Author Topic: So she's in with the Stealer...  (Read 8116 times)

Offline ub7rm

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Re: So she's in with the Stealer...
« Reply #30 on: 08 April 2009, 20:39 »
I've bought oil from two (different franchise) dealers and both told me I needed Synta Gold  :sad:
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Offline rskardon

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Re: So she's in with the Stealer...
« Reply #31 on: 09 April 2009, 13:01 »
Well i spoke to the dealer service manager at Drift Bridge today who credit to him actually did call me on the back of my email i sent to them. We had a discussion about the oil and he did agree that they were notified to use longlife but only in cars purchased 2008 onwards, i asked if the engine was different now and he said there had been some changes but i wasnt too convinced.

Anyway to cut a long story short he agreed to change the oil to longlife on Tuesday next week so happy days! and even better it is at no cost (thank god as i already spent 950 on it)

I'm happy with that result, one last question though, is it essential i get the oil filter changed or will that be fine given it will have had the sh!te oil in it less than a week?

Cheers for the advice on this TT, seems i got a reasonalbe outcome in the end,

R

Offline rskardon

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Re: So she's in with the Stealer...
« Reply #32 on: 09 April 2009, 18:06 »
So i checked my rear sprayer today and it does indeed squirt straight at the lamp, how do you adjust it, do you just use some grips and move it that way or is there a proper method?

Cheers,

R

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: So she's in with the Stealer...
« Reply #33 on: 10 April 2009, 08:16 »
Probably getting F**ked as per usual, its in at Drift Bridge in Surrey, they do a reasonable job, i'd probably use the local independant but i need to use main dealers whilst its on Finance still,

Oh well  :undecided:



Really?  I doubt it...maybe serviced in line with the OEM schedule but if you are able to have it serviced outwith the dealer network and keep the warranty on a new car I don't see why you HAVE to use the dealers for the finance either?

This specific case has nothing to do with the warranty.  If the car is on finance, and the finance company states that it must only be serviced at a VW garage, then you have to bite the bullet.  Because the car is on finance, it is the finance company who are the legal owner of the car, and they can makey any (reasonable) demands they see fit.  But if you owned the car outright (ie without any finance), then you, the owner can choose where to get it serviced.

I did read the bit where he said it was a finance issue.  My point was that if its illegal for car manufacturers to demand that their cars are serviced only by their dealers for the warranty to remain valid then the same competition laws apply to the manufacturers finance companies.  In any case I have finance through VW and although their is a requirement to service the car to the manufacturers schedule / standards it doesn't specify that it has to be VW  :smiley:

But you missed the cruical point.

I full agree with the warranty issue - but that generally applies to a private motorist, who would own the car outright.  But if the car is on finance, the driver isn't the legal owner, and MUST comply with the instructions provided by the finance company.  And if the finance company demand that the car is ONLY serviced at a genuine dub stealer - then tough - like it or lump it.  You would have had seven days to read over the small print - and if you didn't like, or couldn't agree to ALL the terms of the finance contract - then you should have handed the car back and cancelled the contract (as per your legal right).  A contract is completely separate to a warranty.

Just head over to Seat Cupra net and search for the chap who modded the fcuk out of his LCR - when the car broke down, it got towed to a dub stealer - and because the car was owned by Volkswagen UK Financial Services, they went ballistic.  He had to pay to put the car back to standard, the finance was immediately cancelled, and he had to hand back the car too.

Why must we argue so TT  :sad:

I didn't think we were 'arguing' - arn't we just having a 'constructive discussion'?  :wink:  Just because we seem to have slightly different POV, that really shouldn't mean we are arguing!  :smiley:  :smiley:

I think you missed my crucial point about anti competition law.  They simply cannot insist that a VW dealer does the work.  That would be illegal.  Just because its in a contract (and I don't think it is) doesn't make it legal anyway.

I fully understand the anti-competition laws - which is exactly why they removed the 'block exemption' the motor manufacturers used to enjoy re. servicing and warranties.  But when buying a car on finance, then anti-competition laws don't come into the issue - because there are more than one company, including VW FS and many, many others, which will provide finance to purchase a VW Golf.  If you don't like the terms implied in one specific finance contract, then look for other finance contracts which don't have that particular clause.  Just like peeps do with car insurance!

And finally, if you are really adamant that a specific clause in a contract is unfair, then you have a number of options, including taking formal legal advice.  But the absolute 'best option' would be to send the full contract, highlighting your specific gripes to:  "The Unfair Contracts Terms Unit" at the Office of Fair Trading in Whitehall - and yes, they do exist.  But if the UCTU at the OfT were to receive one of these kinds of complaints, I am absolutely adamant that they would allow a car finance company (who, lets not forget, are the legal owners of the car) to demand that the car is serviced at a genuine franchised dealership rather than an independent.  Afterall, the finance company have a 'morale' right to 'protect' the maximum possible value of their assets - and that could perfectly reasonably mean a genuine main dealer FSH.

You also missed the bit where I said I have VW finance and this is not a condition of it.  Regular maintenance yes, but not necesserily at a stealers.

