Any anti-theists in the house?

[R32UK]

I don't believe any religion promotes hate, violence and murder against other religions.

I don't want to come across as rude, but it seems to be the case, that you have either wrongly worded this statement or you are unaware of religious war crimes that have been committed over the last 1000 years.
 
From the 'first crusade' some 1000 years ago by the Roman Catholics to eradicate the Muslim settlers by way of mass genocide and regain the supposed holy land of Jerusalem to the 'second crusade' some 50 years later, also committed by the Roman Catholics, principally Pope Eugene III.....(luckily second time round the Turks defended their settlement and the planned mass atrocities did not come to fruition.)

In today's world we have the raging war between extreme Christians and Muslims, that is currently wiping out hundreds and thousands of lives in the middle east and please let's not forget also that George Bush Snr and Jnr are both Episcopalian Catholics and Tony Blair is a Roman Catholic, these three men are mostly to blame for leading us to war against the Islamic extremist, but fundamentally the Muslim community abroad, by declaring it a 'war on terror' in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I'm not even going to go into the Israel/Palestine divide.......

Please don't let my statements incinuate that religion is incapable of 'doing good', of course it does.

I think you may have missed my point a little/I may not have explained it clearly. All of the conflicts you speak of above are started/caused by man.

No religion states that you have to wipe out another religion for you to live happily forever after... these are just people who interpret the same text with shaded specs. They take something to mean what they would like it to mean rather that what it actually means.

A simple example would be Jesus turning water into wine. However this is interpreted in many many different ways...

Jesus drank wine, so I will drink 3 bottles a night
Water is no good  for you
Jesus had a group of alcoholic followers


.... and so on. The message means whatever you what it to mean was my original point.

[MS1COYS]

I think for once i am really enjoying your posts MS1COYS

That's the nicest compliment I've had today mate. 

I don't believe any religion promotes hate, violence and murder against other religions.

I don't want to come across as rude, but it seems to be the case, that you have either wrongly worded this statement or you are unaware of religious war crimes that have been committed over the last 1000 years.
 
From the 'first crusade' some 1000 years ago by the Roman Catholics to eradicate the Muslim settlers by way of mass genocide and regain the supposed holy land of Jerusalem to the 'second crusade' some 50 years later, also committed by the Roman Catholics, principally Pope Eugene III.....(luckily second time round the Turks defended their settlement and the planned mass atrocities did not come to fruition.)

In today's world we have the raging war between extreme Christians and Muslims, that is currently wiping out hundreds and thousands of lives in the middle east and please let's not forget also that George Bush Snr and Jnr are both Episcopalian Catholics and Tony Blair is a Roman Catholic, these three men are mostly to blame for leading us to war against the Islamic extremist, but fundamentally the Muslim community abroad, by declaring it a 'war on terror' in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I'm not even going to go into the Israel/Palestine divide.......

Please don't let my statements incinuate that religion is incapable of 'doing good', of course it does.

I think you may have missed my point a little/I may not have explained it clearly. All of the conflicts you speak of above are started/caused by man.

No religion states that you have to wipe out another religion for you to live happily forever after... these are just people who interpret the same text with shaded specs. They take something to mean what they would like it to mean rather that what it actually means.

A simple example would be Jesus turning water into wine. However this is interpreted in many many different ways...

Jesus drank wine, so I will drink 3 bottles a night
Water is no good  for you
Jesus had a group of alcoholic followers


.... and so on. The message means whatever you what it to mean was my original point.

I agree. Whatever scripture certain religious folk follow, has generally been b astardised through years of 'Chinese whispers' and so only autonomous 'thinking' people can truly interpret the good in some of these religious scriptures, holy books, call them what you will.

And you know what they say. First rule of Chinese whispers club. Don't talk about tiny whiskers grub......

 

[R32UK]

spot on I would say 

[Gavv8]

Religion is nothing but a system of control that goes back to the dawn of civilisation, as soon as one human realised they could control another through fear of the unknown the complexity and diversity of the stories and legends required to perpetuate the 'control' grew and grew.
If anyone ever asks me about my views on religion i simply say that i think lord of the rings is a fantastic story but it doesn't make me want to worship Gandalf.

[MS1COYS]

No religion states that you have to wipe out another religion for you to live happily forever after... these are just people who interpret the same text with shaded specs. They take something to mean what they would like it to mean rather that what it actually means.

Just going back to your earlier point. I apologise for bringing it up again, but I didn't properly read your earlier post as I was having a sh!t!

In total there are at least at least 109 decipherable verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Here's just one excerpt from the Qu'ran.

(2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

The bible is somewhat more tolerant of other religions or maybe it's wording is just more subtle 
Here's an excerpt from Deuteronomy.

20:10-17 - “When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you. Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes”


Except for the part about sparing women and children, this sounds similar to another verse from the Qur’an,

17:16 - "And when We would destroy a township We send commandment to its folk who live at ease, and afterward they commit abomination therein, and so the Word (of doom) hath effect for it, and we annihilate it with complete annihilation."


So whilst I appreciate and we can agree that misintepretation is common in religious scripture, let's please not delude ourselves into believing that no religion calls for 'non-believers' not to be wiped out or eradicated. Sorry if I sound patronising, but this is quite a strong topic and can be very offensive to some people so it's best we all get our facts straight before posting.

 

[R32UK]

I think it would be hard to agrue against the fact that the bible was kind of re-written to suit.... well whoever was writing them at the time.

As for the quran... i think that there is a distinct line drawn between believers and non-believers. I would also argue that this creates a double standard in many cases. You certainly could say that there are not preachings of hate and violence towards others in the quran.

Some see them more as a fight against evil.... only its left to me to decide whom they class as evil.

Every religion will in someway tell you to stand up for your rights... some see that as an excuse to go out there and kick a$$

[Mitching]

Despite being an atheist myself, I often find atheists just as bad, if not worse than religious folk that preach.

I believe what I believe, and others believe what they believe.
At the end of the day we're all humans and we have to share this rock together, life's too short to be arguing about books that were written X amount of years ago.

[MS1COYS]

Despite being an atheist myself, I often find atheists just as bad, if not worse than religious folk that preach.

I believe what I believe, and others believe what they believe.
At the end of the day we're all humans and we have to share this rock together, life's too short to be arguing about books that were written X amount of years ago.

Well let's not argue about what we believe in is that what you're saying? How can you possibly say that Atheists are worse than Religious followers?

At least Atheists and Anti-Theists use evidence and scientific fact to back their position, something which mono-thiest's do not adhere too, they're faith is based purely on something superficial and archaic scripture.

Life is short and peaceful co-existence is essential, but change comes only from within, having a precept to adhere to is fine, but if the individual doesn't change then the position won't either. And you can't argue Religious scripture that endorses war and tyranny on other non-believers isn't something worth fighting for, if you genuinely believe that then I suggest you're not Atheist but Agnostic.

[MS1COYS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKkOSMaTk4