Thinking of buying new?

[AndyGTI]

@Hertsman. New cars that have any excitement in them and are under £40k are now getting few and far between.

Even Hyundai with i20N & i30N seem to be on shaky ground. it was a year old but I watched a video report that suggested Hyundai was not going to keep them going. Neither are available to order from factory at present. Although there has been autumn sightings of i30N there doesn’t seem to be any certainty of it being for Europe. So who knows. at present it’s under £40k but any new model might go through barrier if anything does launch,

Only thing that is appearing is GR Yaris but not really a family hatch. That will hopefully be under £40k

The VED rates keep marching upwards so the current £570 pa could well be £600 plus by time of budget.

I checked Drivethedeal in January and all the normal VW vehicles had been pulled. The planned switch to agency model isn’t great for consumers, but perhaps when the market collapses they will realise the error of their ways.

However we are entering new ground with the ever tightening CO2 emissions average targets and also the Zero Emissions Vehicle Mandate from 1 Jan 2024.

When manufacturers are trying to balance their sales…guess which models will be the easiest to drop (or limit supply). I suggest that performance Golf orders are not likely to speed up and I think (although makers will deny it) the high performance models will be closely controlled and sales limited to aid their other targets that need to be met.

[fredgroves]

I wonder how many of the 1.9 million car sales last year were actually sold at less than the rep though?

You have to remember we here are an odd bunch. We like hot hatches and we fight for a bargain to get one.

I think that represents a drop in the ocean vs 1.9 million sales...

The biggest impact will be on leasing I'd have thought. Although I suspect it will be a temporary blip because once one business "has a good idea" the others jump on the bandwagon fairly quickly...

[Hertsman]

I am not averse to EV hot hatches, my present issue with EV is the whole charging scenario, for someone who does not have a drive and does occasionally do some distance driving its a no from me, the double no, is that there is not a single car like the the look of, and performs in manner of cars look to drive.

However, we have seen the concept GTI and we know EV are capable of some ridiculous performance, so is there hope yet for matching GTI and R performance EV's?

They are building a charging super hub near me off a main junction, so if infrastructure does improve to point its a similar experience to what have now of fill up (charge up) and certain 300 miles, then i am closer, but early cars costs would be prohibitive still imagine, similar if not more to MK8 prices.

Would say, they might be more accessible on company scheme with the zero/reduced BIK, but no way the government do not close that down, and they will just levy a charge that is not linked to c02

[fredgroves]

BIK on zero emissions vehicles is 2% and rises 1% a year for 2025 to 2028.

Beyond that who's to say.

Almost certainly at some point this year we will get a regime change too and what they decide to do is anyone's guess but they have said they will reinstate the 2030 target I believe.

I would say this is the time for one last roll of the dice on a petrol hot hatch but I think I've had that roll already three years ago.

I did think bev might have advanced enough for me to not find it useless by now but that's not true either.

I think it's dull cheap petrol motoring for me at some point this year. I've had my fun.

[Hertsman]

BIK on zero emissions vehicles is 2% and rises 1% a year for 2025 to 2028.

Beyond that who's to say.

Almost certainly at some point this year we will get a regime change too and what they decide to do is anyone's guess but they have said they will reinstate the 2030 target I believe.

I would say this is the time for one last roll of the dice on a petrol hot hatch but I think I've had that roll already three years ago.

I did think bev might have advanced enough for me to not find it useless by now but that's not true either.

I think it's dull cheap petrol motoring for me at some point this year. I've had my fun.

Bought wife a 2019 R late last year, relatively low mileage, immaculate, drives great, 300BHP and AWD will never be not enough, and being the run out MK 7.5 has all the tech would need and though there is always potential to issue, the O/S is robust and reliability track record is sound.

When my 128Ti goes back next year, no way be looking at new, it will be at these MK 7.5 Golfs or maybe a M135i just to keep me going long enough till some of the last performance hatches of coming years fall into my price band, and then hopefully the generation of performance EV's come online.

So, my answer to way everything going is 5 + years cars, but the ground is different now, older cars used to lack tech, and some performance in comparison to new, but that's not a gap anymore, you lose nothing in experience in a near older car now. 

