GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: gtiscott on 04 August 2009, 17:36
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on my drive home when i pulled up to lights smoke(or steam) came from the passenger side rear brakes, when i looked everything was really hot including the rim, not long had the brakes done so cant be metal on metal or anything....any idea what this could be? does the handbrake control the rear brakes? could this be stuck on slightly?. also on further inspection both rear calipers look as if they are sitting in different positions, what could cause this? see pics
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z280/gtiiiiiii/100_0734.jpg)
this one that doesnt look right
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z280/gtiiiiiii/100_0735.jpg)
this is the one that looks ok but had the smoke and burning smell coming from it
cheers
Scott
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looks like the caliper is missing a bolt :shocked:
Wheel off and check that before you even look at the other wheel.
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The top caliper looks like its hanging off and if the other one is hot would also suggest a problem (sticking on). Have you had work done there recently?
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on my drive home when i pulled up to lights smoke(or steam) came from the passenger side rear brakes, when i looked everything was really hot including the rim, not long had the brakes done so cant be metal on metal or anything....any idea what this could be? does the handbrake control the rear brakes? could this be stuck on slightly?. also on further inspection both rear calipers look as if they are sitting in different positions, what could cause this? see pics
cheers
Scott
:smiley:
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Does look like the caliper has lost a bolt and pivoted round.
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your bottom caliper bold has sheared.... same happened to me when i bought mine a few months ago. It had new pads done and wasnt put back properlly.
first it made a knocking and grinding noise like metal on metal then i pulled up to a parking spot and when i reversed it spun the whole caliper up and it got wedged in the caliper guard...
Check it now and dont drive coz if it comes of and get wedged in a wheel you are dead m8
You might find you need new pads coz mine had crumbled and had huge grooves in them.. ill see if photobucket is being nice today and get some pics....which reminds me i must get some maf shot
dave
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thanks for the replys, i just had new pads and discs on the rear so something ain't right.. will have to give the garage a call tommorrow and give them a peice of my mind :angry: I was going to get the missus to drop it in but dont really want her to drive it either
scott
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No dont drive it tell them to come and collect it. I would be really annoyed and I wouldnt be expecting no bill.
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No dont drive it tell them to come and collect it. I would be really annoyed and I wouldnt be expecting no bill.
+1, do not drive it, let them collect it.
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+2, dangerous to drive in current state.
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really p****d of with the car right now, just spent a fortune getting it through an mot, one week later the front break pad split and now this :angry: :angry:
once again thanks for the replys guys
scott
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+2, dangerous to drive in current state.
And ilegal :sad:
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Your (so called) mechanic probably re-used your old calliper bolts instead of new ones. He may have over torqued them too. These bolts are under a huge amount of torque and when removed become weaker and so should be replaced. You could sue the garage for this serious safety issue. You should get them to do it properly this time and ask for all your money back. You know it makes sense.. :wink:
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Your (so called) mechanic probably re-used your old calliper bolts instead of new ones. He may have over torqued them too. These bolts are under a huge amount of torque and when removed become weaker and so should be replaced. You could sue the garage for this serious safety issue. You should get them to do it properly this time and ask for all your money back. You know it makes sense.. :wink:
Most likley left them undone, (takes a lot to push a bolt past its elastic limit.) are your wheel nut tight as well :lipsrsealed:
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Your (so called) mechanic probably re-used your old calliper bolts instead of new ones. He may have over torqued them too. These bolts are under a huge amount of torque and when removed become weaker and so should be replaced. You could sue the garage for this serious safety issue. You should get them to do it properly this time and ask for all your money back. You know it makes sense.. :wink:
You can re-use any of the bolts fitted, neither are stretch type. The caliper bolts need to be coated with thread lock if re-used, the allen key type bolts that hold the carrier can be re-used also.
I think from the picture the allen key bolt has come out, as it appears the whole assembly has pivoted up.
The problem may be it hasn't been tightened to a high enough torque.
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Your (so called) mechanic probably re-used your old calliper bolts instead of new ones. He may have over torqued them too. These bolts are under a huge amount of torque and when removed become weaker and so should be replaced. You could sue the garage for this serious safety issue. You should get them to do it properly this time and ask for all your money back. You know it makes sense.. :wink:
You can re-use any of the bolts fitted, neither are stretch type. The caliper bolts need to be coated with thread lock if re-used, the allen key type bolts that hold the carrier can be re-used also.
