GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: ifti on 19 January 2009, 10:51
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Hi all
I havent got a GTI yet, but am very interested in getting one around May/June of this year. I'd like a MK5 model, maybe around £12-13k to spend.
Anyways, Im still thinking about whether I would want DSG or not. Obviously its quite a breakthrough, and the fact that the car is faster is quite obvious given the fact that you lose no momentum when changing gear etc and with 'Launch Control'. However, Im still a little confused and have a few questions. I would be very grateful for any replies. Ive been browsing the forum for a while and have the jist about DSG, but still have many questions....Im not looking for an arguement about why manual is better, or why DSG is better, since we've had that in another thread already. Im just after a better understanding of DSG overall....
Here I go.....
Automatic
1. When in auto mode, Im assuming the gears change quite early in the revs? Hence you should be able to get better MPG? Am I correct in assuming this? If so it would be perfect since I could use that to get to work and back, then shift it into manual for when I want some fun!
Manual
2. When using manual, I understand you can shift up/down with the Gear Knob, or the paddles (if you have them). However, is it true that if you reach the 'redline' on the revs, the car shifts up for you anyway?
3. Does the dash display the current gear you are in?
4. If you are traveling in 4th Gear, and you come to a 2nd Gear corner, as you brake do you have to shift down or does the car shift down automatically as you brake? If you need to shift down yourself, does the car jolt as you shift down to a lower gear which doesnt match the revs?
5. Ive heard talk of the car jolting, and not being smooth, when using the manual transmission in lower gears - is this correct? If so, why does this happen and can it be corrected by the driver?
6. When changing up a gear, do you need to remove your foot from the accelerator, and then put your foot down again - as you would if you had a clutch pedal - or do you just keep your foot where it is and not release the pedel at all?
7. Is it correct that when in manual you cant change gear while turning, say around a roundabout, for example?
Sport
8. So in this mode, the car is in automatic tranny, but takes the revs to the highest point between each gear change?
9. Why would someone use this over the manual mode in that case? Since even with manual if you reach the top rev, it will shift up for you - just as sport does?!
Launch Control
10. I understand you can use this with both Sport and Manual tranny modes - what happens if you use Launch Control with ESP still on?
11. When in sport or manual, by keeping your foot on the brake, bringing the car to 2400rpm, then letting go of the brake, do you automatically use Launch Control, or is there some other button etc to be pressed to inform the car you want to 'launch'?
Overall
12. When changing between manual/auto/sport modes, do you need to bring the car to a stop, or can you change even while the car is moving?
Sorry for so many questions, but I want to fully understand DSG before I either get it, or rule it out.
The added bonus is that the wife only drives auto cars, so she could drive it as well - if I ever let her (although its a good arguement in convincing her that we want a GTI ;) ) Although Im concerned that not having a manual will take all the fun away from driving, and make driving 'boring'.......
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first time in a dsg yesterday. def will NOT take the fun out of driving. i am converted mate!!!
yeah all your points seem there,but bear in mind i only tested one few hours ago so i might have forgot some pointers!
matsu
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Hi all
I havent got a GTI yet, but am very interested in getting one around May/June of this year. I'd like a MK5 model, maybe around £12-13k to spend.
Anyways, Im still thinking about whether I would want DSG or not. Obviously its quite a breakthrough, and the fact that the car is faster is quite obvious given the fact that you lose no momentum when changing gear etc and with 'Launch Control'. However, Im still a little confused and have a few questions. I would be very grateful for any replies. Ive been browsing the forum for a while and have the jist about DSG, but still have many questions....Im not looking for an arguement about why manual is better, or why DSG is better, since we've had that in another thread already. Im just after a better understanding of DSG overall....
Here I go.....
Automatic
1. When in auto mode, Im assuming the gears change quite early in the revs? Hence you should be able to get better MPG? Am I correct in assuming this? If so it would be perfect since I could use that to get to work and back, then shift it into manual for when I want some fun!
Manual
2. When using manual, I understand you can shift up/down with the Gear Knob, or the paddles (if you have them). However, is it true that if you reach the 'redline' on the revs, the car shifts up for you anyway?
