GTI Clubsport, Season 2, Episode 1

[Exonian]

Are you telling us a 405 GRD estate is now a classic car? 
306 and 405 D-Turbos used to be everywhere, where are they all now?


To be honest, I can’t think of many modern 4 cyl turbo cars that stir my soul. Just crank up those 90’s indie classics and forget about engine noises!

You’re quite right though, so long as there’s demand there will be parts and places to fix cars. Until autonomous cars are de-rigeur and while fossil fuels are still affordable and available there will still be a good market for ICE cars. Battery cars will need to become far more affordable to rank and file mortals like myself and offer the right ownership experience before the keys to ICE cars are finally hung up for good. I’m open minded about it all.

[fredgroves]

Here's a silly question... A bev is more expensive because of what?

Surely the complexity and cost of ice power and power transmission is more than the simplicity of electric? Even if the battery is expensive, it can't be more than a complex two litre turbo and dsg can it?

[fredgroves]

Kind of answering my own question...

https://insideevs.com/news/444542/evs-45-percent-more-expensive-make-ice/amp/

Not sure that's like for like though. Most Bev's seem to be suv style... So you'd have to compare them to their dinosaur burning friends.

[Splashalot]

.... Battery cars will need to become far more affordable to rank and file mortals like myself and offer the right ownership experience before the keys to ICE cars are finally hung up for good. I’m open minded about it all.

Wholeheartedly agree, Exonian.  The local motoring press down here are still running with the "price parity between BEV and ICE by 2025" line.  Whilst that still may be feasible, I've long had a theory that this is being achieved mostly by increasing ICE prices to near BEV levels. 

The article Fred linked is very interesting.  The current price differences are largely due to the cost of batteries.  Whether or not the cost of the battery component comes down.....who knows.  I've become quite cynical - I think car makers see the opportunity to increase profits by creating a new "normal" for car pricing in general, close to current BEV pricing. This was one of the reasons why I jumped now into EV ownership, rather than wait for the new battery tech and price decreases which are talked about but never seem to eventuate.

I think there will always be a market for ICE vehicles, especially the enthusiast-oriented ones.  BEVs are great, but they don't suit everyone's needs or wants.  Although I'm loving the EV experience, and especially the Mini, I've not ruled out buying another ICE in future.  I still gaze longinly at ND RF MX-5s every time I see one, and if VW can sort out the GTI's software, who knows.... 

[Yusee]

Are you telling us a 405 GRD estate is now a classic car? 

Only 10 left on uk roads, and 73 SORN. If that’s not a classic, I don’t know what is!
The kind of car that Practical Classics magazine would get excited about.

MX5 would make an excellent choice for a useable, enjoyable modern classic.

Good to hear the enthusiasts haven’t completely abandoned ICE. I was getting a little worried!

[fredgroves]

Yes it does kinda look like they are making electric cars "the same" by raising the price on ice.

I suspect nearer to the cutover we'll see extra tax on ice cars and fuel to the "cheap" electric.

The uk looks like its going to have road pricing soon, that will start the end...

[SRGTD]

Yes it does kinda look like they are making electric cars "the same" by raising the price on ice.

I suspect nearer to the cutover we'll see extra tax on ice cars and fuel to the "cheap" electric.

The uk looks like its going to have road pricing soon, that will start the end...

As the mix of vehicles on the road shifts towards a higher proportion of EV’s I think road pricing will be inevitable. HMRC will need a revenue source to offset the reduction in revenue (duty / VAT) from lower petrol / diesel sales and less VED revenue - assuming EV’s continue to attract zero rate VED.

[Foxy367]

Exonian an interesting write up thoroughly enjoyed reading it. I returned to Golf ownership with a Mk7.5 after a long hiatus of other cars and family type cars. When my wife got her Skoda Kodiaq I had a hankering to change my diesel estate for something a little more interesting and looked around at numerous performance hatchbacks. The issue I had was I'd come from Autos so wanted another for that boring work commute the DSG felt like the right mix to allow some fun on the twisties and the monotony of motorway runs in traffic.

The Clubsport was a step up again. Whilst the step up in performance is noticeable and the gearbox software feels better the the 7.5 the interior trim has definitely stepped backwards slightly. I too don't find the UI too difficult to master and would like some lit slidey buttons the rest of the car is perfect in its operation for me.

Its funny though the main reason for buying a gold for me was the looks. They are understated but sporty not in your face and shouty like say a Civic Type R but muscular enough to have a presence but also blend in when needed. The only other car I would possibly consider as a replacement would by a Hyundai I30 N (DSG now its available) but then it still wouldn't be my Golf which I'm now known for!!! 

The other point about BEV's I think they are like Betamax, I think/hope someone will come up with a VHS replacement which will render them obsolete. I can't in my tiny little brain compute how the whole life carbon of a BEV can possibly be better than an ICE. Especially when you consider a 300bhp sports hatch is able to achieve over 40mpg they just need to find a way to reduce the 169g/km CO2 emissions!

[fredgroves]

Have a read of this...

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/comparison/2021/sports-car-giant-test-2021/

[Exonian]

That’s quite a read Fred.
I think the way current prices are going the i20 would be the only one of that group I could afford!