Author Topic: "Houston we have a problem"  (Read 41038 times)

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: "Houston we have a problem"
« Reply #70 on: 26 June 2013, 11:30 »
Just baffles my why a private buyer who does average mileage a year would choose it over the GTI given the initial purchase price and resultant relative loss in depreciation.

It's not a matter of a couple of hundred quid between the GTI and GTD, it's £3k over 3 years or 20% of the 3 year cost of ownership to do 99% of what a GTI can do on a public highway without risking the wrath of the bobbies. For those that dote on their cars the GTI might be money well spent.

Everytime I buy another VW I stretch what I am prepared to pay for car ownership (they have done the sensible thing with the MK7 by not increasing the prices significantly again - they were almost in Audi territory).

It's great to have a nice car, but not to the detriment of having enough money to do the other things I enjoy doing besides driving. GTI ownership would cost me as much as my mortgage and I can get nigh on the same everyday experience in a GTD for a grand a year less. It is purely head over heart. I have the money to run a GTI but would get more enjoyment spending the difference elsewhere than for the marginal gains.

My neighbour has a Scirocco R. He has a great car, and no life. It rapes his wallet on a monthly basis,  costs him about £200 a month more than mine costs me (fuel economy half of what mine is, insurance and shocking depreciation as they're barely worth more than the standard 2.0TSI/210ps GT on the used market) and he earns less. He's always too skint to go down the pub or on holiday, but he seems happy enough with the situation he has put himself in. You've got to decide what's important to you with the money you've got. My car isn't my world, but I do enjoy having one I consider to be very good.

The GTI badge means a lot less than it used to. It's not the best/fastest Golf VW do, it's not even that fast against it's competition (when you are splitting hairs about 0.whatever of a second). it's a trim level (and a high one at that). It's so refined now that it isn't that thrilling a ride, it is very clinical and safe unless you are able to put it through it's paces at a track (I wouldn't be pushing any car of mine to it's limits on a track - have you seen the price of 18" tyres?  :tongue:).

I liken it to rollercoasters. Those well built and shiny ones at Alton towers aren't nearly as scary as those rickety old and badley maintained ones you see at dilapidated seaside towns that go 1/2 as fast.

Pick a GTD with your head, pick a GTI if badge kudos and moderately greater power/dislike of Diesel are more important to you. The performance penalty on a GTD is very small in everyday use, for me the GTD gives more bang for my buck. Not everyone buying a GTD is wishing they had a GTI.

I'm sure almost everyone will be pleased with whatever they pick, it is the undecided that have the most to lose - I think most here have ordered the car they want (for a variety of reasons) and if VW did mmore to deliver them then they'd spend less time wondering (should I add ACC, should I change colour etc). Once you're behind the wheel hopefully you'll be happy enough with what you ended up with (apart from that windscreen wiper smear pissing you off no matter what MK7 Golf model you are in).

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Offline matchboy

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Re: "Houston we have a problem"
« Reply #71 on: 26 June 2013, 11:46 »
It's not a matter of a couple of hundred quid between the GTI and GTD, it's £3k over 3 years or 20% of the 3 year cost of ownership to do 99% of what a GTI can do on a public highway without risking the wrath of the bobbies.

Both my speeding tickets from years ago were done in a mk4 GTI ie. i could run faster - my point being its irrelevant what car you are driving, you can still exceed the speed limit and get caught.

All your comments regarding money are fair do's - I totally agree that you shouldn't overstretch yourself to the detriment of the rest of your life - having a nice car but not being able to run it/do other things is pointless.

What I don't agree with is the above - the GTD cannot do 99% of what a GTI can do - that is simply not true!!  :smiley:
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: "Houston we have a problem"
« Reply #72 on: 26 June 2013, 11:59 »
Fine words monkeyhanger, but it's £3k over 3 years on top of several thousand a year in depreciation...  Yes I appreciate that we all have budgets and limits, and we all buy our cars for different reasons.  Me buying a GTI isn't about badge kudos at all.  It's precisely because it's refined and clinical.  I prefer driving petrols vs diesels, and prefer the looks of the GTI over the GTD, as subtle as they might be!

Personally, if finances were a key concern I'd be waiting 6 months to a year, and buying a used car, sacrificing choice of spec maybe, but saving a bunch of money.  That changes everything, but yes, if you want a new car, this is the price of entry!

A mate of mine got a speeding ticket in a Fiat Panda...what does that have to do with anything?!  The GTD is no slouch, and will attract just as much attention as it basically looks like a GTI from a distance.

I do agree that I'm sure we'll all be happy with whatever we have chosen! :)
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Offline Bill_the_Bear

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Re: "Houston we have a problem"
« Reply #73 on: 26 June 2013, 12:04 »
Aww, I really hope we're not gonna have a them and us diesel and petrol thing!  I really like the way on this forum the GTI and GTD fans support each other.

Anyway, I don't think MH was suggesting you are more or less likely to get a ticket in a faster car.  I think he was just pointing out that if you restrict your speeds to the limits of the road, then the difference between the GTD and GTI is similarly reduced.  Its a fair point, though I doubt anyone thinks its a point worth considering when they buy the car.  At least not anyone who is considering a GTI or GTD!

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: "Houston we have a problem"
« Reply #74 on: 26 June 2013, 12:22 »
Aww, I really hope we're not gonna have a them and us diesel and petrol thing!  I really like the way on this forum the GTI and GTD fans support each other.

Anyway, I don't think MH was suggesting you are more or less likely to get a ticket in a faster car.  I think he was just pointing out that if you restrict your speeds to the limits of the road, then the difference between the GTD and GTI is similarly reduced.  Its a fair point, though I doubt anyone thinks its a point worth considering when they buy the car.  At least not anyone who is considering a GTI or GTD!

Bill you got my point exactly as I intended it.

On the roads and not on the track the performance differences are negligible.

Either way i'll have to watch myself for the forseeable - I sent back an NIP to identify myself as the driver for a speeding offence just last week (what will be my first ever points!   :whistle:).

Unless I had a massive pay increase or the economy gap narrowed (ACT 2.0TSI? I'd consider a 55mpg GTI) or the fuel price gap opened right up (never going to happen whilst goods vehicles and cars have access to the exact same diesel) I probably wouldn't switch from a high performance Diesel - they're so good these days.

How I spend my money (without regret) makes perfect sense to me and VW nearly new prices are exactly why I buy new. 6 month old GTI? It'll be for sale at a higher pricepoint than I could negotiate a new one for. Buying nearly new on a Golf rarely makes sense with dealership used prices. If I didn't like VWs so much i'd probably be buying a 2 year old 320d coupe. You can't beat the feeling of a new car, knowing that no-one else has pissed about with it (except maybe the dockside worker that unloaded it!).
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Offline mcmaddy

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Re: "Houston we have a problem"
« Reply #75 on: 26 June 2013, 12:26 »
Unfortunately Bill it has already become a them and us argument not just on this forum but others aswell. Monkeyhangers comments are 100% spot on. The GTD will do 99% of what the GTI does no matter what the GTI boys like to think. VW have made it that way in that the only real difference is the engine and thats what probably annoys the die hard gti fans. Its a car at the end of the day so does it really matter?
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Offline GolfTi

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Re: "Houston we have a problem"
« Reply #76 on: 26 June 2013, 12:32 »
Think I'll call my dealer, I need to change my order to a GTD.










 :grin:
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Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: "Houston we have a problem"
« Reply #77 on: 26 June 2013, 12:38 »
Them and us, it happens. Give it a year and there'll be some prospective new "R" owners (once it's announced) dissing the GTI and telling us that the R is the only true hot hatch Golf. Seen it all before in the Scirocco forums. Things will settle down when everyone has their cars and are happy with them.


I think the people with the most regret in getting a GTD over a GTI are the ones forced into it by company car rules or tax implications (what are you moaning about? I had to buy mine!  :tongue: :laugh:).
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Offline matchboy

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Re: "Houston we have a problem"
« Reply #78 on: 26 June 2013, 12:39 »
Unfortunately Bill it has already become a them and us argument not just on this forum but others aswell. Monkeyhangers comments are 100% spot on. The GTD will do 99% of what the GTI does no matter what the GTI boys like to think. VW have made it that way in that the only real difference is the engine and thats what probably annoys the die hard gti fans. Its a car at the end of the day so does it really matter?

I'm certainly not annoyed by how good they've made the GTD.  And I certainly aren't advocating a petrol vs diesel debate as its been done before to death.  You like what you like, and you buy what you buy.  But statements like the GTD does 99% of what the GTI does smacks of GTD buyers trying to make that car something its not - ie. a GTI.  That's a fact I'm afraid.

But its all good, everyone has their own reasons for buying different cars and that's what makes the world go round.  :smiley:
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Offline JoeGTI

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Re: "Houston we have a problem"
« Reply #79 on: 26 June 2013, 12:43 »
I've owned both. A MK5 GTI and a MK6 GTD.

The GTD is a very very good car, I've been very happy with it. But I miss my old mk5 GTI! The GTD just doesn't have the same fizz about it, as hard as it is to fault. For instance, i hated the diesel clatter out of it on the cold mornings, a small thing, but irritating to me and a loud reminder I was in a diesel! So,  I'm going back to petrol and a GTI with the MK7.

The 2 cars are not "99% the same", nowhere near it. Just IMO.
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