going round in circles, help please!!

[gti newbie]

Have a 1.8 8v K-Jet

Problem with it not starting, any help be appreciated...here goes...

Fuel to the injectors is fine and cone shaped spray, Spark at the plugs ok, no visable air leaks.

Engine turns over fine but just no start.

Set distributer position so pump primes, try to start engine, turns over fine but wont start. After a couple of times trying the pump will not prime when ignition is turned on !!!
You then have to move the distributer body a little to get the pump to prime on ignition

Have tested the Hall sender by turning the engine by hand and we get voltage alternating between 0-11v, also when you turn the engine by hand you hear the pump prime on one stroke then again in different position. (is this correct?)

Any pointers or help appreciated as going round in circles and a different perspective is always useful,


thanks 

[X4MGS]

Just a guess but have you checked the fireing order is correct on the HT leads?

[warnesey333]

My fuel pump will prime (pump a little bit and then stop) on ignition, and then keep pumping when you are turning the car over.

[raferackstraw]

another thing to check is the ignition switch on the steering column, had this on a mk1 gti, the engine turned over, but would not fire had good fuel, spark ok. you had to pull key downwards while turning for it to start. new ignition switch and everything ok

[Ben Lessani]

From what you have said, the below won't be masses of use, as you've tested most of it.

If you have fuel and spark - then your cam/dizzy timing must be out. Best to reset everything to TDC and start again.

spark or fuel



this is just for a little guidance with those getting stuck at - my car doesn't start!

check for spark

1) remove fuel pump relay.
2) remove king lead - place near head and check for regular spark. if the king lead sparks evenly, go to 3, if not, go to 4.
3) re-connect the lead and remove a lead from cyl 1 and check for interval spark, if even, go to 5, if not, go to 6.
4) turn the ignition on, then off, there should be a single solitary spark, if there is, go to 7, if not, go to 8.
5) repeat step 3 with the next cylinder.
6) this is either a ht lead, rotor or distributor cap fault.
7) this is either a hall sender or wiring to coil fault.
8 ) this is either a coil pack, hall sender or wiring to coil fault.

coil pack, hall sender or wiring to coil fault
testing the hall sender requires pulling back the rubber boot on the wiring (ensuring it stays connected), connecting a voltmeter to the middle pin and the other end to ground. put the car in 5th gear and rock the car back and forth (around 1-2m) and watch for fluctuation on the voltmeter. if it doesn't change, then replace the hall sender/distributor.
testing the wiring/coil pack is using your voltmeter and common sense (wiggle wires, check for continuity etc.)

ht lead, rotor or distributor cap fault
to test the leads, swap the faulty lead with a known working lead and test again.
to check the distributor cap/rotor, remove and inspect for signs of arc'ing, ensure contacts are clean with plenty of material.

sometimes just replacing parts is the easiest way to test unknown parts (but not necessarily the cheapest).

checking for fuel

1) after testing the spark first, refit the fuel pump relay, crank the engine very briefly (or just flick the ign on/off) and release, you should hear the fuel pump(s) prime. this relies on all wires being connected to the coil pack - without the wiring connected, the fuel pump will not prime (on a k-jet). if it primes, go to 1a), if it doesn't prime, go to 3.
1a) Disconnect plug from main pump under car and repeat #1, you should hear the in-tank pump prime, if it does, go to 2, if not go to 6.
2) fuel flow needs to be tested.
3) remove the fuel relay and bridge the large pins with a suitably crimped piece of fused wire (rated 20a). if you hear the fuel pump running, go to 4, if not, go to 5.
4) your fuel relay is faulty.
5) replace the fuse for the fuel pump, then repeat step 1. if you have got here a second time, go to 6.
6) fuel pump(s) or wiring fault.

fuel flow needs to be tested
i can't be bothered writing fuel flow tests, check your haynes.

fuel pump(s) or wiring fault
you need to use a battery back and suitable wiring to connectors on the fuel pumps themselves to ensure they run. be extremely careful - any spark could start a fire. use your brain, be careful and figure this one out for yourself.

[rubjonny]

dont mess about moving dizzy so pump primes, that isnt getting you anywhere. move the cam and crank to to TDC, and rotate dizzy/arm till the rotor arm lines up with the thin notch scribed into the edge of the dizzy housing (not the big notch the dizzy cap locks into)

the pumps may or may not prime on first turn of the key, this depending on the fuel pump relay fitted. the important thing is the pump runs when the car is cranking over. if it doesn't, this suggests there is no rev counter signal getting to the fusebox. probably not the relay itself as it does prime when you were fecking about with the dizzy.

[gti newbie]

dont mess about moving dizzy so pump primes, that isnt getting you anywhere. move the cam and crank to to TDC, and rotate dizzy/arm till the rotor arm lines up with the thin notch scribed into the edge of the dizzy housing (not the big notch the dizzy cap locks into)

the pumps may or may not prime on first turn of the key, this depending on the fuel pump relay fitted. the important thing is the pump runs when the car is cranking over. if it doesn't, this suggests there is no rev counter signal getting to the fusebox. probably not the relay itself as it does prime when you were fecking about with the dizzy.

We have now got everthing to TDC and the car started.Turned it off and it would not restart.The fuel pump is not priming when you turn the key on or when it is cranking over.
If you move the distributor body it will prime again but this will then knock the timming out.
How can we check the rev counter signal to the fuseboard.
Any help would be very much appreciated.
Thank you for all the earlier replies

[Ben Lessani]

dont mess about moving dizzy so pump primes, that isnt getting you anywhere. move the cam and crank to to TDC, and rotate dizzy/arm till the rotor arm lines up with the thin notch scribed into the edge of the dizzy housing (not the big notch the dizzy cap locks into)

the pumps may or may not prime on first turn of the key, this depending on the fuel pump relay fitted. the important thing is the pump runs when the car is cranking over. if it doesn't, this suggests there is no rev counter signal getting to the fusebox. probably not the relay itself as it does prime when you were fecking about with the dizzy.

We have now got everthing to TDC and the car started.Turned it off and it would not restart.The fuel pump is not priming when you turn the key on or when it is cranking over.
If you move the distributor body it will prime again but this will then knock the timming out.
How can we check the rev counter signal to the fuseboard.
Any help would be very much appreciated.
Thank you for all the earlier replies

Eeesh, stop moving the dizzy, its not achieving anything other than messing up your timing. The fuel pump doesn't always prime when you turn the IGN - its been said twice before now.

Just go through the points I put on my first post, as your problem could be faulty wiring, faulty hall sender, faulty coil, faulty relay or faulty fuel pump(s). Your method of moving the dizzy to narrow down the issue isn't really helping.

If I was to pick a fault, it sounds awfully like what just happened to me and a new hall sender sorted it.

[clipperjay]

Stick the spark plug on the head and see if you have a decent spark on all plugs first then work your way upto the king lead and coil! Sounds electrical to me?