Author Topic: engine transplant  (Read 4518 times)

Offline danny_p

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Re: engine transplant
« Reply #10 on: 16 October 2008, 19:00 »
all the VW's have gone bar 1.

Offline Diamond Hell

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Re: engine transplant
« Reply #11 on: 16 October 2008, 19:44 »
Golf Syncros fitted with Rallye running gear - oh how we laughed.  Go on, tell us how the Porsche engine fits 'straight in' the back of a Beetle.

OK, there is no easy option for a *good* engine transplant in a Syncro  - it was VW's 'budget' 4WD.  They used a lot of 'budget' components on it, including the rod change gearbox, in which the diff is actually made of cheese.  On a 2WD Golf the wheels spin, so you get away with a rod-change for 150+BHP.  The Syncro doesn't have the option of wheelspin - it'll just break stuff instead.

This means, as already outlined that you're in trouble with anything over 120bhp (which you could get out of a GU with a GTI head on it and a Weber carb).  So you need a cable-change 'box from a Rallye or a Passat Syncro (both LHD only).  There's £250-350 already.  If you fit that you'll need the Rallye only O/S driveshaft and a GTI N/S shaft.  The Rallye shaft is another £150 at least.

Next up, you'll have noticed that the bigger power 4WD stuff of this vintage is LHD only - there's a reason for this.  The RHD downpipe from the Syncro looks like a small snake that's been wound around the car.  Where the exhaust could go in LHD there's a steering column.  Because no one very few people upgrade RHD Syncros there are no 'performance' upgrades for them.  You'll need to either cut and shut a Rallye downpipe and the firewall (as I did) or fabricate a tubular manifold and downpipe, as we did on Danny's car.  You'll need a welder and lots of GTI downpipes to weld together, oh and a plate flange for the manifold.

You lost interest yet?
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Offline rubjonny

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Re: engine transplant
« Reply #12 on: 17 October 2008, 13:54 »
well thats the final word on that then!  wonder who started that myth off...

how close is a passat setup, I guess its a bit too long and a bit wide at the rear?  are the chassis mounting points on the rear passat syncro frame in the same place as a golf one, or spaced apart further?  I ask because was reading thru a mk2 syncro build on the vortex and he used all passat gear, but it wasnt a syncro to start with so I'm not sure how much custom work was involved underneath...

I guess the G60 syncros from DE land used all Rallye running gear right? It's pretty much the same car except for a few extras?
« Last Edit: 17 October 2008, 13:56 by rubjonny »
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Offline Diamond Hell

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Re: engine transplant
« Reply #13 on: 17 October 2008, 14:51 »
I've not dissected a Passat set up so I'm not 100% on the detail differences.  I know it uses different (longer) driveshafts. I also can't remember whether the 2WD 35i Passat used a torsion rear beam, but if it did then I suspect the underbody story there would be much like the Golf one - big differences. 

The big difference Golf Syncro vs the higher Golfs and the Passat is the cable-change gearbox - a much stronger unit.  There are myriad differences though.  The rear diff unit on the Syncro set-ups from that era only has detail differences between the models.  It's all very similar in that area.  Except the VR6 models, which use a different (Matched) final-drive ratios, as well as a different bellhousing for the 6 cylinder motor.

On a 2WD UK spec Golf you're into replacing the tunnel with the high-tunnel out of the Syncro, and the boot floor, too.  Not hard..... if you're good at cutting and welding.  It'd be a b!tch if things weren't straight though!

The high tunnel is a massive benefit to the shell as it stiffens the whole structure massively - you can jack up one corner and the shells just don't sag at all.  Obviously this has benefits for the handling of the car, as well as the independent set up in the back, which stops the Syncro cars cocking a wheel in corners. 

The only Golfs that got the high-tunnel shell in the UK were the Golf Syncro.  In Germany it was used on the 2WD G60 GTI as well as the G60 Syncro and the Limited, of course.

The Rallye shell is much heavier than the high-tunnel shell.  It was designed to support VW's drive into rallying, so has masses of reinforcement, which really isn't necessary in a road car.  Oh and it's got two less doors and most of the panels are unique to it.  So aside from that, yeah it's pretty much the same shell.....Both models were fitted with bonded screens though.

The high-tunnel shell is the best compromise in my eyes; it gets you a car that looks like yer regular Golf, rather than a Rallye, which sticks out like a sore thumb full of obsolete parts.
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Offline rubjonny

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Re: engine transplant
« Reply #14 on: 17 October 2008, 15:27 »
Cool all good info!
I know the passat front subframe is wider, meaning it cannot be used on a MK2.  Was wondering if the mounting points at the back were also spaced further apart, which would mean cannot easily be used as a drop in on the 'normal' mk2 syncro shells.  Any idea if the corrado tunnel is similar enough to the MK2 G60/syncro tunnel to be used, since it shares alot with the MK2 shell but is it similar enough... If so would be a good source of the higher tunnel.

Theres a yellow twin engine 20vt corrado build up in the clubgti forums which is a good source of pics for the shell, apparently theres a lot of strengthening done on there nicked from the G60 plus I assume bits from the rallye as well, and things that were nicked off the Passat.  One that springs to mind is a cutout at the bottom of the rear inner arch which apparently was on the passat for syncro rear beam clearance or something!

On yours did you put in the higher boot floor, or did you make up a custom tank?
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Offline TANK

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Re: engine transplant
« Reply #15 on: 17 October 2008, 18:20 »
so whats my best option? 2.0 8v bottom end if i do that what will i have to do to get it in?

the little i spend the better want the outside looking mint

Offline danny_p

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Re: engine transplant
« Reply #16 on: 17 October 2008, 18:48 »
the passat has longer driveshafts, but the rear diss is the same,  the trailing arms are also apparently the same with the width differancebeen in the sub frame, whitch makes sense all, syncros includeing rallye use 90mm cv joints on the rear as well.

also there is a big differance between "some / all "  of the rallye gearboxes compared to syncro ones  the rallye gearbox (ASU)  has a cast iron transfer case whitch is soposed to be stonger  but it also has a sepearate oil to the gearbox  holding only 0.5 ltr iirc so if an oil leack develops  a small leack over time can destroy the transferbox, wheas the G60 gearboxes have ali transfercases and common oil supply so the transfer case can't run dry so easly   
all the VW's have gone bar 1.

Offline Organisys

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Re: engine transplant
« Reply #17 on: 17 October 2008, 18:52 »
so whats my best option? 2.0 8v bottom end if i do that what will i have to do to get it in?

the little i spend the better want the outside looking mint

Sell up and buy a scooby for 2k Reasonable power and a half decent 4wd system!  :lipsrsealed:
 :smiley:
« Last Edit: 17 October 2008, 18:54 by Organisys »

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Offline Jay

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Re: engine transplant
« Reply #18 on: 17 October 2008, 19:08 »
Sell up and buy a scooby for 2k Reasonable power and a half decent 4wd system!  :lipsrsealed:
 :smiley:

Traitor!


so whats my best option? 2.0 8v bottom end if i do that what will i have to do to get it in?

the little i spend the better want the outside looking mint
2.0 8v bottom end it is, hopefully someone will come along with a bit more info on how to change the bottom end.
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Offline danny_p

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Re: engine transplant
« Reply #19 on: 17 October 2008, 19:17 »
true scoobys can be had for bugger all now but they have there problems and plenty of them
all the VW's have gone bar 1.