I think from the picture the allen key bolt has come out, as it appears the whole assembly has pivoted up.
The problem may be it hasn't been tightened to a high enough torque.
+1 I always use loctite on caliper bolts.
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I'm sure i read somewhere that vw used thread lock on the allen key bolts on mk3's. Thats why they are so damn difficult to get out.
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I'm sure i read somewhere that vw used thread lock on the allen key bolts on mk3's. Thats why they are so damn difficult to get out.
I am sure they do plus I believe new bolts come coated with loctite as well.
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I'm sure i read somewhere that vw used thread lock on the allen key bolts on mk3's. Thats why they are so damn difficult to get out.
I am sure they do plus I believe new bolts come coated with loctite as well.
Its the slide pin bolts that have loctite on them and these bolts must NEVER be re used. The allen bolts are the calliper mounting bolts and do not need loctite. It is worth replacing these as the heads are sometimes damaged when undoing and could round off. For the sake of a couple of quid why wouldnt you replace these anyway? We are talking about safety after all?
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I'm sure i read somewhere that vw used thread lock on the allen key bolts on mk3's. Thats why they are so damn difficult to get out.
I am sure they do plus I believe new bolts come coated with loctite as well.
Its the slide pin bolts that have loctite on them and these bolts must NEVER be re used. The allen bolts are the calliper mounting bolts and do not need loctite. It is worth replacing these as the heads are sometimes damaged when undoing and could round off. For the sake of a couple of quid why wouldnt you replace these anyway? We are talking about safety after all?
The slide pin bolts don't need to be replaced at all. They just need a fresh coating of loctite.
If you get new ones with new pads/discs, use them, if not just re-coat the old bolts.
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Your (so called) mechanic probably re-used your old calliper bolts instead of new ones. He may have over torqued them too. These bolts are under a huge amount of torque and when removed become weaker and so should be replaced. You could sue the garage for this serious safety issue. You should get them to do it properly this time and ask for all your money back. You know it makes sense.. :wink:
The apprentice mechanic will probably be getting his a**e booted as we speak and put on sweeping up duties for the next month.
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The slide pin bolts don't need to be replaced at all. They just need a fresh coating of loctite.
If you get new ones with new pads/discs, use them, if not just re-coat the old bolts.
[/quote]AudiA8Quattro
The slide pin bolts always need replacing. Always discard the old bolts. If they werent important, they wouldnt include them in brake pad kits. Lets not argue about safety and common bloody sense.
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Why do the slider bolts need to be replaced?
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You should not need to replace the slide pin bolts.
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Why is that?
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what if the old manky bolts happened to stretch or weaken? They could break. Any bolt that has had loctite on it must be re newed. The excess torque required to crack these may weaken the bolts. How many more ways would you like this put? Shall we start a poll on the subject? You two are wrong, I am right, just face it.
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what if the old manky bolts happened to stretch or weaken? They could break. Any bolt that has had loctite on it must be re newed. The excess torque required to crack these may weaken the bolts. How many more ways would you like this put? Shall we start a poll on the subject? You two are wrong, I am right, just face it.
I work with heavy plant every day (up to 50 ton), if a bolt is a stretch bolt then it should always be replaced without fail, any other bolt can be reused even if it has loctite on it, some of the bolts on the undercarriage of a machine are torqued to 500lbs ft and are always reused, most bolts are 8.8 grade and will cope with being torqued many times, if it should get weak then it will tend to shear off before torque is reached.
So sorry on this occasion I believe you are wrong.
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what if the old manky bolts happened to stretch or weaken? They could break. Any bolt that has had loctite on it must be re newed. The excess torque required to crack these may weaken the bolts. How many more ways would you like this put? Shall we start a poll on the subject? You two are wrong, I am right, just face it.
Lets face it. You young man talk bollox.
The bolts should be replaced if they have deteriorated in anyway.
If the bolts are in good condition then a new coat of loctite is fine. Perfectly safe infact.
The bolts will not stretch or weaken if in good condition, these bolts are not done up to a high torque(26lb ft), you obviously don't know that.
