1992 Karmann Convertible GTI - Mk-1 Golf - Car specs & Questions...

[gibby]

Adi, I've moved this to the mk1 section now. I've got a good GTi book at home that gives various weights, dimensions etc, tell me what you want to know and I'll see what I can find out for you. In the meantime I'll look for the stock 0 - 60 times, but the full injection system is the same, as far as I know the hardtops were the k-jet system and mine is a '91 and is also a k-jet. 

[Dinky]

83GTI-DS,mines a mk1 1781cc 8v k-jet k-plate karmann,lovely to drive,bar wot Gib pointed out to u,oh n mines an import

Dinx

[83GTI-DS]

Thanks again for the details.

What I'm truly interested in knowing is the following (A normal MK-1 GTI  - let's say of the latest year - compared to a 1992 Cabrio):

1) I like Cabrios - they are beautiful... But what's the trade off as far as 0-60 and torque? For example, I know that the average MK-1 should weigh (I think) around 840 Kilograms - How much does an MK-1 Cabrio 1992 weigh? I read a post which explained why a Cabrio weighs more than its hardtop twin, but I was wondering if I could get the exact weight increase from an MK-1 Hardtop to an MK-1 Cabrio (1992), and also how does this affect its torque and its 0-60 times (in numbers, if possible)?

2) Is there also a tradeoff as far as driving quality - e.g. does a hardtop MK-1 GTI have extra anti-roll bars that the Cabrio doesn't?

3) What else is different between the two? Were there any components in the Cabrio that were "borrowed" from later version MK-2's - or is everything else completely similar to an MK-1?


By the way, I found the following paragraph from an article about VW GTIs, but since it speaks of the bodyshell weight, I really don't have any comparison to the old MK-1 GTI's bodyshell weight, which makes it impossible to find out how much of an increase there is in weight, but perhaps this will help.

Also, does this paragraph mean my 1992 Cabrio should have a Turbocharger? From what I understand - it shouldn't have one, as it's not a Gli - but I want to make sure. Here's the paragraph:

MKl Cabriolet '79-93

History/Spec

Karmann took the MKl bodyshell, strengthened it to increase its weight to 136 kg, and created the best convertible money could buy in 1979. Modifications were pretty much as with the hatchback Golf. The GLi had the 1588cc GTI engine and suspension, while the GLS had uprated trim -- but only a 70 bhp, 1457cc engine. In 1982, the 1.8 GTI engine was installed into the GLi, and the GLS got a 1595cc unit. For 1981, the dash was upgraded. Sports seats and a lockable glovebox became part of the specification by 1983. The GTI designation was finally adopted in 1985. In 1988, VW modernised the bodywork with rounded bumpers, integrated front spoiler, rear apron and more prominent wheelarches. Also, a 1.8 carburettor-fed Clipper replaced the old 1.6 GL. For 1990, a power hood was added to the spec. There have been plenty of special editions, from the 'All White' and 'All Black' in 1986. Sportline and Rivage, 1991-92, with BBS and Recaros, are the best.


You can read the full article here: http://www.geocities.com/veedub16v_2000/history/

Thanks again for all the help - please feel free to send any relevant links / information about this subject my way

Have a good one!

[83GTI-DS]

Another important question - I found another car that might be of interest to me, the owner didn't specify it was a GTI but then again the knowledge of such things here in Israel isn't too good.

The car is an imported Cabrio, with a 1.8 liter engine - Assuming the engine wasn't replaced, does this mean the engine is an 8V GTI engine, or could it be a non-GTI engine, with lesser performance & power output?

Thanks again for all your help!

[gibby]

Not all cabrios were GTI's, they made a non GTI called a clipper which just had a 1.8 carb engine, some of the earlier cabs were not GTI's either so there's a chance that it might not be a GTI. I'll try and get you some of the answers to the above questions later on today. 

[gibby]

Adi, I've looked in my book and there is a load of information in there, I've tried to answer a few of your questions and I dont know how hard it is to get hold of this in Israel, but this is the book I have http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1852239964/qid=1105634512/sr=1-16/ref=sr_1_0_16/202-3871085-4231830 It is a really good book and has loads of info on other VW's too, there's even a picture of a mk2 cabrio and even a corrado cabrio 

Some of the info you wanted - The cab was based on the floor pan of the mk1 golf but In order to do the mk1 cab Karmann gave the cab a roll bar and at the front an additional cross-beam behind the dashboard, also the suspension turrets were reinforced. The sills were strenghtened between the wheel arches and there was a box section cross-beam mounted behind the rear seats and a boxed boot structure.

0 - 60 times
mk1 GTi 1800 - 8.2 secs
mk1 GTi cab    - 9.8 secs

Weight (Unladen)
mk1 GTi 1800 - 840kg
mk1 GTi cab   -  940kg

Maximum torque
mk1 GTi 1800 - 109lb/ft @ 3500rpm
mk1 GTi cab    - 109lb/ft @ 3500rpm

Output - Both push out 112bhp at 5800rpm

Top speed
mk1 GTi 1800 - 114mph (183kph)
mk1 GTi cab   -  111mph (179kph)

The engines as a whole are exactly the same. Transmission is almost the same except the final drive and the suspension is exactly the same setup, so was the steering and by the way, no standard mk1s had turbo chargers.

The dimensions of the mk1 and the mk1 cab (until 1983) were exactly the same except the weight as shown above but the cabs from 83 - 93 were slightly longer, 150.8in as opposed to 150.2in.

This info has been taken from the book that I put a link to at the top of this thread, so if there are any disagreements by anyone then take it up with the writer  You all didn't think that I knew all this information off the top of my head did you 

I've think I've given as much info as you need but if you need anymore then ask and I'll see what my good book says. 

[83GTI-DS]

W W

Thanks for all the info - I think I have everything I need now ;-)

Have a good one Gibby, and thanks again for all your help!

I just might get that book off of Amazon - looks like a good item to have available

[gibby]

Not a problem, glad to help, hope the car works out for you and you get it. Keep us informed anyway. 

[carrie]

going by the chassis refernce on my golf. the golf cabrios were built in osnabruck not wolfsberg.
as for the quality of karmanns work i would say this was questionable, they certanly seem to not of always been good at their job, as bmw got karmann to build their e24 6 series csi, until they decided they were not building them to a good enough standard to have a bmw badge on them. so they took the work on themselves, early e24's were notorious for rusting and other problems as i am finding out with mine?

[Bronze MK1 Cab]

Wow, good skills Gibby, I'm impressed with your collection of all that data