Result! Well almost.....

[Teutonic_Tamer]

TC, you know me too well mate! I nearly dropped my glass of wine!

Good save! 

T_T , I enjoyed your threads and thought you were a man of great knowledge and I respected that   Now I'm not so sure. Recommending a poxhall on here, are you nuts?   I'd rather cut my knob off than drive a Vauxhall, call it badge snobbery or whatever you like, they just give me the creeps. I'm entitled to my opinion, and its that they are cr@p, I've test driven them so I can honestly say that. The wife wouldn't even test drive them, she would never live it down if she was seen in one!

My nomex suit is coping well! 

Egbert, RS4 is too wide, too thirsty and too expensive to run and live with mate.

Agreed on the "wide" bit, but they are actually more economical than the V8 S4, when driven on a par.  My RS4 is actually a fair bit more economical than a Mk5 R32 too! 

T88OMM and SteveP, her last car was a B7 S4, so the powers not an issue trust me! She used to regularly blast past me on the way to work in the mornings!

Yebut - power is nothing without control, as the old saying goes.  Good job yr SWMBO ditched the hairdressers SLK.  But in all seriousnous, if she really utilised the abilities of her S4, partcularly the four wheel drive aspects, then a move to Haldex 4wd will disapoint.

[topher]

My RS4 is actually a fair bit more economical than a Mk5 R32 too! 

Was your R32 DSG? The general feeling over on the R32OC is that the manuals seem to average 5 - 6 mpg more than the lazy shifters.

[NewGolf]

T88OMM and SteveP, her last car was a B7 S4, so the powers not an issue trust me! She used to regularly blast past me on the way to work in the mornings!

Yebut - power is nothing without control, as the old saying goes.  Good job yr SWMBO ditched the hairdressers SLK.  But in all seriousnous, if she really utilised the abilities of her S4, partcularly the four wheel drive aspects, then a move to Haldex 4wd will disapoint.

Its getting off the line in the wet she struggles with, as before in the S4 it was just foot down on the loud pedal, wet or dry, and it would launch like a scalded cat. You cant do that in the GTI, nor in the SLK as she recently found out! Even thought its (the latest) Haldex, in the S3, it should stop "off the line" wheelspin shouldn't it?

Another question for you, if you dont mind? How come the ED30 can be remapped from 230 to 306 BHP (ish..) but the S3 can only go from 260 to 300 BHP, according to SC and Revo?  I imagined it could produce around 320 -340 if the same gains as the Ed30 were achievable?

[Saint Steve]

the S3 is already at a higher state of tune, whereas the ed30 can be modded more as its at a lower state!. S3 has the same engine but is coupled to the haldex, hense why there seems to be less power after mapping with its transmission it has to turn.

Thats my theory  (whether thats correct is up for debate Newgolf)

[Teutonic_Tamer]

My RS4 is actually a fair bit more economical than a Mk5 R32 too! 

Was your R32 DSG? The general feeling over on the R32OC is that the manuals seem to average 5 - 6 mpg more than the lazy shifters.

The 32 wasn't mine, but yes, it was DSG.  But no matter weather I left it in "lazy mode", or in Tip mode, I still thought it was a very thirsty thing, especially compared to my seriously heavyweight RS4! 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

T88OMM and SteveP, her last car was a B7 S4, so the powers not an issue trust me! She used to regularly blast past me on the way to work in the mornings!

Yebut - power is nothing without control, as the old saying goes.  Good job yr SWMBO ditched the hairdressers SLK.  But in all seriousnous, if she really utilised the abilities of her S4, partcularly the four wheel drive aspects, then a move to Haldex 4wd will disapoint.

Its getting off the line in the wet she struggles with, as before in the S4 it was just foot down on the loud pedal, wet or dry, and it would launch like a scalded cat. You cant do that in the GTI, nor in the SLK as she recently found out! Even thought its (the latest) Haldex, in the S3, it should stop "off the line" wheelspin shouldn't it?

Haldex will stop "off the line" wheelspin, and does a very good job, especially in a straight line.  However, the Haldex 4wd is not as "refined" as the truely "stepless" Torsen system.

And hard acceleration whilst cornering with a Haldex is very, very different to a Torsen.  Think "slip-grip-slip-grip-slip-grip" - and you can actually feel that through the seat of your pants, and it also makes the handling twitchy on the limit.  If you can get used to the weak points of Haldex, then it is an OK system.  But the big issue for me, is once you have driven a Torsen on the limit, with Haldex, you are always wanting more.

Another question for you, if you dont mind? How come the ED30 can be remapped from 230 to 306 BHP (ish..) but the S3 can only go from 260 to 300 BHP, according to SC and Revo?  I imagined it could produce around 320 -340 if the same gains as the Ed30 were achievable?

DSG !!!    It is torque limited to protect the clutches.  A manual S3, and you can safely get it up to 450PS no probs. 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

the S3 is already at a higher state of tune, whereas the ed30 can be modded more as its at a lower state!.

Not really.  The S3 engine can cope with considerably higher figures than the Ed30/Cupra lump.

S3 has the same engine

Nope.  The S3 does NOT share its engine with any other VAG car, including the Ed30 and the Cupra.  The S3 has an exclusive cylinder block/crankcase, and made from a stronger more durable alloy, and also has a strengthend crank bed plate.  These are NOT shared with the Ed30 or Cupra! 

but is coupled to the haldex, hense why there seems to be less power after mapping with its transmission it has to turn.