The factory workshop manual always says to replace them, as otherwise people will re-use them regardless of condition.
If the bolts are in good condition with a fresh bit of loctite, then you affectively have the same as a new bolt.
If i get new bolts in a kit with pads/discs, i will always replace, that is common sense.
However if, in between pad changes, i want to service clean the rear brakes(which should be done as rear brakes can go for years without a need to change the friction material), then i will re-use the bolts if in good condition with some fresh loctite.
Now thats bloody common sense.
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what if the old manky bolts happened to stretch or weaken? They could break. Any bolt that has had loctite on it must be re newed. The excess torque required to crack these may weaken the bolts. How many more ways would you like this put? Shall we start a poll on the subject? You two are wrong, I am right, just face it.
I work with heavy plant every day (up to 50 ton), if a bolt is a stretch bolt then it should always be replaced without fail, any other bolt can be reused even if it has loctite on it, some of the bolts on the undercarriage of a machine are torqued to 500lbs ft and are always reused, most bolts are 8.8 grade and will cope with being torqued many times, if it should get weak then it will tend to shear off before torque is reached.
So sorry on this occasion I believe you are wrong.
Correct.
The only time a bolt MUST be replace is if its a stretch bolt.
Do you understand what a stretch bolt is harlemex?
Do you also understand the difference between using loctite on a normal bolt and a stretch bolt?
Infact do you have any understanding about locking a thread? :rolleyes:
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what if the old manky bolts happened to stretch or weaken? They could break. Any bolt that has had loctite on it must be re newed. The excess torque required to crack these may weaken the bolts. How many more ways would you like this put? Shall we start a poll on the subject? You two are wrong, I am right, just face it.
I work with heavy plant every day (up to 50 ton), if a bolt is a stretch bolt then it should always be replaced without fail, any other bolt can be reused even if it has loctite on it, some of the bolts on the undercarriage of a machine are torqued to 500lbs ft and are always reused, most bolts are 8.8 grade and will cope with being torqued many times, if it should get weak then it will tend to shear off before torque is reached.
So sorry on this occasion I believe you are wrong.
+1
I too work on large machines and we only change damaged or stretch bolts
Most bolts fail due to not being done up properly.
It pays to look at them before you put them back signs of fatigue can be pretty obvious when you know what to look for.
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The reason you get new sliders with brake kits is because they have a tendency to sieze not a tendency to snap. The short studs that hold the sliders in place having worked in a garage for years as a labourer doing brakes services clutches etc. I personally have never known one of these to snap unless you overtighten but that could also happen weith a new bolt. Of course if it is undertightened it could come loose but I dont think thats whats happened here as the caliper would not swing round. I think that it is the carrier that has come loose probably through human error rather than mechanical failure seeing its just had said brake serviced.
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what if the old manky bolts happened to stretch or weaken? They could break. Any bolt that has had loctite on it must be re newed. The excess torque required to crack these may weaken the bolts. How many more ways would you like this put? Shall we start a poll on the subject? You two are wrong, I am right, just face it.
I work with heavy plant every day (up to 50 ton), if a bolt is a stretch bolt then it should always be replaced without fail, any other bolt can be reused even if it has loctite on it, some of the bolts on the undercarriage of a machine are torqued to 500lbs ft and are always reused, most bolts are 8.8 grade and will cope with being torqued many times, if it should get weak then it will tend to shear off before torque is reached.
So sorry on this occasion I believe you are wrong.
Correct.
The only time a bolt MUST be replace is if its a stretch bolt.
Do you understand what a stretch bolt is harlemex?
Do you also understand the difference between using loctite on a normal bolt and a stretch bolt?
Infact do you have any understanding about locking a thread? :rolleyes:
I understand what a stretch bolt is ie. head bolts. So you are telling me that manuals tell you to replace the bolts because you might not even if they are in bad condition? Do they say this for all other bolts too. As for your 500 pounds of torque on a plant machine, well so what? Have you noticed how small these bolts are? bolts on brakes are safety critical, you should replace them,
you are still talking bollox and so you and your ass lickin pal should go back to school.
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what if the old manky bolts happened to stretch or weaken? They could break. Any bolt that has had loctite on it must be re newed. The excess torque required to crack these may weaken the bolts. How many more ways would you like this put? Shall we start a poll on the subject? You two are wrong, I am right, just face it.
I work with heavy plant every day (up to 50 ton), if a bolt is a stretch bolt then it should always be replaced without fail, any other bolt can be reused even if it has loctite on it, some of the bolts on the undercarriage of a machine are torqued to 500lbs ft and are always reused, most bolts are 8.8 grade and will cope with being torqued many times, if it should get weak then it will tend to shear off before torque is reached.
So sorry on this occasion I believe you are wrong.
Correct.
The only time a bolt MUST be replace is if its a stretch bolt.
Do you understand what a stretch bolt is harlemex?
Do you also understand the difference between using loctite on a normal bolt and a stretch bolt?
Infact do you have any understanding about locking a thread? :rolleyes:
I understand what a stretch bolt is ie. head bolts. So you are telling me that manuals tell you to replace the bolts because you might not even if they are in bad condition? Do they say this for all other bolts too. As for your 500 pounds of torque on a plant machine, well so what? Have you noticed how small these bolts are? bolts on brakes are safety critical, you should replace them,
you are still talking bollox and so you and your ass lickin pal should go back to school.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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:grin: :grin: :grin:
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what if the old manky bolts happened to stretch or weaken? They could break. Any bolt that has had loctite on it must be re newed. The excess torque required to crack these may weaken the bolts. How many more ways would you like this put? Shall we start a poll on the subject? You two are wrong, I am right, just face it.
I work with heavy plant every day (up to 50 ton), if a bolt is a stretch bolt then it should always be replaced without fail, any other bolt can be reused even if it has loctite on it, some of the bolts on the undercarriage of a machine are torqued to 500lbs ft and are always reused, most bolts are 8.8 grade and will cope with being torqued many times, if it should get weak then it will tend to shear off before torque is reached.
So sorry on this occasion I believe you are wrong.
Correct.
The only time a bolt MUST be replace is if its a stretch bolt.
Do you understand what a stretch bolt is harlemex?
Do you also understand the difference between using loctite on a normal bolt and a stretch bolt?
Infact do you have any understanding about locking a thread? :rolleyes:
I understand what a stretch bolt is ie. head bolts. So you are telling me that manuals tell you to replace the bolts because you might not even if they are in bad condition? Do they say this for all other bolts too. As for your 500 pounds of torque on a plant machine, well so what? Have you noticed how small these bolts are? bolts on brakes are safety critical, you should replace them,
you are still talking bollox and so you and your ass lickin pal should go back to school.
Shut up.
You don't know what you're talking about, no-one is agreeing with you.
Go back to reading your haynes manual you incompetent little t.wat :rolleyes:
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Harlemax, have you looked up how a stretch bolt works yet? :grin:
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your the one that doesnt know what your talkin about and i dont care who agrees or not, its a fact. you think you know everything just coz you sit on here all day rackin up posts. I bet youve hardly ever lifted a spanner. Maybe you should read your manual on manners. d.ick head.
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Harlemax, have you looked up how a stretch bolt works yet? :grin:
you should stick with brown nosing, bully boy.
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your the one that doesnt know what your talkin about and i dont care who agrees or not, its a fact. you think you know everything just coz you sit on here all day rackin up posts. I bet youve hardly ever lifted a spanner. Maybe you should read your manual on manners. d.ick head.
You started the abuse, you little f**king tosser :grin:
Thats is because you are totally sussed out, just face it little f.aggot boy :laugh:
Two engineers have said you are wrong, not just me.
So just face it, put your hands up when you're wrong :rolleyes:
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Harlemax, have you looked up how a stretch bolt works yet? :grin:
you should stick with brown nosing, bully boy.
More abuse.
Just admit, YOU ARE Q.UEER :grin:
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Harlemax, have you looked up how a stretch bolt works yet? :grin:
you should stick with brown nosing, bully boy.
More abuse.
Just admit, YOU ARE Q.UEER :grin:
Engineers my eye. Anyhow, you have just exposed what you really know all about and thats how to behave like a complete and utter nobody. :grin:
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If you say so.
You disagreed with me, but then everyone else disagreed with you, then you threw all your toys out of your pram.
