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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Jay on 14 June 2009, 21:35
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It first started on the M40 heading south. I lost acceleration and could not keep the speed up (loss of power), I pulled over to the hard shoulder, car was still running. So sat there thinking wtf happened, as I'm new to the GTD I wouldn't have any ideas on what to look for, so I started on my way again (strangely there was acceleration), there was still not as much power as normal though. This happened again, I pulled over to the hard shoulder I switched the car off, took a few DEEP breathes as I had the missus saying WTF's happening and making me more stressed, told her to shut it, took a few more breathes, started car again and carried on our way with lack of power.
We eventually got to the A34 and had the same problem not long after joining it. I pulled over to the hard shoulder (or lack of) and the car cut out when I tried pulling away again, so told the missus to take the kiddie up the path and to get away from the road. I tried starting it, but it only tried to turn over and couldn't start up. At that point not know anything about how diesels operate I thought to call the rescue services.
Just been out to the car and got it started by turning the key 1 click a few times then all the way where it struggled to start but it did, then it died 5 seconds later.
When I turn the key 1 click, I have two audible clicks from the engine bay.
I couldn't find any power to the fuel pump in the engine bay so couldn't disconnect it to listen for the lift pump (in tank pump). The fuel lines are dirty and browny/orange so I can't tell if there is fuel in them as diesel is clear.
Suggestions on where to start looking please.
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Lift pump
Fuel pump
Fuel filter
Vac pipe leak
Intake manifold gasket leak
Turbo intake has a leak
Completely blocked air filter (not likely)
Sounds fuel related to me if you can get it to start after priming the pump a few times.
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Lift pump or air / dirt in the system
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iirc the main pump is mechanical? i vaguely remember reading that some vag diesels have a water trap under the car, you open the drain and let it pour out till diesel starts coming out of it then close it up.
did you notice any smoke (more than usual :grin:) when you started to loose power?
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Nope, no smoke at all :tongue: Well, except on start up but... V
I did notice that the choke was a bit out when I got to Leicester, I must have bumped it with my knee to something. If that had been open all the way from Wallingford to Leicester could it have caused any problems? :huh: The choke probably caused the smoke on start up at home, because it was fine the couple of times we started her in Leics.
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Nope, no smoke at all :tongue: Well, except on start up but... V
I did notice that the choke was a bit out when I got to Leicester, I must have bumped it with my knee to something. If that had been open all the way from Wallingford to Leicester could it have caused any problems? :huh: The choke probably caused the smoke on start up at home, because it was fine the couple of times we started her in Leics.
Diesel's don't have a choke, I believe that is the engine stop cable I might be wrong however.
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just been to my GTD expert.
1, no lift pump on ya GTD
2, he read your " story " - instantly said you have put petrol in it
3, in the engine there is a RETURN pipe around the fuel filter area - you should be able to see fuel return back into the feed
4, IF you fail elsewhere, and can get it up here he said he will take a look one night this week for you.
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Cheers Chuff.
I spoke to Crazy Quiff this morning and he thinks it's the fuel solenoid valve that could be buggered, but he's not the mechanic and the mechanic should be back tomorrow from the IOW fest.
I'll take the feed pipes off the fuel filter to see if I can smell petrol, but I'm certain I put diesel in.
Wayne, I'll have a look into that. My brother in law said it's a choke and it's in the same place...
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It could be your fuel cut off solenoid, no real way of testing them is the only problem.
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hit it with a hammer :grin: :grin: :grin:
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dont know about ur problem it might just be your leak off pipes dont know, but the choke lever thing is your cold start it gives you extra diesel on start up so i have been told, i have had 2 gtd's, 1 mk1 diesel and my t4 just now and have never used the lever they never needed them even in the coldest weather.
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I took the fuel pipes leading to the fuel filter off and there was an oily smell, is this the smell of diesel? I've never got close enough to it to find out what it smells of.
All mobile mechanics I've tried around here are either busy/incorrect/non-existent numbers, I got hold of 1 bloke who can look tomorrow but I need to be at work tomorrow. C*nting cars eh?
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Found a mobile mechanic ! He's coming out at about 4pm.
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ouch :shocked: - good luck
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Hope you get it sorted.
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Been out again as it's annoying me sitting here waiting for the mechanic and noticed a bubble in the fuel line going to the fuel pump :shocked:
How the hell do you clear that? Take the line off the pump side & lift up to allow the air to escape then carefully lower it down, block it off with my thumb and quickly attach it to the pump again? or is there more to it than that?
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leave it to the " expert " you have coming - he see's you " tinkering " then he might walk away :wink:
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I won't be touching it now, just waiting for his call to say he's on his way. I don't quite know if he is an 'expert' on these motors, I found him on yell.com hopefully it's something simples like the water separator full or something... :undecided:
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The bubble is air, undo the bleed screw (should be on top the filter housing) then crank it over until fuel comes up.
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think jay must be out with the mobile
money printer mechanic now - hope its a quick n cheap fix :undecided:
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i think it went something like this, mechanic let out a big sigh,then a big oooh then followed by jay HOW MUCH :grin: :grin:
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:grin: That made me LARF Vaughn, I needed some of that.
Reet, Mechanic saw the air bubbles in the fuel line and done some investigating. Took the fuel pickup out the boot all looked clean, took the fuel pipes off to make sure fuel was getting through the filter which it was. Eventually after almost running my battery flat by cranking it over with the glow plugs(where spark plugs go on a 'gasser'?) loosened, he decided to take me out towing me and bump start it...
This got her going ! we pulled over and checked the fuel lines and tried revving her to see if she would cut out, all was fine so we took her round the Wallingford ring road got her home and checked over her for about a 1/2 hour revving her up, switching her on and off.
NO more air in the fuel lines... and she seems fine now !
Cost..
Keep guessing... :lipsrsealed:
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Hmmm.. not even 90 mins work? £75?
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£165
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:lipsrsealed: *gulp* :lipsrsealed:
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More than £165?! :shocked: :cry:
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Well he's from Reading so a good 20min+ drive.
He did seem a bit interested in Golf's and asked if I had any others before etc
A top lad he was, I will be calling him if I have any more problems I can't sort.
Price... well... it's a fun guessing game init? :lipsrsealed:
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Between £50 to £145.
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Alright alright I'll tell ya...
£30 :grin: :cool:
Fair deal, I was expecting at least £50 before he came out and because he had been there so long I was starting to panic and thought it was going to be £75 - £100 ...
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:cool: nice result !!
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Great result for £30
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£30 per thing he touched more like :grin:
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Nope £30 grand total :tongue:
I can send you his number if you like ? :tongue:
He seems like a fair bloke.
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OK, here's my take on your situation.
The 'choke' (or more precisely cold start assist) makes no difference to the running of the motor under normal conditions. It advances the timing up to a certain point, then has no effect. You will not have damaged your motor running with it out.
The clicking relays are fine. These are powering the glowplugs.
The only power you should have to the diesel pump is a 12V feed to the stop solenoid (already mentioned in here). This basically stops the fuel flow when there are no volts to it, thus it stops the motor. Stop solenoids are very simple and very, very rarely fail. I've only seen them replaced when people have been convinced it's them that are the problem and every time it's been something else, NOT the solenoid.
Has this motor sat around for a while, prior to you buying it?
Although you *can* sometimes get air bubbles in diesel fuel feeds, you shouldn't have them there under normal conditions. I would have said this is a cause for concern. Diesels like to have a nice, airless flow of fuel to the motor. They don't need a lift pump, as the injector pump on the engine pulls enough fuel through to the motor and it should be pulling it through devoid of any air. Check the connections to the fuel filter and any joints in the feed and/or return. If fuel is getting into the system somewhere it will properly screw how the motor runs.
The biggest concern at this point is that the pump seals have gone. They might have dried out if the car's been sat for a few months, doing nothing. Diesel pumps run extremely high internal pressure through to the injectors. If there is a leaking seal on the pump it may be oily around the drive sprocket on the cambelt - have a look in there. If it is letting air into the system during normal running this would account for the car stalling and lacking power - fuel feed is going intermittant, so not all cylinders are firing when they should.
Mechanical diesels like yours are VERY simple creatures. They need good compression, 12V feed and a solid supply of fuel to the diesel pump. If all that's in place there's not much excuse for them to not run (except knackered glowplugs, when the motor's cold). You need to confirm that the injector pump is not leaking air into the system. That would be my prime suspect in this situaiton.
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Used as a regular daily? Not down to be standing around.
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£30........you must have paid him something 'in kind' or he fancied your ar**........? :laugh:
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£30........you must have paid him something 'in kind' or he fancied your ar**........? :laugh:
you aint met jay have you :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
- my thoughts too mr DH - why was air getting in, and the car had done london - oxford then oxford leicester then the troubles started :undecided:
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my thoughts too mr DH - why was air getting in, and the car had done london - oxford then oxford leicester then the troubles started.
To be honest, given the age of the car it's unlikely to be the London - Leics that did it and more likely the 100k or so prior to that. What miles does it have on it?
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It has 181k on the clock, I will be changing the fuel filter as per instruction of the mechanic.
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It has 181k on the clock.
Oh.
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diesels collect air, it's a game they love to play. they'll build up the bubbels inthe injector pipes over time of course they cant keep hold of all the bubbels but onece they have saved up enough they throw a massive party and launch all the toys out of the pram, you put all the toys back in the pram ( bleed the injectors ) and all is fine till it next dose it.
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He tried bleeding the air out first, but it wouldn't budge.
Any tips on how to progressively bleed the air out? Is it just a case of loosening the injectors then tightening them up again?
Either way, this weekend it's time for a new alternator belt and fuel filter. Not sure which PAS belt to get as GSF list 2 different lengths :undecided:
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Get both as GSF will take back whichever one is worng as long as you don't fit it.
nick
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ta Nick :wink: Though by the time I've drove there and back again to return it I'd have used the fuel anyway (blasted Reading traffic :angry: ). I'm sure they won't mind me fitting it outside their shop :grin:
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One of the guys there will probably be able to look at your car and tell you which one. There's one fella that works there who used to have a supercharged VR MKII. I suspect one is for a car with PAS and the other non PAS models.
nick
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the old boy will sort ya if you take the car in, never has he let me down for al the cars i been in for bits, he normally just shouts numbers out to the 2 lads - who needs a PC :laugh:
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He tried bleeding the air out first, but it wouldn't budge.
Any tips on how to progressively bleed the air out? Is it just a case of loosening the injectors then tightening them up again?
Either way, this weekend it's time for a new alternator belt and fuel filter. Not sure which PAS belt to get as GSF list 2 different lengths :undecided:
Spot on, back each injector off in turn and you should get the air out.
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the old boy will sort ya if you take the car in, never has he let me down for al the cars i been in for bits, he normally just shouts numbers out to the 2 lads - who needs a PC :laugh:
my boss does this and scarily i can do it now too :-| and then get the piss ripped.. by DH and danny.. :laugh:
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Is that the older bloke @ GSF Reading? He was the 'german dude' and was shouting out the numbers to the 'french dude' who was serving me... well trying to serve me and get me the service parts :grin:
Wayne, cheers for that. I'll do it every now and then or if I spot air in the fuel lines.
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Do you have any pics of the beast Jay?
T opman
Ad :cool:
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Jay, I am certain the alternator belt was done early last year, along with the cambelt???????? I could be wog though. Might need tightening.
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It was squealing like a little piggy :grin:
I tightened it up and it looks OK and ain't making any more noise, if you're sure it was done last year I'll just keep the belts in the car as a backup.
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It was squealing like a little piggy :grin:
I tightened it up and it looks OK and ain't making any more noise, if you're sure it was done last year I'll just keep the belts in the car as a backup.
for what they cost (about £5-£8) its worth having a spare... i do. but then i buy them for about £1.50 (cost) :tongue:
also the alternator belt tension adjuster bolts (with the splined nut) can be bought off GSF for a few quid when you strip the spline off :grin:
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Spot on, back each injector off in turn and you should get the air out.
Sorry, but the VW diesels are self-bleeding. If there is air in the system it should works it's way through the system either while the motor is turning over, or when it's running. If you are seeing air in the system then it is being introduced somewhere along the way, which indicates there is something wrong and the air is the sympton, not the cause of your running issues.
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Spot on, back each injector off in turn and you should get the air out.
Sorry, but the VW diesels are self-bleeding. If there is air in the system it should works it's way through the system either while the motor is turning over, or when it's running. If you are seeing air in the system then it is being introduced somewhere along the way, which indicates there is something wrong and the air is the sympton, not the cause of your running issues.
So would you think it is drawing in air say through a failed olive on a fuel line maybe.
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That's possible, but because fuel line fittings are static I would look (depressingly) to pump seals as a more likely point of failure.
They're a hard working seal, which does wear.
What's it like on starting? Easy all the time, or randomly doesn't want to start very well.
Inspect all hard and soft fuel feed lines for condition and ANY dampness. I've seen the hard lines between the pump and the injectors corrode away and spray a fine mist into the engine bay before now. When the motor was shut off it was the pipe to fill with air, so the motor would start on three and gradually come up to four and then run fine.
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the old boy will sort ya if you take the car in, never has he let me down for al the cars i been in for bits, he normally just shouts numbers out to the 2 lads - who needs a PC :laugh:
my boss does this and scarily i can do it now too :-| and then get the piss ripped.. by DH and danny.. :laugh:
rubjohnny wannabe
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Usually if I turn the key to get the glow plug light on give it a second or two then switch on it starts right away. But when I first got it, I started it right away.
Should I let the glow plugs work their magic for a few seconds before attempting to start it up? Or should I start looking at the fuel pump/lines and seals?
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^I used to let the lights go off first before I started it. Glow plug thing?????
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It is because the glow plugs warm up diesel and make it easier to ignite, I've just had a few easy starts without having to wait, usually after a run so I guess the diesel in the pump is already warm enough to start up straight away.
Still loving it :cool:
Had a nod from a local bloke in a blue MK4 with body kit @ the Esso a few mins ago. He couldn't keep his eyes off of it :grin:
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I spent ages cleaning that sir! Does look good lil'red!
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I'll have to wash her round my mothers now, I cba to run up and down the stairs and across the car park with 2 buckets of water every few minutes :grin:
She sure does look good :cool:
I always loved the Tornado Red Golfs.
My brother in law REALLY wants it off of me :grin: I soon told him where to stick it :laugh:
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Should I let the glow plugs work their magic for a few seconds before attempting to start it up? Or should I start looking at the fuel pump/lines and seals?
The heaterplugs are on a temperature-sensitive timer controller. You should leave the light to go out and THEN start it.
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:lipsrsealed: