First drive in the GTI on Snow and Ice...not good

[brettblade]

It's funny how the majority have managed just fine for years and years on one set of tyres but all of a sudden everyone jumps on the bandwagon and then it's frowned upon for not using winter tyres. They aren't always necessary for every part of the country and I think to be fair drivers with winter tyres on have an over inflated sense of safety thinking they'll be saved much like 4 wheel drive drivers too (not everyone  )

Totally agree with you.

I find it amusing that somebody above actually said Pirelli P-Zero's are "downright scary in cold weather, never mind ice/snow". I ran a B8 RS4 from brand new for 2 years, which came with these tyres fitted from the factory. Come rain, shine, cold, snow, they did the job of keeping my nearly 2 tonne car on the road without any problem. there was nothing scary about them, and in those 2yrs it included some very high speed continental jaunts in cold/rainy conditions. 

I had all-seasons on my last car (a Range Rover Sport) which had them fitted from the factory, and yes they are clearly grippier, but we're talking a 2-2.5 tonne car which I would argue needs them.

Driving to the conditions will be more of a benefit than running all-seasons and continuing to drive normally.

That would be me.  First sign of cold weather 4 months after buying the car (so Jan 17), I set off for work.  My road wasn't particularly bad, but was cold and had a dusting of snow.  That said, even the M3 from further down the road had no problem navigating out of the estate.  I pulled off the drive, drove 70 yards to a 90 degree right hand bend at about 10mph, turned early and gently, got hardly any traction and slid semi-sideways for the width of the road, almost hitting an A-Class that was parked there.  Parked my car back on drive, changed tyres.  You'll forgive me for thinking that the P Zeros are terrible in cold weather, because they are.  There are plenty of summer tyres that are "acceptable" in single digit and sub zero temperatures, e.g. Rainsports, but the P Zeros are not one of them.  It's the first time I've ever felt the need to take a summer tyre off during winter, having previously run (on different cars) Uniroyal RS2s, RS3s, Avon ZZ5s and Toyo T1Rs (which weren't great, but not P Zero bad in the cold).  I have a friend with an S3 that's just taken P Zeros off as he also found them lacking in cold weather traction.  They are, however, great tyres in warm and dry conditions, and not too bad in the (warmer) wet.

It's not car specific either, here's a whole thread about how terrible they are on Volvo 4x4s: https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/archive/index.php/t-171239.html
And a good read on PistonHeads:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1721307&i=0

Driving to the conditions with tyres suitable for the conditions is the safest way to drive.  There is no logical argument against winter tyres, unless you literally have no space to store whichever set is not on the car.

[kmpowell]

I pulled off the drive, drove 70 yards to a 90 degree right hand bend at about 10mph, turned early and gently, got hardly any traction and slid semi-sideways for the width of the road, almost hitting an A-Class that was parked there.  Parked my car back on drive, changed tyres.  You'll forgive me for thinking that the P Zeros are terrible in cold weather, because they are. 

So your dramatic conclusion that a brand of tyre used on high performance cars across the world is scarily unsafe, comes from you driving a grand total of 70yards in cold weather conditions?!?

Laughable.

[brettblade]

I pulled off the drive, drove 70 yards to a 90 degree right hand bend at about 10mph, turned early and gently, got hardly any traction and slid semi-sideways for the width of the road, almost hitting an A-Class that was parked there.  Parked my car back on drive, changed tyres.  You'll forgive me for thinking that the P Zeros are terrible in cold weather, because they are. 

So your dramatic conclusion that a brand of tyre used on high performance cars across the world is scarily unsafe, comes from you driving a grand total of 70yards in cold weather conditions?!?

Laughable.

No, it comes from my understanding of physics and glass transition (Tg).  That and having driven P Zeros on other cars, including aforementioned S3.  I did 70 yards in my car in light snow on that particular journey and then decided I wasn't willing to risk keeping the P Zeros on in cold weather any longer - travelling another 70 yards back on to the drive if you wanted to be really pedantic.

It's a high performance summer tyre fitted on high performance cars across the world, but it looks as though you'd rather conveniently ignore other similar cold weather experiences on this very thread, the couple of others that I linked to, and the many others on Google.

[kmpowell]

but it looks as though you'd rather conveniently ignore other similar cold weather experiences on this very thread, the couple of others that I linked to, and the many others on Google.

No, I'd rather go on my 26yrs driving experience, and actual real-world usage of performance cars, rather than internet stories and scaremongering. For every thread you can dig up saying they are scary, I could dig up a thread saying there is nothing wrong with them... e.g. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1704188&i=0

As said, I had PZeros on a 450hp (and nigh on 2 tonne) RS4 which I drove all year round (for two years, most of teh time fully loaded with two kids, buggy, baby paraphernalia, dog etc) in all sorts of weather, not once did I think "ooooh that was scary", if it was cold I slowed down and adapted my driving to the conditions that might see me hitting black ice or slippy surfaces.

I agree that high performance road tyres will not work as well in colder temperatures as they would in hot temperatures (that's a no brainer!), but no matter what summer tyres you are on (from a good brand), the differences are negligible.

As you said, as I said, and as every sensible person says, simply drive to the conditions or fit all-season tyres if you're that worried.

[brettblade]

but it looks as though you'd rather conveniently ignore other similar cold weather experiences on this very thread, the couple of others that I linked to, and the many others on Google.

No, I go on my 26yrs driving experience, and actual real-world usage of performance cars. Rather than internet stories and scaremongering. For every thread you can dig up saying they are scary, I could dig up a thread saying there is nothing wrong with them... e.g. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1704188&i=0

As said, I had PZeros on a 450hp (and nigh on 2 tonne) RS4 which I drove all year round (for two years) in all sorts of weather, not once did I think "ooooh that was scary", if it was cold I slowed down and adapted my driving to the conditions that might see me hitting black ice or slippy surfaces.

As you said, as I said, and as every sensible person says, simply drive to the conditions. High performance road tyres will not work as well in colder temperatures as they would in hot temperatures, so no matter what summer tyres you are on (from a good brand), the differences are negligible.

Funnily enough I was reading that very thread before you linked it, I would hardly call it a glowing review in cold weather...

I still haven’t heard a logical argument against winter tyres.

I strongly suspect that location is a factor in whether summer tyres are “OK” in winter.  Much of my driving is rural and often far more North than where I live.  If you are further South with typically warmer weather, or nearer a large population where more of the roads are gritted and cleared then your need for winter tyres is reduced.  It doesn’t mean that winter tyres are not more effective.

[Sootchucker]

Summer tyres don't work in freezing temperatures with snow and ice? I'm, shocked!

I must admit when I saw the title I thought "bet it's running summer tyres"

30k+ car and people risk it  by using summer tyres in snow. Mind blowing and a danger to other road users.

A danger to other road users eh ! What an arrogant prick !

[Guzzle]

You can always rely on a winter tyres thread to divide opinion.

I think they're great, certainly better in colder temperatures than any summer tyre i've tried. However, you should be driving to the conditions whichever tyre you're on. Having winter tyres fitted doesn't mean you should just drive as normal, they just give you a greater margin of safety.

I've noticed though, towards the end of their life the lower tread depth does mean the performance on snow and ice does drop off noticeably. Still quite a bit of tread left before they're close to being illegal, but just not as sharp or responsive as they were for the first couple of winters.

[Watts]

I strongly suspect that location is a factor in whether summer tyres are “OK” in winter.  Much of my driving is rural and often far more North than where I live.  If you are further South with typically warmer weather, or nearer a large population where more of the roads are gritted and cleared then your need for winter tyres is reduced.  It doesn’t mean that winter tyres are not more effective.

This sounds right to me and is likely why opinion is divided, local factors.

I've never used winter tyres but have considered them the last couple of years. I haven't for two reasons, I have never had that loose bottom moment that would encourage me and I really haven't anywhere to store a spare set.

Last March I went away for a rather pleasent weekend to stay with friends at their caravan in Weymouth. It was cold but it was only after we set off that it started to snow. We got there fine and had a great afternoon in the pub which not only had my favourite beer (Timothy Taylors if anyone is remotely interested) but also served me up with a plateful of gluten free fish and chips. Now either of those is pretty tricky for me to get these days but to get both was amazing Anyway, next morning when I looked out the heavens had really opened up overnight and there was a good six inches of snow! Thing was, my car was parked at the top of a short but very steep slope where at the bottom I needed to do a tight 90 degree turn failing which was another similar slope only down hill where the opposite neighbour's shiny Range Rover was parked! There was a degree of 'nipping' going on but we got out absolutely fine, around the local roads and on to the gritted main roads no problem at all. I would've felt more confident with winter tyres but my PS4Ss were great. Had there been any rain fall prior to the snow that had frozen it may have had a different ending however I'm not so sure winters would've necessarily helped if that'd been the case.

[fredgroves]

Its not about snow or ice though is it?

Its about the chemical reaction grip the tyre gets with the actual road surface at lower temperatures.

Winter tyres aren't nobblies or studded.... they are just made from a different rubber compound with a lower reactive temperature.

If the road surface is covered in ice or packed snow, the only thing that will made a difference is an offroad or studded tyre.

[Daz Auto]

You can always rely on a winter tyres thread to divide opinion.

Yep, untwist your panties people! Respect other peoples' circumstances and opinions.

On my way home late last nigh it was -3C. Tescos car park was like a skating rink. I was walking like a penguin. Car was fine on the ice. Winter tyres do work on ice

I absolutely hated driving my car in these conditions last year, without winter tyres. It was sliding all over the place on PS4 tyres.

Knowing just how good winter tyres are - I would never want my wife to be without them on her car no matter how mild the winter is.