Your opinion is your opinion, but no-one agrees with it.
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Sometimes using the original bolts is far better then the cheap pieces of sh!t they give you with the brake pads.
Much stronger, we've always found VW bolts to be stronger.
We tested this in front of a customer that moaning that we didn't change the bolts, try it yourself, get an old caliper carrier and torque an old bolt with the new ones in a vice.
We showed the one they gave us sheering off 5nm before the old one.
Your choice. :wink:
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If you say so.
You disagreed with me, but then everyone else disagreed with you, then you threw all your toys out of your pram.
Your opinion is your opinion, but no-one agrees with it.
you were the one who disagreed with me. Some agree with you cause they dont want to be victimized, not cos the agree with you.
My opinion is that you threw your toys out the pram not me. Anyhow you were Quoting factory manuals that agreed with me. So does everyone agree that they are wrong ?
Anyway I didnt mean to upset you so in the first place, I was tryin to help the guy at the beginning of this awful thread(get it?) :grin:
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Sometimes using the original bolts is far better then the cheap pieces of sh!t they give you with the brake pads.
Much stronger, we've always found VW bolts to be stronger.
We tested this in front of a customer that moaning that we didn't change the bolts, try it yourself, get an old caliper carrier and torque an old bolt with the new ones in a vice.
We showed the one they gave us sheering off 5nm before the old one.
Your choice. :wink:
I wasnt disputing this, get new vw ones then, its good for peace of mind.
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This is how i see normal bolts and stretch bolts. I'm sure i'll be corrected if i'm wrong :smug:
All bolts stretch when torqued up, however a stretch bolt is designed to stretch further than the elastic limit of a normal bolt. At this point a normal bolt will break.
The effect of this is once the bolt has stretched, it compresses against the thread, in effect making it like a 'self locking' bolt.
The reason these bolts must always be replaced is once stretched, they will be need to be torqued up even tighter to 'lock' the bolt. Therefore you cannot know if you are using the correct torque and risk breaking the bolt as it will be weaker.
Normal bolts will not stretch in this way, so are normally ok to re-use.
The other method of locking a bolt is loctite, which prevents the thread from vibrating loose.
Also nuts with nylock or slightly off shaped nuts can be used to lock a bolt/stud.
The bolts used on a golf rear caliper are small, but are only tightened to 26lb ft. At such a small torque it is very unlikely that distortion,stretch or damage would occur.
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If you say so.
You disagreed with me, but then everyone else disagreed with you, then you threw all your toys out of your pram.
Your opinion is your opinion, but no-one agrees with it.
you were the one who disagreed with me. Some agree with you cause they dont want to be victimized, not cos the agree with you.
My opinion is that you threw your toys out the pram not me. Anyhow you were Quoting factory manuals that agreed with me. So does everyone agree that they are wrong ?
Anyway I didnt mean to upset you so in the first place, I was tryin to help the guy at the beginning of this awful thread(get it?) :grin:
People agreed with me because that is their opinion!
Victimized by me? what utter sh!te :rolleyes:
You started the abuse, and yes i should of choose to ignore it, but hey thats me :laugh:
I do normally go by the factory repair manual, however in this situation its good to use a bit of common sense, if i had any doubt about the condition of any bolts, i will bin them.
Its been an interesting discussion, however i do think you should listen to other people's opinions :smiley:
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anyway guys....car going into garage tommorrow guy said 'its a common thing in golfs' for bolts to shear. but of course he is going to say that to cover himself
scott
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What bolt was it that sheared?
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anyway guys....car going into garage tommorrow guy said 'its a common thing in golfs' for bolts to shear. but of course he is going to say that to cover himself
scott
nuff said :laugh:
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What bolt was it that sheared?
It looks like its the carrier bolt that come adrift not the caliper bolt.
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'its a common thing in golfs' for bolts to shear.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vh1_ELXe6_g/SQw2AjCWAvI/AAAAAAAAADo/N_HQ3zDoij0/s400/Bullsh!t.gif)
Tell him you have trauma troubles. :laugh: :lipsrsealed:
Ladeez, put away the handbags.
