Author Topic: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..  (Read 98377 times)

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #30 on: 15 November 2013, 11:56 »
Maybe I’m overthinking this (being highly cautious before I jump in to anything), but when you see car makers with twin-scroll turbo diesel, are they using the exact same injectors and fuel pumps which are uprated to cope with extra pressure etc? I’m thinking 3.0TDI single turbo vs Bi-turbo, as seen on the Audi A6, and BMW 120d vs 125d.

Does anyone know if there are engineering differences to cope with the possible extra fuel system pressure for bi-turbo over the single turbo variants to pump more fuel in. I do wonder about the extra pressure that these tuning boxes apply and the potential effects it may have longer term on injector and fuel pump operation. If the Bi-turbo variants use the same fuel pump and injectors at a higher pressure rather than bigger injectors at same pressure as the single turbo systems then I would be confident we have nothing to worry about.

The difference between the 140CR and 170CR engines seen commonly on the MK6 Golf and Scirocco was seen in both injector set and turbo, as well as a few subtle difference with the cylinder head. I’d assume from the injection and turbo differences that VAG does scale up the fuelling system to get more fuel in by bigger injectors capable of spraying more per cycle at an unchanged fuel pressure rather than just ramping up the fuelling pressure.

How close to arbitrary upper pressure limits do tuning boxes which report 30% increase in output take the car’s fuelling system (assuming that these “safety” limits are known to anyone outside the VAG network)?

I know we have VW’s warranty to fall back on if something should go pop and we remove the traceless box before sending it back to VW, but I do wonder whether I’d be passing on a future ticking timebomb at part-ex time. I must admit that I can’t find many examples on the net where people have had a box and had their injectors, fuel pump or turbo knack and have had a tuning box fitted, not knowing whether they would’ve failed anyway (but there were a few). There do seem massively more people who are happy with their boxed car than who regret the decision later, which makes me think the injection systems are pretty robust (although looking into 30-50k of a car’s life that the box owner has the car for rather than the whole 150-250k miles of the car’s lifecycle might be a little short sighted).
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #31 on: 18 November 2013, 13:44 »
How traceless are the boxes for VAG cars? It has been assumed that these boxes are untraceable. However,  I have read that  Vauxhall can detect the addition of a box and invalidate your warranty (and this has apparently happened to someone according to a thread at Briskoda). Do Vauxhall have a more sophisticated sensory feedback that provides a return feed to the ECU? Can anyone confirm that VAG cars currently do not? Can anyone confirm recommended clutch limits for manual GTDs and GTIs (current 6 speed wet clutch DSG is designed for 450Nm).

I think most would want both these questions answering before considering a box.

I’m still undecided whether to jump back in with a box, with these questions left unanswered.
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.

Offline Andrew@DTUK

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #32 on: 19 November 2013, 17:00 »
How traceless are the boxes for VAG cars? It has been assumed that these boxes are untraceable. However,  I have read that  Vauxhall can detect the addition of a box and invalidate your warranty (and this has apparently happened to someone according to a thread at Briskoda). Do Vauxhall have a more sophisticated sensory feedback that provides a return feed to the ECU? Can anyone confirm that VAG cars currently do not? Can anyone confirm recommended clutch limits for manual GTDs and GTIs (current 6 speed wet clutch DSG is designed for 450Nm).

I think most would want both these questions answering before considering a box.

I’m still undecided whether to jump back in with a box, with these questions left unanswered.

from my own personal experience with our skoda, I'm confident to say that as long as no fault codes are recorded there are no signs left behind once the box has been removed.

I have a good friend that works within the VAG group and has access to dealer level diagnostics, the only way he could tell that a box had been fitted was if the box was removed before the ecu powered down, thus giving a low common rail pressure fault code.

At the end of the day if youre going to tune your car you've got to accept an element of risk and responsbility.Ive ran several tuned Audi's over the last 2 years, all returned back to Audi without any issues. And lets be honest, who's not going to look suspiciously at ourselves with a name like Diesel Tuning UK.

Regarding torque limits, the VAG gearboxes are no different than any other box. If the DSG box is rated to 450nm and a tuned car produces above that figure, then you have to take into consideration that the extra torque is only going to be used for a split second or two. Im sure if a car was ran at a constant speed in a non stop manner, then you may see an issue. But who ever actually drives their car in that way?
I
Are you looking to tune your Golf GTI or GTD? Were currently offering members £80 off the full RRP on all DTUK Petrol and Diesel Tuning Systems.