Sorry, I didn't mean to talk of individual specific instances, including your own.  And I only used the "VW finance" purely as an example - so it seems that some wires have gotten crossed somewhere in this lengthy argument discussion!  :wink:  :smiley:

The case of the LCR was different.  The finance does state that you have a duty to maintain the car to the manufacturers specification and service schedule and not to take any action that will result in reducing the cars future value or saleability.  This is what the LCR tube failed to realise and was busted on.

Nope, he admitted the contract basically stated the car could not be altered from the manufactures original spec - ie 'modified' - and that was why VWFS threw their teddy out of the cot!
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: So she's in with the Stealer...
« Reply #34 on: 10 April 2009, 09:02 »
Finally, ALL Quantum oils are NOT authorised for 'workshop use' - Quantum oils are only supposed to be 'sold over the counter' for independents or home users.  All VAG franchised workshops must only use either Volkswagen genuine oils, or oils agreed from an official contract supplier, such as Castrol, Shell, Fuchs, etc.

Take it further.  Like I said, Quantum oils are NOT approved for VW (and Audi, Seat and Å koda) official franchised workshops.

Quantum oils generally are very good oils, and they are actually made by Castrol for Volkswagen UK.  But nip across to Germany, and I doubt you could buy Quantum - because it isn't listed in ETKA.  The part numbers are a dead-giveaway - Quantum oils have the prefix "ZGB" - and Z simply means "non-standard or non-OEM" part, and you can work out what GB means!  :tongue:

Oi! Damn local dealer gave me the Quantum stuff when I asked for a 1l bottle. Thought they'd have given me Castrol SLX like the dealers where I bought the car from. At least the local dealer used Castrol for the service (at least that's what it says on the invoice).

Why did they give me Quantum?

They probably gave you Quantum because it is much cheaper.  Unless you specifically asked for a litre of "Castrol LongLife 3", or a litre of "genine VW LongLife 3", then they can give you ANY LongLife 3 oil.

"GVW 052 195 M2" is the 1 lit genuine VW oil (in 'Volkswagen' logod pack - GAU and the rest for the Audi logo on the bottle) - this retails at £14.37 (plus the extra the One-Eyed Jock needs to support his cronies expenses for watching porn!), and trade is £7.90 +vat
"ZGB 00V 500 001" is the part no for 1 litre of genuine Castrol SLX Professional Powerflow LongLife 3, retail £10.46 +vat (though that is an old price)
and
"ZGB 115 QLB 005 00" is the 1lit pack of Quantum LongLife 3 - don't know the retail price (perhaps you can let us know), but the trade is £5.11+vat.

Sooooooo - you can see how they vary in price - they probably just wanted to give you the cheapest one.

Why not Castrol like my usual dealer?
If Castrol make Quantum, what's wrong with it? Why doesn't it meet the spec?

Ok, OK, OKKKKKK.  What do you know about car engine oils?  Especially their approvals?

Right, you may have heard of either the American "API" ratings (such as SL/CF), or the much better European "ACEA" performance and quality classifications (such as A3, B4).  With both the API and ACEA - an oil company can submit their oil 'brew' to absolutely ANY indpendent oil testing facility, and providing it passes the relevent tests, it will be awarded the relevent API or ACEA (or both) rating.  Some of the larger oil companies, particularly the Yankie ones, actually test the oils 'in-house' (read into that what you will, but it is just one of the many reasons why I never trust, nor recommend Yankie originated oils).  But because there are a number of 'competing' test houses, then naturally, price for these tests remains competative.

Now, onto 'manufacturer-specifc' tests, such as the VW oil standards (BMW, Mercedes-Benz, PSA {Peugeot sh!troen}, Ford of Europe, and General Motors Europe also have their own oil standards).  But with the VW oil standards (I'm not 100% sure on the other OEMs - so I ain't gonna stick my neck on the block  :tongue:), ONLY VW themselves can test and approve their own standards, and they are firkin expensive too.  Another issue with the VW standards is that it is ONLY applicable to one specific name on the bottle - so to take Castrol LL3 brews - at your VW stealer, it is called "Castrol SLX Professional Powerflow LongLife 3", yet the identical brew sold in retail outfits such as Halfrauds is called "Castrol EDGE 5w30".  Each of these requires a separate test and approval at VW.  So this might explain why not all Castrol oils are on the 'official' VWAG lists.

Just having a quick look at the November 2007 issue of the 504.00/507.00 approved oils from Volkswagen Germany, there are twelve Castrol brews - including, get your tounge around this one - "Castrol Longlife III Hochleistungsmotorenöl".  :tongue:

Should I go back, return it and demand ask for Castrol?

That is your call.  If you are just using it for top ups, then I personally wouldn't bother.  But if you were using it for oil changes, and wanted to keep a 'history' of using only Castrol oils, then yes.  But if you do get the dealer to change it, be prepared to open your wallet again.  :wink:

Is the Quantum safe for use as top-up or should I stay away from it completely?

It is perfectly safe to use, both as a top up and for complete oil changes.

Quantum is simply a manufacturer developed (Volkswagen UK in this instance) 'consumer brand' - just like say Ford use Motorcraft and British Leyland used to have Unipart.  The simple fact that VW UK officially sell it should reassure you that it isn't crap.  But as I said earlier, Quantum lubes should NOT be used in an official VW workshop (though peer through the MoT inspection window into the workshop of most, and you will no doubt see tins of Quantum White Grease spray, and the likes).  One of the reasons you pay a higher price at a genuine stealer is that they should ONLY use genuine parts, and that includes genuine oils.  If an individual comes to some prior agreement beforehand to use non-genuine parts, or Quantum lubes - then that isn't a problem.

I wonder whether I told them the car had been changed from LL to TD had any effect.

You'll never know - the mind of a stealer employee works in mysterious ways!  :wink:  :grin:  :grin:

There's a local VAG parts place that seems to flog Quantum - again, why?

Because Quantum is 'officially' supplied by Volkswagen UK, and like I said, Quantum oils are made by Castrol.  Indeed, if you need to fone up the Quantum Lubricants Technical Helpline, it goes staight through to the Castrol Techincal at Pipers Way in Swindon.
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: So she's in with the Stealer...
« Reply #35 on: 10 April 2009, 09:31 »
I've bought oil from two (different franchise) dealers and both told me I needed Synta Gold  :sad:

How long ago?  Because from the start of 2009, Synta Gold is obsolete, see scans below.

And by using Synta Gold, not only are you failing to use an FSI-specific oil, but your car will be making less power, and using more fuel too - compared to if it were using the correct spec LongLife 3 at 5w30, or the even more 'economical' LongLife 2 at 0w30.

Perhaps they are all trying to shift old stocks of obsolete oils!  I don't have a problem in general in them doing that, but they should only be pusing it to owners of older non-FSI cars, and NOT our FSI motors.




Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: So she's in with the Stealer...
« Reply #36 on: 10 April 2009, 09:49 »
Well i spoke to the dealer service manager at Drift Bridge today who credit to him actually did call me on the back of my email i sent to them. We had a discussion about the oil and he did agree that they were notified to use longlife but only in cars purchased 2008 onwards,

The stealer has got it all confused!  :rolleyes:

The "2008" refers to brake fluid only.  For all model year 2008 cars and newer, you must only use brake fluid approved by Volkswagen to VW 501.14, and if you don't, you will void the warranty.  For earlier cars, it is still permitted to use any DOT 4 brake fluid, though if you have ABS or ESP, you should still be using an "ESP-specific" brake fluid, rather than any old generic DOT 4.

For the engine oils, the instruction from VW Germany was that for ALL "LongLife-enabled" cars, so basically virtually everything made from 2001 - then from the start of the 2009 calendar year, they should ALL be filled with 504.00/507.00 oil (ie, genuine VW LongLife 3 oil) - even if they are on T&D servicing.

Isn't it any wonder why main stealers get such a bad reputation, when they can NOT even get some fundamental, but crucial facts correct!  :shocked:

i asked if the engine was different now and he said there had been some changes but i wasnt too convinced.

Nope, he his talking tosh.  The first of the Mk5 GTI engines are in all intents and purposes identical to say a 2008 GTI.  Of course, all engines (along with other components) might be subjected to minor revisions in parts, as models progress through the years - but the basic and fundamental specifications are identical.  :smug:

Anyway to cut a long story short he agreed to change the oil to longlife on Tuesday next week so happy days! and even better it is at no cost (thank god as i already spent 950 on it)

Well that is good news - or am I just being cynical by suggesting the stealer has a 'guilty consience' ?  :undecided:

I'm happy with that result, one last question though, is it essential i get the oil filter changed or will that be fine given it will have had the sh!te oil in it less than a week?

I would still ask for the filter to be changed, as it actually holds about a third of a litre.  If they refuse, then ask them to ensure that the filter housing is also drained.  (they have a drain valve on the bottom end of the oil filter housing, and the stealers should have a specific VW special tool - ask them if they have a "T40057"  :wink:)

Cheers for the advice on this TT, seems i got a reasonalbe outcome in the end,

Your welcome.  Always good to see a positive outcome.
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: So she's in with the Stealer...
« Reply #37 on: 10 April 2009, 09:55 »
So i checked my rear sprayer today and it does indeed squirt straight at the lamp, how do you adjust it, do you just use some grips and move it that way or is there a proper method?

Rather than adjusting the little silver 'eyeball' jet, you need to remove the large-ish pastic cap covering the end of the wiper spindle and washer jet holder.  When you look end-on at the spindle, you are actually looking at the washer jet holder, and it will be 'D' shaped, with the flat of the D at the lowest part.  Gently and very lightly use a pair of pliers, and just twist this end section clockwise, so that the squirter aims in the 2 o'clock position.  Don't forget to turn off the rear wiper between adjustments, because with the 'delay' in the wiper operation, it will be sods law, that when you next try to adjust the jet a touch more, the feckin wiper will suddenly start again, making you jump away!
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
-----
'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo