09 December 2009, 21:31
I thought I'd throw the Mazda RX8 into the mix as well. It's seriously lacking in torque, has about 237bhp.  Goes DAMN fast, but requires one to rev the nuts off it!!

RX8 = slow, my mate had one, spent good money on tuning it and then sold it to buy and Evo 9 360 when he couldn't keep up with my old supercharged Mr2  :grin:

Different people have different definitions of fast. If i had an mr2 it would need to be quick as i wouldnt want anyone to see me in it  :embarassed:
Throw in some corners and a standard RX8 will leave a lot of cars behind, they are immense through bends!
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: tonyg on 09 December 2009, 21:38
I thought I'd throw the Mazda RX8 into the mix as well. It's seriously lacking in torque, has about 237bhp.  Goes DAMN fast, but requires one to rev the nuts off it!!

RX8 = slow, my mate had one, spent good money on tuning it and then sold it to buy and Evo 9 360 when he couldn't keep up with my old supercharged Mr2  :grin:

Different people have different definitions of fast. If i had an mr2 it would need to be quick as i wouldnt want anyone to see me in it  :embarassed:
Throw in some corners and a standard RX8 will leave a lot of cars behind, they are immense through bends!


It was faster in every definition, from the lights, on straights,twisties, it also ate ctr's for breakfast   :laugh: :evil:
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Jkctr on 09 December 2009, 21:40
Supercharged ones  :rolleyes:

You had the only fast MR2 then, they are all heaps from experience  :sick:
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: tonyg on 09 December 2009, 21:42
i didn't need to add a supercharger, Toyota had already done it for me  :tongue:
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: Jkctr on 09 December 2009, 21:49
Im well aware of that. The really old cheese wedge shape mr2  :sick:
Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: tg1 on 10 December 2009, 08:35
my 2p is its more power to weight that appeals to me.

but you need power and torque in a road car to make it usable.

torque is easier to use power is more fun to use

all imo

and mk1 'charged mr2's  :cool:

Title: Re: Torque V's BHP/What's your view?
Post by: tonyg on 10 December 2009, 10:24
Im well aware of that. The really old cheese wedge shape mr2  :sick:


ha ha yeah, proper 80's machine. You should make an effort to drive one then you wouldn't care what it looked like :wink:

I do like the v-tecs, my bro's old S2000 was really sweet and i do lstill ove the old dc2's.

I second tg1, power to weight is where it's at, take that Caparo that was on top gear which had twice the bhp/ton than a veyron and nailed the lap in 7 seconds less than the Koenigsegg CCX, sorry for the big link don't know how to do a 'clicky'

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.themotorreport.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/2007-caparo-t1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.themotorreport.com.au/2913/2007-caparo-t1-destroys-top-gear-test-track-lap-record/&h=360&w=480&sz=20&tbnid=UzDeNHFJKtfXmM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtop%2Bgear%2Bfastest%2Bcar&usg=__CubkBxpoiap-kcGlMCJvEsEdf6c=&ei=hcsgS8GzCs6k4QaSncDmCQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=8&ct=image&ved=0CCEQ9QEwBw