PM me for the discount code

Offline Darlo

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #33 on: 19 November 2013, 21:57 »
Reading this with interest, now i know this thread is specific to the GTD engine but do you have any time frame as to when you will have tested one on a GTI?

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #34 on: 20 November 2013, 08:29 »
Still feeling a little underwhelmed with my GTD’s pull in the upper gears, but winter is coming, so accessing extra power in slippery roads probably isn’t going to happen much. There are some big money risk implications with upping the power and torque, especially on a new car – dual mass flywheels, clutches, injectors, turbos etc, they might fail on their own anyway and at only 1800 miles in I don’t think my car is “proven” yet in the mechanical reliability stakes. Not knowing the torque limits of the manual set-up is a worry also. Common sense tells me it will be a bit more resilient than the DSG set-up (being less complex), but there seems to be no published design limit for the manual box.

Need to make my mind up with the car insurance whether I’m going to fit one this year or not as my renewal is due on Saturday and my choice of insurer is dependent upon whether I would fit a box or not.
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.

Offline Andrew@DTUK

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #35 on: 20 November 2013, 10:08 »
Reading this with interest, now i know this thread is specific to the GTD engine but do you have any time frame as to when you will have tested one on a GTI?

The GTI kit is actually in the hands of a highly regarding VAG tuner who were working with, were hopefully going to see some results from this within the next couple of weeks
Are you looking to tune your Golf GTI or GTD? Were currently offering members £80 off the full RRP on all DTUK Petrol and Diesel Tuning Systems.

PM me for the discount code

Offline Andrew@DTUK

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #36 on: 20 November 2013, 10:09 »
Still feeling a little underwhelmed with my GTD’s pull in the upper gears, but winter is coming, so accessing extra power in slippery roads probably isn’t going to happen much. There are some big money risk implications with upping the power and torque, especially on a new car – dual mass flywheels, clutches, injectors, turbos etc, they might fail on their own anyway and at only 1800 miles in I don’t think my car is “proven” yet in the mechanical reliability stakes. Not knowing the torque limits of the manual set-up is a worry also. Common sense tells me it will be a bit more resilient than the DSG set-up (being less complex), but there seems to be no published design limit for the manual box.

Need to make my mind up with the car insurance whether I’m going to fit one this year or not as my renewal is due on Saturday and my choice of insurer is dependent upon whether I would fit a box or not.

if youre already worrying about youre car being "unproven", then my advice is leave the car in its standard form.

« Last Edit: 20 November 2013, 10:10 by Andrew@DTUK »
Are you looking to tune your Golf GTI or GTD? Were currently offering members £80 off the full RRP on all DTUK Petrol and Diesel Tuning Systems.

PM me for the discount code

Offline broomthundle

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #37 on: 23 November 2013, 00:20 »
This sounds like a really good option for the GTD. How would I go about getting the £359 deal you mentioned earlier in the post ?
Ordered 9 Sep 13 - GTD 5 dr Manual, Tornado Red. Luckily Offered and accepted a cancellation, delivery est 2.12.13.

Offline Andrew@DTUK

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #38 on: 25 November 2013, 10:27 »
This sounds like a really good option for the GTD. How would I go about getting the £359 deal you mentioned earlier in the post ?


You have a pm :)

if you follow this link

http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/systems_available.php?id=4128


that will take you to the CRD-T for the GTD, simply add the discount code GTD80 and the discounts will apply.

cheers


Andrew
« Last Edit: 25 November 2013, 11:47 by Andrew@DTUK »
Are you looking to tune your Golf GTI or GTD? Were currently offering members £80 off the full RRP on all DTUK Petrol and Diesel Tuning Systems.

PM me for the discount code

Offline broomthundle

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #39 on: 16 December 2013, 16:58 »
So, I fitted the CRDT-2, which took 5 mins. Tried setting 1 through 4, and once I got up to 4 the difference the performance is huge - especially in the higher gears 4-6. Very impressive peice of kit - certainly put a smile on my face. Havent tried it on a longer run yet, so cant comment on adverse fuel economy effect yet, but will report on that when i have.
Ordered 9 Sep 13 - GTD 5 dr Manual, Tornado Red. Luckily Offered and accepted a cancellation, delivery est 2.12.13.