:laugh:
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guess this is where the bolts missing,
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z280/gtiiiiiii/100_0738.jpg)
going to act dumb tommorrow and ask if it sheared and left threaded bit in...if he says yes then all hell braks loose :evil:
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Yep thats the carrier
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guess this is where the bolts missing,
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z280/gtiiiiiii/100_0738.jpg)
going to act dumb tommorrow and ask if it sheared and left threaded bit in...if he says yes then all hell braks loose :evil:
:laugh:
Just haven't done the job properly. OK we're not perfect, but when it comes to brakes, you need to be even more cautious.
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but it ain't sheared though has it, just either fell out or not been put there to start with.
just hope there honest enough to tell the truth cause if not its time to find a new garage and i have been using them for years :sad:
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If it had sheared the broken bit would still be in there no they forgot to tighten it simple as that.
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what if the old manky bolts happened to stretch or weaken? They could break. Any bolt that has had loctite on it must be re newed. The excess torque required to crack these may weaken the bolts. How many more ways would you like this put? Shall we start a poll on the subject? You two are wrong, I am right, just face it.
I work with heavy plant every day (up to 50 ton), if a bolt is a stretch bolt then it should always be replaced without fail, any other bolt can be reused even if it has loctite on it, some of the bolts on the undercarriage of a machine are torqued to 500lbs ft and are always reused, most bolts are 8.8 grade and will cope with being torqued many times, if it should get weak then it will tend to shear off before torque is reached.
So sorry on this occasion I believe you are wrong.
Correct.
The only time a bolt MUST be replace is if its a stretch bolt.
Do you understand what a stretch bolt is harlemex?
Do you also understand the difference between using loctite on a normal bolt and a stretch bolt?
Infact do you have any understanding about locking a thread? :rolleyes:
I understand what a stretch bolt is ie. head bolts. So you are telling me that manuals tell you to replace the bolts because you might not even if they are in bad condition? Do they say this for all other bolts too. As for your 500 pounds of torque on a plant machine, well so what? Have you noticed how small these bolts are? bolts on brakes are safety critical, you should replace them,
you are still talking bollox and so you and your ass lickin pal should go back to school.
Sorry but could you grow up and speak in an adult manner, that was uncalled for, your wrong end of the matter.
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Harlemax, have you looked up how a stretch bolt works yet? :grin:
you should stick with brown nosing, bully boy.
More abuse.
Just admit, YOU ARE Q.UEER :grin:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Wayne just owned yo' ass. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwCaOg39ZCo)
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Wayne just owned yo' ass. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwCaOg39ZCo)
:grin: :grin:
http://www.unbrako.com/strengths.htm
All you need to know about bolts, this is my supplier the best by far
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girls,girls,girls get your limited edition gti forum handbags here...theres gonna be a b!tch fight, ouch my hair :laugh:
I see you guys are a bit touchy about the whole nuts thing so id like to have a peice of the pie ive actually read it from start to finish 3 times it was so funny i even invited a few mates round for a giggle..
truth is your all wrong...
just kidding
its simple.............
if you wanna use locite use it
if your carrier bolts are a bit fooked then change them
if they look good then use them again
its only down to personal preferance to either use new bolts or us locite (carriers only)
and lets face it you dont use new nuts everytime you take a wheel of...
few rules to remember
if in doult throw it out
if it comes with new nuts use them
tight is tight...
Dave
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I use loctite on my handbags zipper. My handbag is full of nuts and bolts. :tongue:
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girls,girls,girls get your limited edition gti forum handbags here...theres gonna be a b!tch fight, ouch my hair :laugh:
I see you guys are a bit touchy about the whole nuts thing so id like to have a peice of the pie ive actually read it from start to finish 3 times it was so funny i even invited a few mates round for a giggle..
truth is your all wrong...
just kidding
its simple.............
if you wanna use locite use it
if your carrier bolts are a bit fooked then change them
if they look good then use them again
its only down to personal preferance to either use new bolts or us locite (carriers only)
and lets face it you dont use new nuts everytime you take a wheel of...
few rules to remember
if in doult throw it out
if it comes with new nuts use them
tight is tight...
Dave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z5kdZld-JI
Made me think of a song :laugh:
I love a good handbag thread..............
How about a which is faster 8 or 16v :laugh: :laugh: :evil: