R32 as a Track Day car?

[Horney]

tech1990 and Diamond Hell you are definitely missing the point of my query, i completely understand where you are coming from as you both obviously have plenty experience in track days.

What i propose to do is buy a car, leave it in the garage for 95% of the year and take it for the odd track day every month or so. I dont want a competition car and i dont want something that is going to be modified to its limit.

What i would like is a fast, fun easily modified car. As i say i work 7 days a week so i'd have to take holiday to have a trackday never mind work on fitting turbo chargers or super chargers!

The origional thought about the R32 was the fact it can be stripped easily, an ARB, exhaust, set of coilovers etc... can be work done on nights.

Theres no way i'd buy something already modified to track standard as i dont know the cars history, i would never buy a modified car full stop! I modified my Golf from it being standard and thats what i'm now doing with the Lupo

A trackday equals about the same as one years normal motoring in wear a tear. Brake pads last about 4 trackdays, discs a bit longer, bearings take a beating as do ball joints. Use the kurbs a lot and it makes things worse. At Silverstone the other year I did about £300 worth of wear on the car in consumables excluding fuel and that's on a MKII 8v.

Take this wear and apply it to an R32 or something like that and the costs go up hugely. I understand where you are coming from but honestly a hatchback which uses cheap components is a much better prospect. Besides a hulking R32 won't be much fun on a track, it's too planted. Trackdays are about having fun not lap times. You want something involving to drive that you can make a little unruly at sensible speeds.

Nick

[smitty12]

tech1990 and Diamond Hell you are definitely missing the point of my query, i completely understand where you are coming from as you both obviously have plenty experience in track days.

What i propose to do is buy a car, leave it in the garage for 95% of the year and take it for the odd track day every month or so. I dont want a competition car and i dont want something that is going to be modified to its limit.

What i would like is a fast, fun easily modified car. As i say i work 7 days a week so i'd have to take holiday to have a trackday never mind work on fitting turbo chargers or super chargers!

The origional thought about the R32 was the fact it can be stripped easily, an ARB, exhaust, set of coilovers etc... can be work done on nights.

Theres no way i'd buy something already modified to track standard as i dont know the cars history, i would never buy a modified car full stop! I modified my Golf from it being standard and thats what i'm now doing with the Lupo

A trackday equals about the same as one years normal motoring in wear a tear. Brake pads last about 4 trackdays, discs a bit longer, bearings take a beating as do ball joints. Use the kurbs a lot and it makes things worse. At Silverstone the other year I did about £300 worth of wear on the car in consumables excluding fuel and that's on a MKII 8v.

Take this wear and apply it to an R32 or something like that and the costs go up hugely. I understand where you are coming from but honestly a hatchback which uses cheap components is a much better prospect. Besides a hulking R32 won't be much fun on a track, it's too planted. Trackdays are about having fun not lap times. You want something involving to drive that you can make a little unruly at sensible speeds.

Nick

Your beginning to talk me round but with an R32 the components obviously will be of higher quality than a MkII Golf's components so they should last a tad longer?

I've said for ages i wouldnt touch anything older than my Lupo (W reg) so you can try and educate me on MkII's / Mk3's!

[Horney]

It's nothing to do with quality, more size. The brake pads for instance are made of the same stuff, the R32 ones are just twice as expensive. When it comes to a trackday car you want fun and cheap to maintain. You're not racing so you're not looking for 10ths of a second of your laptime. What you want is something you can easily explore the limits with and that gives great feedback and makes you grin. This why stuff like caterhams, MX5's and Lotus Elises are loved by the trackday masses. They're light, handle well and most of the consumables are reasonably priced and easy for a DIYer to replace. An R32 is a heavy old think and will be brutal on wear and tear on brakes etc, not to mention huge full bills, horrid tyre costs and the expensive to service AWD setup.

Put it this way. My Golf cost me £500 and was already a track car, the semi slicks are about £100 a corner, front discs about £90 and pads about £100. An standard R32 runs 18s? You're looking at about £200 a tyre, discs and pads will b way more expensive and I bet my MKII would just as quick (although not in the wet admittedly) round most trackdays but a hell of a lot more fun.

Have a read of my build thread and see what you think: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=117210.0

Nick

[smitty12]

Have a read of my build thread and see what you think: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=117210.0

Nick

That honestly inspired me beyond belief!

What is the 0-62 time like on your golf? I'm seriously thinking about putting the money into the Lupo now, i've done so much work to the little car now and an exhaust, manifold, roll cage and some slicks would probably have it track ready! I might not be the fastest on the track but i love driving it, I think the 0-62 time is about 9 seconds now, that too slow?

[Diamond Hell]

You're missing the point if you're worrying about 0-60 times.

It's about having fun.  Get your Lupo set up right and it'll be flicky and drifty and huge fun.

Slower than an R32, but you'll be having masses of fun.  You may find if you have a few track tuition sessions you can put a lot dearer and more powerful machinery to shame.

Without wanting to sound too much like a broken record, if you're doing it properly and actually safely you can't just a cage, or buckets, or harnesses, you have to do all three, or not at all.

If you are considering tracking the Lupo, have a look for the project details for an Arosa from a guy who posts as Drive Forward.  He had a great little thing, full safety package, high quality coilovers, no engine work.

Barrel rolled it down Schwedenkreuz at about 110mph, pretty much walked away, although the whole car was scrap.

One of the nice things about the Golf2 as a track car is that it's lightish, with a longer wheelbase than a Lupo so it'll be more stable.  It's also dead simple, so less likely to throw a fit and ruin your day. 

As I think I posted in here already - any £6k car will probably need a significant amount of work done to even bring it to OEM quality - bushes etc will be shagged.

I really don't agree with the comment about the R32's parts being 'higher quality' than the Golf2.  The Golf2 is one of the most extensively modified cars out there and there are a huge number run in race series and just as toys.  This means there's a broad market of suppliers out there providing extremely high quality parts suitable for race and track day use.  Probably far more than what's available for the R32.  Because the Golf2 is so much lighter than the R32 it needs smaller, lighter parts, which all contribute to the overall lightweight and nimbleness of the car.  All the heft in the R32 is the reason for the scary consumable costs - much weight = more material needed on bearing surfaces, bushes - just everything.

In addition to Nick's build thread, have a look at my Syncro chasing around some heavier-weight fire-power:

http://youtu.be/GUdKsoUn198?t=3m31s

Oh and this would be me making the case for a Golf Syncro as a track car:

http://youtu.be/h7slmZVSMzM

It's a lot harder to get it wrong, when it's moist.

[smitty12]

I think the word "You're missing the point" relate to everyone in this thread! Everyone has missed the point at some stage 

I only questioned the 0-62 time as i would still like to have a little bit of competition on track as you were with the mk5 r32, i wouldnt just want to be over taken all day!

The Lupo is great fun and yes i would stick the full safety package in before actually going for a track day 

I've had a bit of track tuition as well as a bit of rosber gold instruction so that helps, i'd give one day a go then if i felt i needed it (which is more than likely) I'd go for a few extra tuition sessions 

And with the R32 quality against MK2 golf quality i was refering to standard parts, obviously both cars will have upgrader better quality parts this will be fit for track purpose 

[VeeDubGTI16v]

forget 0-60, 60-100 is much more relevant on a circuit smitty

basically the golden rule (as with pretty much every aspect of a good track car) is the lighter the car the less the consumables wear out. smooth driving massively helps too!

[DOA]

Wow, some seriously stupid suggestions here with only two actually sensible options presented. Dont go for an R32, its a poseurs car, not a track car!

For my money based on what you seem to want, a DC2 Integra, Renault clio 172 or if you can find one a Pug 306 Gti-6 are ideal culprits and would leave more than enough budget to take care of consumables and a ruddy good sorting out before you go to the track including new discs and pads all round, new bushings, ball joints/track rods and ends and shocks all round and a good look at the engines health. You can pick clios and pugs up for around a grand which leaves plenty of budget to get a trailer and completely refresh the car and maybe even get a cage, proper seats and harnesses in. As for the integra's, well you are talking a bit more money and realistically, you can expect similar performance on track so although a good option, not as cheap to do as say a clio.

The only other option is a westfield or caterham type car like this one http://www.uphillracers.com/showthread.php/westfield-se-sale-6081.html which is an absolute steal at the price its being sold at and very well sorted but I doubt you would take such an option due to your ridiculous prejudice against Ford running gear. However, it does leave a lot of room for you to play with as its very simple and easy to swap out the engine and running gear as you feel the need for more power (far cheaper than modifying and maintaining the current engine!) so you could move over to something more to your tastes. Its even got an MOT so you could use it on the road for blasts at the weekend......

One other option that I have been trying to resist buying as a road/sprint car recently is this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORSCHE-944-S2-FULL-SERVICE-HISTORY-TAXED-TESTED-LOVELY-CAR-/300648095411?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item460005deb3 which looks like a bargain although the running costs will be considerably higher than for a clio........ Theres also this too http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-944-S2-Track-Car-Road-Legal-/320869742547?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4ab553b7d3 . I really need to get rid of my liking of 944's  .

[Diamond Hell]

Wow, some seriously stupid suggestions here with only two actually sensible options presented.

Try adding 'in my opinion' to something somewhen.

No car anywhere in the whole of the Autotrader listings is a sensible option for a track car because there is no point to a track day.

It's just going round and round with no particular reward for anything and no competition either.  Technically any car can do that, so there are no stupid suggestions, only cheaper and more expensive suggestions.

[DOA]

Try adding 'in my opinion' to something somewhen.

Only if you promise to do the same  . We appear to have a different opinion here so it may be best to agree to disagree on our definition of sensible although I suspect thats not likely  . Perhaps I should have gone for an option from Racecarsdirect rather than the trader but at least I gave a genuine alternative in the westfield but his tastes seemed to suit the other options I presented. Hey ho, cant please everyone all the time eh, definately something you should be aware of by now  .