Author Topic: A little help?  (Read 3815 times)

Offline Scott_150

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A little help?
« on: 07 January 2007, 23:26 »
Hi,

  Was just wondering if the standard speaker in the mk4 golf SE could hack having their own amp? i dont know what wattage they are or anything- i was tihnking of getting a sub or two amping them then having seperate amps to my speakers..they are the original speakers.  Would this work?

If not could you tell me what speakers i should get to replace them?


any advise would be appreciated im a newbie to the ice world atm! lol


Thank!
« Last Edit: 08 January 2007, 00:05 by Scott_150 »

Offline Lewy

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Re: A little help?
« Reply #1 on: 07 January 2007, 23:49 »
Sorry mate, what Mk Golf is it?

Offline Scott_150

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Re: A little help?
« Reply #2 on: 08 January 2007, 00:03 »
Sorry thought i had put that lol its a mk4 1.6 16v SE its got 8 speakers as standard.

Cheers

Offline Heyho

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Re: A little help?
« Reply #3 on: 08 January 2007, 18:28 »
Standard speakers would probably benefit sound quality-wise from being amped seperately, but doing this depends upon how they are wired up.

You say it has 8 speakers?  I'm not familiar with the Mk4, but most headunits have 4 channels, so you need to work out which channels power which speakers before you decide what to do.  The front L+R channels most likely power your front mids and tweeters - these are the ones that would be worth amping.  Lots of people only run front speakers and a sub, with very impressive results.

Because standard speakers are more sensitive (more sound from less input power), just be careful when setting the gains on the amp.  If you want to replace your speakers, you'll need a budget to work to, to stop things getting out of control!

Offline Scott_150

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Re: A little help?
« Reply #4 on: 08 January 2007, 21:18 »
yeah there are 8, if i remember right- two in front doors and two in front door pillars, then two in rear doors and two near door handles.  I just dont want to blow them! lol i may just take it into local ice shop and get them to do it just thought it would be better doing it myself! - i just dont want to blow them all lol

Offline S11EPS

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Re: A little help?
« Reply #5 on: 10 January 2007, 09:12 »
OK, Digipants has it bang on - there are four channels output from the factory headunit, which in turn are split high/low for a pair of mid's and tweets in each corner of the car. IIRC on the mk4 the crossover (which splits the signal hi/low) is actually part of the mid range woofer - therefore you have two (full-range) signal wires from the headunit to the x/over (located on the speaker basket), and then two go to the mid range woofer itself, another two shoot off in the direction of the tweeter.

As such, a standard four channel amplifier (or two, if you wish to just amplify the fronts) is easy to set up, however I'm unsure of the system expansion possibilities of your specific headunit; I know for a fact you can buy adapters that will give you at least one low-level (un-amplified) output, but I'm unsure if  there is an adapter that will give you 3 sets (front, rear, sub). As such, if you want to retain the ability to fade your sound (front to rear) from the head unit, you're going to have to look for an amplifier with high level (speaker) input terminals.

However, I respectfully have some recommendations before you take this route;

Before looking at amplifying your full range speakers, look at adding a subwoofer. Your standard factory fit speakers are never going to produce earth-shattering low's, even when amplified. Low range notes are produced, in essence, by moving a lot of air, hence a large cone area or a long cone exertion within its chassis are required - your standard speakers are not capable of either.

Now, when you add a sub to take care of the low stuff you can then filter out these low-end frequencies (using capacitors) from your full range speakers. This will allow you to drive your factory speakers harder before they start to croak; Make them twice as effecient and you can work them twice as hard.

A sub amp can easily be added to your existing headunit and would be installable (even for a novice) in a couple of hours.

Allow the balance of the day for filtering out your existing speakers (you do need to get to them afterall, which takes some time - allow an hour per corner of the car).

Next I would look at changing your head unit - future system expansion will be made considerably easier with high quality (and hi-voltage) pre-outs. Furthermore, the quality of signal output is going to be much higher, another factor that decides the ceiling of non-distorted sound; there's no point having a speaker set up capable of producing clear and devestating sound if the signal they're being fed is total garbage.

This also gives the ability to play MP3 cd's or connect an ipod etc etc.

If you were to do this at the same time as adding the sub, you would not have to fit capacitors to the full range speakers - instead, select a headunit that has on-board filters, which do exactly the same job.

This is the setup (high powered head unit, sub and amp, filtered factory speakers) I had in my PD150 and it absolutely rocked, as anyone who heard it will attest.

If, after all that, you still want more volume and clarity, then replacement full range speakers (and then amplifying them) is the route to take. However, as someone that has already been there and done it, I would suggest you improve your signal (ie, swap the headunit and filter the signal to something suited to the speakers) and add a sub to give your sound some depth before you look at messing with the rest of it. I personally believe that amping your standard speakers and doing nothing else will potentially be wasted money - you're going to end up with a screechy and distorted mess of a sound, which is no louder prior to the point it distorts than it is at present.

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Offline Scott_150

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Re: A little help?
« Reply #6 on: 10 January 2007, 12:28 »
Thanks for such a long reply!!

I think i understnad it.. lol and i think i will end up taking this route..

"Now, when you add a sub to take care of the low stuff you can then filter out these low-end frequencies (using capacitors) from your full range speakers. This will allow you to drive your factory speakers harder before they start to croak; Make them twice as effecient and you can work them twice as hard.

A sub amp can easily be added to your existing headunit and would be installable (even for a novice) in a couple of hours.

Allow the balance of the day for filtering out your existing speakers (you do need to get to them afterall, which takes some time - allow an hour per corner of the car).

Next I would look at changing your head unit - future system expansion will be made considerably easier with high quality (and hi-voltage) pre-outs. Furthermore, the quality of signal output is going to be much higher, another factor that decides the ceiling of non-distorted sound; there's no point having a speaker set up capable of producing clear and devestating sound if the signal they're being fed is total garbage.

This also gives the ability to play MP3 cd's or connect an ipod etc etc."

With the filter things...what do they look like??


Offline S11EPS

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Re: A little help?
« Reply #7 on: 10 January 2007, 17:00 »
They are very small, effectively just one or a number of capacitors soldered together (depending on the requency at which they operate) to form a high pass filter.

These should be installed in the positive wire of the signal prior to the crossover. this means that the signal arriving at your speakers will not contain anything lower than, for example, 100Hz.

You will be surpised how much harder you can drive your speakers when they aren't trying to reproduce these sounds

Leave that to the sub......

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Offline Scott_150

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Re: A little help?
« Reply #8 on: 10 January 2007, 17:08 »
Sounds great but im kind of lost! lol...If i asked a car audio shop to do this would they b e able to is it a common thing?  Also do you know roughly how much they charge to do such a thing?

Thanks alot for your help!

Offline S11EPS

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Re: A little help?
« Reply #9 on: 10 January 2007, 17:30 »
Ok, if you buy a specific filter in a car audio shop off the shelf you will probably pay a ludicrous amount for each one, as they will come in a nice plastic box, all packaged up etc etc etc. Probably £15-20 each corner.

Now, you aren't going to see these things, they're going to be soldered in-line behind your door panel somewhere so the point of buying something that looks nice and is stupidly expensive is..... exactly, none.

What you need to remember is these things contain one resisitor and one capacitor, both of fixed values, which would cost, at most, a couple of quid each from RS components. A real high quality audio shop (one that does its own install, good ones) should carry these parts on the shelf.

Go into your nearest decent audio shop, tell them you want to make your own high pass filters at around the 80-100Hz mark. They will sell you the bits you need (you should get four resistors and four capacitors, get a couple of spares of each too to practice with) for no more than £20.

Get yourself down to homebase, spend £15 on a soldering iron and make your own, simple as. ask them to show you which way round you solder the components together and which way round you fit them and away you go (if they're especially nice, they may even spend five minutes and solder them up for you.

Then you just need to fit them, whcih you do buy interupting (cutting) the positive speaker wire going to the crossover, and fitting (soldering is the best method) your new filter in between the two ends of your wire.

Alternatively, get on ebay and get yourself that new headunit, it will have the capability to do this built in. Plus it will already have preouts, and you;re going to need to spend about £20 on the adapter that will give you those from your existing head unit....

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