3. Does the dash display the current gear you are in?
4. If you are traveling in 4th Gear, and you come to a 2nd Gear corner, as you brake do you have to shift down or does the car shift down automatically as you brake? If you need to shift down yourself, does the car jolt as you shift down to a lower gear which doesnt match the revs?
5. Ive heard talk of the car jolting, and not being smooth, when using the manual transmission in lower gears - is this correct? If so, why does this happen and can it be corrected by the driver?
6. When changing up a gear, do you need to remove your foot from the accelerator, and then put your foot down again - as you would if you had a clutch pedal - or do you just keep your foot where it is and not release the pedel at all?
7. Is it correct that when in manual you cant change gear while turning, say around a roundabout, for example?
Sport
8. So in this mode, the car is in automatic tranny, but takes the revs to the highest point between each gear change?
9. Why would someone use this over the manual mode in that case? Since even with manual if you reach the top rev, it will shift up for you - just as sport does?!
Launch Control
10. I understand you can use this with both Sport and Manual tranny modes - what happens if you use Launch Control with ESP still on?
11. When in sport or manual, by keeping your foot on the brake, bringing the car to 2400rpm, then letting go of the brake, do you automatically use Launch Control, or is there some other button etc to be pressed to inform the car you want to 'launch'?
Overall
12. When changing between manual/auto/sport modes, do you need to bring the car to a stop, or can you change even while the car is moving?
Sorry for so many questions, but I want to fully understand DSG before I either get it, or rule it out.
The added bonus is that the wife only drives auto cars, so she could drive it as well - if I ever let her (although its a good arguement in convincing her that we want a GTI ;) ) Although Im concerned that not having a manual will take all the fun away from driving, and make driving 'boring'.......
I have a DSG Ed 30 ... I live near London in a world of traffic and speed humps... so love the DSG. I still feel though that for true control a manual is going to be better .... just that for me, and my driving style I prefer the DSG. If every day were a 'B' road I would want a manual. Life, though, is a bit different most of the time!
In answer to your questions :
1. Yes.
2. Yes - it will not bang into the limiter; it changes anyway.
3. Yes.
4. It shifts itself in auto ... if in manual and you don't shift down it will still do it for you as once you reach a point - having not changed down to an appropriate gear - the gearbox does it anyway .... though this is not a good way to drive it as it only changes like this when it absolutely has to.
5. Mine is fine - though the ECU for the gearbox learns your driving style and this can probably affect how smooth it is in manual mode.
6. It is just like a full auto - keep your foot on the pedal and it does it for you.
7. No, don't think that is the case - if steering is 'set' in a roundabout it just changes as normal. I don't think there is a steering sensor like on say he Mazda 3 MPS that won't give full boost when steering.
8. Yes.
9. Because in manual mode you can hold a gear at certain revs, say between corners, as opposed to change whereas in sports mode if you stay at certain revs for say 10 seconds it will probably drop into the next gear - depending on the circumstances - as it doesn't truly know exactly what you want .... in manual mode you have loads more control. 'Sport' is really a more aggressive 'drive' mode that holds revs and is more 'reluctant' to change up.
10. You can't - it won't engage unless it's off.
11. See above - you need to turn the TC / ESP off and follow a sequence which is explained in the manual.
12. No, can change on the move no problem - I do it all the time depending on the road and circumstances.
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Brill, you've been very helpful and I understand DSG a little better now.
Its a tough choice to make and I dont want to make the wrong one and bugger myself up!
I mainly drive on motorways to get to work and back, and do a bit of town driving - where auto would come in useful I guess. On most mornings I get stuck in some traffic in certain spots - which is why I think the auto would be cool. And then when I get into open areas etc I could shift it into manual and plant my right foot down!
Does it take long to get used to the manual pedals etc with DSG, considering Ive only ever driven a full auto, or a full manual before?
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never mind, should read the thread first before posting
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Agree with whats wrote, some comments...
1. Although correct, all depends on how heavy your foot it to when it changes
4. If your in manual, the gearbox wont work at a gear it cant so it changes to what it needs. When driving in manual I find this really good as you can forget your in manual when pulling upto lights so you can let it do what it needs - there is no problem doing this.
5. During driving I dont notice any jolts. When going from D to R and back its good to give the car a couple of secs to engage the gear before hitting the throttle otherwise on occasion you can get a jolt - which isnt helpful when reversing into a space for example.
6. Thats the great thing, just keep it planted :wink:
7. You can change whilst cornering
I find the DSG a great tool, makes for easy town driving, fun country road driving - it really is the best of both worlds.
It does take a little getting used to how it works but once your there its great. I dont like kickdown, I prefer to use manual and choose the gear myself. When using manual its best to foot down and then change to get the best response as the gearbox then knows your wanting to go faster, rather than chance then foot down - which could be where people get a slight jolt from.
Either way you'll love it and struggle without it after you've been in one for while.
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Brill, you've been very helpful and I understand DSG a little better now.
Its a tough choice to make and I dont want to make the wrong one and bugger myself up!
I mainly drive on motorways to get to work and back, and do a bit of town driving - where auto would come in useful I guess. On most mornings I get stuck in some traffic in certain spots - which is why I think the auto would be cool. And then when I get into open areas etc I could shift it into manual and plant my right foot down!
Does it take long to get used to the manual pedals etc with DSG, considering Ive only ever driven a full auto, or a full manual before?
Do you mean manual paddles?
If so then they do take a little getting used to. The issue I had is that the paddles are mounted to the wheel and as such rotate with it. This can make it a little awkward to use, say when setting off and turning at a T junction. For this maneouvre I used to drop back to using the + and - on the gearstick. Now I have fitted extensions to the paddles they are much easier to use and I no longer have to drop back to the gearstick. :cool:
The pedals on the floor are the same as an auto. :smiley:
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Sounds obvious but the best way to decide whether to go DSG or not is a test drive, from talking to others it seems you either love it or hate it - I tried both and absolutely loved the DSG, so went for it. The seamless power as you accelerate is addictive! Plus you can just chill out in drive (auto) mode in heavy traffic or the motorway, or flick through the gears manually using the paddles or the stick - it really does suit all types of driving in my opinion, you just go between manual and auto as driving conditions change.
Just one point on the jerkiness you mentioned in question 5. I find the box super smooth at all times in drive (auto), and the same in manual when going up through the gears. However, as you've been told, I do find it can occasionally be slightly jerky, in manual mode when you change down into 2nd or 1st when coming to a stop, this is regardless of whether you change down yourself or let the box do it itself (which it will do if you don't change down yourself to avoid stalling the engine.) I'd be interested to know if this is a characteristic that others have noticed. I kind of expected it with a dual clutch in the lower gears compared to the standard auto torque converters that smooth out the changes, but if everyone else always gets silky smooth changes changing down in the lower gears then maybe it needs looking at.
ATB
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Really appreciate all the responses, thanks guys ;)
I didnt want to just base my decision on a test drive, since I know it would take a little while to get used to and I dont want to be put off with the big change on a single drive - hence the reason why I wanted your views.
Having a dual cluth, are there any known issues with DSG?? Am I going to be looking at having it repaired more often then a manual?? I ask as I understand BMW M3 owners regularly had their cars taken back to the garage with their SMG issues!
I guess it could be down to how you drive or on tha basis that, if somet is fonna happen, its gonna happen no matter what!
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Some people have had problems with the electroins unit but really these seem to get picked up early in its life - a few of us now have over 50k miles on DSG boxes and are remapped.
Edit: You do have to have the DSG oil changed every 40k miles which can be a couple of hundred quid
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Oh I didnt know that - is the DSG oil changed at a service, or do you need to keep your eye out yourself and get it changed every 40k miles?
I thought they changed the oil in the car at every service anyways?....
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The dealer will prompt you - or should! The DSG service is seperate to the engine oil change.
Oil service is when the car prompts for it - mileage depends on Long Life or Distance intervals. DSG is recommended every 40k, you dont need to keep an eye on it - well I dont think there is much to keep an eye on!
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The DSG clutches are wet plate clutches and are designed to last the lifetime of the car......if it stays standard!
So overall the DSG should prove a little cheaper as you shouldn't have to worry about a burnt/worn clutch like in manual cars. :smiley:
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Thanks yet again - Im glad I found this forum, you guys are well helpful!
So, the DSG oil costs around £200 every 40k miles??
I guess thats a reasonable price considering the amount of fun you get from it!
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Thanks yet again - Im glad I found this forum, you guys are well helpful!
So, the DSG oil costs around £200 every 40k miles??
I guess thats a reasonable price considering the amount of fun you get from it!
Oh, yeah not a massive cost for all that easy and quick shifting :evil:
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The DSG oil change is at 40k or 4 years if T&D service schedule, involves new oil and filter. Think it takes approx 6 litres of oil, so most of the cost is oil, and it appears complex from couple of DIY guides I've read, so probably best left to dealer.
On your M3 SMG comment, its a totally different system, the SMG is a single clutch. Most SMG problems are the hydraulic pump and control unit. Its a constant talking point on M3 forums, bit like here , what is best manual or SMG/DSG, but I do not think the SMG's overall are a high failure rate, and it is unusual to hear of a SMG complete gearbox failure, and those things get really abused, but you really cannot compare the 2 systems.
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Yup you're probably right to be honest. That and the fact that most people tend to come on forums when they have a problem in the first instance! Im really tempted to go for the DSG to be honest!
Looking at all you guys with your motor's is making me wanta GTI right now!! lol
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its been said before...and I make no excuses for saying it again....DSG ROCKS!!! :cool: :cool:
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I bought my GTi in Jan 2008 and absolutely love it. One thing I hadnt realised mine didnt have was the 2nd computer screen n the dash that shows you which gear you are in. (large font)
This may sound like a small point but i have driven the scirrccoo recently and showing the gear in large font makes a big difference knowing (seeing) which gear you are in.
Crack on with the dsg box but do make sure you have the 2nd screen. I think it may be called the hiline computer...
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The highline computer on the golf does display the current gear but not in a large font, its the same size as all the other text (time etc).
Having owned only manual cars in the past I was a little bit disappointed by the DSG at first, it really does take a while to get used to and you are right not to rely on a test drive to make your mind up. At first I mostly used 'D' and relied on kickdown when extra power was called upon. However you'll soon learn to either use 'S' or 'manual' when driving enthusiastically as its much more responsive. Overall I find DSG handy for the daily commute and when on B roads you can always fall back on manual mode for the fun factor.
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I'm on my third VAG car with DSG, previously owned an A3 S-line, Mk V R32 and now the Ed 30.
Most of what can be said about the DSG has been covered in the earlier comments.
I've also got a new E92 3 Series Coupe 330 Auto. The DSG box is far superior. It is a fantastically quick and smooth shifter. My son has a manual MK IV R32 and when he floors it, which he does regularly, if you are a passenger, you need your neck braced as you do the impression of a nodding dog on acid. Floor the DSG in sport and it's just a seamless surge of power until you reach the national speed limit very very quickly, and you can keep both hands on the wheel. My lad wouldn't contemplate a race with me as he knows he'd be left behind and his pride wouldn't allow it.
I'm just loving the DSG, it is a fantastic piece of technology, I understand Mitsubishi are now using this in their Lancers and BMW are bringing out a dual clutch auto.
Go for it. :smug:
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Yes, it does seem that all the other manufacturers are jumping on the DSG wagon :grin:
Mitsubishi
Bugatti
Porsche
BMW
Nissan
I'm sure there's more too.
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Wouldnt Porkas version be the same as our own DSG?
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Wouldnt Porkas version be the same as our own DSG?
I imagine it wont be far from it
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I thought that with all DSG GTI's you got the second computer which showed the gear you are in??
So does that mean some models do not show your current gear?? Thats a bit silly IMO. I dont want to have to constantly count the gears and remember which Im in!
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I thought that with all DSG GTI's you got the second computer which showed the gear you are in??
So does that mean some models do not show your current gear?? Thats a bit silly IMO. I dont want to have to constantly count the gears and remember which Im in!
