Author Topic: understeer comments with new tyres [1500 mile update added]  (Read 7514 times)

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: understeer comments with new tyres
« Reply #10 on: 14 September 2008, 11:51 »
I was surprised how badly the Michelin PS2 fared in the latest Auto Express trye test. All testing was carried out at Michelin's own tre testing facility in France too!
There doesn't seem to be any online versions of the test available for viewing though, just what was printed in the mag.

Can you scan it?  E-mail it to me if you don't wanna post it, as I'd be very interested in reading it, and picking over the finer points!  :wink:  :smiley:  Or when was the relevant issue - is it still on the shelves?

~The only test the PS2 was outright winner was the rolling resistance test, which we all knew anyway as they tend to last the longest.

Low rolling resistance and long tyre life arn't directly related.  One has to do with tread compound, and the other has to do with constructural rigidity of the carcass.  :wink:  :smiley:

Sorry I ain't got a scanner! It was issue 1027 dated 27 Aug-2 Sept, maybe available from back issues? 
The wet handling test was the real fall-down for Michelin, with it coming position 12 out of 15.

I would really question the validity of that!  Anyone will tell you that Michelins (the entire range) in the wet are where they really excel.  On a very wet trackday in my last S4, I consistently - and literally run rings around other cars, all with a variety of other tyre makes.  The real shocker for me was the latest RS4 (which I now have), which had Pirelli P Zero Rossos.  We took turns in following each other, and he (in the RS4 with Pirellis) kept loosing on every single corner in the wet.  His tyres were virtually brand new, with about 6½mm tread, and my Mich PS2s were about half worn at 3-4mm.




Pirelli P Zero Y rated XL was the overall winner of the test.

That does not relate to any real-life experiences.  Every single person I know who had the Pirelli P Zero Rossos on their RS4s had some serious complaints,  :angry: would never recommend them, would never refit them again,  :sick: and would go for either Mich PS2, Conti CSC3, or Goodyear F1 Asymmetrics - and ALL said the Pirelli was considerably worse than what they had been replaced with!

The ONLY time the P Zero gets any kind of good reports from owners - is if they have "over tyred" their car.  :rolleyes:  What I mean, is if they have put BFO 18" or so rims on a Corsa/Saxo/Ibiza - which clearly does not have the weight of say an RS4, and nor do their cars "stress" the tyres either.

On my RS4, I had to bin the OEM Pirellis when they still had 5mm of tread, because they really were fcuking lethal in the wet.  Total aquaplaning (on roads I know like the back of my hand) at 40mph!  ABS activating on all four wheels at even modest braking.  And in the dry, the fronts would always lock and be completely overwhealmed by my ceramic brakes.  Changed them to PS2s, and the car was very dramatically changed, for the better.
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: understeer comments with new tyres
« Reply #11 on: 14 September 2008, 12:49 »

....Noticing your new signature, T_T, you'll doubtless enjoy this : -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=067FMmyrXmQ&feature=related
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Offline john_o

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Re: understeer comments with new tyres
« Reply #12 on: 14 September 2008, 21:52 »
Where was your destination in Scotland John_O?

Funnily enough it was Ayr , so its the same route you are talking about , a real mix with a few really tricky off camber corners.
Awesome road , but really going to hurt if you get it wrong  :shocked:
It was wet on the way back down (and dark) which added to the fun !

Really miss the driving roads round that area after moving to warrington........

John
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Offline gazbutmk5gti

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Re: understeer comments with new tyres
« Reply #13 on: 14 September 2008, 22:00 »
Where was your destination in Scotland John_O?

Funnily enough it was Ayr , so its the same route you are talking about , a real mix with a few really tricky off camber corners.
Awesome road , but really going to hurt if you get it wrong  :shocked:
It was wet on the way back down (and dark) which added to the fun !

Really miss the driving roads round that area after moving to warrington........

John

you got lots of roundabouts in warrington though :laugh:
Revo stg2+ & lots more

Offline john_o

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Re: understeer comments with new tyres
« Reply #14 on: 06 October 2008, 13:28 »
ressurrected (sp?) as I have now done well over 1500 miles on them

The PS2's are night and day above the Exaltos.

Dry conditions

crisper turn in . holds for longer , breakaway on the limit seems more progressive (exaltos ar on/off once the grip is breached)


Wet

sooooo much more grip. Spirited roundabouts have a balanced car (rather than terminal understeer)
(although PS2 on the rear would change that again)
I am able to deploy full throttle in 2nd gear in the wet with little or no ESP/wheelspin.
(and that was 2 nights ago in torrential rain and 14psi on the boost gauge!)
(just to try I wasnt being a prat honest !)

Wear seems noticeable (to be expected) , so they must be softer than exaltos.
Tyre noise is unchanged AFAIK

Long story short , the tyres your ED30 (or GTI) came with determine a hell of a lot about the dynamics of your car!

Fabuluous tyres , highly recommended.
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: understeer comments with new tyres [1500 mile update added]
« Reply #15 on: 06 October 2008, 14:10 »
....

At the risk of sounding smug :smug: :smug:, one albeit much more expensive but extremely effective way of reducing understeer and increasing traction/grip is to install a Quaiffe ATB diff. It truly does transform a Mk5 GTI's handling at all speeds in both wet and dry conditions.

:afro:
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Offline john_o

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Re: understeer comments with new tyres [1500 mile update added]
« Reply #16 on: 06 October 2008, 14:18 »
....
At the risk of sounding smug :smug: :smug:


you got an LSD Robin , never realised  :lipsrsealed:  :grin:
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: understeer comments with new tyres [1500 mile update added]
« Reply #17 on: 06 October 2008, 15:00 »
....
At the risk of sounding smug :smug: :smug:


you got an LSD Robin , never realised  :lipsrsealed:  :grin:

....Oh! Let me tell you more............................................................................. :grin:
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: understeer comments with new tyres
« Reply #18 on: 06 October 2008, 15:28 »
ressurrected (sp?) as I have now done well over 1500 miles on them

The PS2's are night and day above the Exaltos.

Dry conditions

crisper turn in . holds for longer , breakaway on the limit seems more progressive (exaltos ar on/off once the grip is breached)


Wet

sooooo much more grip. Spirited roundabouts have a balanced car (rather than terminal understeer)
(although PS2 on the rear would change that again)
I am able to deploy full throttle in 2nd gear in the wet with little or no ESP/wheelspin.
(and that was 2 nights ago in torrential rain and 14psi on the boost gauge!)
(just to try I wasnt being a prat honest !)

Wear seems noticeable (to be expected) , so they must be softer than exaltos.
Tyre noise is unchanged AFAIK

Long story short , the tyres your ED30 (or GTI) came with determine a hell of a lot about the dynamics of your car!

Fabuluous tyres , highly recommended.


So I take it you like the Mich PS2s then?  :evil:

Do I gather you only got a pair though?  If so, get the newer PS2s on the rear, and move the older Exaltos to the front.
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: understeer comments with new tyres [1500 mile update added]
« Reply #19 on: 06 October 2008, 15:33 »
....

At the risk of sounding smug :smug: :smug:, one albeit much more expensive but extremely effective way of reducing understeer and increasing traction/grip is to install a Quaiffe ATB diff. It truly does transform a Mk5 GTI's handling at all speeds in both wet and dry conditions.

:afro:

Sorry, but completely disagree.  Grip and traction is only determined, in the final instances, by the abilities of the tyre.  You can have the best possible diff in the world, but if you have shyte tyres, you will still be heading for the ditch.  And do tell us how a diff will help with braking grip, aquaplaning resistance, ride comfort, tyre noise - not to mention everything associated with the undriven rear tyres?  :rolleyes:

Yes, the Quaife ATB diff does work, but you are "bigging it up" way beyond its actual capabilities.
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
-----
'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo