Author Topic: "Front assist" emergency braking  (Read 23492 times)

Offline Ap69

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Re: "Front assist" emergency braking
« Reply #30 on: 09 February 2014, 13:40 »
I thought front assist only actually braked the car between speeds of 3 and 19mph?

I've only ever had it come on, beep and show the rather alarming red chevron graphic in the MFD, but never actually brake for me!

This is my experience as well. I've never felt the car brake for me although the red flashy symbol has appeared a few times

Not sure of the speed Craig on the first example but well over 19 probably somewhere 40ish i knew the van was turning left and be out of the way in a couple of seconds the puter just sees an obstacle and bang on they went for half second locking the fronts, only half a second as the van was gone then. Maybe mines too sensitive, just normal driving like everyone else you see I'm not a boy racer or tailgater, problem solved for now it's turned off.
 
« Last Edit: 09 February 2014, 15:15 by Ap69 »
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Offline CraigW

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Re: "Front assist" emergency braking
« Reply #31 on: 09 February 2014, 13:50 »
I thought front assist only actually braked the car between speeds of 3 and 19mph?

I've only ever had it come on, beep and show the rather alarming red chevron graphic in the MFD, but never actually brake for me!

This is my experience as well. I've never felt the car brake for me although the red flashy symbol has appeared a few times

Not sure of the speed Craig on the first example but well over 19 probably somewhere 40ish i knew the van was turning left and be out of the way in a couple of seconds the puter just sees an obstacle and bang on they went for half second locking the fronts, only half a second as the van was gone then. Maybe fines too sensitive, just normal driving like everyone else you see I'm not a boy racer or tailgater, problem solved for now it's turned off.

I've had a couple of minor occasions where the car in front of me has braked sharply without me realising initially and I would have maybe expected the front assist to kick in and nothing has happened.  So I'm not sure I entirely trust the system to work when required.

Ps I see your car is famous on the r forum  :grin:

http://rforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=4207&sid=fea3b424f9ac6a06ce8f772849f6b888
« Last Edit: 09 February 2014, 13:53 by CraigW »

Handyjazz

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Re: "Front assist" emergency braking
« Reply #32 on: 09 February 2014, 14:49 »
Euro NCAP offer an interesting assessment of the system on their website:
http://www.euroncap.com/rewards/vw_front_assist.aspx

There is also a video testing the VW system here:
http://www.euroncap.com/player_Mediacenter.aspx?nk=e47304cd-36ac-4d99-8dd8-09df5c67953d

Under the section "What are the limitations?", it appears to suggest that the braking force is increased from 3.5m/s^2 to 6m/s^2 if a front mono-camera is fitted in conjunction with the radar. I wasn't aware the Golf had a standard fit front camera, I thought it was only added if you specified the High Beam Assist.

Offline Ap69

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Re: "Front assist" emergency braking
« Reply #33 on: 09 February 2014, 15:23 »
 
I've had a couple of minor occasions where the car in front of me has braked sharply without me realising initially and I would have maybe expected the front assist to kick in and nothing has happened.  So I'm not sure I entirely trust the system to work when required.

Ps I see your car is famous on the r forum  :grin:

http://rforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=4207&sid=fea3b424f9ac6a06ce8f772849f6b888
[/quote]

Thanks Craig I might put it back on and just drive further back!

O yes she's famous!

That you on YouTube (think I might have asked you before) white driving though a town?
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Offline CraigW

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Re: "Front assist" emergency braking
« Reply #34 on: 09 February 2014, 15:37 »
 
I've had a couple of minor occasions where the car in front of me has braked sharply without me realising initially and I would have maybe expected the front assist to kick in and nothing has happened.  So I'm not sure I entirely trust the system to work when required.

Ps I see your car is famous on the r forum  :grin:

http://rforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=4207&sid=fea3b424f9ac6a06ce8f772849f6b888

Thanks Craig I might put it back on and just drive further back!

O yes she's famous!

That you on YouTube (think I might have asked you before) white driving though a town?
[/quote]

Yeah that's me pal :smiley:

Offline Ap69

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Re: "Front assist" emergency braking
« Reply #35 on: 10 February 2014, 19:28 »
Re enabled today and it's not 'gone off' despite in 50miles situation that would have triggered it before. A reboot seems to have done it!
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Offline bobpants123

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Re: "Front assist" emergency braking
« Reply #36 on: 10 February 2014, 20:58 »
Comment's noted guy's. What if you buy an ex-demo for example, (like me), and the front assist is turned off? I didn't even know you could turn it off before reading this thread! Seems to me that Insurance Co would have a hard time proving you'd turned it off knowingly?
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Offline karlak

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Re: "Front assist" emergency braking
« Reply #37 on: 10 February 2014, 21:05 »
Can anyone find a case where insurance didn't pay out because someone had switched off a "user configurable" "safety" aid?

Such as ESP?  Don't most car driver manuals suggest ESP is switched off for certain instances, such as getting out of deep snow.  What if you did this and then had a prang.  " The manual told me to do it.... "

I would think anything that the driver can legitimately turn off, can not be then used against the driver after an event.

I stand to be corrected and appreciate most insurance companies are sharks who will look for any reason to not payout, but I really don't see these instances standing up if it came to a disagreement.  Most reasons they would use against the driver as far as car safety is concerned would be covered by an MOT type test, tyres, brakes, steering etc etc.
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Offline dippy_x

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Re: "Front assist" emergency braking
« Reply #38 on: 11 February 2014, 07:05 »
As mentioned by a couple of guys, until something like this is challenged in court and a precedence is set there is no definitive answer.  The big difference I see with the front assist system is that it does give an insurance discount.  Therefore the insurers are acknowledging its existence and the help it can provide and then calculating your [reduced] premium based on this.  Does having ESP on your car affect your insurance premium?  If not then I would imagine they wouldn't care if it was on or off...
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Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: "Front assist" emergency braking
« Reply #39 on: 11 February 2014, 09:40 »
As mentioned by a couple of guys, until something like this is challenged in court and a precedence is set there is no definitive answer.  The big difference I see with the front assist system is that it does give an insurance discount.  Therefore the insurers are acknowledging its existence and the help it can provide and then calculating your [reduced] premium based on this.  Does having ESP on your car affect your insurance premium?  If not then I would imagine they wouldn't care if it was on or off...

As previously stated, unless your insurance has a clause in it specifically telling you that to switch off a safety aid which may have prevented a collision would void your insurance, an insurance company wouldn’t have a cat in hells chance of wriggling out of a payout on the non-use of a user selectable device. Even with inclusion of such a clause, they’d have to clearly define what is considered a driver safety device as it could be argued that the sensor is a cruise control system assist device to maintain a distance rather than purely to brake/alert. At that point you may end up in court to decide whether the clause was fair and enforceable if you had a smash and the insurance company used non-activation of the front assist system (and no other reason) as a reason not to pay out.

These systems aren’t infallible, they are an aid to recognising a dangerous situation, not a guarantee to prevent it happening (or even a guarantee that they will recognise a situation in every occurrence). There are times when I cover the brake and allow my car to get a bit closer to the car in front, knowing that the gap will open up again and the times the system does not seem to recognise the car in front by displaying the “!(car symbol)!” warning when I am close to the car in front leads me to think that I cannot rely on it. I have it on in the hope that if I ever missed a situation myself that it might alert me, but I wouldn’t bank on it.

Absolutely no chance with the current tech, under current law that an insurance company would be able to nail you to the wall for switching off your front assist and not be accountable for reneging on your cover.

Fitment of this system on the GTD has not reduced the grouping risk compared to the MK6, so the argument for “fitment has reduced premiums” does not stack up for the GTD. Insurance is all about risk – they will base their premiums partially on the risk that X% of drivers will fully use this aid and may benefit from it but currently cannot insist upon its activation at all times. What’s the insurance grouping difference between a Demo GTI without the sensor and a proper retail/full spec version? I’d bet it isn’t 5 groups, bet it isn’t even 2 groups. Chances are, they’ll be the same group.
« Last Edit: 11 February 2014, 09:43 by monkeyhanger »
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