Roll cages

[danny_p]

ok  here goes

you be wanting 2.5"  3mm wall CDS seemless tube.   the hoop itself must be one pieice, go bend this right will take some skill and practice, as the tube will spring back a fair bit when reliesed,  onec the hoop is done you'll be wanting some spreder plates these want to be at least 3mm  plate these get welded to the bottom of the hoop  then  welded or bolted to the floor, next a diagonal bar goes in  from the corner of the hoop behing the drivers head diagonaly down to the other side of the hoop just above the spreader plate. ( as the msa insist you have something to bang your head on ) then you go then two bars go from the top of the hoop ether side digaonaly towards the back of the car idealy as far back as possible but strut tops are a convinient place spreader plates are also required here,   at theos point you may as well shove a tube in between the strut tops. 

to do a proper job a harness bar now needs adding and a frount hoop is realy needed thisj is then attached to the raer hoop ether side, then door bars from rear hoop to base of frount  hoop. the frount hoop should be braced behing the dash then may as well have legs welded on to the frount stuts.   and the hole lots should be tagged to the body shell at evey avalible oppotunity this will now give proper protection and seriously stiffen shell.  but proper bucket seats and harnesses are advised also a crash hat .  aas the shell is now serioysly stiff so won't crumpel much in  crash so more force on you  3 piont belts will do damage to back  the bat hat is because there is now rather a lot of steel tube to beat your head on and that has the potential to hurt you lots.   

[Diamond Hell]

Wot he said.

But bought from OMP, or Custom Cages or fabbed up for you by a professional cage builder like Paul Botch Venners.

It's safety.

It's not for 'trying out' things to see if you can do it.  It's for professionals and proper kits that are designed to protect you.

[bigman_10]

diamond i see where your coming from, but i'm not using it for saftey and wouldn't put saftey a cage in a road car anyway as thats just asking for trouble if you're going to those sort of extremes.

So from the point of view of extra weight and slowing an already slow car down, yeah it is stupid but what is the point in being 18 if you cant be stupid once in a while! A while back i'd of shared the same view as you but i'm a practical learner and love to try new things given the oppertunity. Lets face its not the most expensive of cars in the world  but my firends dad has plenty of experince with metal work as he made his own business employing 12 engineers, he'd be able to show us how to fab it and make it safe (purly for the reason if i did crash it would cause injury or damage, if it bent or came loose! not adding structural integrity) so i've seen this oppertunity and thought why not!

another example is why do people stretch rubber and slam the car so low the wheels wont turn? thats about as practical as a home made cage?

As for the stuff about dropping a valver in, yes it would be far cheaper in the long run to buy a gti but what do you learn buying it already done for you money at the end of the day is what you have to earn in order to enjoy yourself.

theres my view on it anyway but i can also see what you mean and why i shouldn't do it.

thanks for the info. danny_P you seemed reluctant but what you said is what i'm after, this may sound stupid but can you get cold drawn stainless steel, i read on club gti about the aerospace grade stuff aswell but theres not much point for my use. i asked my friend and he has some 60mm diameter 5mm think overordered and its taking up space at the moment?? (nice and chunky )

also where abouts is it best to put the two slpoing rear legs that go into the back? off the shelf stuff seems to vary?

[Diamond Hell]

diamond i see where your coming from, but i'm not using it for saftey and wouldn't put saftey a cage in a road car anyway as thats just asking for trouble if you're going to those sort of extremes.

If you're not using it for safety then don't bother putting a cage in.  If it's not there for safety then it's just something for you to smash your head against in an accident. 

If you want proper specs on how to build a proper functional cage then find a copy of the MSA Blue Book, which describes how to build proper cages that conform to real regulations and will deliver a real safety benefit.

yeah it is stupid but what is the point in being 18 if you cant be stupid once in a while!

That's why you have the problem with your insurance costs.  Try and avoid the stupidity, rather than embracing it.

another example is why do people stretch rubber and slam the car so low the wheels wont turn? thats about as practical as a home made cage?

Two stupid modifications don't make a right modification.  Just because other people make dumb-assed modifications to their car, doesn't mean you have to.

[danny_p]

have no idea on tube specks for stainless steel,  60 x 5mm is going to be heavy,  aas for the diagonals most head for the rear struts, they should go for the reart most practical point, but if you mount them right at the back of the boot and you get rear ended there going to push the hoop forward whitch ain't good so the rear struts make a lot of sense.   

TBH  i personaly dont think what your plannng is the best idea but if your going to do it do it properly, if you do go ahead with it please wrap it around where you and your passinges heads or any other limbs will be, use the proper wrap it's more expensive than pipe insuation but for a reason it's much denser and will actualy provide protection worth haveing it you wack it hard.  also cadges arn't as easy as they look,  ive cadged 2 landrover trials motors before and there were bastards to get right  and thats easy compared to cadgeing a car as there will be some bastartd tight spots to weld in.   as for the planned enigne change  whatever you put in will be classed as a magor modifcation so make it worth it and use an abf when you do it.

[sesterfield]

fact is a bad cage is less safe than no cage, but obviously its up to you.

I think it's FIA article 253 that has pretty clear guidance on what type of tubing to use, maybe I'll check in the morning if I can be arsed!

[Chris-White]

try hving a lil punt on this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/polished-vw-mk2-golf-roll-cage-rallye_W0QQitemZ300259745740QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item300259745740&_trkparms=72%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

may save the hassle of designing and making your own.

[pdd144c]

This is what you want:

http://www.xsportracing.com/news.php?viewarticle&id=12

Biased as I work there but our cages are very good 

[danny_p]

ummm  tasty    how much will you do me one for ? 

[pdd144c]

Between £800 and £2k!

Paul.