[AndyGTI]

Looks like Cupra have been listening (on your performance EV request)....

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-cupra-born-vz-hot-hatch-boosts-power-322bhp

@Hertsman - I agree that 2nd hand cars seem to be the way to go with new prices getting so high

@fredgroves - yes I think you're right the performance car market for new cars might be 10-15% of the new car total. So if we stop buying the makers probably won't be too bothered.

[Hertsman]

Looks like Cupra have been listening (on your performance EV request)....

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-cupra-born-vz-hot-hatch-boosts-power-322bhp

@Hertsman - I agree that 2nd hand cars seem to be the way to go with new prices getting so high

@fredgroves - yes I think you're right the performance car market for new cars might be 10-15% of the new car total. So if we stop buying the makers probably won't be too bothered.

It looks good, but to my uneducated eyes, pretty damn close to the concept eGTI and so are they are one of the same? Also, likely  to be around £50,000? its just too much!

I am pretty rubbish on understanding EV, is the mild performance, despite 322BHP down to weight?

Also, is that 335 miles range based on urban driving, could that be below 200 if car is driven to its performance badge?

My trust in my fuel gauge is pretty good, it linearly drops even if pushing along and know with some certainty when need to refuel,  do have this fear that you driving along with over 100 miles range, put foot down a bit and its suddenly flashing need to recharge soon, much like my Iphone when it's at 70%, play some videos etc, and you into the red

Also on EV, have read stories where if batteries 'go' and need replacing that would cost more than car, so car is a scrapper, so doubt want to own an EV, some form or lease would seem savvy. And also, are all these batteries going to be recycled at end of life?

If EV experience were like running an ICE, the what drives it would not bother me, but costly to buy and still too many questions for me and so my driving experience will remain ICE and in the 5 year + territory.

[AndyGTI]

Looks like Cupra have been listening (on your performance EV request)....

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-cupra-born-vz-hot-hatch-boosts-power-322bhp

@Hertsman - I agree that 2nd hand cars seem to be the way to go with new prices getting so high

@fredgroves - yes I think you're right the performance car market for new cars might be 10-15% of the new car total. So if we stop buying the makers probably won't be too bothered.

It looks good, but to my uneducated eyes, pretty damn close to the concept eGTI and so are they are one of the same? Also, likely  to be around £50,000? its just too much!

I am pretty rubbish on understanding EV, is the mild performance, despite 322BHP down to weight?

Also, is that 335 miles range based on urban driving, could that be below 200 if car is driven to its performance badge?

My trust in my fuel gauge is pretty good, it linearly drops even if pushing along and know with some certainty when need to refuel,  do have this fear that you driving along with over 100 miles range, put foot down a bit and its suddenly flashing need to recharge soon, much like my Iphone when it's at 70%, play some videos etc, and you into the red

Also on EV, have read stories where if batteries 'go' and need replacing that would cost more than car, so car is a scrapper, so doubt want to own an EV, some form or lease would seem savvy. And also, are all these batteries going to be recycled at end of life?

If EV experience were like running an ICE, the what drives it would not bother me, but costly to buy and still too many questions for me and so my driving experience will remain ICE and in the 5 year + territory.

Haha yes I think it will be £50k or plus

No it’s not related to the GTI concept. The Cupra Born is linked to ID3 so it’s on MEB platform.

The EV GTI concept is based on ID2 and that’s a cut down version of MEB platform.  The Golf mk9 (EV) is planned to be on the new SSP platform and won’t appear until 2028

Range wise, yes the 335mile range should probably be taken with pinch of salt, taking rough measure of range being about 80% so maybe 270mile range

Yes it’s all (relatively) early days in Electric world (yes I know Nissan leaf was about 2010j but I’m just saying  batteries still fairly similar ie wet cells. Will we get solid state and will they be amazing for efficiency, range and performance.

[fredgroves]

The problem with BEV range is that its down to a lot of factors....

it performs better in stop start urban driving and not motorway (yes counter intuitive for ICE drivers)

Things like having the heating on really kills the batteries (an electric heater is all you have.... no heat from the engine!)

Lastly ambient temperature effects the battery - cold is very bad.

So a typical UK cold wet winter with you having the heating, lights, windscreen wipers on etc and trying to go down the motorway.... the range is really going to drop right off.

I'm sure MonkeyHanger wrote a lot about his BEV experiences on here - which pretty much align with other opinions.

Pretty certain that newer battery tech will fix this, but when is it coming? Its always "soon". Its supposed to be faster charging (assuming you can find the right charger...), longer range, lighter and less vulnerable to cold problems.

Which then gives me uncertainty about buying old tech that will be worthless once the new batteries come along.

[monkeyhanger]

The problem with BEV range is that its down to a lot of factors....

it performs better in stop start urban driving and not motorway (yes counter intuitive for ICE drivers)

Things like having the heating on really kills the batteries (an electric heater is all you have.... no heat from the engine!)

Lastly ambient temperature effects the battery - cold is very bad.

So a typical UK cold wet winter with you having the heating, lights, windscreen wipers on etc and trying to go down the motorway.... the range is really going to drop right off.

I'm sure MonkeyHanger wrote a lot about his BEV experiences on here - which pretty much align with other opinions.

Pretty certain that newer battery tech will fix this, but when is it coming? Its always "soon". Its supposed to be faster charging (assuming you can find the right charger...), longer range, lighter and less vulnerable to cold problems.

Which then gives me uncertainty about buying old tech that will be worthless once the new batteries come along.

I've already got the current quickest Born, the v2 e-boost 231ps, so I can let you know first hand about efficiencies.

Cold weather kills efficiency on EVs, because the battery array needs to be warmed to use it. For short journeys e.g. 2 mile school run, the battery warming takes as much energy as moving the car. At 0C, on that 2 mile school run, I'm lucky if I hit 2 miles per kWh. It's 4 miles per kWh in the Summer.

On a long motorway run, in Winter, eventually the battery warming effect wears off and you can get around 3.0 miles per kWh sat at 70 on a 100 mile+ run if you have the cabin heating on a minimum 16C. If you need cabin heating like a reptile does, figure more like 2.6 miles per kWh. In the height of Summer, you can do 3.9 miles per kWh sat on the motorway with the aircon on.

The "new" battery size of 79kWh seems the same as the old one, with less headrace. All batteries are bigger than their stated capacity. This one has an 82kWh actual capacity, with 77 or 79 kWh usable (this is to prevent overcharging or thermal variation overloading cells), mine is the 58kWh variant (usable), with 62kWh actual capacity.

Given its weight, the Born is quite agile (compared to pretty much every other BEV out there), but it's like chucking a bog standard Golf about, it's no chuckable hot hatch. Given that the 77kWh battery pack Born weighs in at a hefty 1970ish kg, this is no GTI.

If you scale up my figures for the bigger battery, you're talking a realistic 213 motorway miles at 70mph in Winter for this car with low heating, charged to 100% down to 10% before you really feel you need to stop for a charge.

Figure 277 Summer motorway miles on same terms. Knock 20% off these figures for driving at 80mph. Rapid charging costs about 79p per kWh motorway adjacent right now, so your costs per mile go up by a third in Winter. 20p per mile away from home in the Summer and 27p per mile in the Winter - dearer than fuelling a Golf R/S3.

For me, BEVs only make sense if you have a home charger and very rarely venture beyond its range. No-one is buying BEVs privately brand new right now, it's just fleet sales, as a result, the depreciation is horrendous - these cars on PCP will be handed back at a loss, worth about 80% of the HFV quoted for ours. When we bought ours 2 years ago new, GFV was about £21k at 3 years, Motorway value it at about that now. If you buy a BEV, don't buy new, they lose too much, grab a used bargain.

Most BEVs with amazing 0-62 times are one trick ponies and handle like sh!te outside a straight line. My nate just leased a Smart #1 Brabus with 3.8s 0-62, but it corner like a double decker bus, and looks like a Golf sized Vauxhall Adam.