ALL GTI's show you which gear you are in on dash readout. :smiley:
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I am sure the Highline is useful (i have it but I am sure I rarely use it, MPG? maybe? och who cares its just digital doo dah) ....but dont actually know why the marketing/product people just dont make it all standard, surely the unit cost per car is in the pennies/ cents. I guess its just another way of eeeeeeking out more dosh from from the customer.
Pathetic.
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Both midline AND highline computer will tell you what gear you are in :)
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OK, Im getting a little confused now!
What exactly are midline and highline??
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OK, Im getting a little confused now!
What exactly are midline and highline??
They are the computer & display on your dash
Midline comes standard and Highline is an optional extra (but worth it)
Some more info here :
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=40905.0
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I guess the only fear I have with DSG is its likliness to fail. Are failures common? As Im sure replacing a DSG system would be MUCH more expensive then the standard manual!
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For the last 30 years I have never wanted a Golf. Ugly bugs. Even when the GTI came out my Alfasud was better.
But I did want the new gearbox.
I wont buy a car now unless it offers a significant technical improvement (so no Mk6 for me) and the DSG sounded like a fantastic leap forward in the history of motoring.
My new GTI came in April last year. The DSG is so good I never bother driving my manual BMW, it stays in the garage.
The GTI attached to the gearbox is quite good too.
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Yup, I totally agree with Egbert. Friends say that it's lazy driving and that they don't like automatics as you're not as connected to the driving experience.
What a load of tosh.
After 11 years of driving manuals, having not to constantly changing gears in stop/start town traffic is a god send and if I want to change gears then I have those handy dandy little paddles behind the steering wheel. Plus the smooth power delivery is amazing. You can hardly feel it changing up. Best of both worlds.
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Not sure anyone can honestly tell you what the failure rate of the DSG box is. Anyone with early DSG boxes on here had any problems with them? From what I hear on the forum is that early DSG boxes had problems with a Mechatronic thinga-ma-bob that needed to be swapped out.
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OK, others have answered some, or all of the points, but there are a few finite details missing. Forgive me if I happen to repeat what has already been said. :wink: :smiley:
Automatic
1. When in auto mode, Im assuming the gears change quite early in the revs? Hence you should be able to get better MPG? Am I correct in assuming this? If so it would be perfect since I could use that to get to work and back, then shift it into manual for when I want some fun!
Yes and no!
You need to be aware that the DSG uses 'fuzzy logic' in its electronics, and has an 'adaptive' shift pattern. This basically means that the gearbox ECU can effective 'learn' your driving style, and will actually adapt the shift changes in auto to suit your style. Obviously, this all takes some time, and isnt instantaneous. So, to use the standard GTI as an example - before the 'box has learnt your driving style, under normal or moderate throttle openings, the box will have changed into 6th gear at around 32mph. Now, if you happen to be a driver who regularly likes to drive it like you stole it, ie giving it some welly, then the ECU will actually modify the shift patterns to change progressively higher up the rev range - so you may find that it may not go into 6th until say 60mph. The downshifts are also modified accordingly too - so if you are finding that 6th only appears with 60mph on the speedo, you will also get much better engine braking too, due to downshifts higher up the rev range.
This adaptive lark will never quite reach the shift pattern changes of sport mode though, and will never reach the red line (unless you have activated kick-down).
Manual
2. When using manual, I understand you can shift up/down with the Gear Knob, or the paddles (if you have them). However, is it true that if you reach the 'redline' on the revs, the car shifts up for you anyway?
Yup. Although technically, it shouldn't actually reach the rev-limiter.
3. Does the dash display the current gear you are in?
Yup - unless the dash panel insert is fooked! :wink:
Actually, I think different 'model year' cars have a slight difference in the display, and it is also slightly different between the midline and the highline computers.
4. If you are traveling in 4th Gear, and you come to a 2nd Gear corner, as you brake do you have to shift down or does the car shift down automatically as you brake? If you need to shift down yourself, does the car jolt as you shift down to a lower gear which doesnt match the revs?
