Any paint experts out there????

[Thom89]

Tim, you got some good replies from this post, but I thought I would chip in with some of my opinions/ideas that may help you through what could turn out to be a nightmare!
First things first.. does your car have any rot that needs sorting before you even start thinking about paint, if yes, get a fixed price from a reputable body shop to fit genuine panels .... wings, doors, bonnet etc, rear wheel arches, and sills are OK to fit non genuine, but should be seam welded, and not "tack" welded for a proper job. non genuine panels are a complete waste of time and money, and should only be used if nothing else is available
If you think your car is rust free, take it to a body shop, and ask if they could give it the once over just to make sure there are no hidden nasties that could escalate the price of anyone trying to repair/repaint the car..also ask for an estimate at the same time, repaint on a level car should be around £1200 to £1800+vat,  typically £400+vat is what you would pay just for the materials alone.  2KClear lacquer over base is the best option to go for, wether its metallic or a straight colour... Solid colour topcoat is an option, but paint is more likely to fade (especially, Tornado, Mars red), but is slightly cheaper to do, as no lacquer is involved, Metallic topcoats should be avoided at all costs, if any paint manufactures still do them!
Stay away from Isocyanate's! leave it to the pro's, primers, and lacquers that are 2 part, have Isocyanate's, ONLY a fresh air fed breathing apparatus is suitable, nothing and I mean nothing else is safe, especially,nuisance dust masks, or even charcoal filtered.
I've been painting cars for many years, and painted quite a few self preps, each time I say never again!!! generally you end up with MORE work, putting things "right" and the reputation of the painter/garage suffers because the job looks like Stevie Wonder did it!
If you want to help, to save money, just strip off all the parts that are on the car, this could save you 15-20hrs labour, my best advice is save up the extra money, and have it done by a "shop" that has excellent references, and a realistic timescale, that is stuck to!
Tom

[topher]

^^Agree.

Every "self-prep" i've seen has needed to be pretty much done again. Also if you're forking out for a compressor and spraygun... a proper mask/regulator isn't too much on top of that. If you think you can get away with a cheapo mask.. feel free to ask my brother how painful the 2 lots of nasal surgery he's had to have was. (plus the embarassment factor of having to have tampons stuck up your nose afterwards )

[HARDCOR3]

well i agree with some of the above, but most of it i belive is a bit far fetched, especially your price, fair play if someone wants to pay that sort of money, but i'd expect a full shell re-colour for that sort of candy, as for seam welding panels, wings on a golf are bolt on, so don't know how your gonna seam weld that, and as for after market panels, yeah, they tend to be poorly fittin at times, but then that is down to the competence of the fitter as to how well they look, check out the pics of my car, the drivers wing with the vent is an aftermarket copy,  it bolted straight up perfect, now is it worth spending nearly £200 on a genuine VW wing or £24 like i paid, you deceide and as for paint alone being £400, bah, even water based paints wouldn't cost that much, 2k is about £24 a litre, laquer is around the same, my estimate for paint is no more than £150, and our paint is made by DeBeer's in Holland, and is real quality stuff....

using base coat and laquer (solid colour) is the best way to go, i agree, but thats all well and good on a full job, you paint part of an old car that way, and it'd stand out like a sore thumb....

as for your paint theory about it being a real No No, never heard so much flannel, yes it's very dangerous stuff and if you do it for a living, get an air-fed mask (which i use), but if your doing 1 car, you'll be fine, as long as you have some sort of protection, having been painting for some years, including lorries and i've never keeled over yet, and as i say, i suffer from asthma....

as for 1800+VAT, maybee i should put my price up.....

[TIM20]

Cheers for all of the replies, can you see where my confusion stems from???

Has anyone had experience of the new water based paints??? such as finish quality and ease of use


the car is currently a bare shell with no rot or rust at all!!! thats why i bought it

I aslo agree on genuine pannels, i tend to buy second hand genuine ones from scrap yards as i agree the fit is better. 

Hopefully this thread will help other people out there hoping to paint there car.

