What now for the R32.....

[R32UK]

You can not go a round a corner faster just because you have 4wd...

I see what your saying.. but 4WD can ensure that power is sent to where its required/not wasted to make the car go round the corner faster. So you are infact WRONG.. try taking 2 cars with even power and weight round the same corner. I would put my money on the 4WD thanks!

It is thinking that way that have made many a subaru impreza driver crash into a hedge.  You can not change the grip of a tyre just because it is on a 4wd car.  If it is wet, the 4wd car would be able to power out of a corner earlier than a 2wd car.  It would not be able to go into or around the corner faster.

I never said it would be quicker into a corner. But it will be quicker around it.. as like you said, you can put the power down earlier.

How can it go round a corner faster?  Are the tyres more sticky on a 4wd car?  I wasn't trying to be smug or pretend to know all about 4wd or the Haldex unit. Just because the engine is driving all wheels it doesn't make the tyres GRIP the road anymore than on a 2wd car.  Like you and I said, a 4wd car can power out of a corner faster that is down to traction not GRIP.  That in its self doesn't make it a faster or better handling car.  Over to you dude.

Without going over old ground I think we both agree without going into detail that there are a few characteristics to handling, so to say a certain car is better handling than another could be broken down into a number of issues.

As for the issue of the 4wd car being able to go round a corner quicker.. try thinking of it like this:

The cars are not going to go around the corner as dead weight. If you apply power to the fronts they will at the limit start to understeer. When this same limit is approached in the 4wd car, its ability to introduce power through the rear will allow for better balance of power delivery, leaving the fronts to do what they do best.. which is steer. So what you could say is that by utilizing the traction available to the rear of the car you are infact able to go round the corner faster. The 2wd car is always going to be limited to only travelling as fast the fronts can get their power down onto the road, where as the 4WD car can counter this loss of grip (understeer) by the front wheels by providing drive through the rear wheels. Bringing the car back into line, and allowing the driver to drive the car round the corner... its the 4wd cars ability to do this that makes it faster round the corner.

Hope that makes sense, as you can see Im not the most technical person to talk about this but this is my understanding. I do appreciate that you are trying to highlight the point about grip and traction. Feel free to correct me.

[carl1]

^^^^^Just to add to this im no expert myself but when was it last a 2wd drive  won a WRC championship title or what ever it was called in its day.Proberly a mk 2 escort or somthing like that and that was rwd.It must say something about all top rally cars having 4wd

[evad]

For those interested, heres some logging that an engineer in the states did:

from vwvortex

What I can tell you is that even with the factory controller, the Haldex diff is VERY active. Even under light acceleration there is varying amounts of clutch lockup.

Idle/Revving in Neutral -
2 bar seemed to be the constant pressure in the system

Steady Cruise -
Even with constant speed cruising, the clutchpack is being engaged to a point. Let off the throttle and the line pressure drops down to 3-4 bar. Get back on the gas and there's a momentary spike to about 9 bar in line pressure and then it steadied at about 6-7 bar with a constant throttle application.

Full Throttle, 3rd Gear -
Even though wheelspin is impossible in the dry in 3rd gear, as soon as I mashed the pedal the pressure on the clutchpack increased from what it was at a steady cruise (6-7 bar) to about 20 bar and then slowly dropped to a low of 10-12 bar. This is still considerably more pressure (about double) on the clutchpack then when travelling at a steady cruise.

Launch Control -
This was interesting. Left foot on brake, right foot full throttle and there's no more pressure than when revving in neutral (i.e. 2 bar). Literally the moment that I side-stepped the brake pedal, line pressure jumped to 40 bar (which is noted as the maximum operating pressure according to VAG-COM) and stayed there all the way through 1st gear. I'm talking the line on the graph went completely vertical which means that literally in the blink of an eye, the clutchpack was fully locked transferring 50% of available torque to the rear axle. Once 2nd gear was engaged line pressure fell to about 20 bar, which is consistent with what I saw during the 3rd gear pull.

General Observations -
Like I said before, the Haldex clutchpack is very active during driving and definitely isn't only reacting to wheelspin. Increase pressure on the gas pedal and the Haldex controller increases pressure on the clutchpacks accordingly. I also noted that while taking turns at a good clip that line pressure increases compared to steady state cruise. The more throttle you give it, the higher the pressure on the clutchpacks.

Conclusion -
Clutch lockup in the Haldex diff is not dependent on wheelspin. The Haldex diff is very active in transferring torque to the rear axle under various driving conditions. While moving, there is always torque being transmitted to the rear axle and the drivetrain never runs in only FWD mode.

I will try to find the original thread on Vortex.

Just to add, I have owned both a GTI and and R32, I live in the West of Ireland where the roads are rubbish and the weather is worse, straight up, I did not enjoy driving the GTI in poor weather and on the roads over here and hence changed it after only 6 months for an R32 which was a revelation, definitely a heavier car and not hugely fast, but on a wet day driving through Connemara I'd have the R32 9 times out of 10, it was a wonderful thing, such a pity I killed it

[topher]

I remember reading that thread, be warned though TT dismisses anything written by Americans
He's just stuck in his torsen-minded good old days from the era of crank handle starters..

hmm lets see if i can find that email from the american racing instructor who prefers haldex controlled awd to rusty torsen diffs

[Top Cat]

Guys its time to leave these shores this thread is gonna blow

Evacuate   Evacuate Evacuate   Evacuate Evacuate   [Evacuate Evacuate   Evacuate Evacuate   Evacuate


                                       

[SteveP]

^^^ ROLF and very very true 

[R32UK]

Where is the T_T???

probably gone out to test drive another R32 i owuld imagine

[illyun]

Where is the T_T???

probably gone out to test drive another R32 i owuld imagine

Probably doing a s81t load of research and simmering - as Top Cat says, he'ill be ready to explode when he joins this thread... in a nice constructive way of course 

[ukdub]

You can not go a round a corner faster just because you have 4wd...

I see what your saying.. but 4WD can ensure that power is sent to where its required/not wasted to make the car go round the corner faster. So you are infact WRONG.. try taking 2 cars with even power and weight round the same corner. I would put my money on the 4WD thanks!

It is thinking that way that have made many a subaru impreza driver crash into a hedge.  You can not change the grip of a tyre just because it is on a 4wd car.  If it is wet, the 4wd car would be able to power out of a corner earlier than a 2wd car.  It would not be able to go into or around the corner faster.

I never said it would be quicker into a corner. But it will be quicker around it.. as like you said, you can put the power down earlier.

How can it go round a corner faster?  Are the tyres more sticky on a 4wd car?  I wasn't trying to be smug or pretend to know all about 4wd or the Haldex unit. Just because the engine is driving all wheels it doesn't make the tyres GRIP the road anymore than on a 2wd car.  Like you and I said, a 4wd car can power out of a corner faster that is down to traction not GRIP.  That in its self doesn't make it a faster or better handling car.  Over to you dude.

Without going over old ground I think we both agree without going into detail that there are a few characteristics to handling, so to say a certain car is better handling than another could be broken down into a number of issues.

As for the issue of the 4wd car being able to go round a corner quicker.. try thinking of it like this:

The cars are not going to go around the corner as dead weight. If you apply power to the fronts they will at the limit start to understeer. When this same limit is approached in the 4wd car, its ability to introduce power through the rear will allow for better balance of power delivery, leaving the fronts to do what they do best.. which is steer. So what you could say is that by utilizing the traction available to the rear of the car you are infact able to go round the corner faster. The 2wd car is always going to be limited to only travelling as fast the fronts can get their power down onto the road, where as the 4WD car can counter this loss of grip (understeer) by the front wheels by providing drive through the rear wheels. Bringing the car back into line, and allowing the driver to drive the car round the corner... its the 4wd cars ability to do this that makes it faster round the corner.

Hope that makes sense, as you can see Im not the most technical person to talk about this but this is my understanding. I do appreciate that you are trying to highlight the point about grip and traction. Feel free to correct me.

Good write up.
I have to agree on most points.  The thing is even though you are getting traction from all 4 wheels (which is a good thing) you can't change the phyiscal grip of the tyres.  Therefore you will get a nice 4 wheeled drift not traction.  I will get my coat instead of digging this hole.  Just hate admitting someone might just be right. Maybe!!!!!!!!!

[synnea]

Back on track.

How would your wife react?

I have to admit to my drug addition. I had to admit it to my wife today. I phoned my wife to tell her. I didnt have to go to a doc cus there was nothing he could do for me. I explained to my wife that I have been addicted since 2006. I am still suffering from the come down effects and cant take it any more. I miss my fix.  She asked me what the drug was...

....I told her it was a sound. A sound she says.......

Its called V6..........

R32 back with it's rightful owner. I cant wait