The box will automatically change down as the revs get close to the idle speed. All downshifts like these are barely noticeable. However, if you downshift (or upshift) yourself, particularly in a manner 'opposite' to what the box was expecting, then you can 'confuse' the box, resulting in a small delay in shift change. It is extremely rare for the car to jolt whilst the vehicle is in motion. Jolting usually occurs when stationary, and you try to 'rush' the box.
5. Ive heard talk of the car jolting, and not being smooth, when using the manual transmission in lower gears - is this correct? If so, why does this happen and can it be corrected by the driver?
Not really common at all. See my answer to the above point.
6. When changing up a gear, do you need to remove your foot from the accelerator, and then put your foot down again - as you would if you had a clutch pedal - or do you just keep your foot where it is and not release the pedel at all?
Nope, you can keep the pedal burried in the carpet to the floor boards when changing up manually - and still get a nice smooth change. I would actually state that if you were to take your foot off the gas, then the quality of the shift would be noticeabley poorer - the DSG, just like all automatics, are actually designed to allow gear changes whilst still keeping the throttle open. You can also keep the pedal mashed to the floor when changing down - although the shift quality will be much harsher, and you may actually find a delay in shift change (because you have confused the box).
7. Is it correct that when in manual you cant change gear while turning, say around a roundabout, for example?
Nope. You can change the gear (if you so desire) anywhere from full left lock to full right lock, and anywhere in between.
Sport
8. So in this mode, the car is in automatic tranny, but takes the revs to the highest point between each gear change?
Yup. Dependent on oil temps (engine and box), it can go all the way to the red line. It also down changes much higher up the rev range too. :cool:
A bit of a moot comment though - try not to use sport mode in 30mph built up areas. Because you will probably be doing abou 5,000rpm in second gear at 30mph, it could appear to others as though you are driving in a bit of an 'anti-social' or agressive manner. So it is best to leave sport mode for NSLs, B roads and the like. :wink:
Oh, and NEVER use sport mode until the engine is at normal operating temperature. Whilst it is warming up, it is best to leave it in normal auto mode, as when cold, the auto shift times are programmed to change in a manner which helps the most rapid warm up of the engine.
9. Why would someone use this over the manual mode in that case? Since even with manual if you reach the top rev, it will shift up for you - just as sport does?!
Maybe they want to have some 'lazy' fun?! And don't forget, it is a good idea to simply check that it actually works too. And there may be others who just cant get on with the paddles or floor shift lever - my SWMBO hardly ever uses the paddles, but often uses sport mode. And don't forget the disabled - they are allowed fun too! :wink:
Launch Control
10. I understand you can use this with both Sport and Manual tranny modes - what happens if you use Launch Control with ESP still on?
It won't work. You'll just get a normal, but still rapid acceleration, but the traction control is likely to kick in.
11. When in sport or manual, by keeping your foot on the brake, bringing the car to 2400rpm, then letting go of the brake, do you automatically use Launch Control, or is there some other button etc to be pressed to inform the car you want to 'launch'?
Nothing else to twiddle with. And you can also keep the accelerator pedal mashed to the floor whilst holding it on the brakes, and, depending on what car you actually have, the electronics will just hold the engine revs at around 3,000 rpm (4motions slightly higher, diesels slightly lower). Once you release the foot brake, just keep the gas pedal to the floor, and when the front tyres grip, it will rev up to the red line in 1st before changing up. The electronics are still a bit 'nanny' though, in that they wont allow the front tyres to smoke on the spot on the red line whislt the rears are still stationary.
Overall
12. When changing between manual/auto/sport modes, do you need to bring the car to a stop, or can you change even while the car is moving?
Nope, you can change between any of the modes at any time - obviously whilst stationary or travelling in a forward direction. It you are reversing, and bang it into sport mode whilst still going backwards, your clutch packs might call for an early retirement.
Sorry for so many questions, but I want to fully understand DSG before I either get it, or rule it out.
No worries about asking questions. What I would say though, is to actually have a drive in it - a long drive, ideally an all day test drive, unaccompanied, so that you fully experiment, and get used to it. There is nothing more irritating than having some salesperson sitting in the car, and frowning at any slight error you may make.
The added bonus is that the wife only drives auto cars, so she could drive it as well - if I ever let her (although its a good arguement in convincing her that we want a GTI ;) ) Although Im concerned that not having a manual will take all the fun away from driving, and make driving 'boring'.......
Whatever ANYONE eles says, having a DSG will NOT take away any fun from driving a normal manual. Look at my sig, and you will see I also have a V8 RS4 (which is a six speed Getrag manual, arguably the finest manual gearbox on the planet) - and both the RS4 and the GTI DSG can be equally enjoyable and rewarding to drive. If only the GTI came with a V8 soundtrack . . . . :evil:
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<snippage>
5. Mine is fine - though the ECU for the gearbox learns your driving style and this can probably affect how smooth it is in manual mode.
If the stick is in manual (correctly termed 'tiptronic' mode), then the ECU doesn't use any 'learning' to affect the shifts. I think you may have confused the 'learning' which only happens with either of the automatic modes. :wink:
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I mainly drive on motorways to get to work and back, and do a bit of town driving - where auto would come in useful I guess. On most mornings I get stuck in some traffic in certain spots - which is why I think the auto would be cool. And then when I get into open areas etc I could shift it into manual and plant my right foot down!
And don't forget that if you have paddles, you can temporarily over-ride either of the two automatic modes without having to physically push the floor lever accross the gate. :cool: :afro:
Does it take long to get used to the manual pedals etc with DSG, considering Ive only ever driven a full auto, or a full manual before?
How long is a piece of string? :rolleyes:
Seriously, some peeps can take to them instantly like a duck to water, and others may never get on with them at all. It's all down to the individual, and just how willing they are able to 'adapt' to learning new tricks. :smiley:
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wow Teutonic_Tamer!
You have been really helpful, as have many others who have posted in this thread!
I think I'm sold on the DSG idea now - just want to see if I can book a long test drive now.... ;)
Thanks again for allyour help guys. Its much appreciated.
Glad I found this place before I take the plunge with a GTI - it'll be quite a step up from my Fiesta Zetec S!! :grin:
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Some people have had problems with the electroins unit but really these seem to get picked up early in its life - a few of us now have over 50k miles on DSG boxes and are remapped.
Edit: You do have to have the DSG oil changed every 40k miles which can be a couple of hundred quid
Or earlier, if you have heavily modified the engine power, or do lots of launch controls, or go to lots of drag strips. Our friendly moderator will painfully vouch for that! :wink:
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For the last 30 years I have never wanted a Golf. Ugly bugs. Even when the GTI came out my Alfasud was better.
But I did want the new gearbox.
I wont buy a car now unless it offers a significant technical improvement (so no Mk6 for me) and the DSG sounded like a fantastic leap forward in the history of motoring.
My new GTI came in April last year. The DSG is so good I never bother driving my manual BMW, it stays in the garage.
The GTI attached to the gearbox is quite good too.
I agree. And if anyones budget cant quite stretch to a GTI, the DSG really is superb with the diesels too. The diesels actually seem to get more of a benefit from the DSG due to the much shorter power-band of a diesel.
The DSG really is the EIGHTH WONDER OF THE WORLD !!!!
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wow Teutonic_Tamer!
You have been really helpful, as have many others who have posted in this thread!
I think I'm sold on the DSG idea now - just want to see if I can book a long test drive now.... ;)
Thanks again for allyour help guys. Its much appreciated.
No worries. Glad you have found it all helpful.
One other clever point about the DSG which hasn't yet been mentioned - is the fact that it has an 'intellegent' kickdown feature. I'll let someone else explain that, as I have got to cook my dinner!
Glad I found this place before I take the plunge with a GTI - it'll be quite a step up from my Fiesta Zetec S!! :grin:
Just make sure you carry a change of underwear. You may find some temporary involuntary relaxing of the anal sphincter whilst you get accustomed to the power and useability of the GTI with DSG !!! :wink: :evil:
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rofl!!
My mate has a GTI, so I know what to expect interms of power - however, his is a manual, and Im after a DSG ED30, so hopefully I'll feel more then he does in his ;)
I think he's trying to talk me out of it though ;) lol
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ED30 DSG , great combo, dont dwell, just do it, Great Car :smiley:
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ED30 DSG , great combo, dont dwell, just do it, Great Car :smiley:
Yup Im pretty sure thats what I wanna go for. Now its just finding one with a few options in silver or white! Most of the ones Im finding are in black!
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Had a loan GT TDI DSG and you say - with the shorter rev range it makes driving it much more pleasant, it just works for all flavours really well... well you can see why all the other manufacturers are copying it now!
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So, everyone knows about the DSGs handy 'intelligent kickdown' feature then? :undecided:
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So, everyone knows about the DSGs handy 'intelligent kickdown' feature then? :undecided:
What do you mean? or is that the answer No then...
Hardly use kickdown myself, not too keen as it can skip a couple of gears which is not what I wanted. I find it better to contorl you right foot and you learn just how to press it to get it to drop a gear.
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So whats this 'kickdown' feature??
Im guessing its different to Launch Control?
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OK, "kickdown" is a standard function of all automatic gearboxes (and pseudo-automatic, like CVT or DSG).
Underneath the throttle pedal, is a little 'button switch' - and when the throttle pedal is pressed HARD to the floor, it works this "kickdown" function. Some peeps never find kickdown - because they just never press the pedal hard enough! :rolleyes:
Anyhows - let us say you are driving an auto - any auto, including a DSG. You are in full auto mode, trundling along at 35mph in a queue of traffic, stook behind a feckin caravan - you see a gap, and it is clear to overtake. The box will be in top gear - but - under normal circumstances, top gear and 35mph usually equals crap acceleration. But if you mash your foot to the floor - you can actually feel a little 'click' then this will activate the kickdown - at 35mph, kickdown will select the lowest possible gear instantly for maximum acceleration - probably go from 6th gear to 3rd. Now, providing the road is still clear - then not a prob - you will fly past the caravan, giving it the 'bird' as you pass, the transmission will change up through the gears as you reach the red line. Then when you are safely past, you ease back off the throttle to a more appropriate speed, and as you disengage the kickdown, the box will then relatively leisurley change up to 5th, then back into 6th.
Now, consider the exact same scenario - and with a normal auto. A moment after you floored the throttle and the box changed down - sommat tells you not to over take. The box is in third, the engine is reving its nuts off, you have taken your foot right off the gas, the fcukin box is still in 3rd - you are getting nagged at by SWMBO for thrashing the engine - then what seems like an eternity later, the box snicks into 4th and the revs drop a bit - another 45 minutes, it sneaks into 5th, and the engine quietnes down a little more - and after three light years - the box finally finds 6th again, and peace under the bonnet is restored. (OK, the timings are very slightly exagerated - but that is basically how it feels).
Do the same in a DSG - and it will IMMEDIATELY revert back to 6th (or whatever gear you were in before kickdown). Cool - no histrionics from mother in law in the back seat, no strange glares from other roadusers . . . :cool:
OK, for all those that don't like using kickdown, and prefer to 'paddle down' - well the kickdown does offer some significant advantages over the paddle down technique. The kickdown is instantaneous - and it can skip one, two or three intermediate gears - in extreme examples, going straight from 6th to 2nd. With the 'paddle down' - it ONLY works in a sequential manner - just like a motorbike gearbox. OK, if you only want to drop one cog, then it is even stevens between paddle down and kickdown - but if you want to drop three cogs, with paddle down, the box has to go from 6th to 5th . . . . then 5th to 4th . . . . then 4th to 3rd . . . and so on.
So all you 'non-believers' of DSG kickdown - go give it a try (including the "aborted overtake"). You'll be nicely surprised. :wink: :smiley:
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Now you have explained, yes I was aware - still dont use it that much as rarely need to change down more than one gear but great explanation all the same for those that dont know.
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Thanks TT, thats a perfect explanation, and another reason to get a DSG box now!!!
The car just keeps sounding better and better!
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:laugh:
I've heard of this but never had it explained as well.... Thanks TT, tomorrow I lose my kick down virginity :evil: (there I go again .... Sorry for my recent bout of lairiness :rolleyes:)