And that is the crucial problem of wheel or hub rolling roads.  They can never correctly calculate the real flywheel power, and this is particularly difficult for the "part time" four wheel drive systems such as Haldex.

[sixpot]

. . .

  Vauxhall/Opels are on a par with other German cars with regard to structural strength (unlike Fords!), and usually get 5 stars in EuroNCAP crash tests. 

Interesting to see you don't rate the body integrity of Henry's finest?
From someone that works in body Construction in a Ford derived plant that uses Ford designed Underbodies (and a multitude of other BIW parts) as bases for its product, I can tell you that this comment confuses me somewhat!
Are you talking about products of old?

Nope.  Even the latest Fords are no match for Vauxhall/Opel, Renault, VW, and the likes.  Ford never quite cut in EuroNCAP tests.  OK, they may sometimes hit 5 stars, but the devil is in the detail.

And how may Fords use continuous seam or butt laser welding - none.  They still use 1960s spot welding technology.

What about full three-section sills - the most crucial part of the structure.  For still don't use a full three section, yet Vauxhall, VW and Audi use four section, and some parts are 5-section sills.

Bottom line though is to ask any "established" Police accident investigator - and Fords will always be at the bottom of their own transport requirements. 

Even Volvos are not the "tanks" they once were, before Ford got their grubby mitts on ownership of that well-known "tough" brand.

So the 1300 odd spot welds used on the mk 5 Golf are not counted or invisible then?
Spot (resistance) welding has been around a lot longer than the 60's and most manufacturers still use them, including the ones mentioned in your above post.
I could post up various links to videos of spot welders in current action at various car plants across the world.
Re: Laser welding, this is used to some degree on long runs that are easily accessible for the robot heads for instance the roof seams, and does away with the need to seal up the joints with Terostat or the like afterwards due to the 100% integrity.
Laser welding is also used to save wastage on sheet metal , for example the door skin inners in the plant where I work are made in 2 pieces and joined with laser welding, wheras otherwise there would be a lot of wasted raw material if they were pressed out in one piece. Of course Aluminium shells still have to be laser welded (or increasingly bonded) as spot welding doesn't work.
I work closely with a guy at work who is an ABB employee, he is a seasoned traveller to BIW plants around the world, and guess what he is a specialist in? yep ABB resistance welding robots.

The strength of a bodyshell is not totally reliant on the sill section anymore, any modern floorpan will have reinforcing running lengthways along the x axis, (usually the underbody and door opening panel - DOP) and tied up with specific re-inforcing panels to spread the load of any impact (deformation) as you know cars are designed to absorb impact and spread the force of throughout the body, so multi-skinned sill sections, although once necessary, aren't used to such an extent anymore. Manufacturers do things in different ways thats all!

[NewGolf]

. . .

  Vauxhall/Opels are on a par with other German cars with regard to structural strength (unlike Fords!), and usually get 5 stars in EuroNCAP crash tests. 

Interesting to see you don't rate the body integrity of Henry's finest?
From someone that works in body Construction in a Ford derived plant that uses Ford designed Underbodies (and a multitude of other BIW parts) as bases for its product, I can tell you that this comment confuses me somewhat!
Are you talking about products of old?

Nope.  Even the latest Fords are no match for Vauxhall/Opel, Renault, VW, and the likes.  Ford never quite cut in EuroNCAP tests.  OK, they may sometimes hit 5 stars, but the devil is in the detail.

And how may Fords use continuous seam or butt laser welding - none.  They still use 1960s spot welding technology.

What about full three-section sills - the most crucial part of the structure.  For still don't use a full three section, yet Vauxhall, VW and Audi use four section, and some parts are 5-section sills.

Bottom line though is to ask any "established" Police accident investigator - and Fords will always be at the bottom of their own transport requirements. 

Even Volvos are not the "tanks" they once were, before Ford got their grubby mitts on ownership of that well-known "tough" brand.

So the 1300 odd spot welds used on the mk 5 Golf are not counted or invisible then?
Spot (resistance) welding has been around a lot longer than the 60's and most manufacturers still use them, including the ones mentioned in your above post.
I could post up various links to videos of spot welders in current action at various car plants across the world.
Re: Laser welding, this is used to some degree on long runs that are easily accessible for the robot heads for instance the roof seams, and does away with the need to seal up the joints with Terostat or the like afterwards due to the 100% integrity.
Laser welding is also used to save wastage on sheet metal , for example the door skin inners in the plant where I work are made in 2 pieces and joined with laser welding, wheras otherwise there would be a lot of wasted raw material if they were pressed out in one piece. Of course Aluminium shells still have to be laser welded (or increasingly bonded) as spot welding doesn't work.
I work closely with a guy at work who is an ABB employee, he is a seasoned traveller to BIW plants around the world, and guess what he is a specialist in? yep ABB resistance welding robots.

The strength of a bodyshell is not totally reliant on the sill section anymore, any modern floorpan will have reinforcing running lengthways along the x axis, (usually the underbody and door opening panel - DOP) and tied up with specific re-inforcing panels to spread the load of any impact (deformation) as you know cars are designed to absorb impact and spread the force of throughout the body, so multi-skinned sill sections, although once necessary, aren't used to such an extent anymore. Manufacturers do things in different ways thats all!

Thanks for that Sixpot 

Ok T_T you are back in "VAG" mode, phew! Thanks for the advise. So you'd recommend the S3 then, in manual as opposed to DSG? Once its bedded in and I get my grubby paws on it, REMAP here we come !!!

[illyun]

my thoughts