As to home jobs looking bad, i have seen some 'pro' jobs that i think i could have done better with rattle cans simply on the basis of time spent on prep and and finsihing.  Im a real perfectionist!!!


Tim

[HARDCOR3]

£800 plus VAT, thats all i can say.......

this is from a sh!tty little compressor,it's an out of the gun finish and poor poor conditions, you decide how poor it is, then tell me it's not worth £800 for a full job, now we've got a propper set up and premises......

[Dub_Dude_16v]

Won't a couple of halfords rattle cans do the job? 

[Uruk Hai]

As previously said on this thread the MOST important thing is the prep work and taking the car to bodyshop doesn't allways guarantee a good job. My mate runs a shop that sells paint and consumables to the car repair trade and the differences in the quality of work he sees is scary so be careful who you use to do work on your motor. As for the issue of spraying 2 pack without the propper breathing gear thats down to the individual but when I asked I was told (and agree) bollocks to risking your health over a coat of paint 

[Horney]

As for the issue of spraying 2 pack without the propper breathing gear thats down to the individual but when I asked I was told (and agree) nuts to risking your health over a coat of paint 

Too right, I have a few mates who work in the trade and say a proper air fed mask is the ONLY way to deal with 2pac without risking your health.

Nick

[Thom89]

well i agree with some of the above, but most of it i believe is a bit far fetched, especially your price, fair play if someone wants to pay that sort of money, but I'd expect a full shell re-colour for that sort of candy, as for seam welding panels, wings on a golf are bolt on, so don't know how your gonna seam weld that, and as for after market panels, yeah, they tend to be poorly fittin at times, but then that is down to the competence of the fitter as to how well they look, check out the pics of my car, the drivers wing with the vent is an aftermarket copy,  it bolted straight up perfect, now is it worth spending nearly £200 on a genuine VW wing or £24 like i paid, you decide and as for paint alone being £400, bah, even water based paints wouldn't cost that much, 2k is about £24 a liter, lacquer is around the same, my estimate for paint is no more than £150, and our paint is made by DeBeer's in Holland, and is real quality stuff....

using base coat and lacquer (solid colour) is the best way to go, i agree, but thats all well and good on a full job, you paint part of an old car that way, and it'd stand out like a sore thumb....

as for your paint theory about it being a real No No, never heard so much flannel, yes it's very dangerous stuff and if you do it for a living, get an air-fed mask (which i use), but if your doing 1 car, you'll be fine, as long as you have some sort of protection, having been painting for some years, including lorries and I've never keeled over yet, and as i say, i suffer from asthma....

as for 1800+VAT, maybee i should put my price up.....

Firstly,  I never stated that "wings " should be seam welded! please read again! what I am stating is non genuine wheel arches are OK to fit, as long as they are seam welded, or continuously welded, and not "tack" welded into place, otherwise moisture will penetrate the overlap of the 2 panels, eventually going rusty..
Secondly, I can make any non genuine panel fit! the problem is the very poor quality of the steel that is used in manufacturing, expect to get 2-3 years before the panel reaches a point that its no longer viable to paint yet again! with the amount of people specializing in VWs.. breakers etc.. and Ebay, pattern panels ARE a waste of money!
Third, Your estimate for paint! £150... how do you arrive at that figure! we are talking cars with approx 11 painted surfaces, that works out at just under £14 per panel, let alone painting the door shuts! and you've not even included Sanding disks, filler, scotchbright, 3-4 rolls of masking tape, masking paper, etch primer, spirit wipe, tack rags, stonechip coating, wetndry, polish, heat and electricity anticorrosion treatment, believe me, by the time you done, you'll be up to the figure that I said!
Fourth, Isocyanate paints have cyanide in the them.. nuff said!
Please don't think I'm having a go at you, I'm not.. Ive seen your car it looks great, fit finish etc... just don't sell yourself short, its not worth it, If your any good, you'll allways be busy, If you need to discuss how to charge for things the right way, PM me
cheers
Tom

[wag,en,volks]

sounds to me that you are both talking sense and know what your on about !,
but have got your wires crossed somewhere along the line !!,