GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: synnea on 26 January 2009, 10:54
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Hello all,
My R32 for the past 3 weeks has had terrible issues with the brakes squealing as I come to a halt. Happens most when slowing from 30mph down to a stop in the wet and dry. The car was in for a service last Thursday and I explained to them the problem at my local dealer. The service guy advised me that the brake pads would be changed if needed.
On picking the car up I was told the brake pads were no where near needing changing. On hearing that I asked them well what is causing the squeaking of the brakes when I slow down to a stop. His reply was 'dust'. I assume he meant brake dust.
On driving home I thought that this 'dust' would have been cleared as part of the service but the squeaking of brakes is still there! It is now getting to the point that I cant bare it. My car never did it before until about 3 weeks ago. The service has made no difference unless there is something they havent done.
Can any over you shed some light if you have had this issue with any MK5 golf whether R32 like myself or GTI/ED 30 etc. I was about to phone my service dept back to tell them I still have the problem but wanted some opinions from here first. Any of you any idea of a cause and/or a fix? Thanks.
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When I first picked up mine in May it was squeaking, did it for a month or so and then just stoped. No idea what the cause or the fix was to be honest. I have heard that doing some big stop from 70MPH and some heavy brakeing can resolve it.
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find a nice quiet dual carriageway and give the brakes a good hard stomping.. mine have just started squeaking but my pads are low anyway so I got a full set of discs and pads at the weekend.
For your info, incase you need any of them, parts are:
Front vented disc - 81.06 + VAT each
Rear vented disc - 40.83 + VAT each
Front pad set - 59.69 + VAT
Rear pad set - 42.92 + VAT
Add the vat to that lot and you get about a quid change from 400 notes.
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Very common this time of year, often lower brake pressures used and build up of slime on braking surfaces.
Ask any biker who rides all year round, in these conditions you brake a lot lighter and the surfaces do not get scrubbed as well as warmer weather situations.
As stated, find a quiet straight area, get upto a good speed (you know what I mean) and brake hard and firm down to about 25mph, repeat this several times, allowing the discs to cool slightly each time, usually will work.
If not then, cleaning discs and pad surfaces will usually help, but is time consuming.
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ok all thanks for that. I will find a quiet road somewhere at a reasonable (safe) speed and give the brakes a good wack.
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^^ If this doesn't cure it you could try spreading some copper grease on the back of the pads.
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I have this problem from day one when I got my ED30. Been back to the dealer for about 5 times and they couldn't fault the brakes. I know what you mean it's a very annoying sound, happens just before the car comes to a stop.
I haven't try the hard braking method yet, need to try it out soon.
let us know the outcome.
cheers
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As said before, the pads are glazed. The garage I use for servicing takes the pads off and deglaze them as part of the service. Obviously VW don't.. :sad:
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The garage I use for servicing takes the pads off and deglaze them as part of the service.
have you actually witnessed that for yourself? never ever heard of a garage doing that
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I have this problem from day one when I got my ED30. Been back to the dealer for about 5 times and they couldn't fault the brakes. I know what you mean it's a very annoying sound, happens just before the car comes to a stop.
I haven't try the hard braking method yet, need to try it out soon.
let us know the outcome.
cheers
Highly embarassing, picking the wife up from work yesterday, saw a few wee lads having a look at my nice deep blue baby (thats the car, not the wife...) then the damn squeal of the brakes was enough to scatter the crowd as I stopped to let the wife in :undecided:
Im meeting some friends tonight for a feed and then cinema so will be heading home late. Clear roads and a chance to do some hard braking. Will let you know tomorrow if it has made any difference.
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The garage I use for servicing takes the pads off and deglaze them as part of the service.
have you actually witnessed that for yourself? never ever heard of a garage doing that
No never seen them do it, its itemised on the bill. I have used them for a few years and they have never been anything other than scrupulously honest. They deff take the pads off as I can see the fresh copper grease. The brakes do feel a little sharper too but that could be a placebo. Its a little garage run by a father and son and they are quite old fashioned in some ways.....like you don't pay when you pick up your car, they send you a bill a month later!
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If your pads are glazed from new, it is very hard to cure, its the resin in the new pads overheating and turning to gas, which then sticks to the surface of the pad ie glazes it.
You can take the pads out and use something abrasive on them like a file, but more often than not the problem reappears, had this many times on racebikes.
Its all down to correct bedding in of the pads from new.
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mine do it, tried breaking hard, no luck.. its horrid
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Exact same problem here mate! Got really bad at one point just before it went in for a service, but when I got it back it was fine for a couple of weeks. Now its beyond a joke... almost to the point of embarassment :embarassed:
Will try the hard braking technique tonight to see if it improves anything. Did get my mechanic to have a quick check to see if the pads are worn down and he has said they will be ok for a while... :undecided:
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I'm really interested if this heavy braking cure works. Luckily I live not far away from the local racetrack, er I mean bypass :laugh: and I use it everyday to get to and from work so not expecting any brake squeeling! :grin: But my mate had this issue with his classic scooby and the heavy braking really worked! :smiley:
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I have the same problem too, only when coming to a stop from speeds around 30mph ish. Mine was in for a service last week and they told me my car was in 'perfect' condition - not even any advisory items and that the squealing was not due to pad wear. its really frustrating me, as i'm sure it is all of you. let me know how the hard breaking goes!
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Interesting to know that is not just me then. I didnt get a chance last night to try the braking as the roads were busier than normal so I will make a point to go out late tonight to try it and let you all know.
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Im shocked at how many people are having this problem. Clearly this is a design flaw of some sort.
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Still squeeking!
Tried the braking thing on the way home last night, but again it was a little too busy to do it to the full extent. Braking from what kind of speeds are we talking? and should I be braking til stop?
thanks
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My R32 for the past 3 weeks has had terrible issues with the brakes squealing as I come to a halt. Happens most when slowing from 30mph down to a stop in the wet and dry.
As others have said - a common fault at this time of the year - particularly if the roads have been salted. It is basically the brake pads seizing in the calipers - due to a variety of reasons. Do you park your car outside, or in a garage? Garage parking can actually make the problem worse. A good tip is to get a pumpy uppy garden sprayer, keep it filled with plain water, and when you get home each evening, let the brakes cool down for ½hour, then spray water all over the discs, pads and calipers - and this should wash the salt away.
The car was in for a service last Thursday and I explained to them the problem at my local dealer. The service guy advised me that the brake pads would be changed if needed.
A "service" is just a visual inspection of the brakes, so no dismantling or cleaning is carried out on them. If you did specifically make it clear that you also wanted them to check out the specific problem, then this would be work charged at an additional cost (but which can be claimed under warranty).
On picking the car up I was told the brake pads were no where near needing changing. On hearing that I asked them well what is causing the squeaking of the brakes when I slow down to a stop. His reply was 'dust'. I assume he meant brake dust.
"Stock" answer which seems to be prevalent by the majority of monkies employed by main stealers these days . . . :rolleyes: Whilst a build up of brake dust may cause brake squeal - 99% of the time (on non-drilled and non-floating discs), it is caused by the pads seizing in the calipers.
On driving home I thought that this 'dust' would have been cleared as part of the service but the squeaking of brakes is still there! It is now getting to the point that I cant bare it. My car never did it before until about 3 weeks ago. The service has made no difference unless there is something they havent done.
As above, a service alone wont do anything to rectify this specific problem (actually, a service wont rectify ANY problems - because "services" are not "diagnostic" operations). But if you are sure you specifically asked them to investigate "squealing brakes" or similar - then the stealer has failed you.
Can any over you shed some light if you have had this issue with any MK5 golf whether R32 like myself or GTI/ED 30 etc. I was about to phone my service dept back to tell them I still have the problem but wanted some opinions from here first. Any of you any idea of a cause and/or a fix? Thanks.
Are you good with spanners? And don't mind working on your brakes? If so, get hold of some NICKEL based anti-seize compound. Cromwell Industrial Supplies over the counter branches - find them on www.Cromwell.co.uk - sell some stuff called "Bostic Never-Seez Pure Nickel Special - NSN165" (they may have to order it from their central depot in Wigston). It is about £30 for a 1lb tin, but will last for years. Others have recommended using copper based anti-seize greases, but most are shyte, and will wash off very quickly - not a prob if you live in Dubai, but shyte in Blighty.
Strip your brakes down, clean all the rust, dust and general crud from the pads and calipers - taking particular detail with the "hammer heads" on the pads, the grooves in the calipers where the hammer heads slide. Also clean the inside of the brake piston, and the contact surfaces of the pad back plates. Then smear anti-seize paste on all the metalic sliding parts (the hammer heads & back plates of the pads, the contact face and the inside groove of the piston, and the pad grooves and contact surface of the caliper), and reassemble. As a rule of thumb, for each individual caliper, between one and two "pea-sizes" of anti-seize paste should suffice - any less, and it is likley not to be effective - and any more, and it will just get wasted.
Do NOT use any petroleum based grease or oils (copper grease, nickel grease, lithium grease, WD-40, etc) on ANY rubber components - particularly the caliper piston rubber dust seal, or the caliper rubber bushes for the slide pins. You must only use a generic silicone grease (Rocol AquaSil - also from Cromwell), or a specific "brake rubberlube" grease (which may be either silicone or a highly refined lithium grease) such as "Delphi/Lockheed Rubberlube". If you use incorrect greases on these areas, the petroleum content attacks the rubber, and causes it to swell, disfigure, and eventually rupture. This can ruin the caliper piston bore (through the ingress of grit), or cause the brakes to bind (where the rubber bushes swell on the sliding pins).
HTH
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^^ If this doesn't cure it you could try spreading some copper grease on the back of the pads.
Most copper greases are shyte (most copper greases are not fully waterproof, and most are quite abrasive too) - and you will need it on more than just the back of the pads.
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As said before, the pads are glazed. The garage I use for servicing takes the pads off and deglaze them as part of the service. Obviously VW don't.. :sad:
Erm, unless you are constantly doing track days, I very much doubt that the pads are glazed, especially at this time of year! :rolleyes:
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I'm really interested if this heavy braking cure works. Luckily I live not far away from the local racetrack, er I mean bypass :laugh: and I use it everyday to get to and from work so not expecting any brake squeeling! :grin: But my mate had this issue with his classic scooby and the heavy braking really worked! :smiley:
But the "heavy braking technique" is just a Band-Aid type of remedy. Unless the pads and calipers are correctly dismantled, cleaned and lubed with anti-seize paste, then the squeal will reappear very shortly afterwards.
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Im shocked at how many people are having this problem. Clearly this is a design flaw of some sort.
Nope, all disc brakes, from all brake and vehicle manufacturers are prone to this. The flaw simply arises from poor preventative maintenance. :rolleyes:
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Thats TT!!! Thats a cracker load of useful info. I will try the pumpy uppy garden sprayer first for a few days and see if that helps. I am handy enough with a spanner but just not sure about working on my brakes to be honest...but if there is no improvement I will take a look and see. Thanks again.
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Back up TT's advice on copper grease, its the worst thing for barke backplates and guides, just attracts crud until it builds up into a gooey mass.
Due to the Japs mentality of thinking that motorcycles are only ridden on warm sunny days, the calipers are very prone to this issue, and TT's advice is spot on, on a bike I find I have to remove the pads and clean everything twice a winter. Bit easier as access is simple.
Another product I have used and found good results is Plastilube, available from your local BMW dealer or online, a tube lasts years, manufactured by ATE
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Back up TT's advice on copper grease, its the worst thing for barke backplates and guides, just attracts crud until it builds up into a gooey mass.
Woof, woof! :evil: :evil: :evil:
Sorry, couldn't resist. :wink: :grin:
Seriously though, any kind of "grease" can attract road crud.
The real issue with the vast majority of copper greases is that they are specifically NOT a lubricant - they are just an anti-sieze assembly compound, which is find stuff that doesn't need to 'move', such as exhaust bolts, or road wheel bolts and the likes. But brake pads do need to be able to move in the calipers to work. Another problem with some, but not all copper greases, is down to the physical size of the actual particles of copper. Some are large enough to actually be an abrasive, and can actually wear the grooves in the calipers where the pad hammer heads slide (obviously, this is not a 'quick' process) and I have often witnessed 'steps' in the caliper grooves - which will then result in serious in-efficiencies of the free movement of the pad, hence less efficient braking effect.
One final, crucially important, but often overlooked problem with copper grease - is that it can react in an adverse way with certain alloys in some calipers. I actually think that Brembo, Alcon and AP Racing prohibit the use of copper grease - and I reckon calipers like Tarox and ECS would also be the same. For these, it is safe to use a nickel or aluminium based anti-seize and lubricating compound, or they may recommend a very specialised ultra high temp silicone or lithium based lubricant.
There is only ONE copper grease I would ever formally recommend for use on brake calipers - the original and best, made by MolySlip, called "Copaslip" (hard to get, but Cromwell Industrial Supplies stock it). The reason I recommend Bostick Never-Seze NSN165 Pure Nickel Special is simply because not only does it have superb anti-seize properties, but it also has very good lubricating properties (due to the ultra fine size of the particles - 50 microns, and the fact that nickel is similar to graphite or molybdenum disulphide, in that it has 'natural' lubricating properties, wheres copper doesn't). It also has a much higher temperature tollerance compared to any copper grease (up to 1315 deg C, whereas most pure copper greases struggle to reach 1000 deg C, and copper/complex greases can only reach 1100 deg C).
Due to the Japs mentality of thinking that motorcycles are only ridden on warm sunny days, the calipers are very prone to this issue, and TT's advice is spot on, on a bike I find I have to remove the pads and clean everything twice a winter. Bit easier as access is simple.
Ahhhh, another of the big problems of Jap bikes is due to the fact that the pistons in the calipers don't have any outer dust seals - which causes the pistons to seize up too. Add that to the fact that motorcycle brake components are seriously light in weight, if you happen to apply the brake hard when the pad edges have seized, you basically end up actually bending the pad backplate.
BTW, what thread sealant do you use on the caliper retaining bolts? And does your Blade have radial caliper mounts?
Another product I have used and found good results is Plastilube, available from your local BMW dealer or online, a tube lasts years, manufactured by ATE
Just a slight pedantic correction :wink: - plastilube® {small leading 'p' due to the trademark :tongue:} is actually made by Henkel KGaA (who own the Loctite company), and is then licensed to ATE and is made available in ATE-branded tubes. :nerd:
Nerd mode over, what size tubes do you get it in from BMW? Because you can also get it from any VAG stealer (or TPS) in small 35ml tubes (part number 111 999 319) for £3.19 retail +vat. And where do you get it online? I did try previously, but drew a blank, so gave up! :embarassed:
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Hey TT glad you spotted my 'barke' backplates, possibly the cause of the squealing...poor doggy :sick:
Yep it has radials and use blue loctite 243
ahh I picked up a couple of tubes in the states a couple of years back the same size 35ml