Author Topic: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....  (Read 29170 times)

Offline david25

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #50 on: 05 June 2022, 11:20 »
If you can get free electric then it’s a big plus.

Well, I was just trying to make the maths easier. My situation, an old MK6 maybe worth £8000 against a UK Mini Electric two £30,000 new or £26,000 ex-demo. Cost to change a minimum of £18,000, I typically keep my cars for the long term, so how much could I save over five years?

If I continue to only use one tank per month, for easy maths £100 thats £1200 a year or £6000 over five years.

The grant has been reduced to £1500 https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-car-van-grants/overview and the home charger to £350
Now = 2011 MK6 GTI - Reflex Silver
Past = 2006 MK5 GTI - Tornado Red and Solid Black

Offline Exonian

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #51 on: 05 June 2022, 11:37 »
A Level 2 is circa £31k now and ex-demos seem to be at nearly that price, with even second hand Level 3’s going for £35k still. If time isn’t an issue then there looks to be little saved between used and new. Factor in PCP with higher APR on used then new often makes better financial sense.

Bear in mind the electric car will have minimal transmission loss the actual power at the wheels between a 230PS GTI and a Mini EV will likely be less far apart than the crank figures suggest. On the road performance will be similar.

If I didn’t need a bit more range and decent rear seat accommodation I’d buy a Mini Electric in a heartbeat. In fact I very nearly did several times anyway. They’re great fun and built like tanks.
‘23 8R, ‘20 8CS, ‘19 135iX, ‘19 TCR, ‘17 Ed40, ‘17 GTD, ‘15 7R, ‘13 GTI PP, ‘11 GTI, ‘09 GTI, ‘98 Ibiza Cupra, ‘05 GTI, ‘06 Polo GTI, ‘04 GT TDI, ‘05 Fabia vRS, ‘02 GTI T, ‘03 Ibiza TDI 130, ‘01 Leon 180, ‘89 mk2 16v, ‘99 Ibiza TDI, ‘96 VR6, ‘98 Ibiza TDI, ‘92 VR6, ‘88 mk2 8v, ‘92 Polo G40, ‘91 mk2 8v, ‘89 mk2 8v, 205 GTI 1.9, ‘83 mk1 GTI, ‘80 Scirocco GTI, plus some others I’ve forgotten 

Offline david25

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #52 on: 05 June 2022, 11:55 »
Yes, I was stretching the meaning of ex-demo, this is cheapest https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205125629923 at £25,000 versus £31,000 for a new electric 2 (minus the £1500 grant makes £29,500)

However I finance the remaining ~18,000 its still "a lot" without recovering significant running cost savings.

« Last Edit: 05 June 2022, 12:34 by david25 »
Now = 2011 MK6 GTI - Reflex Silver
Past = 2006 MK5 GTI - Tornado Red and Solid Black

Offline david25

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #53 on: 05 June 2022, 11:56 »
Ignore
Now = 2011 MK6 GTI - Reflex Silver
Past = 2006 MK5 GTI - Tornado Red and Solid Black

Offline Exonian

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #54 on: 05 June 2022, 12:13 »
I must admit I discounted the £1500 grant as it could be pulled before the car is delivered so can’t be relied upon.

There are a few facelift Polo GTI’s in various specs on their way to the UK which can be had for around £27k to £29k just to muddy the waters!  :grin:
These would do an easy 40 mpg in daily use I reckon and have very similar performance to the Mini EV. I’d buy one in preference to a standard mk8 Golf GTI right now.

For an £18k balance to fund between cars I think a lowish rate personal loan would possibly be better.
‘23 8R, ‘20 8CS, ‘19 135iX, ‘19 TCR, ‘17 Ed40, ‘17 GTD, ‘15 7R, ‘13 GTI PP, ‘11 GTI, ‘09 GTI, ‘98 Ibiza Cupra, ‘05 GTI, ‘06 Polo GTI, ‘04 GT TDI, ‘05 Fabia vRS, ‘02 GTI T, ‘03 Ibiza TDI 130, ‘01 Leon 180, ‘89 mk2 16v, ‘99 Ibiza TDI, ‘96 VR6, ‘98 Ibiza TDI, ‘92 VR6, ‘88 mk2 8v, ‘92 Polo G40, ‘91 mk2 8v, ‘89 mk2 8v, 205 GTI 1.9, ‘83 mk1 GTI, ‘80 Scirocco GTI, plus some others I’ve forgotten 

Offline david25

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #55 on: 05 June 2022, 13:08 »
I must admit I discounted the £1500 grant as it could be pulled before the car is delivered so can’t be relied upon.

