Author Topic: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series  (Read 29429 times)

Offline thai-wronghorse

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Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
« Reply #70 on: 06 March 2014, 13:53 »
Suspension set up, tyres, weight, different driver?

Offline Poached

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Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
« Reply #71 on: 06 March 2014, 18:11 »
Check this out its in German but you get the idea, the golf r is the best https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAtsh40JqGI&feature=youtube_gdata_player




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I'm not 100% sure, but I think he's saying the DTM driver rates them as follows:- (on track)

1) Golf R
2) M135
3) S3

Well thats strange, is there really going to be any difference at all between the S3 and R, its just badges and shells after all. Maybe they had different tyres on

Journos seem to suggest the 6R was more engaging than the 8P S3 but you wouldn't expect much difference.

Offline 2014GTi

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Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
« Reply #72 on: 06 March 2014, 23:16 »
I think it's a case of Volkswagen restricting supply to the press. Their press launch was allowing the press to drive on snow/ice. This would easily hide any handling issues like understeering which is usually exhibited by Haldex based systems.

I don't get it, why use a system with known issues?
it's just they way most Haldex systems work, they are getting better but Haldex is still only a FWD system which can divert to the rear if required, not a true AWD system.
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Offline corgi

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Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
« Reply #73 on: 07 March 2014, 17:09 »
it's just they way most Haldex systems work, they are getting better but Haldex is still only a FWD system which can divert to the rear if required, not a true AWD system.

Some of that is even true...

On the face of it, Haldex should be a good system. 4-wheel drive on demand... and the Haldex company will tell you that it is faster than a permanent four wheel drive system at shunting the power around, it allows for better weight distribution (ever driven a proper quattro equipped Audi, they tend to be very ponderous and nose heavy because the engine sits ahead of the front wheels), it is capable of shunting up to 100% of the power rearwards - As I understand it, there is no reason why a Haldex system could not be set up to be 30:70 F:R variable between 10:90 and 50:50 depending on conditions...

Now, VAG does not like the idea of rear wheel drive cars. Remember, in the 70s Audi commissioned Porsche to design them a coupe... the resulting car was rejected, not because it was bad but only because it was rear wheel drive... that car became the 924/944/968 family and Audi came up with the first Audi Coupe.

So VAG does not like rear drive cars and as a result sets up all of it Haldex equipped cars with quite a heavy front bias (partly to reduce driveline losses - there is normally no drive to the rear) and design them for safe understeer through this and suspension setup. This is not the fault of the Haldex system but trait built into VAG cars for perceived safety... Over the years they have improved the balance but the last I drove - Audi TTS - whilst admittedly well built, fast and sure footed was still numb with understeer at the (high) limit...
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Offline 2014GTi

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Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
« Reply #74 on: 07 March 2014, 17:17 »
So... like I've mentioned on other threads, if you want real corner fun and grip with zero understeer, get a GTI PP.
The Golf R will probably understeer and XDS+ will heat the brakes up and wear them down  :whistle:
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Offline corgi

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Re: GTI vs 135i on Top Gear - New Series
« Reply #75 on: 08 March 2014, 19:24 »
So... like I've mentioned on other threads, if you want real corner fun and grip with zero understeer, get a GTI PP.
The Golf R will probably understeer and XDS+ will heat the brakes up and wear them down  :whistle:

No... Get a car with properly adjustable suspension and have it set up properly...

In the end a Golf, PP or no will under steer at the limit...

If corner fun is what you're after... Get something light, well balanced and rear wheel drive... A Caterham, perhaps...
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