There are a few facelift Polo GTI’s in various specs on their way to the UK which can be had for around £27k to £29k just to muddy the waters!  :grin:
These would do an easy 40 mpg in daily use I reckon and have very similar performance to the Mini EV. I’d buy one in preference to a standard mk8 Golf GTI right now.

For an £18k balance to fund between cars I think a lowish rate personal loan would possibly be better.

Yes! What will be the outlook in five years time I wonder? Which one of them will hold more value?
Now = 2011 MK6 GTI - Reflex Silver
Past = 2006 MK5 GTI - Tornado Red and Solid Black

Offline Exonian

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #56 on: 05 June 2022, 13:39 »
The Mini’s tech will be outdated (but it’ll still have a cult following) and the Polo will probably also be out of production (with a smaller cult following) so it’s hard to guess. We’ll all be using Roubles by then so….  :whistle:

With domestic energy prices rising astronomically and commercial fast chargers getting as expensive to use as fossil fuel it’s impossible to guesstimate how much it’ll be to run an EV in a few years time, which will affect used values one way or the other.
Petrol prices seem to be going only one way too.
It’ll get to the stage where it’s a 50/50 split on whether people can actually use an EV to daily because of charging limitations, so therefore once uptake hits a certain point demand will level out until infrastructure catches up. That in turn will limit the amount of ICE cars being registered to a point where they too will become a steady amount much lower than now, meaning demand for used versions of either should reflect whatever the market sits at during that point in time. Longer term EV’s are expected to take over so maybe fossil fuel will become harder to get hold of thus restricting its desirability further. Those are my thoughts. I’m usually wrong!
‘23 8R, ‘20 8CS, ‘19 135iX, ‘19 TCR, ‘17 Ed40, ‘17 GTD, ‘15 7R, ‘13 GTI PP, ‘11 GTI, ‘09 GTI, ‘98 Ibiza Cupra, ‘05 GTI, ‘06 Polo GTI, ‘04 GT TDI, ‘05 Fabia vRS, ‘02 GTI T, ‘03 Ibiza TDI 130, ‘01 Leon 180, ‘89 mk2 16v, ‘99 Ibiza TDI, ‘96 VR6, ‘98 Ibiza TDI, ‘92 VR6, ‘88 mk2 8v, ‘92 Polo G40, ‘91 mk2 8v, ‘89 mk2 8v, 205 GTI 1.9, ‘83 mk1 GTI, ‘80 Scirocco GTI, plus some others I’ve forgotten 

Offline david25

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #57 on: 05 June 2022, 14:12 »
Agreed!

BP Pulse costs for "guests" are just like petrol!

I'm more concerned with range versus charging in my area (Tesco, swimming pool, BP Pulse and a new charging car park) means I could access medium or fast chargers) range is a challenge on odd long trips.

In terms of my £18,000 bet, well I am deciding between running an ICE car at around £1500 a year or getting a battery model (cost to change £18,000 or £300 per month over five years)


The Mini's battery has an eight year / 100k mile warranty
Now = 2011 MK6 GTI - Reflex Silver
Past = 2006 MK5 GTI - Tornado Red and Solid Black

Offline SRGTD

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #58 on: 05 June 2022, 16:08 »
Agreed!

BP Pulse costs for "guests" are just like petrol!

I'm more concerned with range versus charging in my area (Tesco, swimming pool, BP Pulse and a new charging car park) means I could access medium or fast chargers) range is a challenge on odd long trips.

In terms of my £18,000 bet, well I am deciding between running an ICE car at around £1500 a year or getting a battery model (cost to change £18,000 or £300 per month over five years)


The Mini's battery has an eight year / 100k mile warranty

If you have concerns over EV range, then don’t overlook the following;
  • range reduces during colder months; more so if the car’s battery isn’t preconditioned to warm it optimum operating temperature. I’ve seen figures of 15% - 25% range reduction quoted for EV’s driven on a cold battery during the winter compared to summer use.
  • battery degradation as it ages; an EV can lose around 2% of its range per year. Not significant, but maybe a consideration if planning on keeping an EV longer term that has a relatively small range to start with when new.
  • Fast charging; the EV auto industry accepts the view that faster charging will increase the rate at which an electric vehicle's battery capacity will decline, so regular use of commercial fast chargers is unlikely to be good for a battery’s longer term efficiency.
Another small EV that hasn’t been mentioned that isn’t an SUV but might be worth considering is the Peugeot 208e / Vauxhall Corsa e - essentially the same car under the skin. Both of these generally get pretty favourable reviews and have a good range for a small EV - official figures quote around 220 miles, so probably 170 - 180 miles in real world driving conditions. Residuals probably aren’t as good as for a Mini Electric, but if range is important, then maybe worth a look. They also offer better practicality than the Mini (bigger boot, more rear passenger space, rear doors). The Peugeot 208e / Vauxhall Corsa e battery also has an 8 year warranty, which I think is pretty much the norm with many EV’s currently.

Apologies for mentioning ‘Vauxhall’ on a VW forum; I know it’s been frowned upon in the past :grin:.
2020 Polo GTI Plus; Pure White, DSG (because they all are)
Gone but not forgotten;
2016 Polo GTI; Blue Silk
2011 mk6 Golf GTD; Carbon Grey
2007 mk5 Golf GT (2.0 170bhp TDI version); Deep Black Pearl
2002  mk4 Golf GTI (the 150 bhp diesel version); Deep Black Pearl

Offline david25

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #59 on: 05 June 2022, 18:28 »
Agreed!

BP Pulse costs for "guests" are just like petrol!

I'm more concerned with range versus charging in my area (Tesco, swimming pool, BP Pulse and a new charging car park) means I could access medium or fast chargers) range is a challenge on odd long trips.

In terms of my £18,000 bet, well I am deciding between running an ICE car at around £1500 a year or getting a battery model (cost to change £18,000 or £300 per month over five years)


The Mini's battery has an eight year / 100k mile warranty

If you have concerns over EV range, then don’t overlook the following;
  • range reduces during colder months; more so if the car’s battery isn’t preconditioned to warm it optimum operating temperature. I’ve seen figures of 15% - 25% range reduction quoted for EV’s driven on a cold battery during the winter compared to summer use.
  • battery degradation as it ages; an EV can lose around 2% of its range per year. Not significant, but maybe a consideration if planning on keeping an EV longer term that has a relatively small range to start with when new.
  • Fast charging; the EV auto industry accepts the view that faster charging will increase the rate at which an electric vehicle's battery capacity will decline, so regular use of commercial fast chargers is unlikely to be good for a battery’s longer term efficiency.
Another small EV that hasn’t been mentioned that isn’t an SUV but might be worth considering is the Peugeot 208e / Vauxhall Corsa e - essentially the same car under the skin. Both of these generally get pretty favourable reviews and have a good range for a small EV - official figures quote around 220 miles, so probably 170 - 180 miles in real world driving conditions. Residuals probably aren’t as good as for a Mini Electric, but if range is important, then maybe worth a look. They also offer better practicality than the Mini (bigger boot, more rear passenger space, rear doors). The Peugeot 208e / Vauxhall Corsa e battery also has an 8 year warranty, which I think is pretty much the norm with many EV’s currently.

Apologies for mentioning ‘Vauxhall’ on a VW forum; I know it’s been frowned upon in the past :grin:.

I agree on all your points,regular 150Kw charging is really only for people leasing. Its just the same as using 65w charging on your mobile phone.

The Corsa is technically better compared to the Mini, 50kw/h battery, better efficiency, bigger. But I've discounted because of the negatives mentioned here



I overlooked the Peugeot 208e but will investigate it now, thanks.
Now = 2011 MK6 GTI - Reflex Silver
Past = 2006 MK5 GTI - Tornado Red and Solid Black